First Vs. Third Person Poll (Post your vote here, after reading Dslyecxi video discussion)

[SoulHunter (DayZ) 233]

So can we conclude that the majority of 3rd person players don't frequent the forums or reddit?

 

Since these figures are disregarded by the 3rd person brigade for some reason what is your conclusion?

 

The hard core players (ie those that can be bothered to voice opinions on forums) are pro 1st while the casual is 3rd?

 

My other question is like the chicken and the egg. Did 3rd enabled servers come first or did players demand them? 

 

Reminds me of political polls - the loser always says they don't matter and the winner always says they do.

I am no part of any side in this research. I did not say that FPV or TPV sucks or is great. I did not give any of my thoughts for the sake of the research. All I did want from people was to watch Dslyecxi's video before voting if they want, just to get informed about the case which is the main point of these polls and sorta actions.

 

To talk about the questions;

 

So can we conclude that the majority of 3rd person players don't frequent the forums or reddit?

You have right to think anything you would desire. But whatever we could think would not be the absolute truth. It is impossible for a human-being to be able to analyze something perfectly. But we can simply make up some assumptions about the mentioned case;

-I recall Dean saying that DayZ did not become famous just in no time. It took some time. It was prob generally shared from friends to friends somehow. But to consider the nature of youtube and such platforms, dayz must have been popular there very quickly. And what do the streamers do? They do PvP to show that they are that good at the game that they are above the survival aspect of the game already. They try many different ways to gain as much advantage as possible over other players, to be able to seem more god-like. And considering that the millions could get aware of the game with such platforms, they would then try and be like those cool streamers.

-If someone got used to something, it would be hard to leave it instantly. I personally like FPV because of its immersion level. However, because I got used to TPV, it was hard for me to re-used to FPV. Knowing other people using TPV doesn't also help the case at all. If you get in PvP actions much, and your enemies prefer TPV unlike you, then you would prob have a bad time.

-This research does not show that which view would be the best in DayZ StandAlone. It shows that which view reddit users would like to have in DayZ StandAlone. There is a big difference. DayZ is not like CoD or CS series. But the current gen is used to those games, so when they see a gun, that reminds them sorta famous games. People seeming to want FPV because of them wanting such a FPV experience like in CoD and kinds has nothing to do with which view would go best with the game-play. People playing thegame in 3rd person due to it forcing the playerbase to do so does not mean that the players want to play the game like that. I hope I could explain this fact a little.

 

Since these figures are disregarded by the 3rd person brigade for some reason what is your conclusion?

There could be many reason for that;

-People that are always against the ideas which seem to them more than enough heterodox.

-People who used to play the game using the exploits of 3rd person.

-People who used to see his character while playing (like me).

-People who are not comfortable with such possible big changes.

-People who do not want a CoDish experience in a survival game (maybe FPV might remind people such games, who knows?)

-People who dislike FPV games.

-And much more..

I just made up these possible reasons of them to act like that. It shows nothing but that people who would seem united under one belief/thought/idea do not always share the same opinions/reasonings.

 

 

The hard core players (ie those that can be bothered to voice opinions on forums) are pro 1st while the casual is 3rd?

Again, no one can judge people just because of their interest. I think it is a wrong action to separate people with the way they like to play. I just stated many possible reason why they would not like to play the game without 3rd person. It is not like all the people must be using TPV just to exploit its advantages..

 

 

My other question is like the chicken and the egg. Did 3rd enabled servers come first or did players demand them?

I do literally have no idea why you would ask such a question to me. Considering me not being the one who found out/played the mod first, I can of course by no way know the answer. But I can provide that some people on the forums have claimed that FPV has come before TPV. I am not informed on this aspect though (nor am I interested in it).

 

 

Reminds me of political polls - the loser always says they don't matter and the winner always says they do.

Could you elaborate the point of this saying? That, to me, makes literally no sense as to consider that this post of yours was meant to be pointed to my post.

 

 

 

Thanks

Regards

Edited August 27, 2013 by SoulHunter

[DemonGroover 8836]

Sausage

 

I think that is the crux of the issue though.  A lot of 1st only players do consider it a cheat.

 

I wouldn't personally call it a cheat but if two people are behind opposite sides of a wall, one using 1st the other 3rd who has the upper hand?  And this is only because of perspective not skill or even luck.

 

But yes, cheat is a tad harsh.

Edited August 27, 2013 by DemonGroover

[DemonGroover 8836]

Soulhunter

 

 

Sorry, my post wasn't directed at your post in particular, but the poll results in general on this thread and your document. My questions were also directed at everyone, not just you.  Sorry for the confusion.

