The only solution for DayZ: Simulation.

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

Lately I've been seeing a lot of unimaginative threads. Ideas keep getting regurgitated like reintroducing the humanity system, creating indicators for murderers, sanity, the idea of "end game" (which obviously does not belong in a sandbox game), leveling, "skills," experience points. You name it. Every video game gimmick which has been employed a thousand times in the past, when DayZ truly is trying to be nothing like other games. 

 

 

Dean Hall himself has described DayZ as the "anti-game." Objectiveless, difficult to mind-blowing extremes, brutal, realistic, and immersive. There is only one way we are going to make people "valuable" in this game. There is only one way to keep people from getting bored to the point where murdering other players is literally the only source of satisfaction to be had. Simulation. This is going to be quite long and as you are reading, I want you to try and really imagine these mechanics working in game. Imagine a game chalked full of complexity, where your "skill" is exactly that. Your personal knowledge about the world around you. No gimmicks. Just difficulty through authenticity.

 

 

 

 

- Vehicles.

 

 

Vehicles in the mod were quite simple and in my opinion, too rare, and too easy to repair. Carrying an engine, a fueltank, two tires, and a 20 Liter jerry can in your inventory was no problem. Let's just examine that for a moment. A small 4 cylinder engine is going to weigh in at a minimum of 200 pounds, and of course they only get heavier from there. Fuel tank, lets say 50 pounds. At this point, your backpack straps are going to tear before you lift the damn thing off the ground. Add a couple 20 pound wheels. Now add 20 L of gasoline (1 L of gas is about 1.6 pounds) and you've got 32 pounds. All that put together is roughly 322 pounds. That's the equivalent of strapping a fully grown obese man to your back. There's simply no way this is possible, and it tells me that the vehicle repair system needs a serious overhaul.

 

 

1: Land and Sea Vehicles.

 

 

Major components vs. Minor components.

 

 

- Certain parts (major components) should function as "containers" for other parts (minor components). Just as you can attach a propane container to a gas stove, you should be able to attach spark plugs, fuel injectors, pistons, distributor caps, crankshafts, and belts to an engine block. Rather than replacing an entire engine, you would pop open the hood of the car, look in the "inventory" of a component, and see all these items with their respective conditions.

 

 

 

 

-Batteries, alternators, and other components should be critical to a car's function. Just as in real life, you would need a battery to start a car. If the car has a dead battery, you could either replace it, or even jump the battery with another car using cables. Perhaps you could even use a defibrillator while starting a car to give it a quick jump and get the engine running. The alternator should charge the battery, and therefore if it is ruined, it won't work at all; meaning if you stop the engine, your car is not going to start again. Alternators are small and could be replaced pretty easily. On top of that, the alternator should have a belt just like in real life. You may have a perfect alternator, but if it's belt is ruined, then it's not going to work.

 

-  Wheels should require at least a wrench or a tire iron (which can be found in the trunk of most cars) to replace. Perhaps wheels and tires could be separate items, meaning that a puncture in your tire does not necessarily mean you have to replace the entire wheel. Perhaps with a hammer, or a rock, or a crowbar, you could replace a tire on the hub of a wheel. Additionally, you could repair a punctured tire with duct tape for a short time, giving you enough drive time to move the vehicle.

 

Some minor repairs could be done by hand, others would require specific tools like a screwdriver, a wrench, ect. Repairing major components, like an engine block or a fuel tank, could be done with a welder's torch and fuel for said torch. Instead of carrying around a huge, heavy engine block, you could simply find a welder's torch and repair the engine block already inside a car. 

 

All of these components should have some effect on the function of a vehicle. For example, bad spark plugs, pistons, crankshafts, and tires, would effect the speed of your vehicle. Certain parts like the crankshaft or a tire would completely immobilize the vehicle. Batteries and starter motors obviously effect how well your vehicle starts, if it does so at all. Rather than having a magical indicator at the top of your screen telling you a vehicle's condition, you would have to diagnose the problems by inspecting the components.

 

 

Salvage and Armor (confirmed)

 

 

The basic idea here is that vehicles would actually be quite common, but far more difficult to repair and generally spawning with missing/damaged components. This means salvaging parts from different vehicles would be a necessity, and doing so would require tools. This way, you could take an alternator from one car, a battery from another, a few pistons from this truck, ect, and then consolidate those items into your vehicle of choice and get it running. Some parts could also spawn in garages and industrial areas of course, those having a higher chance of being Pristine or in decent condition at least.

 

-Taking doors and armoring cars has already been talked about by Rocket, so I don't think this needs to be addressed to much. Perhaps with a welding torch you could attach armor. Doors and other outside components from vehicles could be salvaged and used with basic tools like a wrench or screwdriver.

 

 

2: Air Vehicles

 

 

While flying air vehicles in the mod had a small degree of difficulty, it isn't enough. Starting a plane or a helicopter is a process that requires some knowledge, and this should be reflected in the game. Take on Helicopters has a good system which requires preflight and startup, and how convenient, it uses the RV engine.

