We NEED some way to identify heros and bandits.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

So your opinion on how the game should be played = Valid

Other people's opinions on how the game should be played = Invalid

Got it. Thanks for proving my point.

wrong again. My opinion is on how the game is. You on the other hand are forcing others to play the way you want. Edited January 16, 2014 by Caboose187

[gingatsu 67]

made already a suggestion but some people don't think its ok...

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/165464-some-proposal-for-the-game-a-new-point-of-sight-maybe/

 

in my opinion it is really nonsense what they say but whatever. You people go in and decide yourself after reading the suggestion.

Edited January 16, 2014 by gingatsu

[phoboss 224]

Certian playstyle like non-KoS?

 

But curently game favors KoS playstyle and this is fair?

I encourage you to read the second link in my signature. 

There is a HUGE difference between being a bandit and KoSing. People need to learn that difference. Bandits are real, and in real life you would never know who is a bandit and who isn't. KoS is not real (at least not to the degree it currently exists in the game). Thus it needs to be "addressed". There is no fixing it, because it's still a viable choice to play the game. It just shouldn't be that popular. 

 

Taliban in Afghanistan.  Notice most of the idiots don't get on the videos with their face exposed?  Most are full head wrap.

 

Same thing with gang members in most countries.  Most do their videos with bandannas covering their faces.

 

Same thing with bank robbers.  Ski masks.

Yeah because they could be identified by the authorities... I'd like to see you take a picture of me killing your buddy and then using that picture to hunt me down with the help of a news network and then send an angry mob after me. It's a zombie apocalypse, there are no authorities to be afraid of. It's like the wild west man! Sure they had bounty posters back then, and if you have a good idea to implement those as a game mechanic, I'm all ears.

Come to think of it, thats actually not a bad idea... If you're a bandit and you kill someone. And some other survivor witnesses that killing he can "draw" a bounty poster of you and put them up around chernarus. And if you don't wear a mask and someone who came across that poster, comes within 50m of you, he will get some sort of warning queue that you are the bandit that's being looked for!

Edited January 16, 2014 by phoboss

[frosti 2165]

There has to be a way to get yourself back into Hero status if you have to defend yourself from another Hero player.  Or if someone starts out with a few hero kills, but really wants to play hero.  The key is to keep the humanity gain small for bandit kills, and no humanity change for blood bagging, zombie killing, etc.

 

You can make the humanity system relatively unexploitable by issuing different points for kills:

Kill a hero = -1000 humanity

Kill a civ = -500 humanity

Kill a bandit = +250 humanity

* No humanity gain or loss from any other actions.  No healing points, zombie killing points, etc, etc.  Just strictly based on player kills.  You'd have to kill 4 bandits for every hero killed if you wanted to stay positive.

* Maybe add a double penalty for killing 2 heros or civs in a row.  That would definitely fix people farming humanity, just so they could KOS later.

 

 

 

So your opinion on how the game should be played = Valid

Other people's opinions on how the game should be played = Invalid

 

Got it.  Thanks for proving my point.

 

Major flaw of mod humanity system was that there were "heroes" with farmed humanity that KoSed and thus you could not really trust a "hero"

 

And there were "survivors" who balanced out KoSing many, many people (by killing bandits and survivors) and thus never got bandit skin as they should have.

 

New humanity system, whatever it would be, has to get those issues covered.

[1S1K-Airborne 148]

 

I encourage you to read the second link in my signature. 

There is a HUGE difference between being a bandit and KoSing. People need to learn that difference. Bandits are real, and in real life you would never know who is a bandit and who isn't. KoS is not real (at least not to the degree it currently exists in the game). Thus it needs to be "addressed". There is no fixing it, because it's still a viable choice to play the game. It just shouldn't be that popular. 

 

Yeah because they could be identified by the authorities... I'd like to see you take a picture of me killing your buddy and then using that picture to hunt me down with the help of a news network and then send an angry mob after me.

