DayZero Thoughts

[HIHBGaming 14]

It's not pay to win. It's more like "help to pay our servers"

Donating to a server is one thing and honestly, more people should just donate to their favourite server without having advantages over other people as an incentive. No matter how small that advantage is, it's still an advantage and is "Pay to Win".

The privilege of playing on a good server on someone else's dime should be incentive enough to cough up a few $$ to help pay for it. They are in fact giving you a decent server to play on and should be reciprocated in return.

[tommes 331]

Donating to a server is one thing and honestly, more people should just donate to their favourite server without having advantages over other people as an incentive.

Yeah, the world should be a good place with nice people...

No matter how small that advantage is, it's still an advantage and is "Pay to Win".

That's a radical viewpoint. But I think we can agree on it beeing a small advantage in the beginnig of a new life. Non contributing players will quickly at par with the ones paying.

The privilege of playing on a good server on someone else's dime should be incentive enough to cough up a few $$ to help pay for it. They are in fact giving you a decent server to play on and should be reciprocated in return.

The world should be just! Agreed. But who pays for that? ^^

[tommes 331]

Nope, accepting donations is helping to pay for servers.  Really though you're missing the point because anybody should be able to host a server for DayZero or Origins if they wish, that's how modding has worked for years.  You need to ask yourself why they only have specific servers in the first place.

 

Could it be that they've altered files that as modders they're not legally allowed to alter?  Making those files public would quickly shed some light on that.  Could it be to drive people through certain websites to gain revenue from advertising?  Could it be both?

 

Either way if the server files weren't locked down we wouldn't need to ask these questions.

Don't know about that, especially about the legal stuff and I especially don't care about the latter one either. I only know they offer a relatively polished gaming experience of which they did a lot of the polishing. I personally don't mind if they get some reimbursement out of it. Btw, I found no ads on their website.

 

If your sole point is that they deserve money for what they've achieved then you don't understand the whole concept of community made mods.  Most of the content they're "selling" isn't theirs to sell in the first place.

They don't sell content, or do they?  

 

All they need is a home website with a "donate" button, job done.

Sure. But giving something in return makes more people donate. That's why like everybody is offering starter loadouts and stuff for donations.

Do I like that? Not much. Do I care. Not much.

If they do to much of it players will be driven away.

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

Yeah, the world should be a good place with nice people...

That's a radical viewpoint. But I think we can agree on it beeing a small advantage in the beginnig of a new life. Non contributing players will quickly at par with the ones paying.

The world should be just! Agreed. But who pays for that? ^^

I think you're misunderstanding the whole concept of what community modding is if I'm honest.

 

People have been modding Arma for over a decade.  There's hundreds of mods and a shed load of resources provided by BIS to to so.  At the risk of repeating myself, modding is a hobby.  People make these mods using assets that have been made (for free) by other community members and using (for free) the resources provided by BIS.

 

The peeps that make some of these mods have probably made less than 1 -2% of the actual content it is that they're now "selling".  Until you grasp that it is not theirs to profit from you will never understand why some people are so infuriated by it.

 

I'm genuinely proud to be part of the DayZ community but as a long-term member of the BIS community I'm saddened and depressed to see the way things are now going.

 

P.S - You "not caring" about certain issues does not make it any less of an issue.

Edited September 3, 2013 by Fraggle

[The Jackall 55]

this is a good reason from a post on the zoombies.nu site

 

"Yes. Please dont release the server files. What alot of you people dont know and the behind the scenes of the admin and what goes on in the Breaking Point and Overwatch is unbelievable. I have a friend who has a clan and they have their own Overwatch server and Breaking Point server. The admin puts up a spectator tool to "watch out for hackers" but then as I was playing with them he was giving off the locations of players to everybody in the ts. I had a fight with him and I have yet to play any other server other than DayZero. Also he had the ability to teleport himself anywhere in the map and he could teleport anybody else. This admin is a grown ass man(in his late 20's) So imagine what all the other younger more imature admins are doing. Plus, as we have seen from Breaking Point they released the server files just so some other people can take them change a few things around and make another mod (Overwatch) which crushed BP. Not a good idea and I wont be playing anymore DayZ untill SA comes out if this happens."

[tommes 331]

I think you're misunderstanding the whole concept of what community modding is if I'm honest.

