PSA: If you put "No KoS" in the title of your server, I'm going to favorite it and stop in every day to kill at least one person

[Zeet. 101]

It's not "your" server in the sense of a typical game. You're effectively paying money to have a server that you know won't go down suddenly. This was a lot more relevant back in the mod, since if you built a base and stored vehicles, those were local to the server. I know I had some heartbreak when a server went down permanently where we had worked hard to establish a base filled with loot and three vehicles. That's what made us buy our own server (until hackers ruined everything and led to us quitting the mod. They would come on daily and teleport every vehicle to NWAF, including the boats).

 

Basically, what you're forgetting is that you still own your server. It's yours, but in order for it to be allowed to connect to the hive, you have to abide by certain rules that are designed to keep the game fair. This is because you get people who would lock their server, farm up all the best loot in the game with no risk, then take all of that loot onto another server they didn't own just to kill everyone with their superior gear. By all means you are free to kick and ban whoever you want from your server, but because you are effectively cheating at that point by banning players who are playing the game in a way that it was intended to be played, you server is no longer a legitimate server.

 

That's what you fail to understand. Kicking a player for not following your arbitrary rules is cheating. You're no better than the hackers at that point, and it is perfectly reasonable for a server run by a cheater to have his server banned from the hive, just like you would expect any other cheater to be banned.

 

DayZ players must be famous for their assumptions. I don't play on no kos servers. And killing fresh spawns that haven't had a chance to loot yet because there is no end game, is not the way DayZ was meant to be played. Thanks for sharing.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Zeet.

[liquidje 38]

Not at all, but good assumptions ass. I enjoy the fuck out of this game.

Thats great for you, I dont understand tho how the game is that broken if you enjoy "the fuck out of it".

 

And well, your posts do indicate otherwise. You seem to not understand the implications of admins being able to manage their own servers. You call the sandbox aspect which most players love a bad system. you call things utterly retarded because "it is not how other games do it".

 

And thanks for calling me an ass, actually going into discussions with users is usually harder but much more rewarding than calling names. The lack of respect in your communications do not encourage me to enter any discussion with the likes of you.

 

What do you think should actually be done to solve the problem? And is KoS the problem, or killing freshspawns? Maybe if you would just post a bit more elaborate instead of insults...

Edited January 2, 2014 by Liquidje

[Zeet. 101]

Thats great for you, I dont understand tho how the game is that broken if you enjoy "the fuck out of it".

 

And well, your posts do indicate otherwise. You seem to not understand the implications of admins being able to manage their own servers. You call the sandbox aspect which most players love a bad system. you call things utterly retarded because "it is not how other games do it".

 

And thanks for calling me an ass, actually going into discussions with users is usually harder but much more rewarding than calling names. The lack of respect in your communications do not encourage me to enter any discussion with the likes of you.

 

 

Its broken because its alpha genius. I've been admin on many servers on many games and this is the first you can't ban for adequate reasons. And you insulted first, so gtfo? I don't converse with unintelligent condescending 12 year olds.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Zeet.

[LDSkinny 10]

 

DayZ players must be famous for their assumptions. I don't play on no kos servers. And killing fresh spawns that haven't had a chance to loot yet because there is no end game, is not the way DayZ was meant to be played. Thanks for sharing.

 

 

Assumptions? I never said anything about you playing on a No KoS server. I addressed your statement, which I will quote again since you seem to have forgotten you said it.

 

And the inadequate way things are set up now, you can't ban someone for breaking the rules of YOUR server. (Utterly retarded).

 

You are implying that not being allowed to ban someone for breaking the rules that the server admin has set is "utterly retarded."

 

Banning someone from your server for anything other than hacking is cheating. This is not up for debate, this is what you agree to when you purchase a server. What your statement above is saying is actually saying "Not allowing server owners to have a massive advantage over everyone else is utterly retarded."

 

You might not realize that is what you said, but it is. Kicking and banning players for not adhering to your rules is cheating, this is a fact. I don't condone cheaters and neither should you.

