Why ARMA Engine?

[Irenicus (DayZ) 289]

The clunkiness, the lag for changing guns etc etc, zombies running through walls, the hand to hand combat, these are all things that have been there from the get go in ARMA.

Shit, even ARMA 3 ain't that great.

It just seems this game is severely limited by the engine.

 

Arma 3 aint that great? Maybe you just need a new PC. Arma 3 is excellent.

[gamer222 86]

I don't see any engine besides RV to cover this game they are all cartoonish....

[Khad (DayZ) 293]

I bet Quake, Cry, Source, Gamebryo and all the others were as cluncky in their alphas as DayZ is atm. 

 

The problem right now is mouse acceleration and the quickbar-feedback. As like the damage feedback due to lack of ragdolls. 

I don't think, that these are un-fix-able issues. 

[Jimbo_au 18]

Honestly, what was the reasoning behind choosing to base this game off the ARMA engine?

I know that's where it began from the mod, but for the standalone, I thought it would have been a much better idea to start fresh? Rather then trying to work from something that seems so broken to begin with...

I mean, you can't polish a turd...

 

 

Seems broken? hate to be that guy but its in alpha. Secondly this game is great for being in alpha I've seen games ship with this many bugs even more **cough**bf4**cough**

 

If you think this engine is sub par then you good sir need to look again.

 

honestly I think a ban is in order no joke, I mean who are you too call there work shit, some self entitled asshat you must be.

Edited January 21, 2014 by Jimbo_au

[doctorbadsign 645]

The most obvious answer is that it would have taken much more work to create an engine that can do what the RV engine does from scratch. We would still be awaiting the Standalone most probably. 

 

Secondly, Rocket created the mod in Arma 2 which uses the RV engine and required the purchase of that game in order to play it. Rocket subsequently made a load of money for BI with his mod, meaning they were the go to people when he wanted to talk about making a Standalone game. I doubt that they would have been interested if he'd have said; "oh by the way I'm not going to use your engine this time".

 

There are lots of other reasons. As I said in a previous topic on a similar subject, despite its weird performance, the RV engine is great for DayZ. Its clunkiness adds to the tension of the game, not being able to open a gate in time or climb up that ladder. It's erratic and sometimes frustrating, but I love those tense moments when you have a load of zombies after you and you can't seem to get the icon to appear that will allow you to climb onto the roof. Being able to do it every time without fail would detract from things in my opinion. A slick engine wouldn't be as fun or unpredictable,

 

 

[byrgesen 1340]

You also need to understand that the version of the RV engine you see in DayZ is FAR from the RV engine you see in the Arma games mate.
Its been rewritten, to fit a "mmo-architecture", so the clients cannot control anything anymore, basicly thats why we had to wait for the Alpha, until now :)
It has its problems atm, but its also a brand new branch of an old, tested and tryed, engine tbh, so let them find they're way.

They need to do some things with the engine now, thats never been done before, its "pionering" at its finest really.
What Dean and BI are trying to do with DayZ has never been done before.
An open world MMO-survival game, with tons of sandbox features and no restrictions pretty much, i would like to see anything that comes close to this and can look and function as good as DayZ does, in this extremly early state.
Sure we got games that look similar, but ive yet to see a game that has the same level of debth as DayZ, in such an early Alpha, because the game isnt actually a game yet, its just a giant stress test of the new architecture, they spend so much time working on.

Most of what has been done the past 6-12 months, are "under the hood" and not something you can see as a costumer really, but it is what will make the foundation of DayZ very strong.
Give them some months to get every little bit of the core engine in place, and im quite sure you will see the full potential of the RV engine, in this aspect.

And honestly, the RV engine is amazing, dating all the way back to the first Operation Flashpoint (2001). Its old and you can see it from time to time, but its been upgraded and worked on for so many years and its the ONLY engine in the world, that can do what it does, in term of simulations and calculations, not to mention the entire scripting side of the engine aswell. (Which will be shutdown for DayZ, but still)

BI are trying to turn the RV engine into something it has never been before and theya re actually doing one hell of a job, DayZ is running SO MUCH BETTER then Arma 2 or Arma 3 ever did a month into the alpha development tbh.