 

 

Now imagine trying to do this with no prior research or instruction. You're probably not getting off the ground. And that's how it should be. Nobody is born knowing how to fly a helicopter. In game books could provide a medium for delivering these instructions to the player without forcing them to break their play and look for a youtube video, but of course that's perfectly fine too. It's all about what the player personally knows and is good at, which is right in the vein of DayZ. Anyone can do it, but not everyone is going to take the time to learn. If it's naturally difficult, players who know how to pilot a helicopter successfully are going to have a natural "value" for their skill, which nobody can take away. No matter how many times you die, you are personally still skilled at flying a helicopter in DayZ.

 

Air vehicles should have a similar repair system to cars, as in the engine, rotors, and other major components being "containers" for minor components. Carrying around a whole helicopter rotor is totally insane, but carrying around bearings, control rods, swash plates, and the like, is far more believable and adds a degree of difficulty to repairing a helicopter that we never had before. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Similarly, helicopter engines should have their own class of components and should be rare to find, or they could be salvaged from another helicopter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Medicine, Surgery, and Physical Conditioning.

 

 

Right now the combat in DayZ could be described as binary at best. Either you are:

 

1: Conscious.

 

2: Conscious with broken legs.

 

3: Unconscious.

 

4: Dead.

 

That doesn't really leave a lot of room for improvisation. So here are my ideas.

 

 

The Organ System

 

 

- Create hit boxes for major organs. Each organ (similar to a car part) would have a damage state. By default, they are healthy and normal. Being shot, stabbed, or hit with a blunt object would change the state of the organs affected to hurt, punctured, or eviscerated. Obviously different organs would have different damage thresholds. For example, a punctured brain or heart would obviously kill you immediately. A punctured lung, liver, or stomach, on the other hand, would not. 

 

- A hurt organ (66%~80% health) would heal itself over a short time, assuming your player is fed and hydrated.

 

- A punctured organ (33% - 66% health) would take a VERY long time to heal (2+ hours in game), and would cause your character constant pain and would affect your mobility.

 

- An eviscerated organ ( <33%) would not heal on it's own and would result in unconsciousness and rapid death by internal bleeding.

 

 

 

Internal vs. External bleeding

 

 

Wounds should cause different types of bleeding. Zombie attacks, minor knife wounds, and other blunt trauma would only cause external bleeding. A punctured organ would cause minor internal bleeding, which would make you nauseous and light-headed. An eviscerated organ would cause major internal bleeding, which would make you sick, cause you to cough up lots of blood, and ultimately lead to a grim death.

 

 

Realistic Morphine.

 

 

Says it all. This shouldn't be a simple cure-all for broken legs. It should be a pain killer and a way to prevent unconsciousness. Broken legs should be mended through splinting, and should cause your player to limp for a period of time. Whatever happened to those limping animations, rocket?

 

 

Bullets in the Body

 

 

Bullets should have a chance of remaining in your body until they are removed. This could be done with forceps, a scalpel, or even a knife and some pliers. Removing bullets would not be a necessity, but leaving them in would increase the amount of time it takes your body to heal.

 

 

Additional States of Consciousness

 

 

I'm talking knockdowns. 

 

When a person is shot in the chest, arm, or leg, it's not typically instant unconsciousness or death. Often times they are barely conscious, in a state of shock, but still able to do certain things. Implementing more knockdown states and animations could really add to the gunplay. For example, instead of simply "going prone" when you get hit in the leg, you should also be able to sit up and drag yourself around, much like the sitting animation from Arma 3. In this state, you could back yourself into a corner and use your gun to defend yourself. You could also try to crawl to safety.

 

 

As stated before, your organ status would have an effect on your health. This also applies in this state. Say you're in a house, and someone shoots you in the chest through the window. The shot knocks you down, and you drag yourself into a corner with an awful pounding in your head, wheezing as your punctured lung fills with excess fluid. You quickly apply a bandage and wait for your assailant to enter the door, at which point you unload your pistol into his neck and face, killing him. Now at this point, you might just have to sit there and wait to die. If you were hit in the heart, your death is imminent. You're coughing up blood, wheezing, waiting for death, and it doesn't happen. So you crawl upstairs and use a pair of pliers and a bayonet to dig a bullet from your side. You inject yourself with morphine to ease the pain, and slowly but surely you begin to recover.

 

 

Defibrillators

 

 

- Defibs should work on unconscious and dead players, as long as they haven't respawned yet, or within 15 minutes (whichever comes first). Furthermore, defibrillators should only restore a person's consciousness. They would not fix damaged organs or bleeding.

 

 

Tool Based Surgery

 

 

Basically, if you have the right tools, you can do different things. A scalpel or a knife will allow you to make incisions. Forceps or pliers will allow you to remove bullets. A suturing kit will allow you to attempt to repair organs. So if a person is shot in the stomach, your first measure would be to remove the bullet. Next, you want to make an incision. Then, with a suturing kit, you could actually make an attempt to repair the organ. Of course depending on the damage of said organ, you have less of a chance of succeeding. This can all be done through items you have equipped. 