[Sooden 301]

I think you can't ban someone unless they brake the basic rules, as posted before (no racism, porn, illegal... and so on).

 

So if the title your server is 'no KOS', you are just advertising the style of game play you wish. like some people title servers 'tactical ops only' or 'team speech only'. As long as they don't ban you for failing to meet their requests in title, I think its okay..

 

Please staff post and clear up if i am wrong

 

Edited: Spelling

Edited January 2, 2014 by Sooden

[OrLoK 16185]

stop the insults.

[Sooden 301]

stop the insults.

oh you cuddly donkey :P

never no if it safe to play with the forum mods

Edited January 2, 2014 by Sooden

[liquidje 38]

Its broken because its alpha genius. I've been admin on many servers on many games and this is the first you can't ban for adequate reasons. And you insulted first, so gtfo? I don't converse with unintelligent condescending 12 year olds.

 

I don't intend to insult, if you took it as an insult I am sorry. You insult just for the kicks of it. Unintelligent 12 year olds? Who is assumptious now?

 

Second, again, this game is different. Those games had no public hive, and even if games had a public shared server for character progress, it was probably on an entirely different scale. The point is, you may not enforce "no KoS", so banning for that is not adequate. If you can not grasp that concept, please read Rocket his posts concerning his plans and vision for the game. It is a great read and gives a better insight why things are done like they are.

 

Again, any attempts for constructive argument from my side (Is KoS the problem, or freshspawns? What is your solution?) is burried under insults. Read your own post and determine who is condescending.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Liquidje

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

DayZ without PvP is boring. DayZ with out Kos is not

 

This argument is so prevalent, it's stunning. I don't understand it for a minute. 

 

If my plan is to eliminate you, then doing it when I see you and before you see me (on sight) is tactically ideal. If this is a "SURVIVAL" game as so many claim, then acting while I am still concealed is the absolute best thing I can do. It maximizes my chances of surviving the encounter. You expect me to step into the open, announce my presence, greet you, and, then what? We engage in some kind of verbal exchange whereby I attempt to justify why I'm about to murder you? In what way is that superior to me simply killing you when I see you and getting it over with?

 

There's only one possible outcome. If my decision is to eliminate you, then that's not going to change after we sit down and have a little chit-chat over a can of beans, so why bother? All it does is vastly increase my odds of being killed and waste both of our time.

 

Conversation is not the path to avoiding KoS. It's remaining unseen. You can't be killed on sight unless you're sighted, and it's not that hard to stay out of sight. Don't run on roads, don't stand in the middle of fields, and don't perch yourself on top of high buildings like a bleeding weather vane. Move quickly, move quietly, and keep moving. Stay in cover when possible and don't stay in one place too long. In short, learn how to survive. You want to play a survival game so badly, but asking you to learn how to survive the presence of people who want to kill you (yes, on sight) is somehow too much? Come on. That's the entire challenge of the game. Suck it up and figure it out.

[lipemr 160]

 

This argument is so prevalent, it's stunning. I don't understand it for a minute. 

 

If my plan is to eliminate you, then doing it when I see you and before you see me (on sight) is tactically ideal. If this is a "SURVIVAL" game as so many claim, then acting while I am still concealed is the absolute best thing I can do. It maximizes my chances of surviving the encounter. You expect me to step into the open, announce my presence, greet you, and, then what? We engage in some kind of verbal exchange whereby I attempt to justify why I'm about to murder you? In what way is that superior to me simply killing you when I see you and getting it over with?

 

There's only one possible outcome. If my decision is to eliminate you, then that's not going to change after we sit down and have a little chit-chat over a can of beans, so why bother? All it does is vastly increase my odds of being killed and waste both of our time.

