Character Value - skillsystem, statistic...

[wild_man 4442]

Do you know why we humans actually are where we are right now? It is not because we are "fit" but because we skilled ourselfs, because we learned things. It is not the health that distinguishes us from the animals, it is our skills.

 

 

nobody talk about animals :huh:

 

I talk about man Vs man ;)

[Wayze 549]

nobody talk about animals :huh:

 

I talk about man Vs man ;)

There is no difference. Do you think a guy having muscles and running faster is having a huge advantage in a survival apocalypse?

In the apocalypse it is about the skills you achieve, the intelligence. Having muscles and running faster sure will help you, but it isn't really that important.

[wild_man 4442]

There is no difference. Do you think a guy having muscles and running faster is having a huge advantage in a survival apocalypse?

 

 

 

FFF*cking YES!!!! I think this :D

 

brain also but player have brain already, is where dayz adventure happen :thumbsup:

[BelMarduk 169]

I like the idea of a skill system but if and ONLY IF it is completely 'hidden'. What I mean is this... Practice does NOT make perfect. perfect practice makes perfect. So yah, the more you repair a vehicle the better you get at repair. A 'failed' repair attempt should destroy the parts involved. but a failed repair attempt will not increase your skill to have a better attempt next time. Maybe the first 20 'repairs' (noob lvl) will increase your skill, but after that only successful attempts raise level. All the areas mentioned and maybe a few more could/should have skill points/levels in game (ala Origins). but I stress NEVER should this ever be known/quantified/controlled by any player ever. No spending points! No lvl up que/choice etc. Why? (rhetorical question here)How many people know someone that just thinks they are the cats ass at something, legends in their own minds as it were, but just suck really bad?

[joe_mcentire 2074]

FFF*cking YES!!!! I think this :D

 

brain also but player have brain already, is where dayz adventure happen :thumbsup:

because of the radical diet and the scarce food you would find it would be highly unlikely to maintain a "massively" muscular stature. more muscle means you would need more energy to power your muscles means you would need more food to gather :/

Edited September 15, 2013 by joe_mcentire

[joe_mcentire 2074]

I like the idea of a skill system but if and ONLY IF it is completely 'hidden'. What I mean is this... Practice does NOT make perfect. perfect practice makes perfect.

very nice :) heard this one the first time  :beans:

 

one thing you can easily take into account when some may say "but you could exploit...level your way...etc.."

simply add time and noise! those two parameters would allow to prevent grinding to a very large extent.

Edited September 15, 2013 by joe_mcentire

[Wayze 549]

because of the radical diet and the scarce food you would find it would be highly unlikely to maintain a "massively" muscular stature. more muscle means you would need more energy to power your muscles means you would need more food to gather :/

Right, why are we even talking about this? In DayZ it should be hard to survive, not hard to maintain a big bisceps. ^^

 

 

I like the idea of a skill system but if and ONLY IF it is completely 'hidden'. What I mean is this... Practice does NOT make perfect. perfect practice makes perfect. So yah, the more you repair a vehicle the better you get at repair. A 'failed' repair attempt should destroy the parts involved. but a failed repair attempt will not increase your skill to have a better attempt next time. Maybe the first 20 'repairs' (noob lvl) will increase your skill, but after that only successful attempts raise level. All the areas mentioned and maybe a few more could/should have skill points/levels in game (ala Origins). but I stress NEVER should this ever be known/quantified/controlled by any player ever. No spending points! No lvl up que/choice etc. Why? (rhetorical question here)How many people know someone that just thinks they are the cats ass at something, legends in their own minds as it were, but just suck really bad?

I think it would be to hard like that. If you fail you learn something, maybe you do not learn as much as before but you learn a bit, don't you? If you do something wrong, you don't do it again. It's like you are saying "Never learn from your mistakes!", but actually mistakes are the things you learn the most of.

 

Also, it would kind of be very, probably too, frustrating if you lose a part and additionally to that do not learn anything.

