Color degradation from blood loss has to go (loss of visual fidelity)

[gibonez 3633]

Color degration when hurt is flat-out lazy.

 

Ruining the graphical fidelity of the game is unacceptable.

[eleventhavenue 204]

Color degration when hurt is flat-out lazy.

 

Ruining the graphical fidelity of the game is unacceptable.

 

Except that, no, it's actually not unacceptable. It is also most probably going to stay. You may think that it is unacceptable, but that does not make it so.

 

I've experienced around 4 hours of being greyouted (when blood regeneraton didn't work) and I didn't have any problems with that, I got used to it pretty quickly, altough It was nice to get the colors back.

[mercules 1290]

Color degration when hurt is flat-out lazy.

 

Ruining the graphical fidelity of the game is unacceptable.

 

It's a real life thing ergo it actually required thought. Much less lazy than say, a health bar/value. 

[Bribase 251]

Maybe you don't understand that this is actually a real condition?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greyout

 

Now loss of peripheral vision sounds interesting! Do you think it could be applied gradually prior to the grey out effect? It would be interesting to see something reflect your character's lack of attentiveness due to exhaustion, hunger, injury or pain before the real effects of blood loss kick in?

[LDSkinny 10]

I wouldn't mind it if getting healed was a reasonable proposition or if there was an actual reason to stay alive. As it stands now, in the time it will take to get a friend to log on and travel to me, assuming we have a blood bag and access to the proper blood type, I could have killed myself in a relatively secure location and returned to my body with a fresh uninjured spawn, so if I take more than a couple hits from a zombie or end up in one of those situations where trying to bandage myself ends up making the bandages disappear until they magically reappear 10 minutes later after I've all but bled out, I just act as though my character died and lure a nice zombie friend to finish myself off and respawn. The biggest reason this is the most viable solution is that I can drink 20 canteens worth of water and eat a full box of cereal and a pack of rice (why on earth did they disable the message saying when you're full now, I never know when to stop eating which is ridiculous. I'm hoping that's a bug.) so I know that I'm stocked on water and food. Yet, even a half hour later I'm still having vision issues indicating I'm hurt. I know when I'm severely hurt but there's nothing indicating the difference between "ok but not healing" and "ok and healing." 

 

Our bodies give us a number of cues to indicate something is wrong with us, the problem is that we aren't experiencing it first hand so we have to attempt to interpret a greyscale effect on the screen and make a guess at how wounded our guy is. In real life there would be a number of symptoms that would tell us the difference between "I feel light headed from blood loss" and "I'm about to black out." This game just gives us a single indicator that in practice just tells us we might as well kill ourselves because this character is screwed. Ultimately a serious wound in this game is no different than death unless you have an extra life in the form of saline or a blood bag compatible with your type, since suicide will get you back on your feet far more effectively than actually treating the wound.

[Trivane 9]

But if you get into melee combat with other players and you survive that then you will have to play with these colors for some time

 

Okay, and? I was injured by a zombie early on, lost a lot of blood because I spawned in an already looted area with no bandages, and barely survived. Did I hit that respawn button or jump off a building? Nope. I soldiered on, made my way up north and looted up some really good gear. Most of this took place at night as well. The entire time I had to listen to my character moan and groan and look at a gray landscape because I couldn't regen health for lack of enough food. I still had a blast exploring new areas and lost all my gear when a new patch went live. Was I mad? Nope.

[PongoZ 127]

it doesn't just flatten the colours, it escalates to limiting your vision detail and distance.

I think its fine, just need to make it a bit more achievable to heal yourself and make it go away

[xInfinityx 44]

Blood regen works now so most of the points in this thread are invalid. (you heal over time now)

 

Saline and blood bag are not necessary to having full blood.

Edited December 21, 2013 by xInfinityx

[Foulcorn 9]

I agree, it's terrible, there needs to be a line between realism and gameplay, player enjoyment that you can't cross. It's the same thing when indicators were going to be changed to audio queues and text in chat (which it is now). There was nothing wrong with the previous indicators. Realism is suppose to enhance gameplay, this color degradation just ruins it.

 

The game isn't real life, there is already things that make it unrealistic, switching from night servers to day servers for example. Respawning aint realistic but we know that giving the players just one life would be idiotic. We understand that there are things that we have to deal with that aren't realistic but for some reason people want to make the game as much as real life as possible although we all know real life is BORING, that's why we play games... ok not really.

Edited December 21, 2013 by Foulcorn

[alleycat 135]

Now loss of peripheral vision sounds interesting! Do you think it could be applied gradually prior to the grey out effect? It would be interesting to see something reflect your character's lack of attentiveness due to exhaustion, hunger, injury or pain before the real effects of blood loss kick in?

As a matter of fact, coding a bar in the HUD showing your level of blood loss is harder than using desaturation.

 

 

 

The game skips out on all severe effect of extrem blood loss, like falling unconscious, not being able to walk straight, blurry vision. Also that grey out only happens on extreme G-forces in rather fast ww2 or jet planes when flying a steep turn and that effect is over shortly after that. Before you get a grey out from blood loss by just walking around you would fall unconscious a few times.

