December Round-up: ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ GIVE SA

[JonySK 60]

And how have you suffered because of Rocket's inability to give you a solid release date? How exactly have you, tangibly, been affected by this?

 

Full transparency =/= a release date. Transparency, however, includes being up-front when your assessments are no longer accurate. Which Rocket has been.

I have'nt suffered at all. Have you??? It would be nice to know if they have any plans for a release this year or not. That is all. Because they must have a plan, right??

[AnarchyBrownies 1383]

Upset, no way. I just want an honest answer from Rocket about a release this year or not. Its not that hard. He mus thave some clue about the progression and he should be able to make an educated guess if its going to be released this year or not.

 

Alright, fair enough. All I can say is I'm 99.9% sure they have internal release dates and they've missed those plenty of times. Sometimes when something gets fixed, it breaks something else. Or a small problem ends up having a more complicated solution than previously thought. Refer to Rocket's posts in the "Announcements" section where he explains this.

 

Also, is there a reason that whether or not it comes out this year matters? Nothing special happens on December 31st or January 1st that would impact the game.

 

EDIT: They've done the bulk of the work on the foundational programming and have hit their goals for server performance. They still have a lot of work to do to keep improving this but that part is good enough for release. I don't know if you saw the stream today, but they're trying to get rid of bugs like the "doppelganger" and other things that sort of break the game. Again, I'd urge you to read Rocket's latest update in the announcements section.

Edited December 8, 2013 by AnarchyBrownies

[St. Jimmy 1631]

"Soon! Soon! Soon! Very soon!"

-rocket2guns

 

03:18:48

 

:ph34r:

[JonySK 60]

Alright, fair enough. All I can say is I'm 99.9% sure they have internal release dates and they've missed those plenty of times. Sometimes when something gets fixed, it breaks something else. Or a small problem ends up having a more complicated solution than previously thought. Refer to Rocket's posts in the "Announcements" section where he explains this.

 

Also, is there a reason that whether or not it comes out this year matters? Nothing special happens on December 31st or January 1st that would impact the game.

No, for me it does'nt matter if it comes out this year or in the next 10 years. What matters is that Rocket says it probably won't be out the next 10 years, instead of giving the impression that the alpha is "right around the corner" as he have been doing all year.

[oompah 58]

I just think they want the early access release out as soon as possible.  "as soon as possible" being hard to define as core parts of the game are a work in progress.  relax, go get some fresh air, when they decide it's good enough for an early access release it will be out - good lord how many more people are going to insist on a hard and fast date - THEY DON'T KNOW

[Katana67 2907]

No, for me it does'nt matter if it comes out this year or in the next 10 years. What matters is that Rocket says it probably won't be out the next 10 years, instead of giving the impression that the alpha is "right around the corner" as he have been doing all year.

 

So you want him to estimate a date for release? I'm confused. Isn't that what you're faulting him for? Estimating dates and then having to go back on that because his assessments weren't accurate (and thus "leading" the community)?

[oompah 58]

oh and btw - the game looks freakin' awesome in that last stream solid work boys

[AnarchyBrownies 1383]

No, for me it does'nt matter if it comes out this year or in the next 10 years. What matters is that Rocket says it probably won't be out the next 10 years, instead of giving the impression that the alpha is "right around the corner" as he have been doing all year.

 

I can only think of one time where I legitimately thought it would be out soon and that was back in June or July when he said he couldn't imagine the game not being out before some event in August.I can't remember the event. Some gaming convention I think. That was before the whole network bubble thing. Once they explained they decided to head in that direction and that it would take a while I've never had any real expectations for release and I never felt like he has given any. As St. Jimmy just posted, today he emphasized very soon, and I'm optimistic about that, but I also realize that there are plenty of reasons that a delay could happen.

 

I think it's unrealistic to think we'll have to wait for another six months even. My guess would be within a few weeks. I don't see it as being a case where it's either in whatever window Rocket publicly gives us or it's 10 years.

[JonySK 60]

So you want him to estimate a date for release? I'm confused. Isn't that what you're faulting him for? Estimating dates and then having to go back on that because his assessments weren't accurate (and thus "leading" the community)?