Edited January 21, 2014 by Byrgesen

[LMKa 13]

God, this is so funny when it is sad "MMO" "MMO". There is nothing MMO in this game and it's engine is nothing like MMO. MMO means MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE and normally MMO handls about 2000 to 4000 players. This RV junk barely handles 40 players and due to the fact that they have 1 PC running zombie spawns and loot spawns now this game is so EMPTY. They removed everything from the game, even DayZ mod looks better now.

 

I also bought Radeon R9 290 specifically for this game and you know how many fps do I get on Novoselki and new Cherno? 25! TWENTY FIVE FRAMES PER SECOND I get with the top Radeon R9 290 card with a i7 4770k overclocked to 4.4 Ghz and an SSD installation.

 

There is nothing could be done to fix this game. Even if someone launches it in 5 years hardware it will still work the same way.

 

Also, Cryengine which was already mentioned here could do all this stuff - big areas, lot's of trees and vegetation, object spawns and it also already includes physics and network code which does not have to be redone. It can handle lots of players on the same server due to the proper utilisation of CPU because if Cryengine sees that there are CPU cores which could be used it uses them. When RV sees that there are CPU cores could be used it ignores them.

 

Bohemia should wake up - we have 16 to 32 cores processors here and PC hardware stagnating with the per core performance. There is no way you can optimize something that bad. IT has to be redone from scratch or on a good engine basis which ACTUALLY USES PC RESOURCES AND NOT IGNORES THEM.

Edited January 21, 2014 by LMKa

[Jimbo_au 18]

God, this is so funny when it is sad "MMO" "MMO". There is nothing MMO in this game and it's engine is nothing like MMO. MMO means MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE and normally MMO handls about 2000 to 4000 players. This RV junk barely handles 40 players and due to the fact that they have 1 PC running zombie spawns and loot spawns now this game is so EMPTY. They removed everything from the game, even DayZ mod looks better now.

 

I also bought Radeon R9 290 specifically for this game and you know how many fps do I get on Novoselki and new Cherno? 25! TWENTY FIVE FRAMES PER SECOND I get with the top Radeon R9 290 card with a i7 4770k overclocked to 4.4 Ghz and an SSD installation.

 

There is nothing could be done to fix this game. Even if someone launches it in 5 years hardware it will still work the same way.

 

obvious troll is obvious.

[LMKa 13]

Part me? Do you want me to record the video including my hardware specs so you can see for yourself?

 

Don't you believe that it that bad that it gives you 25 fps in Cherno area?

 

Or you want me to give you theory course about MMO structure and what MMO means?

 

The thing that server spawns loot and records character details DOES NOT MAKE GAME AN MMO.

[byrgesen 1340]

God, this is so funny when it is sad "MMO" "MMO". There is nothing MMO in this game and it's engine is nothing like MMO. MMO means MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE and normally MMO handls about 2000 to 4000 players. This RV junk barely handles 40 players and due to the fact that they have 1 PC running zombie spawns and loot spawns now this game is so EMPTY. They removed everything from the game, even DayZ mod looks better now.

 

I also bought Radeon R9 290 specifically for this game and you know how many fps do I get on Novoselki and new Cherno? 25! TWENTY FIVE FRAMES PER SECOND I get with the top Radeon R9 290 card with a i7 4770k overclocked to 4.4 Ghz and an SSD installation.

 

There is nothing could be done to fix this game. Even if someone launches it in 5 years hardware it will still work the same way.

Ok......

It is an MMO, will show you why now mate:

 

 

Heres the definition of MMO from Wiki:

 

A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously

 

 

Thats exactly what DayZ does, and it DOES NOT have to be on the same server, so stop this please. We even have persistant, evolving worlds, like most MMO's out there atm.

We have one HIVE supporting over a million players atm, and more are comming everyday.

Its an MMO........

 

 

EDIT:

Heres another line from the wiki, which fits spot on to DayZ and is the thing that makes up a MMO:

 

MMOs create a persistent universe where the game milieu continues regardless of interaction. Since these games emphasize multiplayer gameplay, many have only basic single-player aspects and the artificial intelligence on the server is primarily designed to support group play. As a result, players cannot "finish" MMOGs in the typical sense of single-player games.