 

So let's say you have a patient, dying from internal bleeding. You give him a saline bag to keep his blood pressure up. You give him morphine (or vodka; I like to think there should be multiple ways to do the same thing) to stop the pain and prevent him from going into shock. Then, you put the scalpel in your hand and choose "make incision." You put the suturing kit in your hand and choose "repair organ(s)" This plays an animation and takes some time, and obviously he is loosing blood as you do this.

 

Based on some simple dice rolls, you will either receive a message that says "you have failed to repair (player's) (organ)." or "you have successfully repaired (player's) (organ)." Then, you can choose "close incision" with the suturing kit, which will stop the blood loss. Assuming you were successful, the player will now be able to make a full recovery. If you are not, the player will die of internal bleeding. Or you could choose to simply leave the incision open and let him bleed out. The possibilities are endless.

 

- Contaminated tools would also impart any infections they have to your patient. They could also pick up infections from a patient who is already sick. This would make disinfecting medical items to prevent infection very important, which brings me to another point.

 

Resistance

 

When your player catches a particular infection and manages to overcome it, that character should become resistant to that particular illness. After catching the same sickness two or three times and surviving, you would become totally immune. If you die, you would lose this immunity. This both adds an incentive to survive an infection, and provides just a little extra motivation to keep your character alive longer. It's realistic, and it isn't a "level" or a "skill" of any kind.

 

I mean, just imagine the kind of stories we could be telling each other on these forums. How "I found a survivor and nursed him back to health, and later he betrayed me." Or how people might actually become friends over such an event. Or "I tried to save my friend but he was too far gone and I had to put him down." That sort of thing. It would make the experience far more compelling.

 

 

Crafting. (Confirmed)

 

 

This is something I think we are all impatient to see in it's full glory. Rocket has talked about making improvised explosives, combining certain items, ect. We need this. Fortunately the dev team is most likely already working on their own plans so I don't feel like I need to say much here.

 

 

Hunting and Gathering. (confirmed)

 

 

- Animals must behave realistically. There was nothing more annoying to me than the deer in Oblivion which couldn't even outrun your player. It's silly. Deer can run in excess of 30 mph, which means stealth and patience are key.

 

 

- Traps. Setting up snares to capture hare, laying down salt or corn in a field to attract a deer to your killzone, ect.

 

 

- Dangerous animals. Boar are known to cause horrible lacerations with their tusks, are quite territorial, and tend to travel in packs. Also, coming across wolves or the occasional Eurasian brown bear would be awesome and terrifying.

 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2361758/The-wolfs-door-Killer-beasts-roaming-Western-Europe-time-100-years.html

 

 

- I saw a while back some pictures of the team Mo-capping dogs and horses. Hopefully this means dogs could be used to help the player hunt, either by catching rabbits, or by leading you to prey animals. Also dogs could alert you of danger, like wolves, bears, zombies, and even nearby humans.

 

 

Construction.

 

 

The title says it all. We need the ability, and the necessity, to build fortifications, camps, and barricades. While I admit that many features of Epoch are not suitable for the Standalone, I think it provides a good model of how construction can be put to use effectively in this game.

 

 

- Cold should be a real part of this game. I was hoping that the breath was going to be an indicator of that mechanic, but sadly it isn't. Temperatures should drop at night in particular. Your character should shiver, as on Namalsk. Messages like "I feel cold," "I'm freezing," and "I can't feel my fingers" should be indicators of hypothermia, which will not only prevent your character from healing and make you hungry more rapidly, but will also knock you unconscious and kill you if you don't find a way to warm yourself up. Cooking food and making hot drinks like tea or coffee should also help with this.

 

 

- Safes, lockable cars, and other storage devices are part of this.

 

 

- All player constructions should be destructible by other players and zombies, which means you are never truly safe.

 

 

- Enforcing a certain amount of maintenance for constructions would prevent players from building things that are way too massive, and would help the server to automatically clean up any unused constructions.

 

-Building anything larger than a door barricade, or a small wall, or a tent, should require lots of heavy materials and should even require that more than one person interact with a construction simultaneously. You can't carry thousands of pounds of cinder blocks on your own in real life, nor are you going to throw up a wooden shack in minutes. Needing an extra pair of hands is one of the main themes through these ideas, as with surgery. Requiring a certain level of cooperation for certain actions will increase player interaction, whether it's good, bad, or neutral.

 

 

Zombies. The ultimate threat.

 

 

Zombies are probably the biggest challenge this game has to face. They simply must be a viable threat to players. They should be fast, they should be able to knock players down, grab players and slow them down, and of course their numbers have to be up to snuff. They should also be able to tear down player fortifications and move in herds.