 

Conversation is not the path to avoiding KoS. It's remaining unseen. You can't be killed on sight unless you're sighted, and it's not that hard to stay out of sight. Don't run on roads, don't stand in the middle of fields, and don't perch yourself on top of high buildings like a bleeding weather vane. Move quickly, move quietly, and keep moving. Stay in cover when possible and don't stay in one place too long. In short, learn how to survive. You want to play a survival game so badly, but asking you to learn how to survive the presence of people who want to kill you (yes, on sight) is somehow too much? Come on. That's the entire challenge of the game. Suck it up and figure it out.

 

 

but explain to us, why do you want to eliminate EVERYBODY you encounter in game? Even when they wouldnt be a threat to you, as you that spotted him first?

 

You're trying to justify the stupid cod/BF mentality that your only goal in game is to kill other people, there's so many games about that nowadays that it turned to be the main rule.

 

Back in ultima online days, you could kill anyone without punishment, get all their stuff, but you wouldnt see as much no-sense killing as you see in this game, why? Because games got dumbed down at the point that shooting another player just to make your e-penis bigger is the main point of playing anyway.

[codave 121]

After carefully reading the replies (even the ones Max edited) in this thread I think I, too, will join in this endeavor.

Why? Because the opposing view seems vastly over-represented and it's proponents ill mannered.

Max Planck your strike through hammer ain't got nothin' on me!!! :D

[Ryu (DayZ) 3]

People can play how ever they want to play but this ass crack wants to get on ANOTHER server when there are millions of them out there just to ruin it for people who's having fun playing the game the way they want lol.

 

Sounds to me like you sucked on them tits for to long and still have not grown up...I play on both and enjoy both but for people to say this game NEEDS KOS go playing fucking COD....right now it's about testing and fixing things but some people can't seem to understand that.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Max Planck
*sigh*. This thread, man. This thread.

[LDSkinny 10]

but explain to us, why do you want to eliminate EVERYBODY you encounter in game? Even when they wouldnt be a threat to you, as you that spotted him first?

 

You're trying to justify the stupid cod/BF mentality that your only goal in game is to kill other people, there's so many games about that nowadays that it turned to be the main rule.

 

Back in ultima online days, you could kill anyone without punishment, get all their stuff, but you wouldnt see as much no-sense killing as you see in this game, why? Because games got dumbed down at the point that shooting another player just to make your e-penis bigger is the main point of playing anyway.

 

That's the funny thing that I see. KoS tend to use that logic to justify killing everyone they see, the idea that it is logical to ensure their survival. Honestly though, if you prioritize your survival you will typically not engage another player at all unless it is absolutely essential. If you are concealed, firing your weapon alerts everyone in the area that there is a hostile presence nearby and puts them on high alert looking for you. God help you if they saw your muzzle flash, because now a target you did not know existed knows your precise location.

 

KoS is incredibly irrational. Taking out specific targets for specific reasons is. I shot a guy on sight because he walked into the house I was in and I was cornered. He had an axe and I had an M4 and I've been charged by them in that exact situation before. I took the shot. I see an unarmed guy fresh off the beach? Why would I shoot him. That just alerts every bandit in the area that I'm here and willing to shoot everyone. The best way to survive is to not be seen at all. That means having the restraint to say "I'm not going to shoot that guy because it is too risky."

 

I was in Zelenegorsk the other day and saw a player running through the town. I took up a defensive position and kept an eye on him from a window. I hear a gunshot and see the player dead in the street, so I scan around and see this player in a window. At this point it is logical to assume if he sees me that he will snipe me, so I shot him through the window and fled from the town. I didn't know if he had friends, so I left. If he hadn't shot that guy, I would been unlikely to know he was there and possibly would have walked into an ambush. Shooting puts you at risk. That is why I don't KoS. I kill when they are an active threat.

[Ineedscoffee 464]

at least have the balls enough to only shoot someone with a firearm or an axe. some of us arn't so lucky with finding things.

 

hell, this spawn i've yet to come across any form of defensive weapon from zombies, let alone a backpack.