It only states MOST MMO's have a large player base on each server, but it does not say its a requirement to be an MMO. + the devs are calling it a MMO aswell.

 

Ohh and BF and Planetside is not persistant evolving worlds either, hence why its not MMO at all.

 

 

Taken abit out of context, but it has the same meaning here.

The game is an MMO, it fits all the MMO "requirements", again, it is stated nowhere, what so ever, that you need thousands of players on the same server, for it to be a MMO.

The fact that you can jump to any server you want and play with anyone, of the +1.000.000 users, should tell you its an MMO.

The fact thats its a persistant evolving world, should tell you its an MMO.

The fact that BI are advertising it as an MMO, should also give you a small hint tbh.

[dallas 5195]

This might be a stupid question, but if you don't like the RV engine, what are you doing here?

[LMKa 13]

Are you blind or just pretending to be?

 

 

Heres the definition of MMO from Wiki:

 

A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously

 

IT has 40.. FORTY players with which you play on the same time. FORTY! IF this is now somehow in your brain considered an MMO, then Battlefiled 4 is also an MMO because it's servers can handle EVEN MORE players.

 

All MMO games are called MMO because they handle THOUSANDS of players on the same time on the same server. Here you can jump between servers and play with 39 people on a huge map with an empty world.

 

BI advertises it as an MMO because of no particular reason rather than marketing and an explanation for what they have been doing all this time and actually they've tried to fix what was already broken - RV engine.

 

Also to you smart examples - what do you mean by persistant evolving worlds again? The fact that servers get restarted every 3 hours so all of them are IN THE SAME CONDITION every 3 hours? So despite everything you did you will still have the same MAP as it was like it is IN BATTLEFIELD. IN MMO's you have guilds, like in Archeage where you can build something or destroy something and it WON'T disappear and WILL be there. In DayZ you just get the same map restarted every 3 hours so it's more like DOTA or Battlefield to me, when you get the same map every several hours.

 

Nothing MMO like here. Stop trying to find an explanation.

 

 

 

This might be a stupid question, but if you don't like the RV engine, what are you doing here?

 

I like the map - that's the only game which has eastern europe environments so even when I have DayZ Standalone I am still playing  Arma II DayZero and other mods because they are better at this point.

 

The fact that I like Chernarus goes well with the fact that this engine is probably worst in all gaming history.

Edited January 21, 2014 by LMKa

[tt_reaven 10]

Am I the only one who loves the engine? :(

And yeah I know of its problems... but I couldn't imagine playing DayZ on another engine...

[byrgesen 1340]

 

Also, Cryengine which was already mentioned here could do all this stuff - big areas, lot's of trees and vegetation, object spawns and it also already includes physics and network code which does not have to be redone. It can handle lots of players on the same server due to the proper utilisation of CPU because if Cryengine sees that there are CPU cores which could be used it uses them. When RV sees that there are CPU cores could be used it ignores them.

 

Read this entire thread and tell me again how Cryengine can handle 225 square km of map with tons of object, so "fine" lol, coz it simply cant.
This is what the devs of Cryengine says: "The only confirmed bug-free map size is 4096x4096. Use 4096x4096 as heightmap resolution and change the multiplier to two. That should be bug-free..."

http://www.crydev.net/viewtopic.php?f=321&t=87445

 

Are you blind or just pretending to be?

 

 

 

IT has 40.. FORTY players with which you play on the same time. FORTY! IF this is now somehow in your brain considered an MMO, then Battlefiled 4 is also an MMO because it's servers can handle EVEN MORE players.

 

All MMO games are called MMO because they handle THOUSANDS of players on the same time on the same server. Here you can jump between servers and play with 39 people on a huge map with an empty world.

 

BI advertises it as an MMO because of no particular reason rather than marketing and an explanation for what they have been doing all this time and actually they've tried to fix what was already broken - RV engine.

 

 

 

 

I like the map - that's the only game which has eastern europe environments so even when I have DayZ Standalone I am still playing  Arma II DayZero and other mods because they are better at this point.

