[SA] Endgame

[Wayze 549]

I think we all know that DayZ Mod is a really good game, but the problem is there is no real endgame. If you figured out how to survive, how to obtain the most valuable things in the game it just ends up in being a deathmatch. And let's face it, this will probably happen also in the SA, maybe it will take longer but at some point it will get boring.

 

Now I thought about how to keep the community going on, playing the game how it is. And I came up with a solution, I will say from the beginning that this is not easy to establish, but it would certainly be worth it.

This is not something Dean or any other developer on this planet is able to implement in a game, it is something about the community. We need many players to reach that point. It would probably change the whole game into something different.

Before I will tell you what all this is about, I want to say that in my opinion DayZ is the perfect game for this, maybe even the only game.

 

Alright, let me explain.

In DayZ and also in a survival scenario the people fight for their lifes. In the beginning they are on their own, maybe they develope little groups of 4-20 people. These groups interact with each other, mostly they are concentrated on their own goals and interests. But what would people do after a few year in this world? I am pretty sure they would try to constitute societies.

It is comparable to the early years of humanity. 20.000 years ago there were also small groups of people wandering through the world, but at some point they figured out that big groups are way more efficient and safer. So what if we were able to do the exact same thing? Establishing communities of hundrets of players who are united in such societies. We would theoreticly simulate the beginning of mankind.

So let's say we would be able to have like 4 communities, around 500 players each. What would this cause to the game?

 

People would elect players to lead them. Political interaction within and between the communities. The communities would have to split into smaller groups, each group would be deticated to certain servers. These groups would have also leaders, these leaders would have other leaders who lead the community. Something like kings and princes. These groups would then coordinate actions against the other communities. There would be wars etc.

Now, what would be the goal of these communities? And this is why it will only work in the Standalone. It will simply be power. Now that there is a currency in the game (ammunition) the players are able to get rich. The community with the most ammunition would then have a advantage over the others. The others would ofcourse try to rob the other communites for the ammunition and exactly that would be the motivation for all of this.

Maybe people would develope something like trade companies. Highly guarded people, who act independently from the other communities. These trade companies would have to be guarded by other communities, to maintain security and stability.

Ofcourse the communities would have to organize themselfs. The "king" has to be elected democraticly and somewhere he has to write down his commands to the "princes". Maybe a unique website for every community would be good. This could be something the players pay themselfs or the DayZ developers do, anyways these websites would have to be secure from spies. What the "king" says to the "princes" would have to maintain secret until the command gets to the actuall foot soldiers. Also the "king" has to know about the situation in all the servers, so the "princes" have to tell him that. This would be something the players would have to organize 100% by themselfs. They would have to learn strategies etc., it would be just the same like in real life.

All of this would bring a whole new dynamic into the game, there would be spies who maybe even try to get princes of the emenies community. You get what I mean.

 

Anyway, the idea brings some issues:

- the game would completly change into something different

- we need many players to be aware of this system

- we need many players who are willing to play like this

 

This is why I call my idea engame. It is something I just want if the game really turns into something like the mod. Maybe in 2 or 3 years the game gets boring and what is left will be a hardcare community, playing a boring deathmatch. If that happens I would really like to try this idea out, to make DayZ into something completly different and unique. A game that is just based on the communities and their actions. It would fit so well into the game and if it would be a huge success it could get a new money cow for Dean.

 

Are there some people who would like such a thing, if it really worked out?

[Frytek 130]

Didnt knew that ammo is currency...

And I think youve gone too far with kings and princes. If they were one community playing on the server, then there would be no sense running around the map looting. And how do you even see all people join that. Many like to play lonewolf. Its just too much what you are thinkibg of bro.

Cant say though, that it wasnt original. It got a bit chaotic in the middle.

[dimitri3p0 99]

Well in a way I think we've already started that with people forming clans, big groups like the ones you're referring to don't begin with a king and group of leaders, they begin with a small then ever bigger group of people who feel they are all enough alike that they should focus their violence and exclusion onto others, instead of those in their in-group. Perhaps start a massive clan then play a lot of DayzRP?

 

I also still don't quite get what the end-game becomes. Do people just try to climb the social Hierarchy until they become King?