Edited September 15, 2013 by Wayze

[wild_man 4442]

because of the radical diet and the scarce food you would find it would be highly unlikely to maintain a "massively" muscular stature. more muscle means you would need more energy to power your muscles means you would need more food to gather :/

 

I don't talk about Arnold Schwarzenegger walking in cherno  :D

 

I talk about subtle but important different thing with guy who eat good way, push body and survive this way 3 days (in game) compare with guy washing on beach after ship crash on rocks who don't know what happen.

[OfficerRaymond 2067]

Yes, at first I thought also about something like that. But keep in mind, if what you lose is not very valuable you won't care. If it is just doing something faster, it is not something special. Sure, I can gut a animal faster, but I don't need that right? I can do it slowly, it won't hurt. I can fix something slowing, there is enough time, especially in DayZ.

 

Like the healthsystem KoS was talking about, I don't think that doing something faster is enough to create a real value for a character. I still will shoot everyone on sight, why wouldn't I? At best the other guy could repair a heli faster than me, but I can do it alone.

 

You know what I mean? I think this should be really testet out in the alpha, because that is what an alpha is for. Test a view ways and look what works best.

This may be true, but a attribute system is just much too immersion breaking. Whatever it is has to be hidden.

 

And either way, there are going to people that don't take advantage of it. The ones that don't care and want to troll/PvP. Why ruin the immersion for the hardcore fans?

[joe_mcentire 2074]

Right, why are we even talking about this? In DayZ it should be hard to survive, not hard to maintain a big bisceps. ^^

 

 

I think it would be to hard like that. If you fail you learn something, maybe you do not learn as much as before but you learn a bit, don't you? If you do something wrong, you don't do it again. It's like you are saying "Never learn from your mistakes!", but actually mistakes are the things you learn the most of.

 

Also, it would kind of be very, probably too, frustrating if you lose a part and additionally to that do not learn anything.

or...make learning dependent to your overall health. i doubt you could learn much when you can't concentrate because you caught a fever..there you go: combine KOS idea and the skill idea ;)

[joe_mcentire 2074]

This may be true, but a attribute system is just much too immersion breaking. Whatever it is has to be hidden.

 

And either way, there are going to people that don't take advantage of it. The ones that don't care and want to troll/PvP. Why ruin the immersion for the hardcore fans?

if i may approx. quote Dean "think about what it brings to the game not the other way round"

[applejaxc 2500]

That's because level 4 is easy to get. That should at least be level six.

Well what if I'm playing as a Paladin?

[wild_man 4442]

or...make learning dependent to your overall health. i doubt you could learn much when you can't concentrate because you caught a fever..there you go: combine KOS idea and the skill idea ;)

 

yes brain and body is same system :thumbsup:

 

sometime too many people forget good health for body is good health for brain also ;)

Edited September 15, 2013 by KoS

[Wayze 549]

This may be true, but a attribute system is just much too immersion breaking. Whatever it is has to be hidden.

 

And either way, there are going to people that don't take advantage of it. The ones that don't care and want to troll/PvP. Why ruin the immersion for the hardcore fans?

I really don't get what you mean? Why would it be immersion breaking? What do you mean with hidden?

 

If you do something, it is not like there is a message poping up and saying "Your repairing skill increased by 2.04%!". It is just when you try to repair a vehicle next time there will be another message than before. You know, the messages like "You feel hungry". There surely will be messages like "You repaired car engine". And I thought of something like "You don't feel confident about succeding this action", message before you do it. And if you are at a certain level of skill, the message will change like "You feel confident about succeding this action".

 

Sure there will be people who do not take advantage of it. There will always people who will troll, but what has this to do with the skill system?

 

 

 

 

Well what if I'm playing as a Paladin?

Sounds like we got a WoW player here.