 

Insofar as the last comment about the poll results.  I am not sure where you are from but here in Australia we have political polls every few months about how the government is doing.  If the poll says the government is doing a good job they use the results to further their claims about how well they are doing, but if the poll results come back that they are doing a bad job the government will say "Polls don't matter"

[SoulHunter (DayZ) 233]

It would be nice if the FP camp would quit using the term "cheat" when discussing the proper use of the third person camera.   It only serves to inflame others and probably has a lot to do with the overall tone of these debates.

 

I failed to understand this post completely. Was that really meant to be pointed to me? Because;

 

-In the research/pool, there is nothing supporting any of the options by any way.

-What is  FP camp? That doesn't make any sense to me.. It is not like those who want FPV are fanatic FPV users.. Dunno if you checked the results of the research, but themajority seems to seek FPV in S.A even though most people play the game in TPV. Hell even I already claimed that I am a 3rd person view user... --.--

-Due to the feedback, I've also made a claim (which is also in the quote of me that you used, dunno if u read it all) that says regardless whoever thinks what, almost all the people participating the research seem to be aware of the fact that TPV is used to exploit in game, which can be called "cheating". It is not like people call it "hacking". I fail to understand why people would feel offended by that saying.. It is a feature of the game, not a bug or glitch, therefore not bannable as well. However, if you would use something for something that is not meant to be used that way, then it can be called exploit, whereas cheating.

-No one has ever used (afaik) the term of "cheating" when discussing the proper use of the TPV, but discussing the improper use of it instead.

 

Edited August 27, 2013 by SoulHunter

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

Sausage

 

I think that is the crux of the issue though.  A lot of 1st only players do consider it a cheat.

 

I wouldn't personally call it a cheat but if two people are behind opposite sides of a wall, one using 1st the other 3rd who has the upper hand?  And this is only because of perspective not skill or even luck.

 

But yes, cheat is a tad harsh.

 

There's no disagreeing with who will have the upper hand in that given situation but come on now, wtf would you be in first in that situation if third is available?

 

Properly using the third person camera can take skill, but only if the map is designed with that type of pvp in mind.  From my experience, the maps in Arma are simply not designed for this type of pvp.  Third, in DayZ at least, is especially useful against the environment.  Unfortunately for the view, the game has morphed into a pure pvp fest, for any reason we'd like to mention, and those of us still kicking about are so experienced that zombies offer no threat at all.  Blop, blop, zombie down.  Anyone alive for an hour has a weapon ready to take gobs of zombies unless they make a very stupid mistake.

 

Which brings me to the main complaint I've seen from FP guys.  Nearly every person from the FP camp that I've debated view the camera as a cheat in PvP.  Occasionally a guy will say "but it adds more immersion and tension!!!"  Yes to immersion, hands down, no debate on that, but I absolutely disagree with the tension aspect when it comes to PvP.  I've made poorly structured arguments against that before but the point still stands.  Not knowing if someone is watching you is about as realistic as possible in a game like this.  Knowing someone can be watching you from just about anywhere adds a tremendous amount of tension, something the FP guys seem to resist and just say "someone must be cheating!!!"

 

Was the mod meant to be an endless deathmatch of 50 cals?  Is the SA meant to be that?  I say no, simply by the changes Rocket has mentioned.  If it was meant to be a big ass deathmatch between players, zombies wouldn't be necessary at all and loot would rotate while floating in the air with a giant red aura around it.  Oh, and it would probably be timed if the loot dropped from a player to encourage people to make a break for good loot.. to encourage more PvP.

 

That's not how it works and the damaging loot and limited ammo of the SA suggests our goal shouldn't be all about racking up kills.  Do we really want to play another deathmatch game? 

 

 

The FP argument is firmly rooted in PvP.  I can go play a FP PvP game anywhere.  I want a challenging environment and the tension brought on by player interactions other than shoot on sight.

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

I failed to understand this post completely. Was that really meant to be pointed to me? Because;

 

-In the research/pool, there is nothing supporting any of the options by any way.

-What is  FP camp? That doesn't make any sense to me.. It is not like those who want FPV are fanatic FPV users.. Dunno if you checked the results of the research, but themajority seems to seek FPV in S.A even though most people play the game in TPV. Hell even I already claimed that I am a 3rd person view user... --.--

-Due to the feedback, I've also made a claim (which is also in the quote of me that you used, dunno if u read it all) that says regardless whoever thinks what, almost all the people participating the research seem to be aware of the fact that TPV is used to exploit in game, which can be called "cheating". It is not like people call it "hacking". I fail to understand why people would feel offended by that saying.. It is a feature of the game, not a bug or glitch, therefore not bannable as well. However, if you would use something for something that is not meant to be used that way, then it can be called exploit, whereas cheating.