Does it become large scale Clan vs Clan deathmatches on every server? Because I've taken one or two history classes, and somewhere shortly after people started forming groups, they started coming up with more impressive ways to kill people.

If I'm the King and don't play the game for an extended period does someone else become King, or does the snake die because it has no head?

Do we need to sign a blood oath to become part of a society?

Can we use polygraphs to try to determine whether someone is a spy or not?

http://blog.norml.org/2013/09/10/feds-reaffirm-that-they-will-not-likely-challenge-state-legalization-laws/

[Wayze 549]

Well in a way I think we've already started that with people forming clans, big groups like the ones you're referring to don't begin with a king and group of leaders, they begin with a small then ever bigger group of people who feel they are all enough alike that they should focus their violence and exclusion onto others, instead of those in their in-group. Perhaps start a massive clan then play a lot of DayzRP?

 

I also still don't quite get what the end-game becomes. Do people just try to climb the social Hierarchy until they become King?

Does it become large scale Clan vs Clan deathmatches on every server? Because I've taken one or two history classes, and somewhere shortly after people started forming groups, they started coming up with more impressive ways to kill people.

If I'm the King and don't play the game for an extended period does someone else become King, or does the snake die because it has no head?

Do we need to sign a blood oath to become part of a society?

Can we use polygraphs to try to determine whether someone is a spy or not?

http://blog.norml.org/2013/09/10/feds-reaffirm-that-they-will-not-likely-challenge-state-legalization-laws/

People do follow orders, to achieve the best for the community. Yes it would become probably large scale Clan vs Clan deathmatches, you would always have to kill the person with the ammo, someone has to store it. Like a high value target.

You will get a "king" if you are elected, if you do things many people don't like they will elect antoher "king". I don't know, it's not like there is a rule. The community decides how they manage that, they could even do it like a democracy.

To become part of it you would have to sign up, then you will be ordered to a group, you start as a rookie and at some day maybe you can order your own group. If you are good at what you are doing you maybe could lead a regiment etc. this is also something that the community decides.

 

 

I did not say it would be easy to do something like that, I am just saying it is better than DayZ becoming a deathmatch again. ^^

[monolith1985 109]

id say your basic point is good, but when it comes to kings and stuff it gets out of hand.
besides in groups 1 or 2 members usually end up becoming the alpha or would-be leader anyway
but in terms of groups, people should, and already do, form groups together to survive, but in the mod for most people it is just joining together to go kill other people. 
with the standalone's complex medical system, loads of different items, but limited space to hold it all, and the tougher nature of zombies will encourage people to team up in order to survive, or even form groups to assert their dominance of the rest of the people they encounter.
thats what makes dayz awesome in my opinion, it shows what people will do in order to survive, and everybody has their own methods 

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

I get your point, but the flaw in the plan is; that's not what folks WANT out of DayZ.

 

Sure, it descends into territorial clan-wars for lack of anything better to do. It's supposed to revolve around a struggle for resources, so fighting and general confrontation will always be some of the main focus points.

It's essentially geared towards "tribal" behaviour. Not quite full-blown civilization.

 

We have no idea how SA will shape player interaction (regarding deathmatch/KOS or trading an cooperation), so I'd say you're getting a bit ahead of yourself.

Best not to assume anything until we see it in action.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

I think we all know that DayZ Mod is a really good game, but the problem is there is no real endgame. If you figured out how to survive, how to obtain the most valuable things in the game it just ends up in being a deathmatch. And let's face it, this will probably happen also in the SA, maybe it will take longer but at some point it will get boring.

 

Now I thought about how to keep the community going on, playing the game how it is. And I came up with a solution, I will say from the beginning that this is not easy to establish, but it would certainly be worth it.

This is not something Dean or any other developer on this planet is able to implement in a game, it is something about the community. We need many players to reach that point. It would probably change the whole game into something different.

Before I will tell you what all this is about, I want to say that in my opinion DayZ is the perfect game for this, maybe even the only game.

 

Alright, let me explain.

In DayZ and also in a survival scenario the people fight for their lifes. In the beginning they are on their own, maybe they develope little groups of 4-20 people. These groups interact with each other, mostly they are concentrated on their own goals and interests. But what would people do after a few year in this world? I am pretty sure they would try to constitute societies.