 

 

Someone else made a thread and suggested that zombies should also be able to spawn inside buildings (which are not player controlled, of course) and lie dormant on couches, beds, inside car wrecks and such. This would bring a nice sense of context to the zombie virus and would make looting much more dangerous. It would also be neat if they had a 50/50 chance of being alive when they spawn in these stationary positions, to maintain that element of surprise.

 

 

A Larger Game World.

 

 

I made a post about this idea a few months ago, and I think down the road it's going to be the only option to keep the game feeling alive and fresh.

 

 

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/149976-long-term-standalone-discussion-globalization-logistics-economy-and-more/

 

 

 

 

 

Basically the way it works is through a "cell" based mega map. Reaching the edge of one map would give you an in-game server browser, which would allow you to move to the next map. With this technique, the game world could be basically endless. Of course there are a few technical hurdles to accomplish with this idea, such as enabling vehicles to travel across servers and such, but I think it's a worthwhile consideration.

 

Another key feature of this cell system is that travelling into a new cell increases the value of your character's life, as you would not be able to respawn in what I call the "frontier" cells. This would add a more survivalist aspect to the game, where having made it across many different maps would be a status players could wear with pride. Also, adding higher value loot, buildings, and more interesting areas outside the spawn map would provide an incentive for players to explore more and utilize the systems which I have proposed above. This could really tie the game together into what I would consider a "full release title."

 

 

 

So there it is. Probably the longest post I've ever made. Any other ideas like this? I'm talking big picture stuff here. People seem to be attracted to negativity on this forum, so it's hard to get these kinds of ideas rolling throughout the community. Instead, we tend to focus on troll threads and nonsense complaints, when really, this is just the beginning of what DayZ could be. The solution to KoS mentality is not to punish killers. It's giving them something else to do, and this is it. This is the "something else" that we could be doing. Exploring. Hunting. Building. Learning to fly helicopters and repair vehicles. Removing bullets from our injured friends. Facing massive hoards of terrifying zombies. Overcoming sickness. Surviving.

 

Happy new year everyone!

Edited January 2, 2014 by SalamanderAnder

[The_Man 393]

Excellent work but you are getting so far ahead of yourself and the game at the moment. Awesome to see a thread like this. I really love the ideas but it made me realize that these things are not of much priority right now considering other issues. Could these get implemented in 2014? Maybe some of them. 
 
These ideas would with out a doubt make the game more awesome. But at the moment they seem like a luxury considering other issues. 
 
One major thing you should add here is better sound. I have not heard much about what the team is doing in terms of audio in the game. Someone posted a thread here with a mock up video of what he would like some aspects of the game should sound like. I will look for that thread and link it here. 
 
Edit: 
 
Here is the thread: http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/160488-dayz-sound-design-test/?hl=sound

Edited January 1, 2014 by The_Man

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

Excellent work but you are getting so far ahead of yourself and the game at the moment. Awesome to see a thread like this. I really love the ideas but it made me realize that these things are not of much priority right now considering other issues. Could these get implemented in 2014? Maybe some of them. 

 

These ideas would with out a doubt make the game more awesome. But at the moment they seem like a luxury considering other issues. 

 

One major thing you should add here is better sound. I have not heard much about what the team is doing in terms of audio in the game. Someone posted a thread here with a mock up video of what he would like some aspects of the game should sound like. I will look for that thread and link it here. 

 

Well, I don't feel like treading territory that has already been discussed. It's pointless. Plus rocket has said that sound is very important to this project, they've hired new sound professionals specifically for this task. So I think it will come with time. However, I really don't consider these to be luxuries, when we shift the discussion to Beta and Full Release. I know that there are still more issues to be overcome in the short term, however the game does need more content, or else it will become quite stale.

Edited January 1, 2014 by SalamanderAnder

[Kit - Alpha Six 31]

Great ideas!!

Most parts should be picked up with a vehicle and to have a parter with you to pick up say an engine or something. Add a little more realism. Of course big parts should be picked up with a vehicle.

All other ideas are supported by me. Especially shelter from the elements.

[The_Man 393]

Well, I don't feel like treading territory that has already been discussed. It's pointless. Plus rocket has said that sound is very important to this project, they've hired new sound professionals specifically for this task. So I think it will come with time. However, I really don't consider these to be luxuries, when we shift the discussion to Beta and Full Release. I know that there are still more issues to be overcome in the short term, however the game does need more content, or else it will become quite stale.

 

Good point. Hopefully this thread inspires people to start thinking about the expansion of DayZ that will inevitably come! I called them luxuries because I am a pessimist! haha. So no offensive! 

 

As far as vehicles go: Do you think a running train is out of the question? Not a "Cho Cho All Aboard!" train but perhaps a salvaged train that is turned into an "apocalyptic cab". It would be interesting to see people travelling along the railroad. Hell, I would even settle for a handcar. 

 

[soulfirez 901]

you have my beans hey rocket i hope you notice this post cause there is some great stuff in it and posted by someone who obviously trully loves the idea of the game you started.....