 

The fact that I like Chernarus goes well with the fact that this engine is probably worst in all gaming history.

 

Again, show me where it states that is HAS to be thousands of people on the same server for it to be MMO? Because i simply have not seen that anywhere, it is not the case.
We have over a million players here and they can all play together, when ever they want, basicly that should be enough to classify it as an MMO lol.
We have a persistant evolving world, which keeps evolving when you log off.....

See where im going with this? MMO lol....

And dont even try to say BF is MMO, it has nothing like a persistant world and its a round based FPS lol. Nothing more.....

If the engine is "probably worst in all gaming history", do us all a favor and get your money back, because throwing "shit" like that is not gonna get you anywhere lol.
Grow up, try to argue like a intellegent person, and stop throwing crap towards the people who have spend years and years working on this engine.
If you dont like it, you are free to leave, or try to come with a better suggestion, which you obviously arent gonna do.

[DarkwaveDomina 1099]

I don't pretend to know if any other engine would be suitable for this game. I know this game runs like utter horse crap on my PC compared to much better looking (in some cases much older) games with huge maps, but I deal with it. I have resigned myself to the simple fact that this is the engine we have and I just hope it's optimised a lot as we transition through the phases of development.

 

If we're honest with ourselves, forget any rationalisation made by any member of staff or forum mod, if we're 100% honest we all know that it would simply never have been another engine. Even if a more suitable engine was available this engine was made in-house by Bohemia, for them to spend a small fortune licencing another engine would have essentially been calling their own engine crap.

Edited January 21, 2014 by Ulfhedjinn

[dallas 5195]

Sure DayZ isn't wow, but the hive setup, the character saves across multiple servers, pretty much is an MMO structure. Just think of the servers as instances and voilá, there's your MMO.

Sure DayZ isn't the most massive of massive MMO's, but plenty of other MMOs have offered small instances too. You don't have to have 90,000 players in Elektro at the same time to use the term MMO, to explain how characters are stored and interact with each other.

It's like saying ArmA isn't a simulation, because it has third person view. Every sim out there has fly by camera and external cameras too. Stop being so rigid and broaded your definitions a bit.

Edited January 21, 2014 by Dallas

[Judopunch 523]

Making one that actually worked properly would have been much more beneficial in the long run...

They did, its the arma engine, modified for DayZ. 

 

I dont understand what you are saying.

[DarkwaveDomina 1099]

Sure DayZ isn't wow, but the hive setup, the character saves across multiple servers, pretty much is an MMO structure. Just think of the servers as instances and voilá, there's your MMO.

 

By this loose definition COD and Battlefield are MMOs too. An MMO to me always meant "massive" numbers of players interacting together in the same space, 40 isn't massive to me and I just call this a multiplayer sandbox game. Different strokes and all that though.

Edited January 21, 2014 by Ulfhedjinn

[gamer222 86]

This game doesn't need more than 70 people on the map even if Rocket is aiming for 100 cuz it's too much....

[LMKa 13]

Again, show me where it states that is HAS to be thousands of people on the same server for it to be MMO? Because i simply have not seen that anywhere, it is not the case.
We have over a million players here and they can all play together, when ever they want, basicly that should be enough to classify it as an MMO lol.
We have a persistant evolving world, which keeps evolving when you log off.....

See where im going with this? MMO lol....

And dont even try to say BF is MMO, it has nothing like a persistant world and its a round based FPS lol. Nothing more.....

If the engine is "probably worst in all gaming history", do us all a favor and get your money back, because throwing "shit" like that is not gonna get you anywhere lol.
Grow up, try to argue like a intellegent person, and stop throwing crap towards the people who have spend years and years working on this engine.
If you dont like it, you are free to leave, or try to come with a better suggestion, which you obviously arent gonna do.

 

Don't you get that noone cares about your esoteric ways of pulling Dayz ears into the MMO sector.

MMO - is MASSIVELY, 40 is not massively. None of the game MULTIPLY the amount of people on different servers, otherwise Dota 2 and Counter Strike would be the biggest MMOS out there.