I just want him to say if it gets released this year or not. That should'nt be too hard for Rocket. What I am faulting him for is that he give the impression that the alpha release is "right around the corner". Like when he said he is taking a break from the forums to work on the "final lap" on the development.

[AnarchyBrownies 1383]

I just want him to say if it gets released this year or not. That should'nt be too hard for Rocket. What I am faulting him for is that he give the impression that the alpha release is "right around the corner". Like when he said he is taking a break from the forums to work on the "final lap" on the development.

 

Ah see now we're getting into personal definitions of soon. They made a ton of progress in the "final lap" and we're still within that time frame and now it looks as though it's imminent. So he's perhaps correctly given that impression if that's what you took it as. He took a small break from public communication (certainly didn't disappear) for a push but there was also no promise of what was on the other end of that push. What if they had a push and at the end of it they were nowhere near their goals? Instead they had a lot of success so we're lucky. But you're getting these impressions based on personal expectations I feel. Or do you disagree?

[Katana67 2907]

I just want him to say if it gets released this year or not. That should'nt be too hard for Rocket. What I am faulting him for is that he give the impression that the alpha release is "right around the corner". Like when he said he is taking a break from the forums to work on the "final lap" on the development.

 

He's said countless times that he's not willing to comment on a release timeframe though. It's bitten him in the ass at least twice (December 2012 and June 2013). So why would he change now?

 

I'm willing to bet that he isn't sure of whether it'll be out in 2013 or 2014 simply given the brevity of time left until 2014. So why would he risk making an inaccurate call again? Something could arise before then, an unanticipated occurance, that would prevent an otherwise expedient launch from occurring in 2013. So why would he speculate when circumstance could prove his assessment wrong again?

 

Saying that he's been teasing us all year isn't accurate. He explicitly stopped estimating release dates in June.

 

Release has always been contingent upon milestones and system development. Looking at it from a "when is it going to be out?" perspective isn't helpful. Looking at it from a "what needs to happen for it to be out?" perspective is more helpful. Rocket's statements of "final laps" are still contingent upon success and the achieving of certain objectives (i.e. a playable alpha, along with certain system-specific aspects).

 

It's not as if he can just push a button to release it, and is holding his finger over the button teasing us. There are testing priorities which need to be fulfilled before a release can occur.

Edited December 8, 2013 by Katana67

[JonySK 60]

I can only think of one time where I legitimately thought it would be out soon and that was back in June or July when he said he couldn't imagine the game not being out before some event in August.I can't remember the event. Some gaming convention I think. That was before the whole network bubble thing. Once they explained they decided to head in that direction and that it would take a while I've never had any real expectations for release and I never felt like he has given any. As St. Jimmy just posted, today he emphasized very soon, and I'm optimistic about that, but I also realize that there are plenty of reasons that a delay could happen.

 

I think it's unrealistic to think we'll have to wait for another six months even. My guess would be within a few weeks. I don't see it as being a case where it's either in whatever window Rocket publicly gives us or it's 10 years.

Yeah. Very soon. Whats Rockets definition of very soon? This year or in 5 years. Rocket just did it again.

[Katana67 2907]

I love how Rocket is all gung-ho about including things to discourage KOS in standalone, yet every person they come across in the stream... they just grease outright no questions asked. Priceless. :P

[JonySK 60]

He's said countless times that he's not willing to comment on a release timeframe though. It's bitten him in the ass at least twice (December 2012 and June 2013). So why would he change now?

 

I'm willing to bet that he isn't sure of whether it'll be out in 2013 or 2014 simply given the brevity of time left until 2014. So why would he risk making an inaccurate call again? Something could arise before then, an unanticipated occurance, that would prevent an otherwise expedient launch from occurring in 2013. So why would he speculate when circumstance could prove his assessment wrong again?

 

Saying that he's been teasing us all year isn't accurate. He explicitly stopped estimating release dates in June.