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

Great ideas!!

Most parts should be picked up with a vehicle and to have a parter with you to pick up say an engine or something. Add a little more realism. Of course big parts should be picked up with a vehicle.

All other ideas are supported by me. Especially shelter from the elements.

 

I agree, heavy items should be hard to transport as well. But the real key here is that most of the time in a real life scenario, you aren't going to replace an entire engine, just small components of that engine, like hoses, belts, little bits and bobs which are all part of that larger machine. The block itself is usually not the problem, but rather some malfunctioning part of it.

 

Good point. Hopefully this thread inspires people to start thinking about the expansion of DayZ that will inevitably come! I called them luxuries because I am a pessimist! haha. So no offensive! 

 

As far as vehicles go: Do you think a running train is out of the question? Not a "Cho Cho All Aboard!" train but perhaps a salvaged train that is turned into an "apocalyptic cab". It would be interesting to see people travelling along the railroad. Hell, I would even settle for a handcar. 

 

 

That's a good idea. I love the idea of handcars specifically because it's an easy way for fresh spawns to move around the map quickly and it's a good way of transporting heavy items. No fuel required!

[Dancing.Russian.Man 1631]

Give this man more beans.

For effort's sake if nothing else.

 

And, OP, it's funny that you post that Take on Helicopters tutorial video.

It was used by Rocket(?) as well to give us an idea on how difficult he wants to make flying a helicopter.

Surely there will be a lot of detail added to vehicles (at least the more complex ones), but it's doubtfully a priority anytime soon.

 

A weight system has definitely been talked about as well, and we'll probably hear more about it relatively soon.

 

Personally, I can't wait.

Edit; Even bigger font. We must give more.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Dancing.Russian.Man

[The_Man 393]

 No fuel required!

 

Fresh bambi sweat is a renewable resource. We need to go green after the apocalypse!

[The_Man 393]

Something I find extremely lacking in the game is the extreme dependency we have on looting. Sure enough this will be diminished when hunting and gathering is put into motion. May I suggest "primitive" skills be added to your hunting and gathering section? 

 

For example, there are people in the wilderness who can manage to survive using only what nature provides. Knapping, for example, is a way for someone to create their own tools and weapons out of obsidian, flint, etc. Ideas of this nature would really bring the survivalist aspect of the game into fruition. I have seen a trend of players who really wish to keep away from large cities and only venture into them when they need to for medical supplies or the like. 

 

Being able to create your own arrowheads or knives/skinning tools in the wilderness would be great. Overall though, I would really like nature to offer more rather than cities being the main concentration of supplies be it weapons or tools. What do you guys think? 

 

[Bakercompany86 347]

I think my favorite of what you said is definitely the vehicle section.  I really like having anything involving vehicles ultra realistic.

 

I'm still on the fence on whether I'd like to see aircraft in the game, but I wouldn't absolutely hate it.

 

I know all the medics out there are loving your Medical additions, especially the surgeries.  I dig it too.

 

As far as having multiple maps, I wonder if that would be difficult to do.  You need a separate server for each map.  I'm definitely for expanding the map over time.

 

The more realistic and immersive this game is, the happier I am.  These are the kinds of ideas I like to see, not effin' morality/karma systems and skills...

[Rkelt 46]

I really like your ideas mate (especially car components)...There goes my beans

[Zogvarn 118]

All excellent ideas.

 

The vehicle parts idea I particularly like. If something like that is but into place I could support the idea of vehicles then.

[wigbig 17]

Good post, but to be honest I wouldn't be surprised if the developers/team have already thought of this stuff ages ago. Most of it kind of goes without saying when you want to add depth to the game, but i liked your idea on the implementation of engine parts!

I also strongly agree with the idea of having common vehicles, except most being in a state of disrepair, so you would have to find a lot of parts to fix them.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Wigbig

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

As far as having multiple maps, I wonder if that would be difficult to do.  You need a separate server for each map.  I'm definitely for expanding the map over time.

 

The more realistic and immersive this game is, the happier I am.  These are the kinds of ideas I like to see, not effin' morality/karma systems and skills...

 

Indeed, I'm not really sure on what technical issues would need to be overcome to make the map portal system work, but I think the server functionality would be pretty simple. You could have more than one server hosting each map, in fact, you'd have to because at max we can only get 40 players right now, hopefully 100 at release. The idea though is that you could only go to other maps by physically reaching the boundary of the map you are on. So if you are in Chernarus, you could only join other servers that are hosting Chernarus.

 

But when you reach one of the edges of the map, you would be presented with a server selection screen that would allow you to go to any server of your choosing which is hosting the particular map attached to that boundary. This I think is the most flexible way, since servers tend to come and go, plus certain ones may be full or empty, or whatever. So basically you're choosing from the same physical location, but just a different provider for that location.