 

 

So you want 100% realism in a game that doesn't have 100% realism because it would be unplayable.  

 

In real life I am a trained military marksman.  I can break down, clean, and reassemble a M4 rifle while I'm hung upside down in a pitch black room.  If you're a civilian that never touched a gun, I would be a LOT more accurate than you.  Not to mention I'd have the ability to clear weapon jams, maintain weapons, properly add and use accessories on rifles, etc.  But in the mod we are all EQUAL accuracy to facilitate gameplay.

 

Loot wouldn't magically respawn everywhere every 2-4 hours.   But it DOES to facilitate gameplay.

 

If you went to Cherno or Electro there would be 1 million zombies.  Not even possible to loot let alone live in there.  But you CAN to facilitate gameplay.

 

So you're for realism when it makes your point, but against it when it's inconvenient or goes against your point.

 

Congrats!  Good point!

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

At a bare minimum this should be an easily implemented mod for future private servers.  We're paying for it, it should be our choice.

 

By that rationale, I demand the ability to make all survivors look like nude Scarlett Johansson's in high heels. "I'm paying for it, it should be my choice."  :rolleyes: 

 

Some of us would like to be Heros.  But we can't do it with the way the game currently is, unless you like being a bullet / axe sponge.

 

Being a Hero is hard and dangerous stuff. That's why it's called being a Hero and not just "being some dude." If it weren't dangerous, why should we consider you a "Hero?" What are you doing that's Heroic if not risking your life? Giving me beans? Big fucking deal. I can get beans in that house over there. The entire concept of being a Hero is that you're willing to take risks that others aren't. If you remove the risk, you're not a Hero anymore.

 

Something to identify heros and bandits "at distance" is needed to enable 2 to happen.  Something visible if you can actually SEE the person.  It could be an armband, face wrap, mask, whatever.  Don't care what it is.

 

You should be able to identify and remember players that you see, but it should be entirely up to you to figure out whether or not they're good guys or bad guys. Use your powers of observation and judgment. Don't expect the developers to ride in on their magical unicorns waving a wand and putting a dunce cap on all the naughty people so you can feel safe and comfortable and only ever interact with people who are going to high five you and massage your ballsack. It's just not going to happen. 

 

Check out these threads for authentic means to identify players (without magically knowing whether they're good or bad):

Player Identification and Classification System

Squad Identification

 

Honestly I think all the hate (and I'm sure troll posts below) from the KOS guys is because they are scared to death

 

Wow. Really mate? That's a seriously bold statement coming from someone who is literally demanding that dangerous players be flagged so he doesn't have to go near them. Killers are the ones who are "scared to death," though. Right? 

 

Right?

 

*crickets chirp*

*in the distance, a dog barks*

 

If you're not scared, why hate on the idea?

 

If you're not scared, why do I have to wear a fucking red arm band so you can run and hide form me? Holy shit dude. Listen to yourself.

 

I want to play as a Hero without playing a Hero Bullet / Axe sponge.

 

Tough shit, Francis. Take off your diaper, dab a little powder on the damp spots, put on your big boy pants and get out there and start being a real fucking Hero if that's what you want.

Edited January 16, 2014 by ZedsDeadBaby

[1S1K-Airborne 148]

Major flaw of mod humanity system was that there were "heroes" with farmed humanity that KoSed and thus you could not really trust a "hero"

 

And there were "survivors" who balanced out KoSing many, many people (by killing bandits and survivors) and thus never got bandit skin as they should have.

 

New humanity system, whatever it would be, has to get those issues covered.

 

The -1000 / -500 / +250 system would take care of it.  

 

If you KOS'd everyone, you'd always be negative because of the -1000 hits for every hero you took down.

 

It would take a LONG time to farm +250 for hero kills just so you could KOS everyone.  If there was a double penalty for killing 2 heros in a row, it would be -1000 for the first hero kill and -2000 for the second one.  KOS heros would rapidly drop back to KOS bandits at -2000 per kill (which would take 8 hero kills to break even at +250).