Edited September 15, 2013 by Wayze

[joe_mcentire 2074]

Well what if I'm playing as a Paladin?

you cannot play as a paladin from the beginning. you would need lvl 10 at least to get entrance to elektro castle there you would level up till lvl 12 to join the relevant guild

Edited September 15, 2013 by joe_mcentire

[Wayze 549]

you cannot play as a paladin from the beginning. you would need lvl 10 at least to get entrance to elektro castle there you would level up till lvl 12 to joint the relevant guild

Guys, can you take this serious please? xD

[applejaxc 2500]

you cannot play as a paladin from the beginning. you would need lvl 10 at least to get entrance to elektro castle there you would level up till lvl 12 to join the relevant guild

 

But I got a pre-purchase card to start as a level 14 Paladin Elf. I guess this was a bigger rip-off than WarZ ;(

[OfficerRaymond 2067]

I really don't get what you mean? Why would it be immersion breaking? What do you mean with hidden?

 

If you do something, it is not like there is a message poping up and saying "Your repairing skill increased by 2.04%!". It is just when you try to repair a vehicle next time there will be another message than before. You know, the messages like "You feel hungry". There surely will be messages like "You repaired car engine". And I thought of something like "You don't feel confident about succeding this action", message before you do it. And if you are at a certain level of skill, the message will change like "You feel confident about succeding this action".

 

Sure there will be people who do not take advantage of it. There will always people who will troll, but what has this to do with the skill system?

Even then I think it'd be to immersion breaking. I don't wanna see that I have gained something, I just want it to happen. That is what I mean by hidden. No bothersome messages. It's immersion breaking beacuse what you're describing isn't what dayz is.

[Wayze 549]

Even then I think it'd be to immersion breaking. I don't wanna see that I have gained something, I just want it to happen. That is what I mean by hidden. No bothersome messages. It's immersion breaking beacuse what you're describing isn't what dayz is.

There will be messages anyway, so it wouldn't change anything.

[_Anubis_ (DayZ) 139]

OP,

 

The skill-system is a very good idea to make survivors with a lot of experience a lot more valuable to themselves and to others. It is a good move toward role-playing and giving therefore more depth to the game, depth which the game needs desperately to make it different from the tons of online FPS on the market... 

 

Such skill-system would (IMHO) decrease PvP: dedicated players would need more time to reach their goals and pure-KoS oriented people would have serious issues at the beginning due to the steep learning curve: e.g. you may have an penalty on shooting full auto which goes down depending on the amount of time spent using the weapon so Joe "Lord-of-KoS" Doe finding a shining AKM would have an hard time fighting against an experienced player who took ages honing his skills on a lowly Lee-Enfield.

 

However, there are a few problems:

 

1. Any skill system which unlocks actions/perks etc is immersion breaking. The example of "A survivor level 4 can shoot fireballs" is good one (in the ironic sense). The skill-system means do the same things more efficiently, not to do more things.

 

2. The game would be even more difficult for beginners, to the point to be unbearable. As you said, there are tons of examples:

- a bandage would either need more time to be applied OR take more time to stop the blood flow once applied OR not reduce the blood loss to 0% OR ...

- gutting an animal would give you less meat OR the knife would be dulled faster OR ...

- a weapon would jam more frequently (*) OR recoil would be stronger OR reload time would be longer OR ...

- a melee weapon would require more hits to kill OR require more time to hit OR ...

Just imagine how hard it would be for a new player.

 

3. Such a skill system should be based purely on experience (trying the same thing over and over again) but not on findings (e.g. blueprint to make something, or manual to maintain a weapon etc) because that would mean it would be luck based

 

4. it should be seamlessly: no message such as "***Congratulations: You now unlocked shooting full auto without recoil penalties!***" - just be subtle enough to make the players feel the improvements by seeing the effects.

 

_Anubis_

 

(*) A very nice feature of Far Cry 2: weapons deteriorated etc and jammed more and more frequently as time went by... 

[JIJOK 49]

so, run will be considered a skill, so after run 100 km you will be able to run at 200 km/h 

 

why you want this game to be rpg when you have a lot of rpg games to play ?  