 

People have been modding Arma for over a decade.  There's hundreds of mods and a shed load of resources provided by BIS to to so.  At the risk of repeating myself, modding is a hobby.  People make these mods using assets that have been made (for free) by other community members and using (for free) the resources provided by BIS.

 

The peeps that make some of these mods have probably made less than 1 -2% of the actual content it is that they're now "selling".  Until you grasp that it is not theirs to profit from you will never understand why some people are so infuriated by it.

 

I'm genuinely proud to be part of the DayZ community but as a long-term member of the BIS community I'm saddened and depressed to see the way things are now going.

 

P.S - You "not caring" about certain issues does not make it any less of an issue.

 

They're not selling content. They don't sell "DayZero Standalone". They offer sort of a service. Something like a server hoster. With a free2play like business model...though you probably can't talk about a business model. How many people donate how much to them you guess? I don't and I won't. I'm a cheap guy. Like most. I paid my dues to BI by buying a copy of Arma 2. But I bet those guys can't live off the couple of Euros from some contributers. They probably struggle to keep their servers up while you guys imagine them to buy Kim Dot Com's villa in New Zealand or something like that.

 

Btw, if you create something and put it public without any form of license then you shouldn't be infuriated by other people taking/using your stuff. The world is a harsh place.

 

Btw, not caring about an issue does make it a non issue. To me at least.

[The Jackall 55]

Then ask for donations - no need to hand out gear.

 

Who really wants these custom load outs anyway?

 

The guys at zoombies dont hand out gear except for one new bandit skin which i think is worth it.

 

Ultimate Hero

This upgrade will give you priority access to our servers for the rest of your life!

When we set up servers for standalone in the future this will apply to those servers and any other zombie-related servers we might set up!

It also grants you replacement skins to the default survivor and bandit skins.

 

For the rest of your life? Even when standalone servers are released? Sign me up thank you.

 

I can promise you guys this. I currently play overwatch on a locally hosted server as i am not from the EU or USA, and the server is shitty and you can see it in the performance. I play Dayzero on the US servers as i cant find place in the EU servers, and the performance in general (lag and gameplay) is a huge diff.

[beatSTV 631]

this is a good reason from a post on the zoombies.nu site

 

"Yes. Please dont release the server files. What alot of you people dont know and the behind the scenes of the admin and what goes on in the Breaking Point and Overwatch is unbelievable. I have a friend who has a clan and they have their own Overwatch server and Breaking Point server. The admin puts up a spectator tool to "watch out for hackers" but then as I was playing with them he was giving off the locations of players to everybody in the ts. I had a fight with him and I have yet to play any other server other than DayZero. Also he had the ability to teleport himself anywhere in the map and he could teleport anybody else. This admin is a grown ass man(in his late 20's) So imagine what all the other younger more imature admins are doing. Plus, as we have seen from Breaking Point they released the server files just so some other people can take them change a few things around and make another mod (Overwatch) which crushed BP. Not a good idea and I wont be playing anymore DayZ untill SA comes out if this happens."

 

thats not a good reason its completely flawed.

 

 

They're not selling content. They don't sell "DayZero Standalone". They offer sort of a service. Something like a server hoster. With a free2play like business model...though you probably can't talk about a business model. How many people donate how much to them you guess? I don't and I won't. I'm a cheap guy. Like most. I paid my dues to BI by buying a copy of Arma 2. But I bet those guys can't live off the couple of Euros from some contributers. They probably struggle to keep their servers up while you guys imagine them to buy Kim Dot Com's villa in New Zealand or something like that.

 

Btw, if you create something and put it public without any form of license then you shouldn't be infuriated by other people taking/using your stuff. The world is a harsh place.

 

Btw, not caring about an issue does make it a non issue. To me at least.

 

They are not offering a service they have closed the market by not offering the server files meaning that they are making revenue from website advertising and p2w features. As for the post fraggle made about altering the files im about 95% sure they have but that in itself is not too much of an issue IMHO.

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

Plus, as we have seen from Breaking Point they released the server files just so some other people can take them change a few things around and make another mod (Overwatch) which crushed BP.

That's exactly what community modding is.  The irony of that one sentence alone is mind-blowing.

 

Imagine if Dean had taken that approach with DayZ, you wouldn't have any choice and the DayZ mod wouldn't have any competition.  Earlier in this thread you agreed competition is a good thing.