[slivniku@gmail.com 93]

but explain to us, why do you want to eliminate EVERYBODY you encounter in game? Even when they wouldnt be a threat to you, as you that spotted him first?

 

You're trying to justify the stupid cod/BF mentality that your only goal in game is to kill other people, there's so many games about that nowadays that it turned to be the main rule.

 

Back in ultima online days, you could kill anyone without punishment, get all their stuff, but you wouldnt see as much no-sense killing as you see in this game, why? Because games got dumbed down at the point that shooting another player just to make your e-penis bigger is the main point of playing anyway.

I think you should take some time and actually read his posts, they actually make sense. But that would be too much I guess...

 

Bottom line is, killing is alowed, for whatever reason you imagine, knowing ZedsDead is out there will actualy make you care more of your char.

[Ryu (DayZ) 3]

I think you can't ban someone unless they brake the basic rules, as posted before (no racism, porn, illegal... and so on).

 

So if the title your server is 'no KOS', you are just advertising the style of game play you wish. like some people title servers 'tactical ops only' or 'team speech only'. As long as they don't ban you for failing to meet their requests in title, I think its okay..

 

Please staff post and clear up if i am wrong

 

Edited: Spelling

Yes they can BAN you for kos because thats the way they are playing the game....if they PAID for the server they can do whatever they want...if you want to kos then join another server there is no reason to be a dick about things.

[LDSkinny 10]

I think you should take some time and actually read his posts, they actually make sense. But that would be too much I guess...

 

Bottom line is, killing is alowed, for whatever reason you imagine, knowing ZedsDead is out there will actualy make you care more of your char.

 

You already have that without KoS, though. The main reason we can't have this discussion is because the KoS supporters assume that anything other than instant engagement of hostilities with any spotted player is being a "carebear."

 

KoS as a philosophy is irrational. It puts you at massive risk for marginal gains. Avoidance is the least risk for no gains. If you are playing with the mindset to survive, the logical course of action is to avoid player interaction at all. This is boring to most, I would guess. KoS players are effectively putting themselves at massive risk not because it is rational, but because they are bored. This suggests that the problem is resolved in other ways, such as adding more content and things to do besides deathmatch. Additionally, the penalty for death is basically nonexistent, so once you gain enough experience to know how to gear up quickly, death is just a minor inconvenience.

 

I get that KoS is a thing, and by no means do I wish for the devs to condone PvE servers, as ridiculous as that is. I just wish players would stop using the justification that KoS is rational. It is not rational. It is at the other end of the extreme from players who wish to chat peacefully with everyone they meet.

[lipemr 160]

I think you should take some time and actually read his posts, they actually make sense. But that would be too much I guess...

 

Bottom line is, killing is alowed, for whatever reason you imagine, knowing ZedsDead is out there will actualy make you care more of your char.

i read all of his posts, they would only make sense if resources were scarce, but they just arent right now, and everybody just want to shoot each other to prove themselves better, JUST that.

 

At the point you find an m4 with enough ammo, you will be well stacked on food, and you can fill up your water on any water pump that you find, they're common as hell.

 

People just kill each other for the thrill of proving themselves better, roughly said, to show that their e-penises are larger than the others. Maybe that's a way to supress their real life insecurity or frustation, who knows.

 

But people dont kill each other for resources, as there's plentiful right now.

[LDSkinny 10]

Yes they can BAN you for kos because thats the way they are playing the game....if they PAID for the server they can do whatever they want...if you want to kos then join another server there is no reason to be a dick about things.

 

I advise you read the thread. You agree to a contract stating that you will not ban players from your server if you wish for it to be connected to the hive.

 

Banning a player for KoS is a form of admin abuse and it is cheating. Doing so will have your server branded as a cheating server and will make it no longer able to access the hive (This effectively kills the server) Admin abuse was a huge problem in the mod and I do not want to see it coming to the standalone.

[Combine (DayZ) 247]

Yes they can BAN you for kos because thats the way they are playing the game....if they PAID for the server they can do whatever they want...if you want to kos then join another server there is no reason to be a dick about things.