 

You could even make it +100 for killing a bandit, but that would be really hard to make up for a single hero kill by having to kill 10 bandits for +1000.

[phoboss 224]

So you want 100% realism in a game that doesn't have 100% realism because it would be unplayable.  

 

In real life I am a trained military marksman.  I can break down, clean, and reassemble a M4 rifle while I'm hung upside down in a pitch black room.  If you're a civilian that never touched a gun, I would be a LOT more accurate than you.  Not to mention I'd have the ability to clear weapon jams, maintain weapons, properly add and use accessories on rifles, etc.  But in the mod we are all EQUAL accuracy to facilitate gameplay.

 

Loot wouldn't magically respawn everywhere every 2-4 hours.   But it DOES to facilitate gameplay.

 

If you went to Cherno or Electro there would be 1 million zombies.  Not even possible to loot let alone live in there.  But you CAN to facilitate gameplay.

 

So you're for realism when it makes your point, but against it when it's inconvenient or goes against your point.

 

Congrats!  Good point!

hey sorry I edited my post with an idea you just gave me.

 

To answer your question, no I'm not for realism as long as it is convenient. I do believe they should implement something like skill and knowledge into the game (weapon handling to pick up your example). Rocket thinks otherwise and I have accepted that.

But you're talking about loot respawning to facilitate gameplay. If I'm a bandit, explain to me how a certain skin or visual queue, showing everyone around me, what type of player I am, facilitates MY gameplay. 

Loot respawn for everyone.

And again, I'd really really appreciate if you also took the time to read my thread about this (second one in my sig). You people keep mixing KoS and banditry, and they are not the same. 

Edited January 16, 2014 by phoboss

[libertine 351]

I just thought of a way to identify a bandit/hero. Stalk them, wait for them to encounter another player. Observe the results and formulate judgement based upon that. 

 

Perhaps it is just a case of people being too hasty and impatient when approaching players?

:facepalm:  You've JUST thought of that now? Im guessing your new (OR YOUR A BANDIT!).Ugh, many people have been playing this way since the mod came out more than a year ago. Please try it yourself, its tedious as all hell. Sit up above a military installation from a safe distance, the quickest place to find a player, and wait...... then watch him while hes there and see if he gets into a battle with someone else. 99 times out of a 100 you'll not actually see what both sides did. Even if you can tell who shot first, how do you know the other guy wasn't raising his weapon to shoot at the other player just reacted? This is the problem, you very rarely see both sides of the fight and its rarely clear who's at fault. Not ony that but its become much harder to find players than in the mod because zombies don't spawn all around players now.  With zombies not indicating player presence, people are looking over their shoulders and being more cautious in general, making it more difficult and tedious to follow people.  Building interiors are making it more difficult to find people. I've seen people go into a house in Zelenogorsk and not seen them again for 15 minutes until they came out the other side. In the mod, one glance at Zelenogorsk would have revealed their presence because of the zombies spawning. Without bandit identification, people who play realistically and don't shoot over a mf'ing can of beans are faced with tedium. Why don't you bandits man up and get KOS'ed like you KOS other people.

 

Talk to people ingame or avoid them all together, but please dont ever put any kind of "flag" or "sign" on players.

Avoiding players all together is what players like myself have done a lot already, for THEIR safety and mine, THATS realistic, but sorry, avoiding player gets boring FAST!

 

Don't use the video game argument in a simulation game.

Its not a simulation game when the players are key to making it realistic and they shoot everything that moves. Its like military personnel using Bi's VBS during actual training and all shooting everything that moves, civilians and all for the fun of it. You can't expect people to care about someone's avatar like they would an actual person.

 

Ah well, ill just bandage that hole in my face and be on my way then...

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

Please try it yourself, its tedious as all hell.