 

The only problem is hives. So private hives would basically be out of the question here, because moving from a private hive to a public hive would present obvious issues. Also I think a timeout would be necessary, so if you move across to another map, you can't instantly double back and go to a different Chernarus server. But that should be tied into however they plan to fix server hopping anyway, so it's not too much of an issue.

 

 

Something I find extremely lacking in the game is the extreme dependency we have on looting. Sure enough this will be diminished when hunting and gathering is put into motion. May I suggest "primitive" skills be added to your hunting and gathering section? 

 

For example, there are people in the wilderness who can manage to survive using only what nature provides. Knapping, for example, is a way for someone to create their own tools and weapons out of obsidian, flint, etc. Ideas of this nature would really bring the survivalist aspect of the game into fruition. I have seen a trend of players who really wish to keep away from large cities and only venture into them when they need to for medical supplies or the like. 

 

Being able to create your own arrowheads or knives/skinning tools in the wilderness would be great. Overall though, I would really like nature to offer more rather than cities being the main concentration of supplies be it weapons or tools. What do you guys think? 

 

 

 

I also like this idea. Hopefully we'll get to see bows and arrows some day. I know rocket said that he wanted to add gathering things like rocks from the environment, so it would be a pretty logical extension of that mechanic and the crafting system. Also, I want to be able to combine a bayonet or a knife with a stick and make a spear.

Edited January 1, 2014 by SalamanderAnder

[MystoganXIX 78]

OP got me excited now... I can't wait until the day that I get to sit on the side of a mountain zoomed in on an airfield watching newbies struggle with the helicopters.

 

All that shit you'd have to do to get the heli started... its a sniper's wet dreams to stumble upon that. Hell, I may not even shoot, people will probably just crash and kill themselves.

[floj 393]

Absolutely love the detail of your post. BUT I disagree with some points.

 

I don't agree with the 'skill' of flying/taking off of aircraft OK, so you have to learn a few steps to getting the heli in the air...once...

 

Then that knowledge is with you til the end of time, whether your character is freshly spawned or not.

 

I think there comes a point where a 'gamification' of elements is a necessity to keep the newbies and pros on some kind of par. Are we gonna ask for newbies to learn the different ways to suture effectively? How to clean a weapon? How to use a can opener correctly (believe me I've had to lol at seeing some fresh spawns at uni struggle with an old fashioned one)... basically yeah if you can fly an aircraft IRL good for you, if you're a medic IRL, again good for you (arguably better imo since you're not polluting the world with CO2 whilst showing off your skills...) BUT it's a game.

 

You are a freshly spawned zombie apocalypse survivor. Would you know how to suture? Possibly. Would you know how to fly a helicopter? Unlikely. Would you know how to fire a gun...would you know all three? Unlikely unless you were a member of the medics in the army that flew a heli or lived in 'merica.

 

As I've mentioned before in prior threads I'm a big fan of studying game mechanics and I don't believe that because someone has played a game to death that they should have such an advantage over a beginner. Also as I mentioned in another thread, having the potential for game-level enforced skills might decrease the KOS chance. "Oh great, you can fly a copter/suture this wound/remove this bullet, I won't kill you...YET."

 

I do appreciate that the game should be tough, but there comes a certain level where simulation is TOO in depth and also in having mastered what depth there is, it would become a shallower experience for the vets. "Oh I already learnt that I have to do ABC to suture a wound, or I can fly a heli, or I can find which transistor is faulty and replace it in a radio or I can gut a rabbit or I can make an engine from scratch or I can...."

 

Personally I'd just consider skill learning as 'mental gear' that has to be acquired from interaction with other players instead of from an airfield.

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

Absolutely love the detail of your post. BUT I disagree with some points.

 

I don't agree with the 'skill' of flying/taking off of aircraft OK, so you have to learn a few steps to getting the heli in the air...once...

 

Then that knowledge is with you til the end of time, whether your character is freshly spawned or not.

 

I think there comes a point where a 'gamification' of elements is a necessity to keep the newbies and pros on some kind of par. Are we gonna ask for newbies to learn the different ways to suture effectively? How to clean a weapon? How to use a can opener correctly (believe me I've had to lol at seeing some fresh spawns at uni struggle with an old fashioned one)... basically yeah if you can fly an aircraft IRL good for you, if you're a medic IRL, again good for you (arguably better imo since you're not polluting the world with CO2 whilst showing off your skills...) BUT it's a game.

 

You are a freshly spawned zombie apocalypse survivor. Would you know how to suture? Possibly. Would you know how to fly a helicopter? Unlikely. Would you know how to fire a gun...would you know all three? Unlikely unless you were a member of the medics in the army that flew a heli or lived in 'merica.

 

As I've mentioned before in prior threads I'm a big fan of studying game mechanics and I don't believe that because someone has played a game to death that they should have such an advantage over a beginner. Also as I mentioned in another thread, having the potential for game-level enforced skills might decrease the KOS chance. "Oh great, you can fly a copter/suture this wound/remove this bullet, I won't kill you...YET."

