m4 is really inaccurate.

[mtuckner 46]

Effective range is generally the distance that the operator of the weapon can be expected to hit a target at. How effective that round is at a particular range depends on the weight of the round in grains and the velocity in feet per second. An M4 with the 14.5" barrel loses quite a bit of effectiveness as its velocity drops and relies heavily on fragmentation that occurs with high velocity impacts. At slower speeds the round just punctures through and fails to fragment leaving a small wound channel.

 

The USMC uses the M16 to qualify up to 500m prone (which I can hit 10/10 irons on a good day), and there is a reason the Army only qualifies at 300m with the M4. If the weapon is fired perfectly it would be more accurate than in the game, but I believe that Dean and company are trying to simulate outcomes of what would happen, which is untrained civilians shooting weapons and jerking the trigger, with ragged breathe, with a poor firing position.

 

I agree with their approach. Now anyone who has a rifle can't use it to pick off folks far out and makes the outcomes more interesting, you have to get in close to kill someone with the weapon - as would a guy who uses it. Learn the weapon and understand your limitations and position yourself accordingly for the assault.

Edited December 21, 2013 by SuperTuck

[gfx 1]

i been scavenging for pristine parts and modified parts for the m4 3days now, and finally got i guess the best parts for it all prestine so i was excited to go shootin shit up, so i tried it out on the north airfield and seriously wtf. its pretty sad... so i blamed the bad aim on the weather cos the clouds were moving really fast so i assumed it was some new thing in the game cos modern rifles do shoot pretty accurate.
but i guess its a common thing, i hope they fix that stuff fast. no wonder no one been able to kill me yet. i been shot at quite few times while i was scavenging for parts in military bases

[strngplyr 26]

you must be in the army, im talking marines buddy. we all know armys max distance in training in bootcamp is 300m steel sillouhette targets and not even scored as in a target ring. In the USMC we train up to 500m out prone and then 300m standing kneel prone, 200m standing kneel prone, and 100m standing kneel. many other marines have seen other marines, if not themselves hit targets as far away as 300m standing and 500m prone. if you were in my shoes and you qualified expert you would see many others do as well and if not literally the same, but you are from the army so i can understand u dont know how to shoot shit. 

 

You know that Marines and Army don't actually compete against each other, right? People like you are why Marines are mocked by every other branch of the military for being idiots.

 

And yes, while you're correct about only "training" out to 300m, every unit I've ever been a part of has done 500m "recreational" shooting competitions using both iron sights and cco's. While we're only graded at 300m, you'd be hard pressed to find though without a lot of experience shooting further.

 

I also know several Marines who can't hit the broad side of a barn. It works both ways. Assuming noone in the army can shoot is just the same as assuming every marine you know is an expert marksman. They're both incredibly incorrect statements. 

[strngplyr 26]

you must be talking about yards.... anyway i did some youtube search didnt find any video of a guy shooting at 500m with a m4a1... Oh so i must be shit? the great american humbleness ;)

 

We use meters in the military.

[mtuckner 46]

You know that Marines and Army don't actually compete against each other, right? People like you are why Marines are mocked by every other branch of the military for being idiots.

 

And yes, while you're correct about only "training" out to 300m, every unit I've ever been a part of has done 500m "recreational" shooting competitions using both iron sights and cco's. While we're only graded at 300m, you'd be hard pressed to find though without a lot of experience shooting further.

 

I also know several Marines who can't hit the broad side of a barn. It works both ways. Assuming noone in the army can shoot is just the same as assuming every marine you know is an expert marksman. They're both incredibly incorrect statements. 

 

LOOOOOL

[Shadyfizzle 80]

don't worry, after 10 kills you unlock a laser sight

[SFRGaming 718]

in my country Effective range is the range where you can hit 10/10 shots with maximum 12mm dispersion, prone with steel sights i dont know what you mean 5.56 bullet can kill at 2000m is that effective range?

That might just be a slang term from where you are from. When talking guns, effective range is universal. It basically means how far will the round go before it reaches a point in it's decreasing velocity that it losses the ability to project lethal damage to a target.

[Bororm 1156]

I think it should be adjusted, I don't like arbitrary stats/numbers to add randomness to shooting in games.  The gun should shoot where you point it, not spit out bullets sideways because of some variable.  To compensate for it, and make it not an easy mode laser there should be added recoil and of course breathing etc fucking up the aim.  But those are things you should be able to compensate for.  The lack of right click zooming on anything but the long range scope already makes fights shorter range.  There should be purpose to scopes like the acog etc.