 

Oh, well. It's a little difficult? In that case the designers should definitely swoop in and slap a Santa Hat on all the bad guys because we would hate for you to have to actually do some work. As we all know, the design intent of DayZ is to make things "easy and comforting and never tedious at all." I read that somewhere. I think. Or maybe it was nowhere, ever. I forget.

 

Why don't you bandits man up and get KOS'ed like you KOS other people.

 

What is that even supposed to mean? How is that not currently the case? Is there something in the game that's currently preventing bandits from being shot?

[1S1K-Airborne 148]

 

By that rationale, I demand the ability to make all survivors look like nude Scarlett Johansson's in high heels. "I'm paying for it, it should be my choice."  :rolleyes: 

 

Yep, fine with me.  Rust already does that.  I'd rather see Scarlett.

 

Being a Hero is hard and dangerous stuff. That's why it's called being a Hero and not just "being some dude." If it weren't dangerous, why should we consider you a "Hero?" What are you doing that's Heroic if not risking your life? Giving me beans? Big fucking deal. I can get beans in that house over there. The entire concept of being a Hero is that you're willing to take risks that others aren't. If you remove the risk, you're not a Hero anymore.

 

Yes, but being a hero now = bullet sponge.  Not fun to play that way.

 

 

You should be able to identify and remember players that you see, but it should be entirely up to you to figure out whether or not they're good guys or bad guys. Use your powers of observation and judgment. Don't expect the developers to ride in on their magical unicorns waving a wand and putting a dunce cap on all the naughty people so you can feel safe and comfortable and only ever interact with people who are going to high five you and massage your ballsack. It's just not going to happen. 

 

Check out these threads for authentic means to identify players (without magically knowing whether they're good or bad):

Player Identification and Classification System   <-------won't work, easily exploitable by every 12 year old kiddie out there just marking everyone they see as "bandit"

Squad Identification  <------------good idea but would take a LOT of coding.  It would be much simpler just to have a WarZ style chevron over the head of all your squad mates

 

 

 

If you're not scared, why do I have to wear a fucking red arm band so you can run and hide form me? Holy shit dude. Listen to yourself.

 

It doesn't have to be red.  Why don't we make bandit GREEN and hero RED.  I couldn't care less.  I don't care if it's small if it makes me slightly more visible.

 

And if I saw that GREEN armband, I wouldn't be running, I would be HUNTING.  So you can quit with the kiddie accusations.

 

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

 

<-------won't work, easily exploitable by every 12 year old kiddie out there just marking everyone they see as "bandit"

 

 

What? What would that accomplish? How is that an exploit? You obviously didn't read the post at all. You are flagging people for yourself not for other people. It doesn't matter what 12-year-old kiddies do. You have to make your own observations and your own marks. Marking everyone as a bandit accomplishes nothing whatsoever.

 

 

 

<------------good idea but would take a LOT of coding.  It would be much simpler just to have a WarZ style chevron over the head of all your squad mates

 

Additional clothing options would most certainly not require a lot of coding. Nor would facepaint (it's just new skin texture, mostly artwork). Patches and badges already exist in ARMA. Nothing in that thread requires much coding.

 

 

 

And if I saw that GREEN armband, I wouldn't be running, I would be HUNTING.  So you can quit with the kiddie accusations.

 

Yeah. "Hunting" after the developers are nice enough to mark your targets for you so you don't actually have to do any work. Like "Gee, deer hunting is hard work Game Commissioner. Why don't you just go spray paint all the deer florescent pink so I can see them from far away and I don't have to actually do any work on my own? That would be super keen. Thanks."

 

 

 

Yes, but being a hero now = bullet sponge.  Not fun to play that way.

 

Everyone is a bullet sponge right now. That's the only thing to do in the game. There are a half dozen zombies and zero other features implemented. Talking about how the game plays now is like taking a car for a test drive before it has any tires and then bitching to the dealership that it was a bumpy ride.