 

Release has always been contingent upon milestones and system development. Looking at it from a "when is it going to be out?" perspective isn't helpful. Looking at it from a "what needs to happen for it to be out?" is more helpful. Rocket's statements of "final laps" are still contingent upon success and the achieving of certain objectives (i.e. a playable alpha, along with certain system-specific aspects).

 

It's not as if he can just push a button to release it, and is holding his finger over the button teasing us. There are testing priorities which need to be fulfilled before a release can occur.

Yes. All that uncertainty have'nt made him say: "Sorry guys, the alpha won't be out in a long time.There is too much work to be done". 

[Katana67 2907]

Yes. All that uncertainty have'nt made him say: "Sorry guys, the alpha won't be out in a long time.There is too much work to be done". 

 

So now you're faulting him for not saying that it won't be released promptly? I don't get your grievance. You say you want him to comment on or pin down a release date (i.e. 2013 or 2014). Yet you fault him for potentially being misleading in having some sense of imminence with regard to the release? Which one is it? Do you want him to not comment on it, or do you want him to comment on it (even if his comment may be proven wrong by circumstance, as has happened in the past)?

[AnarchyBrownies 1383]

Yeah. Very soon. Whats Rockets definition of very soon? This year or in 5 years. Rocket just did it again.

 

If you have no faith then I really think you should just bail from the game.

 

"Did it again." What is your point in this statement? So let's say he's delayed it twice after giving false hope- once in 2012 when he decided to create a whole new project (I don't even count this time), and again in June 2013 when they decided to develop the network bubble. Are these not perfectly acceptable and advisable changes to make? I think if someone is looking at this reasonably and from a position of wanting the game to be great, they'll see these delays as having excellent and legitimate reasons. It's not like they're making predictions for what they're currently working on and then saying "it turns out this will take us 8 months longer." Both times they've made significant and very important changes to take the game in a new and better direction. These changes affect the way the game will run at its core and allow development to continue.

 

I'm not worried about soon in this case because they are so far into testing their whole newly constructed engine architecture. It would be difficult to have to start something huge from scratch now. Any delays now are more likely to be the result of glitches that make the game unplayable. Those glitches do exist but there hasn't been any indication at this point that they're worried about being able to fix them.

 

Again, I always leave wiggle room for the unforeseen and for things that I don't understand. I'm not a programmer, I've never developed a game, so there are plenty of things about the process I'll never know about. But this "soon" is different in how far along they are with the architecture and scope of testing.

Edited December 8, 2013 by AnarchyBrownies

[JonySK 60]

So now you're faulting him for not saying that it won't be released promptly? I don't get your grievance. You say you want him to comment on or pin down a release date (i.e. 2013 or 2014). Yet you fault him for potentially being misleading in having some sense of imminence with regard to the release? Which one is it? Do you want him to not comment on it, or do you want him to comment on it (even if his comment may be proven wrong by circumstance, as has happened in the past)?

I just want him to say yes it will be out this year or no it will not be put this year. And not hopefully as he said on reddit. That is my point. He is giving the impression that the release is SOON as he did early summer, and after that he did'nt say, sorry it won't be out in a long time. He MUST have known that, but instead he gives the impression that the release is soon.

[AnarchyBrownies 1383]

I just want him to say yes it will be out this year or no it will not be put this year. And not hopefully as he said on reddit. That is my point. He is giving the impression that the release is SOON as he did early summer, and after that he did'nt say, sorry it won't be out in a long time. He MUST have known that, but instead he gives the impression that the release is soon.

 

I thought everyone knew that the network bubble was a big task that was going to take a while. Never did I think that that piece of development was going to take a few weeks. In fact afterwards I redownloaded the mod (I hadn't played it in months), stopped coming to this part of the forums so much, and forgot about the standalone for a while.

[puppetworx 474]

Its funny, whoever is asking the questions seems to think the game is a sniper simulation.

 

Dyslexci Sacriel pisses me off, every question he asks he elaborates on for 5 minutes, STFU.

 

BTW this site gives you links to the flv files on twitch. I get a lot of start-stopping on pre-recorded twitch videos for some reason so for me it's much faster downloading them with a download manager then watching them than it is watching it streamed.