Edited September 3, 2013 by Fraggle

[The Jackall 55]

They're not selling content. They don't sell "DayZero Standalone". They offer sort of a service. Something like a server hoster. With a free2play like business model...though you probably can't talk about a business model. How many people donate how much to them you guess? I don't and I won't. I'm a cheap guy. Like most. I paid my dues to BI by buying a copy of Arma 2. But I bet those guys can't live off the couple of Euros from some contributers. They probably struggle to keep their servers up while you guys imagine them to buy Kim Dot Com's villa in New Zealand or something like that.

 

Btw, if you create something and put it public without any form of license then you shouldn't be infuriated by other people taking/using your stuff. The world is a harsh place.

 

Btw, not caring about an issue does make it a non issue. To me at least.

 

Tommes like i mentioned early in the thread, Dean was silly to drop vanilla and could have made some early money from his idea if he followed their path. He prob got a nice kickback from BI for all the game sales and said screw the mod. As i see it nobody out there has put so much effort and time into any of the mods (we dont even have 1.7.8 released yet after two months of waiting) and these guys should be credited and if someone wants to donate, let them.

 

Hopefully the funding these guys do get will get them a bigger crew so they can keep on developing and give the standalone a run for its money. Like Fraggle said, the mod will live on after the standalone as not everyone will love what is done on the standalone.

[beatSTV 631]

That's exactly what community modding is.  The irony of that one sentence alone os mind-blowing.

 

We have got to the crux of the matter...

 

Cash cow keep server files make money from not releasing the files

Release server files have someone steal your ideas and then release another mod with the server files closed

 

 

Aftermath has had a shit load of time money and effort spent on it but we are releasing the server files because we aren't greedy. Are our files going to get stolen... yep too right they are... what are we going to do about it? theres not a lot we can do but at the end of the day we aren't doing this to make money we're doing it because we want to play on a server thats is tailored to how we want to play the game

[Hellsing (DayZ) 6]

Aftermath has had a shit load of time money and effort spent on it but we are releasing the server files because we aren't greedy. Are our files going to get stolen... yep too right they are... what are we going to do about it? theres not a lot we can do but at the end of the day we aren't doing this to make money we're doing it because we want to play on a server thats is tailored to how we want to play the game

 

Another crux in the debate.... "We want to play on a server that is tailored to how we want to play the game".

 

If everybody was 100% happy with the vanilla mod, we wouldn't have all the off-spring / mutated mods to sit here and argue about.  The people behind modding of mods, have tailored them to suit the way they want to play the game, or rather, to how their local gamers want to play the game.

 

I agree with Fraggle, modding was not intended to be a cash cow.  It was intended to be tweaking of the game to the way you or your gaming community wanted to play it, and then hosting that version, free-to-play.

 

Sadly, as where humans are involved, there will always be that someone somewhere, trying to make a quick buck, off something that isnt technically 100% THEIRS to make a buck off.

 

I guess like with music and movie piracy, you either pay the money, and enjoy "the spoils of war", or your moral compass kicks in, you dig in your heels, and stick to your free-to-play mod that you normally play, whilst waiting for the SA.

 

As with everything in life.... the choice is yours.

Edited September 3, 2013 by Hellsing

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

Another crux in the debate.... "We want to play on a server that is tailored to how we want to play the game".

 

If everybody was 100% happy with the vanilla mod, we wouldn't have all the off-spring / mutated mods to sit here and argue about.

Yes we would because that's exactly what modding is.  Somebody develops an idea, somebody else mods/tweaks/enhances that idea.   That's the very core of modding and what drives it forward.  Locking down files stops that in it's tracks.

 

I really do think there's some people here that don't fundamentally understand what modding is and how long it's been going on for.  For free.

Edited September 3, 2013 by Fraggle

[Hellsing (DayZ) 6]

Yes we would because that's exactly what modding is.  Somebody develops an idea, somebody else mods/tweaks/enhances that idea.   That's the very core of modding and what drives it forward.  Locking down files stops that in it's tracks.

 

I really do think there's some people here that don't fundamentally understand what modding is and how long it's been going on for.  For free.

 

Agreed.  The perspective I have given here, is my take on the discussion, but a noob one, undoubtedly.

[dgeesio 1034]

It's not pay to win. It's more like "help to pay our servers".

this is often bs from greedy admins !