 

I do appreciate that the game should be tough, but there comes a certain level where simulation is TOO in depth and also in having mastered what depth there is, it would become a shallower experience for the vets. "Oh I already learnt that I have to do ABC to suture a wound, or I can fly a heli, or I can find which transistor is faulty and replace it in a radio or I can gut a rabbit or I can make an engine from scratch or I can...."

 

Personally I'd just consider skill learning as 'mental gear' that has to be acquired from interaction with other players instead of from an airfield.

 

Well yeah that's basically the point of this thread. Starting a helicopter isn't a "game skill." It's a skill that you, as a human being playing the video game, has memorized outside the video game. If you saw the ToH video you would see what I'm saying. Just having a complicated startup sequence is the skill which you have to aquire. Shooting a gun, honestly, does not take any skill. Anyone who hasn't shot a gun can learn to in about 30 minutes. Same with surgery. It isn't a "skill" except that you happen to have the tools necessary and you have the basic sense to do things in the right order. Failure to disinfect your tools, for example, would lead to your patient getting an infection. It isn't a "skill," it's something you remembered to do. Death has nothing to do with it, so you may be misinterpreting that part.

 

I don't think there's anything too in depth for DayZ to explore. Everyone keeps complaining about KoS, well that's because we have nothing to do, because the game is actually just too easy. Even in the mod without all this stuff, KoS was rampant. Getting a helicopter meant basically nothing, because anyone could start it, fly it, repair it, ect. That's the learning curve. Without it, there's no challenge to overcome in the first place. Even with this stuff in place, it's going to be damned hard for a "veteran" to get even a car running, because it necessitates that you get all the parts, tools, and shit that you need to fix the car (or helicopter). Then you have to survive long enough to get to the vehicle, repair it, and be on your way, and even then some noob with an AR could just shoot you out and take it.

 

That's the whole point. It's equally challenging to everyone. Having played it more doesn't really make it any less difficult, it just makes you better at the game. Tell me, what game is just as easy for beginners as it is for veterans? None. Even Super Mario Brothers has skill. Even veterans at Pong are going to be better than beginners. There is literally no amount of "game design" that's going to take that away. Again, I don't see where talking about real life has anything to do with this, because as you stated, IT'S A GAME. However, this is a simulation engine, so we might as well use it to it's fullest potential. I don't think the surgery system is too complicated, if someone doesn't want to utilize it then sucks to be them? I mean, what's the difference, really? Making things too easy is just allowing the trolls to rove around killing players because "there's nothing else to do" and "for the lulz." This system provides an incentive to become better at something besides hunting and killing other players, which is also a kind of skill. Not everyone is a "veteran" at PvP. So by your logic, let's just give everyone aimbot because aiming is too hard. I don't get it. This is supposed to be a deep game.

Edited January 1, 2014 by SalamanderAnder

[jackal40k@cfu.net 98]

Man you're thinking way way way way way waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too far ahead. Let's start with zombies and flashlights not going through walls and go from there.

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

Man you're thinking way way way way way waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too far ahead. Let's start with zombies and flashlights not going through walls and go from there.

 

Uhg, there's already 152,047 threads about both of those things. No thanks. I'd rather look forward - to a brighter future!

[The_Man 393]

Uhg, there's already 152,047 threads about both of those things. No thanks. I'd rather look forward - to a brighter future!

 

As he said. I thought he was getting ahead of himself but he makes a good point. We need to stop stating the obvious so much in multiple threads. These major glitches will be taken care of through the bug tracker I believe. 

 

On top of that we have seen a lot of ideas that wouldn't really make DayZ unique but rather turn DayZ into more like other games or previous mods. 

 

The point of this thread is to inspire people to come up with where we want to see DayZ down the line. I'm not seeing much of that now because everyone is so focused on why the Alpha "sucks". I think we can leave it up to bug tracking and a few threads to take care of that. We as a community should be focused on the future of the game. 

 

We need more of this! The community needs to come to some sort of an agreement of what we think will make DayZ awesome with a long lifespan. We carry the fire! (The Road reference) 

 

Happy New Year everyone! May DayZ get more and more awesome with each update. Good luck to both the developers and our community. Let us start this new year right. High posters and veterans of this game need to work together to make this community solid! :) I hope I can be part of it. 

[floj 393]

I lost you when you said 'surgery isn't a skill'

 

Sorry but...really?

 

OK, so because the game has already simplified surgery, vehicle mechanics and beyond, someone just has to learn a simple ABC for each task and they're automatically able to perform any feat under the sun?

 

Unless it requires you to learn absolutely everything necessary to a real life degree, I see absolutely NO reason that your character should be able to perform such deeds just because you've learned a simple order of commands to do so.