Edited January 16, 2014 by ZedsDeadBaby

[phoboss 224]

 

I like your style ! :D

 

But in all seriousness my idea about wanted posters and yours about flagging people for yourself, this could actually be some sort of hero/bandit system, implemented by the players themselves. I'll make a thread about, lets see how it goes :D

[libertine 351]

If you're not scared, why do I have to wear a fucking red arm band so you can run and hide form me? Holy shit dude. Listen to yourself.

Were not going to hide from you, the point is to kill you. We need some action, that is the point, it boring playing realistically and avoiding combat.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Thane

[ramatakahn 38]

We NEED some way to identify heros and bandits.  

 

At a bare minimum this should be an easily implemented mod for future private servers.  We're paying for it, it should be our choice.

You don't like it, don't play on my server.....lol

 

1.  Some of you like to be a KOS bandit.  Got it.

 

2.  Some of us would like to be Heros.  But we can't do it with the way the game currently is, unless you like being a bullet / axe sponge.

 

Something to identify heros and bandits "at distance" is needed to enable 2 to happen.  Something visible if you can actually SEE the person.  It could be an armband, face wrap, mask, whatever.  Don't care what it is.

 

Distances:

Just your eyes = maybe see it at 50-100 meters

Short range scope = see it at 100-200 meters

Long range scope = see it at 200-400 meters

 

I really LOVE that Rocket's videos all have a bunch of friendly players that he meets in a private locked server.....lol  I would love it even more if he went into a full public server and ran around Electro or Cherno for a couple of hours.  It would be a shit video and not a good advertisement for the game, because he'd get KOS'd over and over and over.  I would love to see Rocket getting chased for 20-30 minutes by some 12 year old with an axe.

 

Having something visual that would tell the difference between Hero and Bandit would NOT ruin your gameplay.  You can STILL KOS.  It will NOT prevent KOS style gameplay or ruin the game.  However it would ENABLE people to be Heros if they wanted to.  YOU get to play as a KOS bandit, but we can't play as a Hero unless we want to eat bullets or an axe in 90% of player interactions.

 

Honestly I think all the hate (and I'm sure troll posts below) from the KOS guys is because they are scared to death of groups of Heros leaving other Heros alone, and hunting them down.

 

If you're not scared, why hate on the idea?  Can't up your game to deal with a few Heros?

 

-------------------------

 

Followup Post:

 

Yep, arguing realism doesn't work.  If this was real, you wouldn't have to eat every 3 minutes to survive, or die from not eating for 1 hour.  Loot wouldn't respawn magically at a certain time.  The cities like Cherno and Electro would be hellholes full of millions of zombies you wouldn't even go near.  Not everyone is trained on weapons, and those that weren't "should" have bad accuracy.

 

This game is not real, while they want to strive for realistic gameplay, some things need to happen to facilitate gameplay (respawning loot, everyone having equal accuracy while shooting, etc).

 

You can make the humanity system relatively unexploitable by issuing different points for kills:

Kill a hero = -1000 humanity

Kill a civ = -500 humanity

Kill a bandit = +250 humanity

* No humanity gain or loss from any other actions.  No healing points, zombie killing points, etc, etc.  Just strictly based on player kills.  You'd have to kill 4 bandits for every hero killed if you wanted to stay positive.

* Maybe add a double penalty for killing 2 heros or civs in a row.  That would definitely fix people farming humanity, just so they could KOS later.

 

Right now approaching another player is the easiest way to force the KOS issue.  Of every player I've ever approached, 90% of them have tried to kill me if they at least had a melee weapon.  So if you want to be a bullet / axe sponge, keep doing that.  I'd rather have a way to IDENTIFY that someone is a hero, so I don't necessarily have to shoot them.

 

I want to play as a Hero without playing a Hero Bullet / Axe sponge.

 

If we had some way to identify Heros, Civs, and Bandits, you could stop raging at the crap tons of KOS topics because 75% of them would stop overnight.