 

sorry you can rent servers for as little as 30 dollars a month when you see some people netting silly amounts like 500 dollars a month it isnt for " maintaining the servers ! " :lol:

 

i think this kind of blatent abuse should get the server black listed. fair enough covering server costs but making a business proftting from a games content when the whole product is not about selling you dlc which is what you basically are selling even though you dont own the rights to do so is a pisstake.

 

atleast in standalone if all the stuff is locked offf god i pray it is then this blatant selling stuff to people will end.

[beatSTV 631]

this is often bs from greedy admins !

 

sorry you can rent servers for as little as 30 dollars a month when you see some people netting silly amounts like 500 dollars a month it isnt for " maintaining the servers ! " :lol:

 

i think this kind of blatent abuse should get the server black listed. fair enough covering server costs but making a business proftting from a games content when the whole product is not about selling you dlc which is what you basically are selling even though you dont own the rights to do so is a pisstake.

 

atleast in standalone if all the stuff is locked offf god i pray it is then this blatant selling stuff to people will end.

 

That is just the donations which imo isnt a problem as long as you do not recieve anything for donating in the first place. the real money is coming from offering the custom loadouts and also the fact that the only place you can play dayZero from is two websites huge traffic going through just those two. As well as the registered members as you have to whitelist yourself with an account on the forum.

[Private Evans 1303]

Yes we would because that's exactly what modding is.  Somebody develops an idea, somebody else mods/tweaks/enhances that idea.   That's the very core of modding and what drives it forward.  Locking down files stops that in it's tracks.

 

I really do think there's some people here that don't fundamentally understand what modding is and how long it's been going on for.  For free.

 

 

Modding a mod( as long as no permission is granted) is usually an absolutely NO go for modders in most of modding communities...same goes for using stuff made by others without permission or earning money using stuff made by others...mods that are not based on this fundamental rools of modding should be not supported on offical sites but instead banned and ignored !!!!

Edited September 3, 2013 by Private Evans

[tommes 331]

thats not a good reason its completely flawed.

 

 

 

They are not offering a service they have closed the market by not offering the server files meaning that they are making revenue from website advertising and p2w features. As for the post fraggle made about altering the files im about 95% sure they have but that in itself is not too much of an issue IMHO.

 

How is it flawed?

Where is the website advertising you talk about? Didn't find any.

I'm sure they altered files. I've read something about they've completely rewritten server core. Hence the better performance. If they improve something BI doesn't care about they have my support in that.

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

If they improve something BI doesn't care about they have my support in that.

Please elaborate.

[bulletgaming012 12]

Day zero for the win. Solely down to the improved FPS. And its fairly authentic to vanilla.

[The Jackall 55]

Please elaborate.

 

BI doesn't care, as these guys made a mod which they encourage. They not forcing anyone to pay nore do they advertise on their website. They have a donation page for people like me who actually want to give something back for their time and effort in making something i really enjoy.  

 

They did something that vanilla couldnt get right, wright better code, and design a better game in general. These guys still show real respect towards Dayz and you can see it in the design.

[tommes 331]

Please elaborate.

 

As I said before, in their history is a line about rewriting server core...whatever that means. DayZero runs noticeably better on my machine than other DayZ. They must have done something better. Rocket and BI don't do that for the mod. Never really did. They left it more or less shred to pieces completely focussing on SA. Then the community jumped in and started to fix stuff Dean said couldn't be fixed. Whoever does something like that, kudos!

[Inception. 9443]

So. Someone please inform me correctly on the following:

 

1. There is a huge performance difference between the EU and US DayZero servers.

2. The pay to win [essentially] thing is only on the US servers.

[The Jackall 55]

So. Someone please inform me correctly on the following:

 

1. There is a huge performance difference between the EU and US DayZero servers.

2. The pay to win [essentially] thing is only on the US servers.

 

1. No the performance is the same. I see more EU guys playing on the US servers as they find open slots there. The content in game are exactly the same on EU and US.

2. Yes only the US have done this and apparently have done this before Dayzero.

[Hosty 647]

Meh, DayZero will NOT come close to what SA will be, trust me.

But at the moment, it is indeed the BEST DayZ mod out there.

Please explain what is so special about DayZero.

 

Rocket was playing at very good FPS on an alienware laptop when not recording, and FPS will get even better. (He tweeted this out)

Edited September 3, 2013 by Hosty