 

 

They could still use visual effects that dont ruin the colors, like radial blur, or heat distortion blur, or using a vignette, or massively expanding the bloom, or contrast

Edited December 21, 2013 by alleycat

[mercules 1290]

 Also that grey out only happens on extreme G-forces in rather fast ww2 or jet planes when flying a steep turn and that effect is over shortly after that. Before you get a grey out from blood loss by just walking around you would fall unconscious a few times.

 

This is untrue. Greyout occurs because of hypoxia of the eyes. Your cones are very sensitive to loss of oxygen(you know the ones that sense color). Low blood pressure which will make you feel dizzy but might not cause you to pass out can cause this very easily. Bleeding out leads to low bloodpressure. Your body shunts bloody to vital organs if it is functioning correctly and your brain is considered one of the most important organs to the body. Brain, heart, and lungs. If the body is doing what it should in those instances(sometimes it can't) then the blood is shunted to those three vital organs. First fingers and toes will go numb, then limbs, and the eyes and ears are lower on the totem pole than the big three. It happens during CERTAIN G-forces, specifically those that force the blood into the lower extremities. The opposite happens when going into a dive or something that can force blood into the brain where  people see red and they can pop vessels in their eyes. So the Greyout is still lack of blood pressure, not G-forces.

Edited December 21, 2013 by Mercules

[winkl_bottom 6]

Again, i have given three pints of blood within 12 hours before, frankly, blood loss sucks. It doesn't hurt, you get sleepy, it's very hard to focus, and your vision only clears for a split second after a blink, and it instantly blurs again. It's like driving sleepy. 

 

My grandmother, a nurse practitioner told me to get the small gatorades, and drink one every 30 minutes along with eating a couple of cookies on the hour. This really helped with the sleepiness and blurred vision and actually gave me some energy. Instead of feeling like youre going to pass out you just feel tired.

 

Gatorade packets, or things with sugar should help with the blurred vision. Color saturation, i don't know as i haven't lost that much blood, but the blurred vision, confirmed, can be fixed with sugar and liquids.

 

I also ate a baked potatoe, butter, and some baked beans before i went to bed to help level out the blood sugar, while giving starch to keep the heart rate from getting too low while you sleep. 

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

How do people have such problems finding something as simple as food and water? I find myself trading food items to maximize inventory space, and I still have plenty to gorge on and get full. When you are fully fed and hydrated, your character will regenerate blood. It's really not that hard to make a recovery.

[flashstep 10]

Couldn't disagree more. It's a good feature of the sim, if you've been shot you're not gonna see the world in such a bright and colourful way dude. Yes the game looks great when you're healthy. Even more reason to stay healthy !

Why do people always relate things they like to being realistic in a ZOMBIE survival game. While were at it,  players should have to sleep every 8 hours for about 8 hours at a time and also they should have to go to the bathroom, get constipated and have to find a laxative before their intestines explode. Also, a player should have to bath in watering holes or they will begin to smell and animated flies will stay on your screen obstructing your view of the game until you clean yourself with water you might find or some baby wipes that are rare drops.

 

 

Might as well for immersion and realism, right?

[Foulcorn 9]

Why do people always relate things they like to being realistic in a ZOMBIE survival game. While were at it,  players should have to sleep every 8 hours for about 8 hours at a time and also they should have to go to the bathroom, get constipated and have to find a laxative before their intestines explode. Also, a player should have to bath in watering holes or they will begin to smell and animated flies will stay on your screen obstructing your view of the game until you clean yourself with water you might find or some baby wipes that are rare drops.

 

 

Might as well for immersion and realism, right?

Also players shouldn't be allowed to log out or they die, and there shouldn't be any respawns because that's unrealistic so once you die you have to buy the game again to play. For the immersion.

Edited December 21, 2013 by Foulcorn

[libertine 351]

I would like it to go too for a few reasons ill list below, but only if another equally invasive thing can replace it, like passing out and/or occasional severe blurriness -something you want/need fixed and want/need fixed NOW. Both sides in this thread are making good points in my opinion though. However, as a solo player, I can't help but think about the fact that people playing with friends have such a huge advantage. They immediately have someone who can heal them at all times, zombie fights are 2+ vs. 1,  they have another pair of eyes scanning the area, they have two angles in a fire fight, they have double the resource gathering capability, once they have transportation they will soon both be heavily armed if they we're already.

 

I don't mind the idea of being extra careful as a solo player, but im noticing so far I its going to be tougher and maybe not much fun because of the forewarning "bullets and things jinggliing" sounds i hear when im around other players. I don't want two or more armed player spreading out to track me down the moment i enter their vicinity. Also, the fact that footstep sounds are so frickin loud while creeping along. When i was younger i noticed i could sprint almost silently when i was a kid.

 

Lastly, too many things seem to be out of my control, like falling off or through geometry i shouldn't and fighting zombies. I can take them most of the time now without getting hurt, but internet lag really makes whats happening very hard to understand and sometimes im not anywhere near the zombie or the zombie isn't even facing me and i get hit and the screen sometimes grays very quickly. It would be different if it were in my control and i could learn from my mistakes. Zombies also seem to chase you based on a simple distance check regardless of any sight check. I could run them off every time avoiding any risk, but i feel like that would be tantamount to a genuine waste of time (if done everytime). I say that as someone who would like the game to be more difficult in certain ways.