 

Sterilise your tools before an operation...is that it with your consideration of what medical procedures entail? What about find out which organ(s) might be affected, check out which veins, arterys and major organs are in the vicinity of the area you're about to dig sharp needles into? Possibly consider any allergies of the patient before administering antibiotics? Jesus, are you master of the world because you learned an ABC of operations from a video game? If that's the case I'm inclined to suggest rocket veto continuation in case you decide to become a brain surgeon based on what you learned here...

 

Really... there's a LOT more to flying a helicopter than the takeoff procedure. There's a lot more to performing an operation than disinfecting your tools before you start. If you want simulation, I want you to learn all the shit a surgeon has to actually learn and all the shit a heli pilot has to know to avoid going into a spiral of doom...

 

Please if the zombie apocalypse happens, don't perform surgery on me or anyone I know and don't fly an aircraft within 100km of me.

[NagsterTheGangster 388]

Holy ideas! Im lovin them though, especially the car parts one and the zombie ai one.

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

I lost you when you said 'surgery isn't a skill'

 

Sorry but...really?

 

OK, so because the game has already simplified surgery, vehicle mechanics and beyond, someone just has to learn a simple ABC for each task and they're automatically able to perform any feat under the sun?

 

Unless it requires you to learn absolutely everything necessary to a real life degree, I see absolutely NO reason that your character should be able to perform such deeds just because you've learned a simple order of commands to do so.

 

Sterilise your tools before an operation...is that it with your consideration of what medical procedures entail? What about find out which organ(s) might be affected, check out which veins, arterys and major organs are in the vicinity of the area you're about to dig sharp needles into? Possibly consider any allergies of the patient before administering antibiotics? Jesus, are you master of the world because you learned an ABC of operations from a video game? If that's the case I'm inclined to suggest rocket veto continuation in case you decide to become a brain surgeon based on what you learned here...

 

Really... there's a LOT more to flying a helicopter than the takeoff procedure. There's a lot more to performing an operation than disinfecting your tools before you start. If you want simulation, I want you to learn all the shit a surgeon has to actually learn and all the shit a heli pilot has to know to avoid going into a spiral of doom...

 

Please if the zombie apocalypse happens, don't perform surgery on me or anyone I know and don't fly an aircraft within 100km of me.

 

Lol um, okay. Pointless argument is pointless. There's no reason to be a fucking dick, or to make assumptions about my "ego," or whatever. Yep, I came up with some ideas about a video game, I must think I'm the "master of the world."  B) WOOO MASTER OF THE WORLD! (Guitar solo)

 

Propose a better system then. Oversimplification is boring, and boring is not what this game needs. Honestly the ToH system is a very good amount of simulation for something like taking off a helicopter. Even someone who is skilled at flying a chopper has to startup a helicopter the same way every time. Again, surgery is a real life skill yes, but it's not a "skill" in terms of the game as in "Oh boy I got xp points, now I can level up my surgery skill!" Please. In the apocalypse, doctors would be in short supply, field medicine would be the only way to keep your friends alive. Are you saying that applying a BANDAGE to fix BULLET WOUNDS is more realistic or requires more "skill" than the surgery system proposed? I even said, a dice roll would determine your chances of succeeding or failing at a surgical task, based on the tools you have, and the condition of the patient. Looks like you're actually just splitting hairs to prove your argument, which sounds like a watered-down system which is far less authentic than a real life situation. Obviously we can't simulate every vein and artery in the body, but this is more realistic than "Oh I wrapped my shot torso in a rag, now I'm all better!" lol.

 

And I don't get this ABC thing you keep coming back at me with. Almost every task in life can be boiled down to ABC. How to put on shoes: A: grab shoe. B: Put shoe on. C: Tie laces.

 

What's the difference? The operations, the tools required, this is all in the vein of DayZ. Look at the mod. A: Get engine part. B: Get toolbox. C: Fix entire car engine and drive away. So what are you saying here, exactly? Are you just trolling or do you have something constructive to provide or....?

Edited January 1, 2014 by SalamanderAnder

[Roshi (DayZ) 396]

- Love the vehicle stuff - would like to see a 'carrying heavy object' animation - can't slot big items like wheels or other major vehicle components into your inventory (as in the mod) but makes you walk slow and have to shoulder your weapons. Also makes me think that carrying a duffel bag in a similar way for extra carrying capacity would be a good idea - in a group you could have a designated pack mule when you raid a military base to come away with more goodies (but who has to drop the bag and get his weapons out or just plain run for it in a fire fight).

- Definitely port Take-on-helicopters or something similar.

- I like the level of complexity you want to bring to the medical system but a few bits are off (e.g. I'd be scared sh*tless to remove a bullet from abdominal wound without visualising the abdomen first, and in non-sterile conditions you're in trouble regardless). A lot of wounds to major organs just wouldn't be fixable in a world like DayZ (unless you came across a trained surgeon, a theatre team and a lot of appropriate kit). However, it would be an interesting dynamic to have someone in your group with a potentially fatal wound that just takes a long time to knock them off. 

Edited January 1, 2014 by Roshi