Edited September 15, 2013 by JIJOK

[Wayze 549]

OP,

 

The skill-system is a very good idea to make survivors with a lot of experience a lot more valuable to themselves and to others. It is a good move toward role-playing and giving therefore more depth to the game, depth which the game needs desperately to make it different from the tons of online FPS on the market... 

 

Such skill-system would (IMHO) decrease PvP: dedicated players would need more time to reach their goals and pure-KoS oriented people would have serious issues at the beginning due to the steep learning curve: e.g. you may have an penalty on shooting full auto which goes down depending on the amount of time spent using the weapon so Joe "Lord-of-KoS" Doe finding a shining AKM would have an hard time fighting against an experienced player who took ages honing his skills on a lowly Lee-Enfield.

 

However, there are a few problems:

 

1. Any skill system which unlocks actions/perks etc is immersion breaking. The example of "A survivor level 4 can shoot fireballs" is good one (in the ironic sense). The skill-system means do the same things more efficiently, not to do more things.

 

2. The game would be even more difficult for beginners, to the point to be unbearable. As you said, there are tons of examples:

- a bandage would either need more time to be applied OR take more time to stop the blood flow once applied OR not reduce the blood loss to 0% OR ...

- gutting an animal would give you less meat OR the knife would be dulled faster OR ...

- a weapon would jam more frequently (*) OR recoil would be stronger OR reload time would be longer OR ...

- a melee weapon would require more hits to kill OR require more time to hit OR ...

Just imagine how hard it would be for a new player.

 

3. Such a skill system should be based purely on experience (trying the same thing over and over again) but not on findings (e.g. blueprint to make something, or manual to maintain a weapon etc) because that would mean it would be luck based

 

4. it should be seamlessly: no message such as "***Congratulations: You now unlocked shooting full auto without recoil penalties!***" - just be subtle enough to make the players feel the improvements by seeing the effects.

 

_Anubis_

 

(*) A very nice feature of Far Cry 2: weapons deteriorated etc and jammed more and more frequently as time went by... 

I totally agree with you, except of point 3.

Survival is very much about luck. In real life and also in DayZ mod. What you find defines how many chances you have to survive. This gives the game a unique flow and more importantly it is not repetative. You die and begin a new life. This life could be way different from the life before, due to gear you find.

Like I said there should be items, like in the real world, that make things easier for someone. These items should be not permanite and very rare. Something you are happy about when finding it.

 

However the rest I agree 100%. Especially the thing with the perks. Perks would be really weird, like I said doing something better than before is the only thing that you should achieve. You should always be able to repair a heli, but in the beginning the odds for succeeding should be very low.

 

Actually 1., 2., and 4. are no problems of the system, because they do not exist. You know, you said like "If it was like that it would be bad", but it isn't so the problems do not appear.

 

 

 

so, run will be considerer a skill, so after run 100 km you will be able to run at 200 km/h 

 

why you want this game to be rpg when you have a lot of rpg games to play ?  

Why RPG? What has this to do with a RPG? It is just character developement, to create a value for individual characters.

Don't exaggerate, if you run 100km you could probably sprint longer than before running these 100km, right?

It is just authentic like that, and adds a real value to a players life.

Edited September 15, 2013 by Wayze

[OfficerRaymond 2067]

There will be messages anyway, so it wouldn't change anything.

I beg to differ. I think a SA without messages would be great.

 

Death messages are all there should ever be.

Edited September 15, 2013 by OfficerRaymond

[Wayze 549]

I beg to differ. I think a SA without messages would be great.

 

Death messages are all there should ever be.

No, death messages are gameplay and immersion breaking. I too don't like the messages, but like Dean said there is no other way.

Death messages though could be removed, they are simply useless and stupid.

[OfficerRaymond 2067]

No, death messages are gameplay and immersion breaking. I too don't like the messages, but like Dean said there is no other way.

Death messages though could be removed, they are simply useless and stupid.

But yet you want messages plastered all over the screen of leveling up?