 

Oh, one more thing, i notice the screen goes gray when running too long. Should there be a penalty for it? I don't know. But its a video game, and its Chernerus (f'ing huge) and there are ony 40 players on it. I wouldn't penalize people for wanting something to happen. The game is beautiful, but not THAT beautiful. Arguably the time spent running is punishment enough?

[Gator Biggs 22]

Toggleable?

 

 

 

 

no? okay.

[alleycat 135]

 

Had to revive this topic because it is still not fixed and the problem is even worse now.

On this screenshot you can see how the game world looks to my character after surviving 10 melee battles during which my character was hit 7 times. I instantly bandaged after the battles.

As you can see not only the visual fidelity in colors is gone but also there is a constant out of focus pixel shader blur applied which is very tiring to watch.

 

If the game punishes the player with unbearable loss of color and loss of visual focus after inevitable melee combat with wobbly melee combat system then there is clearly something wrong that should be adressed, as in, THROW OUT THE COLOR LOSS AND OUT OF FOCUS BLUR. YOU MIGHT AS WELL INSTANTLY KILL THE PLAYER AFTER SOME MELEE DAMAGE.

 

I mean what is the point? My character in this state will be stuck in colorblind out of focus mode forever.

And punishing players for taking damage by reducing the visual quality of the game is a design choice that is idiotic beyond comprehension. The game interface is literally in the sense of the word literally getting in the way of the player to make a point about "immersing the player".

Just add a bar in the inventory stats that tells me how low the blood is instead of obsessing over "no hud" immersion so hard to the point that it different aspects of the GFX rendering are used against the player to punish him and the game itself by making it look crappy.

Edited January 14, 2014 by alleycat

[Ineedscoffee 464]

Far as I'm concerned, it needs to stay. And you didn't "have" to revive this topic. You didn't get the support you wanted for a reason.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Ineedscoffee

[tomroadrunner 69]

So you guys are complaining about simulation aspects of the game when you know that this is built off of one of the most dry military sims ever?

 

(and I mean "dry" in the best way possible)

 

I'd actually love to see more effects of low blood, like a bit of staggering, and the distant "shimmers" that you get in situations like that (unfortunately have some first person experience with this). Dehydration/blood loss play horrible tricks on your brain.

[wgaf 251]

No, it doesn't have to go. 

 

In fact, it has to stay. 

 

If you don't like the way it looks when you've lost blood, then dont lose any blood. 

 

Imagine that! 

[Phantasm (DayZ) 57]

Desauration and bluriness are a part of the game.  They need to stay in and they WILL stay in.  Dean has stated numerous times this is done to give your character a sense of realism rather then have alot of different little indicator bars to manage, which I couldn't agree with more.  IRL you don't have little indicator bars, and Dean never liked the indicator bars in the mod.  This is a pretty core feature of the stand alone and I love it.

 

It is fine as is

Edited January 14, 2014 by Phantasm

[Odysseus (DayZ) 43]

I would also like to see the desaturation toned down until significant illness/injury. DayZ is so pretty, the first five minutes of life.

[Al Bobo 53]

Don't get shot. I spend 90% of my game time enjoying nice graphics and the last 10% frantically looking for food/saline/blood. It's ok.

[alleycat 135]

All of you, you do not get it.

I followed this guide on how to heal that effect:

http://dayz.gamepedia.com/Blood

 

 

So I hate 1.5 bags of rice and drank 5 sodas. Eventually my color started coming back but, and this is the crowning achievement of stupidity among very stupid design flaws in this game:

The blur was still there:

 

 

 

 

 

If you look at the second video, it says that the player screen will still stay blurry even after the color has come back until full healed. This means even though I still had my color back, I am still stuck in out of focus land, probably for hours. And for those who lack the capacity to comprehend how bad it is:

 

Being severly wounded shortly before the blur sets in is actually preferable over "healing" because the healing actually induces a blur effect. And I rather watch a grey screen and be able to navigate the world than have colors and not be able to see things in the distance.

 

So if you are so gravely wounded that you are in blur state and then you need to endure blur for the entire healing procedure (which might never complete because you are still going to run around and eventually get attacked by zombies) Then you might as well skip the whole wounding mechanisms and simply kill the player after the blur sets in. Because a respawn with actual colors and clear vision is way more fun.

 

 

CONSTANT OUT OF FOCUS = TIRING FOR YOUR EYES

This is not about immersion or realism, this is idiotic abuse of pixel shader blur. If immersion in this game is about stumbling around with blurry vision than I rather have kill streaks and UAV drones. They are realistic too and at least their optical zoom can adjust the blur.

 

 

 

 

No, it doesn't have to go. 

 

In fact, it has to stay. 

 

If you don't like the way it looks when you've lost blood, then dont lose any blood. 

 

Imagine that! 

 

Your opinion is so flawed and unimformed I am going to refer you to simply reading my posts again until you get it.

Edited January 14, 2014 by alleycat