-No one has ever used (afaik) the term of "cheating" when discussing the proper use of the TPV, but discussing the improper use of it instead.

 

 

FP camp = people who want to rid the game of 3rd or want to severely nerf it.

Seeing around obstacles and looking for potential threats = proper use.

I may have clicked on the wrong link or something but I didn't see anything about using 3rd person to "cheat" when I voted.  If you'd like, I'd be happy to dig up some videos on info on how the wording of polls manipulate the outcome.

Edited August 27, 2013 by SausageKingofChicago

[SoulHunter (DayZ) 233]

 

 

FP camp = people who want to rid the game of 3rd or want to severely nerf it.

Seeing around obstacles and looking for potential threats = proper use.

I may have clicked on the wrong link or something but I didn't see anything about using 3rd person to "cheat" when I voted.  If you'd like, I'd be happy to dig up some videos on info on how the wording of polls manipulate the outcome.

You used a quote of me. I thought you were talking to me back then. All is ok.

You have no right to say that. It is all your opinion. You cannot claim as it is like a literal fact. Research showed that many people think the opposite, which does not also mean that what they think is also right.

Exactly.

That has nothing to do with the subject nor the point we were at, but thanks for the offer though.

[terrvik 2409]

I thought the poll was quite neutrally (is that even a word?) worded, or am I missing something? Maybe my opinion is moot since I'm in the FP camp. :)

But seriously, what did I miss? It's 6AM and I'm out of coffee...

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

You used a quote of me. I thought you were talking to me back then. All is ok.

You have no right to say that. It is all your opinion. You cannot claim as it is like a literal fact. Research showed that many people think the opposite, which does not also mean that what they think is also right.

Exactly.

That has nothing to do with the subject nor the point we were at, but thanks for the offer though.

 

 

heh

 

"research"?  How many people again?

 

Supply said link.

 

Has plenty to do with it, supply link.

[droznig 20]

Personally I consider third person view a cheat, I absolutely hate using it, but for about a year now there has been only one UK servers which don't have it turned on and that server if it is even still there at peak time for about 4 hours a week will have maybe 10 players, the rest of the time it's completely empty or only 1-2 players, and many of those players that do come on I know for a fact got their gear from 3rdp servers. From my perspective, since I'm limited to fpv and they get their gear using 3dp, those people compared to me have an unfair advantage in gear alone which is the very definition of cheating.

 

Yes I consider it cheating. I hate 3dp, I understand the reasons that some people like it, I don't agree with them but I understand them. If people want to play a game on easy or with hacks, that's fine that's their own prerogative, but when them picking easy affects me when I pick whatever setting I want to play, that's a huge problem for me and it prevents me from playing my favorite game, which is the bottom line.

 

Another problem I have with this whole situation is that I know 3dp players generally use fpv to shoot and do certain other things, so I know they can use it and know how to use it, I on the other hand never use 3dp, so asking 3dp players to come over to fpv is not a huge ask since it's already an integral part of their game play style, but forcing people like me to play 3rd person which realistically is the only way i could keep playing on current servers and play with people is a huge ask and it annoys me that people can't see that.

 

I've been pretty civil in all these threads, but you have to understand I hold 3dp advocates responsible for me not being able to play my favorite game.

[SoulHunter (DayZ) 233]

"research"?  How many people again?

 

Supply said link.

 

Has plenty to do with it, supply link.

370 people until now. 133 people also here. So 503 people in total.

 

I already explained the reasoning of it. Do you think it is that easy to change hundreds of people's mind? Just giving them an opportunity to be aware of the reason why these polls and such community activities appear? I also gave an exact literal example for the case. I myself am a TPV user. But I'd like to play the game in FPV. Like many people in the community (as can be seen). Most of the people that voted for FPV use TPV in the mod, the points of which I already elaborated though.. Not sure why I am in need to explain all these points over and over again.

 

If you didn't see anything about using 3rd person to "cheat" when you voted it is then a good thing. Thanks for reminding people that there is a video link in the poll as informing of the case, which has but nothing to do with what you wrote back then.

 

Again, people are not that stupid. Especially the ones in reddit. Their minds could not be changed very easily..