It is comparable to the early years of humanity. 20.000 years ago there were also small groups of people wandering through the world, but at some point they figured out that big groups are way more efficient and safer. So what if we were able to do the exact same thing? Establishing communities of hundrets of players who are united in such societies. We would theoreticly simulate the beginning of mankind.

So let's say we would be able to have like 4 communities, around 500 players each. What would this cause to the game?

 

People would elect players to lead them. Political interaction within and between the communities. The communities would have to split into smaller groups, each group would be deticated to certain servers. These groups would have also leaders, these leaders would have other leaders who lead the community. Something like kings and princes. These groups would then coordinate actions against the other communities. There would be wars etc.

Now, what would be the goal of these communities? And this is why it will only work in the Standalone. It will simply be power. Now that there is a currency in the game (ammunition) the players are able to get rich. The community with the most ammunition would then have a advantage over the others. The others would ofcourse try to rob the other communites for the ammunition and exactly that would be the motivation for all of this.

Maybe people would develope something like trade companies. Highly guarded people, who act independently from the other communities. These trade companies would have to be guarded by other communities, to maintain security and stability.

Ofcourse the communities would have to organize themselfs. The "king" has to be elected democraticly and somewhere he has to write down his commands to the "princes". Maybe a unique website for every community would be good. This could be something the players pay themselfs or the DayZ developers do, anyways these websites would have to be secure from spies. What the "king" says to the "princes" would have to maintain secret until the command gets to the actuall foot soldiers. Also the "king" has to know about the situation in all the servers, so the "princes" have to tell him that. This would be something the players would have to organize 100% by themselfs. They would have to learn strategies etc., it would be just the same like in real life.

All of this would bring a whole new dynamic into the game, there would be spies who maybe even try to get princes of the emenies community. You get what I mean.

 

Anyway, the idea brings some issues:

- the game would completly change into something different

- we need many players to be aware of this system

- we need many players who are willing to play like this

 

This is why I call my idea engame. It is something I just want if the game really turns into something like the mod. Maybe in 2 or 3 years the game gets boring and what is left will be a hardcare community, playing a boring deathmatch. If that happens I would really like to try this idea out, to make DayZ into something completly different and unique. A game that is just based on the communities and their actions. It would fit so well into the game and if it would be a huge success it could get a new money cow for Dean.

 

Are there some people who would like such a thing, if it really worked out?

I really don't think politics and reconstruction of a civilisation is part of the scope of the game. You can always try, but it shouldn't be written in the game code. The code should support a "freedom of action" but should not assist the players in micro managing a group of any kind. I do know that as an anarchist i would try my best to ensure it never happens where i play.

For many people "post apocalyptic" stories are apreciated due to the escapism from the dullness of an ordered society that it provide.

[joe_mcentire 2074]

my approach to such a topic:

 

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/124356-player-decisions-unlocking-new-content/

Edited September 15, 2013 by joe_mcentire

[Wayze 549]

I really don't think politics and reconstruction of a civilisation is part of the scope of the game. You can always try, but it shouldn't be written in the game code. The code should support a "freedom of action" but should not assist the players in micro managing a group of any kind. I do know that as an anarchist i would try my best to ensure it never happens where i play.

For many people "post apocalyptic" stories are apreciated due to the escapism from the dullness of an ordered society that it provide.

I never said there should be changed anything within the game. It should stay exactly the same as it is. What the communities do with their people is for them to decide.

 

Like I said this "post apcaylptic" stuff does not work forever. At some point it gets really boring for everyone because everyone knows how to survive and achieve everything you can.

[rikardf 7]

I think we all know that DayZ Mod is a really good game, but the problem is there is no real endgame. If you figured out how to survive, how to obtain the most valuable things in the game it just ends up in being a deathmatch. And let's face it, this will probably happen also in the SA, maybe it will take longer but at some point it will get boring.

 

Now I thought about how to keep the community going on, playing the game how it is. And I came up with a solution, I will say from the beginning that this is not easy to establish, but it would certainly be worth it.