 

Otherwise you can keep saying NO NO NO NO NO to every possible solution and put up with a million more KOS topics in the forums.  Your choice.......lol

 

What part of ALPHA do you noobs not fucking understand???

[doctorbadsign 645]

:facepalm:  You've JUST thought of that now? Im guessing your new (OR YOUR A BANDIT!).Ugh, many people have been playing this way since the mod came out more than a year ago. 

 

Or perhaps I was being sarcastic when I said I just thought of it.

 

I was trying to make the obvious sound like a revelation in attempt to mock those who remain unaware of the obvious.

 

I'm not a bandit nor am I new to the game :)

[kohmelo 4]

 

In real life I am a trained military marksman.  I can break down, clean, and reassemble a M4 rifle while I'm hung upside down in a pitch black room.  If you're a civilian that never touched a gun, I would be a LOT more accurate than you.  Not to mention I'd have the ability to clear weapon jams, maintain weapons, properly add and use accessories on rifles, etc.  But in the mod we are all EQUAL accuracy to facilitate gameplay.

 

What i've seen is that at range of 300m and below untrained people can easily hit man sized stationary targets with assault rifles.

 

about the military training those guys would have only (expert) understanding  of weapons that they have handled. As for example Mosin-Nagants bolt is really not that simple part to maintain when it has malfunction. Assemble it wrong and the bolt jumps right into your eye when you shoot it. Simple pre1900 tech there.

 

[Mdogg2005 447]

People need to stop with the retarded suggestions.  Seriously?  Killing X of number of bandits = hero?  No.  Heroes aren't supposed to be murderers.  I'm sorry but most of you need to stop posting suggestions because they're terrible.

 

I just hope the devs have enough sense to realize good suggestions from the crap being spewed all over this thread.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Mdogg2005

[phoboss 224]

 

 

 

 

Here's the quick post I made. I hope you guys don't mind that I used your names. But wanted to give credit. 

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/165503-herobandit-system-made-by-the-players/

Edited January 16, 2014 by phoboss

[frosti 2165]

People need to stop with the retarded suggestions.  Seriously?  Killing X of number of bandits = hero?  No.  Heroes aren't supposed to be murderers.  I'm sorry but most of you need to stop posting suggestions because they're terrible.

 

I just hope the devs have enough sense to realize good suggestions from the crap being spewed all over this thread.

 

Ever heard about Paladins?

 

[libertine 351]

People need to stop with the retarded suggestions.  Seriously?  Killing X of number of bandits = hero?  No.  Heroes aren't supposed to be murderers.  I'm sorry but most of you need to stop posting suggestions because they're terrible.

 

I just hope the devs have enough sense to realize good suggestions from the crap being spewed all over this thread.

Its the retarded game play that is spurring the retarded suggestions...

[BL1P 252]

 

Oh, well. It's a little difficult? In that case the designers should definitely swoop in and slap a Santa Hat on all the bad guys because we would hate for you to have to actually do some work. As we all know, the design intent of DayZ is to make things "easy and comforting and never tedious at all." I read that somewhere. I think. Or maybe it was nowhere, ever. I forget.

 

 

Your missing the point its easy to be a bandit which is as you say not what this game is supposed to be about

[gamerer 65]

I liked the heart beat thingy in the mod back in the days, I guess it wouldn't be too hard to implement and gives people sort of a chance to hear who is a bandit and who isn't

[phoboss 224]

I liked the heart beat thingy in the mod back in the days, I guess it wouldn't be too hard to implement and gives people sort of a chance to hear who is a bandit and who isn't

If you're that close, it's usually to late anyway. ;)

[Bakercompany86 347]

Damn it NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

 

 

When I get shot in the face by a bandit it is MY FAULT.

 

If you don't like getting killed on sight, be stealthier.

 

if you want protection, get friends who are good shots.

 

To hell with the sanity/morality/any bandit identification ideas.