Edited August 27, 2013 by SoulHunter

[Wayze 549]

370 people until now. 133 people also here. So 503 people in total.

 

I already explained the reasoning of it. Do you think it is that easy to change hundreds of people's mind? Just giving them an opportunity to be aware of the reason why these polls and such community activities appear? I also gave an exact literal example for the case. I myself am a TPV user. But I'd like to play the game in FPV. Like many people in the community (as can be seen). Most of the people that voted for FPV use TPV in the mod, the points of which I already elaborated though.. Not sure why I am in need to explain all these points over and over again.

 

If you didn't see anything about using 3rd person to "cheat" when you voted it is then a good thing. Thanks for reminding people that there is a video link in the poll as informing of the case, which has but nothing to do with what you wrote back then.

 

Again, people are not that stupid. Especially the ones in reddit. Their minds could not be changed very easily..

Yes, but now we just need to Dean to realise that. To realise that we, the hardcore community, don't want any third person anymore. He has to see the polls, otherwise he will implement it anyway.

[dgeesio 1034]

Yes, but now we just need to Dean to realise that. To realise that we, the hardcore community, don't want any third person anymore. He has to see the polls, otherwise he will implement it anyway.

polls mean nothing

 

if i ran this site the result could be whatever i wanted internet polls dont mean its a true reflection.

 

also every person against 3rd person is so biased and nearly all list as a exploit just to try and justify there decision.

 

 

at end of day rocket or whever just do what you going to do but if it is removed get ready for a whole shit storm to come here.

 

 

cant wait to see what people want gone next. purists trying to make a popular game for a minority it doesnt work ! suprised weapons havent been voted to be removed yet and we use sticks and only drink rain water.

 

before people laugh it will probably come from those very same people who vote the exact same way.

 

 

 

just remember a game needs to remain fun first ! first thing that happens with games like this and the purists theyll suck every drop out of it after seemingly good logic from the "authority" on the game. they dnt see the simple its just fun to play aspect but lok to deep into messing with things.

 

you dont need to do this and do that often if its very popular it has the magic and all you end up doing is killing that magic and simpleness that made the game fun and what made everyone play it originally.

 

 

seen it a million times with many games i test . i hope this isnt the next game to fall in the trap of the could of been fun but was ruined at the last step by people who dont want a game catered for fun or the masses.

[wild_man 4442]

polls mean nothing

 

 

no surprise what side of debate you are :D

 

'fun', guys always say 'fun' thousand vehicles is fun, spawn with AS50 is 'fun'

 

maybe is fun but is belong dayz? if you think yes you miss point of dayz

 

I tell you something - first times I play dayz was not 'fun' like traditional game :o

 

was like strange hell and make me scare and angry and confuse but was most intense experience ever in one game :thumbsup:  :D

 

'Fun' is not good argue for 3rd person because this kind of fun don't belong in apocalypse.

 

 

Dayz 'fun' come at price of suffer and fear time.

 

is no fear in 3rd person, is like skip through flower fields sing 'what a beautiful day'

[tommes 331]

cant wait to see what people want gone next. purists trying to make a popular game for a minority it doesnt work ! suprised weapons havent been voted to be removed yet and we use sticks and only drink rain water.

 

before people laugh it will probably come from those very same people who vote the exact same way.

That's exactly why someone with the right state of mind has to govern wisely and not give in to any bullshit the masses whine about.

  

just remember a game needs to remain fun first ! first thing that happens with games like this and the purists theyll suck every drop out of it after seemingly good logic from the "authority" on the game. they dnt see the simple its just fun to play aspect but lok to deep into messing with things.

Having something ridiculous as TPV is breaking the fun for me. At least partly.

And what is the reasoning behind it:

I need that.

I have the choice.

I am in the majority.

I can't play otherwise.

A lot of I...

the FPV lot argues like that: It's better!

[terrvik 2409]

Games doesn't need to be fun. Are horror games or movies "fun"? :)

[dgeesio 1034]

played dayz very early on since development i actually like minimal gear and rather have a hunter gather type game but as said what happens with many games is the great recipe as it evolves is often messed with trying to get that perfect game and ruins what you had in the first place which was simple and worked.

 

just because something isnt as graphically great or isnt as could be doesnt mean its not great sometimes the actual idea created by the player of the thing that maybe missing is actually better than trying to acheive what you cant in the players brain.

 

so the devs make that awesome blah blah say its here we done it when maybe without that and as it was orginally was the players brain made that sequence himself and it was always better than any created content.