Edited December 8, 2013 by puppetworx

[Katana67 2907]

I just want him to say yes it will be out this year or no it will not be put this year. And not hopefully as he said on reddit. That is my point. He is giving the impression that the release is SOON as he did early summer, and after that he did'nt say, sorry it won't be out in a long time. He MUST have known that, but instead he gives the impression that the release is soon.

 

The network bubble problem wasn't fixed by the June deadline he set (which wasn't really a deadline for release if one looks back at it). Pretty sure it was the network bubble then still. People had a shit fit, so he decided that he was no longer going to comment on potential timeframes for release. It's not a question of whether he knows the release timeframe or not, it's a question of it meeting criteria for release.

 

My point is that, when he gives rough estimates or deadlines or even vague timeframes and then doesn't meet them, it's far more damaging than just always thinking release is over the horizon.

 

I will say no more. Gone on far too long. Let's get back to fawning over the stream, shall we?

[JonySK 60]

I thought everyone knew that the network bubble was a big task that was going to take a while. Never did I think that that piece of development was going to take a few weeks. In fact afterwards I redownloaded the mod (I hadn't played it in months), stopped coming to this part of the forums so much, and forgot about the standalone for a while.

Yea, I think everybody knew the network bubble was a big task and would take a while to fix it. Its just too bad Rocket never said it would be and it would take a long time do fix it. 

[Katana67 2907]

With regard to the whole "damage" or "condition" of items insofar as the discussion of "experience" is concerned (i.e. if you use a bandage for the first time, you maybe won't do a good job. Do it enough and you'll get good at it), I think there might be a cool feature to be explored here.

 

It might place too much of a burden on the items themselves, but perhaps a "weathering" attribute should be attached to the items. This could apply to several uses.

 

- It would distinguish between certain items without impinging on their overall "condition". So, for instance, you could keep your Mosin maintained for six months, get attached to it and become proficient with it, but it would gradually acquire a "weathered" texture. What I'd like not to see is "magic repairs", whereby if you repair a broken rifle from 20% to 100%, it doesn't automatically change appearance to a brand new weapon.

 

- Said weathering could give the player a visual cue as to how far he/she has progressed with regard to "experience" with a particular item. Meaning that if your M4A1 acquires a "weathered" texture, it would indicate that you've spent X amount of time with said individual weapon to gain proficiency. Rather than just being "Oh dayum, I can reload fast all of a sudden!"

 

- A similar concept could be applied to stances, whereby one starts out looking fairly "civilian" but gradually through use one acquires more appropriate shooting stances.

 

Perhaps weathering isn't the correct term, but I think this might be a good way of exploring plausible visual cues to indicate gradual proficiency.

 

I get that "brand new" items should be included. But as I use these items, I'd like them to look used without directly impinging on their usefulness (i.e. damage/condition).

Edited December 8, 2013 by Katana67

[Mazzar 231]

I dont like how durability is showing up.

 

It honestly seems like after 2-3 uses the item degrades, which is just not a joy factor in the game, especially since it effects performance, i would like to see durability not be a big factor and for items to last in top quality for a long while, not for an hour (speculation)

 

 

Edit: Durability based on experience, resulting increased profiency is a cool "leveling up" idea, as long as durability become an extremely minor factor.

Edited December 8, 2013 by Mazzar

[SalamanderAnder (DayZ) 1747]

Man, I always miss the twitch streams. Epoch had me totally preoccupied. Will it be uploaded at some point you think?

[ZlobaRUS54 441]

Yea, I think everybody knew the network bubble was a big task and would take a while to fix it. Its just too bad Rocket never said it would be and it would take a long time do fix it. 

 

I think Rocket is a man of moral integrity and he has never lied to us intentionally. it's just anything he says should have "..unless something unexpected happens" clause added to it. And with this project the  unexpected happens with persistent periodicity.   It does still boggle my mind how badly he understated the amount of time required in June, well into the second iteration of the project he thought the Release was just around the corner.  And he are we are, half a year later.

Edited December 8, 2013 by ZlobaRUS54