 

The people saying a random person picking up a gun won't be able to hit anything, that isn't because the gun is magically shooting bullets out sideways, it's because the person doesn't know how to use the gun.  Simulate that, not "/roll 1-100 did I land the shot where I aimed?"

 

This is the difference between having a shooting game based off "skill" vs randomness/luck.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Bororm

[tklama 5]

It is not just the M4... I shot my long range scope Mosin at a guy some 400 meters away. I was aiming slightly to the right as most of the time my bullets seem to sway left. The shot landed like 5 meters to the left of him.... Ofc he instantly disconnected thereafter. I took a couple of more hots at the same place, and it was just hitting all around the place. 

 

There is currently no way to get an accurate first shot. If you miss (which you will, because the bullets fly totally randomly), the person just disconnects

[-Gews- 7443]

It's fine! These are some crappy civilians who have no idea how to handle a weapon well.

I believe that Dean and company are trying to simulate outcomes of what would happen, which is untrained civilians shooting weapons and jerking the trigger, with ragged breathe, with a poor firing position.

Nope!

Because the Mosin is 40 times as accurate.

You'd expect an untrained civilian who can't handle a light, soft-kicking AR would do worse with a long, heavy, loud Mosin which is over 80 years old and has likely been poorly maintained.

[gibonez 3633]

Like Gews posted on the first page http://feedback.dayzgame.com/view.php?id=871

 

"M4 has 0.1 dispersion compared to 0.00175 in ARMA2."

So the number is waaaaay off now. Just try to shoot at 200m with acog and you see the effect. Bullets with that dispersion number spread a lot. So it's a bug.

 

Probably not a bug but a feature.

 

It would reduce the m4s role to a medium to close range weapon, if you want long range accurate shots you use a precision firearm. Would limit the jack of all trades guns from the mod.

[JESUSARIUS REX (DayZ) 163]

I don't like having a huge learning curve for marksmanship, as i feel it doesn't represent me, or reality. The first time i ever shot a .30-06, i nailed a crow at 100 yards, in a 25 mph wind, on about my 8th to 10th round EVER. The next day, i went out and shot my first doe, and it was a clean shot. Only put about 15 round down range with a .30-06 and 5 with a .270 the day before. I feel shooting your first animal would be similar to the adrenaline you feel shooting a zombie ( of course a zombie/person would be much much harder to focus on and would have your heart pumping even more). I'm not saying a hunting rifle is the same as an assault rifle, and i do realize a AR is harder to shoot. All I'm saying is guns are made for ease of use. A learning curve is really dumb IMHO, as it doesn't take long to become a fairly accurate shot, and shooting of 100 bullets to practice is really just unnecessary in a game. I would ok with a small learning curve, a big one? no.

 

Edit: I feel it would be ok to natural reduce accuracy a bit, as we are not talking about trained soldiers anymore. But the accuracy I'm reading about makes no sense at all.

Edited December 22, 2013 by JESUSARIUS REX

[ZlobaRUS54 441]

Nope!

Because the Mosin is 40 times as accurate.

You'd expect an untrained civilian who can't handle a light, soft-kicking AR would do worse with a long, heavy, loud Mosin which is over 80 years old and has likely been poorly maintained.

 

No, Mosin is not a military spawn, according to the game lore the Mosins you find are surplus weapons owned by civilians, so its assumed people of Chernorus have several generations of experience handling them. 

 

And why would they be poorly maintained? Chernorussians use them for hunting and likely kept them in excellent condition.

Edited December 22, 2013 by ZlobaRUS54

[raynor009 204]

Agreed the M4 is a piece of shit in DayZ SA. It does poor damage and has bad acuracy. It needs to be improved ASAP as it's the only machine gun available atm.

[-Gews- 7443]

No, Mosin is not a military spawn, according to the game lore the Mosins you find are surplus weapons owned by civilians, so its assumed people of Chernorus have several generations of experience handling them.

No no no no no

If that was the case, I suppose grandpappy's double-barreled shotgun should have sniper-like accuracy since they've probably been using them since the things first came out back in the days of flintlocks, no?

If you can shoot well with a Mosin you won't be 40 times worse with an M4A1 :rolleyes:

[ZlobaRUS54 441]

No no no no no

If that was the case, I suppose grandpappy's double-barreled shotgun should have sniper-like accuracy since they've probably been using them since the things first came out back in the days of flintlocks, no?