This is not something Dean or any other developer on this planet is able to implement in a game, it is something about the community. We need many players to reach that point. It would probably change the whole game into something different.

Before I will tell you what all this is about, I want to say that in my opinion DayZ is the perfect game for this, maybe even the only game.

 

Alright, let me explain.

In DayZ and also in a survival scenario the people fight for their lifes. In the beginning they are on their own, maybe they develope little groups of 4-20 people. These groups interact with each other, mostly they are concentrated on their own goals and interests. But what would people do after a few year in this world? I am pretty sure they would try to constitute societies.

It is comparable to the early years of humanity. 20.000 years ago there were also small groups of people wandering through the world, but at some point they figured out that big groups are way more efficient and safer. So what if we were able to do the exact same thing? Establishing communities of hundrets of players who are united in such societies. We would theoreticly simulate the beginning of mankind.

So let's say we would be able to have like 4 communities, around 500 players each. What would this cause to the game?

 

People would elect players to lead them. Political interaction within and between the communities. The communities would have to split into smaller groups, each group would be deticated to certain servers. These groups would have also leaders, these leaders would have other leaders who lead the community. Something like kings and princes. These groups would then coordinate actions against the other communities. There would be wars etc.

Now, what would be the goal of these communities? And this is why it will only work in the Standalone. It will simply be power. Now that there is a currency in the game (ammunition) the players are able to get rich. The community with the most ammunition would then have a advantage over the others. The others would ofcourse try to rob the other communites for the ammunition and exactly that would be the motivation for all of this.

Maybe people would develope something like trade companies. Highly guarded people, who act independently from the other communities. These trade companies would have to be guarded by other communities, to maintain security and stability.

Ofcourse the communities would have to organize themselfs. The "king" has to be elected democraticly and somewhere he has to write down his commands to the "princes". Maybe a unique website for every community would be good. This could be something the players pay themselfs or the DayZ developers do, anyways these websites would have to be secure from spies. What the "king" says to the "princes" would have to maintain secret until the command gets to the actuall foot soldiers. Also the "king" has to know about the situation in all the servers, so the "princes" have to tell him that. This would be something the players would have to organize 100% by themselfs. They would have to learn strategies etc., it would be just the same like in real life.

All of this would bring a whole new dynamic into the game, there would be spies who maybe even try to get princes of the emenies community. You get what I mean.

 

Anyway, the idea brings some issues:

- the game would completly change into something different

- we need many players to be aware of this system

- we need many players who are willing to play like this

 

This is why I call my idea engame. It is something I just want if the game really turns into something like the mod. Maybe in 2 or 3 years the game gets boring and what is left will be a hardcare community, playing a boring deathmatch. If that happens I would really like to try this idea out, to make DayZ into something completly different and unique. A game that is just based on the communities and their actions. It would fit so well into the game and if it would be a huge success it could get a new money cow for Dean.

 

Are there some people who would like such a thing, if it really worked out?

 

I fully agree, I know exactly what you mean, Like once i get a nice gun, Nice equipment and a nice vehicle there is nothing left for me to do apart from hunting bandits until someone without a bandit skin tricks me, And then i start over, Dayz is a great game but it gets boring really quick so i take frequent breaks every once in a while, And don't get me started on the humanity and banditry, The amount of bandits in the game is really making dayz only half of what it actualy could be, But what if instead of adding "factions/communties" to the game from the start they could give the players the ability to build their own from scratch, Like giving us the ability to invite people to our faction and make a chain of command etc etc and then give the faction the option to purge a area from infected and then build walls around the area or something.

 

(Sorry for my horrible grammar and spelling but i don't have time to check dat shiz at the moment.)

[NagsterTheGangster 388]

This might work for a private server for people to join and abide by the rules for their own sake, but on a mass scale there will always be assholes not willing to participate for the benefit of the player community. Id say start a server and try something like this, I would join and play along to see how fun it is or isnt.

[Michaelvoodoo25 3120]

The only fitting endgame would be the player who has survived long enough to realise there is no hope left, pulls the trigger next to his head and dreams forever.

Depression is a bitch!