 

those who get what i mean and understand how some games are developed will understand this.

 

 

3rd person can give a advantage but when its used by alot or even more than another (1st person ) in general in normal play what concequences are going to happen once you remove or alter it ?

 

is it worth doing ? is the time and effort and the end result going to be better than not leaving it as it is put the effort into more pressing issues just to cater for the minority of purists ?

 

 

while i understand some see only exploit i see many good things when using it which arnt exploits and use it more than first person .

 

running for eg is ten times better and seems faster in 3rd. seeing as you spend 90 percent travelling on foot is this not a reason within its self ?

fov and gun movement is better with camera behind you when running and not as disorientatinrg as first person.

3rd person also gives you a world presence better, the map seems more open and bigger in 3rd than in first. this gives the game more depth.

 

some people cant play  1st person due to motion sickness. yet another prime example,

 

so its not all its not exploit this and that its just the different views give things to the game. 3rd person gives more positive than negitive.

 

only reason i choose to go 1st person is for fighting gun battles that is it as its often more accurate rest is done in 3rd person.

 

 

thing is all this is is different camera views so if one view was used and just made that view alterable maybe we could forget all this bs arguing and get on with just killing zombies "infected " and playing and having fun.

[droznig 20]

polls mean nothing

 

if i ran this site the result could be whatever i wanted internet polls dont mean its a true reflection.

 

also every person against 3rd person is so biased and nearly all list as a exploit just to try and justify there decision.

 

 

at end of day rocket or whever just do what you going to do but if it is removed get ready for a whole shit storm to come here.

 

 

cant wait to see what people want gone next. purists trying to make a popular game for a minority it doesnt work ! suprised weapons havent been voted to be removed yet and we use sticks and only drink rain water.

 

before people laugh it will probably come from those very same people who vote the exact same way.

 

 

 

just remember a game needs to remain fun first ! first thing that happens with games like this and the purists theyll suck every drop out of it after seemingly good logic from the "authority" on the game. they dnt see the simple its just fun to play aspect but lok to deep into messing with things.

 

you dont need to do this and do that often if its very popular it has the magic and all you end up doing is killing that magic and simpleness that made the game fun and what made everyone play it originally.

 

 

seen it a million times with many games i test . i hope this isnt the next game to fall in the trap of the could of been fun but was ruined at the last step by people who dont want a game catered for fun or the masses.

 

I'm not even going to. You are making a complete fool of yourself. Try harder.

[jaytmuk (DayZ) 621]

A 1st person only Dayz would be suicide for Dayz tbh.

Far better to have both and give server owners the choice.

 

[SoulHunter (DayZ) 233]

Games doesn't need to be fun. Are horror games or movies "fun"? :)

They are! >>.<<

[Shadow Man 142]

Hmm its the old "fun" argument.

 

Fun is such a pointless word sometimes. If I think about some games I've played, its about an experience. Much like watching a horror film I do it because it messes with my brain, it makes me feel anxious, nervous, uneasy or even scared, despite me being sat in my living room in front of a screen.

 

The experience dayz was meant to provide was not meant to give a shit about fun. If people want to put their mind through a torturing ordeal then thats their choice.

 

If you see someone playing the original slender, or even better scp containment breach, those games are hardly what you call fun, its harrowing. But people love it, they like to torture their minds for some reason. Dayz shoud be in the same category if you ask me. Fuck fun, SCARE ME GOD DAMMIT!

[mercules 1290]

Up next, a poll about side chat, 1000+ vehicle servers, and civvy weapons.

 

 

 

It would be nice if the FP camp would quit using the term "cheat" when discussing the proper use of the third person camera.   It only serves to inflame others and probably has a lot to do with the overall tone of these debates.

 

I stated "Exploit" which it is. You exploit TPV to gain more situational awareness than you in your avatar's position would have. In some games it is fine if we are all knowing or have more information than our avatar's should. In others such as Horror Simulations with a Combat Aspect(AKA DayZ) FPV can enhance you feeling of vulnerability which is what a Horror Sim and survive style game SHOULD be aiming for. 

Cheat is breaking the rules. Exploit is using the rules to maximum potential in a manner not necessarily intended. I don't think it was intended for people to lay down on a roof and magically watch other people at street level with a disembodied camera so they can shoot them when they look away. To back up my belief we have Dean stating he wants to correct that style of play. Need more evidence that it is not what he intended?

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

I'm locking this for now to focus the discussion here:  http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/145895-first-vs-third-person-discussion-dslyecxi-video/

 

I would merge but that just gets messy.