The fact that you so easily say "AH BATTLEFIELD IS NOT MMO DON"T BULLSHIT ME" ofc it's not and DAYZ NOT AS WELL.

It's NOT an MMO, it has 40 players.

 

When I log off there are map which gets resetted every 3 hours. Even ARMA II Dayz mod is more like an MMO because it has vehicles and tents which try to be there.

 

GOD even DAYZ ORIGINS is more MMO than DayZ Stanadlone - you can build houses in DayZ Origins, you have world that changes and saves it's state(not gets resetted every 3 hours), you have 70 to 80 people in DayZ Origins.

 

I can't get my money back. Steam does not allow me to. If I could I would have done this already and continued to play DayZ Origins or DayZero.

[dgeesio 1034]

So what engine do you suggest assuming it does what the Virtual Reality engine can do?

 

Map size, object count, view distance, and no loading screens. Oh, and an MMO.

 

Really, i'd like to know.

Avalanche engine.

[byrgesen 1340]

By this loose definition COD and Battlefield are MMOs too. An MMO to me always meant "massive" numbers of players interacting together in the same space, 40 isn't massive to me and I just call this a multiplayer sandbox game. Different strokes and all that though.

 

Not really, BF and COD does not have progression saves, like MMO's have. You "unlock" new weapons the more you play basicly.

COD and BF has nothing like an evolving world, its the same world over and over again, simple rounds based FPS, nothing more :)

 

And its not about what it means to you really, its the definition thats been established through out the years :)

Exactly like movie genres, music genres, etc.

[Monkfish (DayZ) 339]

They did, its the arma engine, modified for DayZ. 

 

I dont understand what you are saying.

Ignore Kiwi, he's already proved elsewhere that he's a troll with nothing intelligent to bring to the conversation.

 

Anyway, this thread amuses me. People bitching about how shit the engine is when they have zero clue what goes into making one. I'm pretty sure they'd be pissing and moaning if Rocket said in 2012 that they were making a standalone and then nothing was heard for three years whilst they built a new engine from scratch despite already having one that's perfect for purpose.

 

Honestly, it's like people don't think for more than 0.635 seconds before starting a topic to have a whinge about something.  :rolleyes:

[bummel313 12]

Once in a week this discussion comes up....

[byrgesen 1340]

Don't you get that noone cares about your esoteric ways of pulling Dayz ears into the MMO sector.

MMO - is MASSIVELY, 40 is not massively. None of the game MULTIPLY the amount of people on different servers, otherwise Dota 2 and Counter Strike would be the biggest MMOS out there.

The fact that you so easily say "AH BATTLEFIELD IS NOT MMO DON"T BULLSHIT ME" ofc it's not and DAYZ NOT AS WELL.

It's NOT an MMO, it has 40 players.

 

When I log off there are map which gets resetted every 3 hours. Even ARMA II Dayz mod is more like an MMO because it has vehicles and tents which try to be there.

 

GOD even DAYZ ORIGINS is more MMO than DayZ Stanadlone - you can build houses in DayZ Origins, you have world that changes and saves it's state(not gets resetted every 3 hours), you have 70 to 80 people in DayZ Origins.

 

I can't get my money back. Steam does not allow me to. If I could I would have done this already and continued to play DayZ Origins or DayZero.

 

You can get your money back lol, dont be naive.... Ive done it with several games....

And please do remember we have about 5% of the complete feature list in the game atm, hate to say this but, ITS VERY EARLY ALPHA :D

So the whole "the mods have tents, etc" crap you are pulling is pointless really, we will get more then the mods ever could have, thats why its becomming a stand alone game mate.

The end goal is to not have server restart, to make the worlds persistant, sure it isnt right now, but again this is not a game yet, its a stress test of the core architecture of the server-client setup they have rebuild, inside the RV engine.

 

And again, its not 40 people, its a million people playing together, can you show me a source for this "it has to be thousands on the same server to be MMO" argument please?

Coz ive never heard about that "rule" before :)

It fits more MMO requirements then any other genre out there atm, prove me wrong with valid sources please mate. Would love to appoligize if i am wrong, but i just dont see it.

Based on definitions of MMO's, DayZ fits right in there.