 

No.

 

See several posts about this topic already.

 

Until there are private hives there won't be private rules server admins can enforce. They can only advertise / encourage a certain playstyle by mentioning it in the server threads or the welcome messages, but cannot take direct (administrative) action against anything else other than cheating via illegal third party tools or similar.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

KoS is incredibly irrational.

 

If I'm speaking as the "real me" and not a hypothetical sadistic murderous bandit who kills anyone and anything all the time, then yes, we absolutely agree. Where survival is concerned, remaining undetected is obviously the most reliable method to live to see another day.

 

But the person I was responding to was arguing that PvP is interesting while KoS is not, which implies that there is some kind of interaction which KoS eliminates, so I was speaking to that logic. Surely if the alternative is never seeing me at all or even knowing I'm there, then me attempting to hunt you down and kill you is MORE interactive and MORE exciting than me just crouching in the bushes and watching you silently pass like I'm some kind of post-apocalyptic groundhog.

 

I assume this person would consider it "KoS" if, for example, he were to enter the same room as me in a house and instead of waving and saying "g'day mate!" I shoot him in the stomach instead.

 

You're arguing for what some people call "Kill on Detection" or so, which I honestly think is the ideal if your plan is to live as long as possible.

 

But, still, I'll argue until the end of Chernarus that the game would be far less interesting if there weren't at least a few people playing with what people like to call a "CoD mentality."

 

Just like the zombies, these "all murder all the time" players make the game more interesting, not less.

[Sooden 301]

Yes they can BAN you for kos because thats the way they are playing the game....if they PAID for the server they can do whatever they want...if you want to kos then join another server there is no reason to be a dick about things.

 

hope the foulness was not directed at me , as you used 'you' in quotation to my post. i don't kos as i am a HERO  just my post along this topic may confuse as i am willing to see things from more than one side .

Edited January 2, 2014 by Sooden

[Max Planck 7174]

Banning a player for KoS is a form of admin abuse and it is cheating. Doing so will have your server branded as a cheating server and will make it no longer able to access the hive (This effectively kills the server) Admin abuse was a huge problem in the mod and I do not want to see it coming to the standalone.

 

Pretty much right, but there is a detail.

The server won't be cut off from the hive, it's the server renters who will be cut off from 'their' server. In effect, the server is no longer being rented and will be taken down. They don't get to keep it, off-hive.

Servers are currently rented from either Vilayer, Gameservers, GamingDeluxe, Multiplay or Fragnet, and these are the companies we should report abuse to.

[LDSkinny 10]

Pretty much right, but there is a detail.

The server won't be cut off from the hive, it's the server renters who will be cut off from 'their' server. In effect, the server is no longer being rented and will be taken down. They don't get to keep it, off-hive.

Servers are currently rented from either Vilayer, Gameservers, GamingDeluxe, Multiplay or Fragnet, and these are the companies we should report abuse to.

 

Oh good to know, I made an assumption there. I didn't realize that the disciplinary action was on the host's end.

[slivniku@gmail.com 93]

i read all of his posts, they would only make sense if resources were scarce, but they just arent right now, and everybody just want to shoot each other to prove themselves better, JUST that.

 

At the point you find an m4 with enough ammo, you will be well stacked on food, and you can fill up your water on any water pump that you find, they're common as hell.

 

People just kill each other for the thrill of proving themselves better, roughly said, to show that their e-penises are larger than the others. Maybe that's a way to supress their real life insecurity or frustation, who knows.

 

But people dont kill each other for resources, as there's plentiful right now.

couple of lives ago I was really kitted up in Zeleno, but had no food whatsoever, couldn't find any anywhere, screen was B&W, and then someone came running down the street - guess what, he fell down on that street. I didn't shoot him because I was bored but because I wanted to live.

 

From his perspective it was KoS I guess, had nothing to do with boredome. I guess it is all a matter of perspective.