[Alias Mias 37]

This could work in theory, but people are assholes. Once everyone goes offline that 1 guy will remember that it's a game, and get a few kicks by running over the town tents or crashing the communal helicopter. Also, as a note on the leaders, I don't think they would be elected. It would just happen. They would be the one that knows everyone, that invites everyone into their camp. Their kinda elected subconsciously. Everyone asks them permission before they take supplies and this same individual is the community representative, speaking with the leaders of other communities to setup trades and treaties. They are the one that holds everything together.

[m.w. vindicator 880]

"I think we all know that DayZ Mod is a really good game,"

 

 

 

I thought this was funny.

 

 

Please continue.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

I never said there should be changed anything within the game. It should stay exactly the same as it is. What the communities do with their people is for them to decide.

 

Like I said this "post apcaylptic" stuff does not work forever. At some point it gets really boring for everyone because everyone knows how to survive and achieve everything you can.

I guess it depends what the DayZ team want to do but the game can certainly raise the difficulty a few pegs. I play a little roguelike called "cataclysm/ dark days ahead" This is the typical example where "knowing how to survive" is not enough, because sometimes, the game just pit you against crazy odds.

 

Depending how the game is balanced, survival might become an endless race after the next meal, where all the time between meals is spent looking for the next.

 

And yeah in the current state, survival in DayZ feels like a hiking trip.

[Wayze 549]

This could work in theory, but people are assholes. Once everyone goes offline that 1 guy will remember that it's a game, and get a few kicks by running over the town tents or crashing the communal helicopter. Also, as a note on the leaders, I don't think they would be elected. It would just happen. They would be the one that knows everyone, that invites everyone into their camp. Their kinda elected subconsciously. Everyone asks them permission before they take supplies and this same individual is the community representative, speaking with the leaders of other communities to setup trades and treaties. They are the one that holds everything together.

Yes, sure there are these problems. But, as a player we are able to do EVERYTHING we want to. Everyone goes offline? What would you do in real life? Same situation, everyone goes to sleep and you are screwed. Make it like 20 min guarding teams, from different countries. If someone lifes in the US he can play through can play at EU night time. And if a community has like 300 members, they just have to deal with such things.

Not easy at all, but as we all know, in real life it was even harder. And still, it works.

 

I think many people could enjoy it, if there just were people who actually create such a thing. It is not easy, but possible. And I guarantee you, at some point in gaming history it will happen. And it will turn into a golden donkey.

[enforcer1975 1111]

Not easy at all, but as we all know, in real life it was even harder. And still, it works.

 

I think many people could enjoy it, if there just were people who actually create such a thing. It is not easy, but possible. And I guarantee you, at some point in gaming history it will happen. And it will turn into a golden donkey.

 

Unlike RL you can't forge plans in secret via TS f.e. tp get into position and attack simultaneously or send PMs to tell KoS players the whereabouts of the community camp. So it would be difficult because as one said players are assholes and because you arent't limited to the game's communication you have all the advantage on your side if you are planning something in secret because it will stay secret unless Snowden leaks it on wikileaks for people to see. I don't see any future in large players communities because KoS is all they attract unless you "force" them to roleplay not to be a dick. You have to force them to follow certain rules because that's the only way something like that will ever work, every community has rules, hell even pirates have rules they have to follow or else there is only KoS.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

The Endgame of the SA should be the tin-can, the most versatile weapon in the history of existence itself. Then there's the end-endgame, which is the crowbar. The end-end-endgame may include the Hatchet (May). Don't get me started on the Makarov. 

[RedTailedLizerd 12]

I really don't think politics and reconstruction of a civilisation is part of the scope of the game. You can always try, but it shouldn't be written in the game code. The code should support a "freedom of action" but should not assist the players in micro managing a group of any kind. I do know that as an anarchist i

No one would follow orders, this would basically become some dumb trouble in terrorist town thing mixed with sims. I know I'd plant a bomb in a public place just to ruin as much society as possible because I despise this idea and how much it screws up dayz by turning it into a civilization 4 remake. Sorry if it came out rude.

Also, people, please don't quote the entire original post.

Edited September 30, 2013 by RedTailedLizerd

[mercules 1290]

As soon as you used the phrase, "End Game" you lost the point of DayZ.