If you can shoot well with a Mosin you won't be 40 times worse with an M4A1 :rolleyes:

 

Battle rifles like Mosin are tons more accurate then assault carbines, that's common knowledge. There is a reason so many were converted to sniper rifles during the world wars and later.

[Mao Zedong 48]

Battle rifles like Mosin are tons more accurate then assault carbines, that's common knowledge. There is a reason so many were converted to sniper rifles during the world wars and later.

 

Mosins are pure shit past 600 meters (i have a video I'll post later). At 800 every time i aim at the chest of this guy (went in sitting position to mock my sniping) it will go to the left, right, above or below, in complete randomness. Compensating for the direction of the first shot does nothing because.. well.. it's simply fucking random.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Mao Zedong

[foamninja 77]

you must be in the army, im talking marines buddy. we all know armys max distance in training in bootcamp is 300m steel sillouhette targets and not even scored as in a target ring. In the USMC we train up to 500m out prone and then 300m standing kneel prone, 200m standing kneel prone, and 100m standing kneel. many other marines have seen other marines, if not themselves hit targets as far away as 300m standing and 500m prone. if you were in my shoes and you qualified expert you would see many others do as well and if not literally the same, but you are from the army so i can understand u dont know how to shoot shit.

So here we go with the Marine Ego. Please do tell us? Are you really a female? Are you part of the 3 that made it into the infantry? Have you seen combat on a day to day basis? I'm going to say you haven't. Good for you! You can shoot a target that stands close to still. Yes you fire farther targets, whoopdee god damn doo. Did you know the Army can take the USMC Scout Sniper school? It's called cross military training. Because I have and I was Army, I took it at MCBH in Konhohe HI. I passed with flying colors, you see the way you call people that can't "shoot worth shit" as ALL Army. Well kindly go fuck yourself. This is why other branches hold nearly no respect for Marines. Because assholes like you think you are better than everyone else. I know some Marine DI's and they are my friends to an alright extent. They told me that if I ever seen a Marine with an Ego that goes so far up their own ass that they can't smell the BS anymore. They have a complex that can't be helped and they bring a bad name to REAL and TRUE Marines (also known as a person that has the balls to respect anyone in the military no matter what branch). So get off your USMC high horse and step down to the real and game world. We don't care about your "Expert" badge, that you keep throwing up in our faces, as much as you could care about my Sniper Training.

[-Gews- 7443]

Battle rifles like Mosin are tons more accurate then assault carbines, that's common knowledge.

 

 

Nope! Doesn't work that way.

 

Go buy a random Mosin for $120, then try out some AR-15s. Compare groups from both and come back.

 

 

There is a reason so many were converted to sniper rifles during the world wars and later.

 

Yes, because that was the standard rifle during the World Wars, and they picked out the best ones. :rolleyes:

[cataclyststa 8]

300-400m is a really far shot with an m4, that's why they added the Mosin.

[kingochaos 131]

Yea... totally with gews on the mosin argument... rifles wear their bores, an old rifle has had a lot o rounds go through, and will not shoot tight groups, short o replacing the barrel... a 5.56 i would NOT call a great round past 300m... any wind past there and theyre all over the show, and dropping off fast.

[TankyWanky 18]

Only prone and with deployed bipod you can shoot pretty accurate...as in real life!

[St. Jimmy 1631]

Probably not a bug but a feature.

 

It would reduce the m4s role to a medium to close range weapon, if you want long range accurate shots you use a precision firearm. Would limit the jack of all trades guns from the mod.

DayZ tries to simulate many things like Arma and some things even better and then giving that ridiculous dispersion for M4 wouldn't have any sense. You really need to try couple mags to see how bad it is. That can't be a feature. Wind and realistic dispersion values are the things and not some artificial limitation. I really trust Bohemia in this.

[jadee 8]

You guys just have to aim properly, played a lot of Arma2/3 and hitting a standing Z at 500m with the M4 took me two shots, at ~300m I've always hit on the first shot. Running players at around 200m with around 2-5 shots. My M4 has an ACOG and is fully pristine except the bipod is badly damaged. 

 

1. calm down after running

2. prone if possible

3. hold you breath (look for the key in the options)

4. learn how to use the sight you are using (ACOG 

)

5. chill the fuck out

6. hit target

[beardedcap 22]

It is pretty bad, I ran into two assholes up north earlier today and unloaded like 30 rounds into them(I'm sure my aiming wasn't perfect because it was pretty frantic) and hit the mother fucker like once.  I've also shot a few zombies with it aiming down the sights and the accuracy is pretty damn bad even standing still. Definitely needs to be changed.