First vs Third Person Discussion (Dslyecxi video)

[Wayze 549]

Just had this gunfight where we were each on the other side of a small crest of ground. We were both behind cover, yet could see each other at the same time. We couldn't flank, couldn't move away or do anything without the other person knowing. I was moving left and right, his head was following. I got sick of it, stuck my head over and tried to take a shot with my piece of shit shotgun, he killed me firing in third person with his DMR. A really weird stand off only possible with third person.

Yes, sadly what you describe is most combat situations in DayZ. Both just wait who moves first. As Frankie said in his last video, this is something that makes DayZ really boring in that matter. It is just not dynamic anymore.

[Jex 1104]

But I think also in real life it is not easy to actually hide yourself as good as in DayZ. Even with a ghillie suit, as an amateur you would have big problems with creating the illusion of camoflage.

 

It's way easier to hide in rl than in dayz. For one thing the foliage doesn't disappear after 100m.

[Jex 1104]

Yes, I played softair. We had our own ghillie suits, but that is because we had time to make them, we were having ghillie suits to actually hide from each other. I don't think that people in the apocalypse will have the time to make their own ghillie suits and even if they had they would not walk around with these things because it is unpractical and awfully hot in there. Also you need to specialise your camo at new locations, everytime. This is something that does not work out in a game.

Also, you as a paintball player are probably more into this combat stuff than an average citizen. They don't know how to make a ghillie suit and probably they wouldn't even bother.

 

Also paintball is something completly different from a real combat situation. The adrenalin is over the top and you are just scared as sh*t. I know from expirience that stuff like paintball gives you adrenaline too, but this is simply nothing compared to "real life". It does not really unlock your survival instincts, the fear is not high enough to get your body focused on survival, which means better peripheric sight etc.

You have a huge advantage, because you are in camo. But if you made a mistake, which happens pretty easy if you are an amateur, it means nothing else than your death. If you think nobody can see you, it could get a problem.

 

And the last point is that in DayZ you can hide as good as in real life, in a shorter time you can do it better than you actually would be able. Just run into a pinetree and you are perfectly safe, with a ghillie suit you are invisible. I don't think you need third person for that.

 

 

You don't need a ghillie suit to be camouflaged and dayz is not like rl at all! Where do you get this from?? I can spot a survivor skin laying under a tree at 400m not even zoomed in like he had a sign over him. Camo isn't much better and is easy to test - get a mate to hide under a tree 300m away and see how invisible he is laying under it.

 

One other point, the adrenaline you feel is 10 times more on a FPV server :P

[Jex 1104]

You cannot just pick one argument out of my post and then respond to it. A normal citizen who did not play egoshooters or watch military videos will not even think about a ghillie suit. There are too many things they have to concern about like: food, safety, food, weapons, food, food, food...

Most people probably don't even know what a ghillie suit looks like or what it is. It is not as simple as you think. Like I said, you were playing paintball, you cannot compare this to any real life combat situation. The guys you played with were also amateurs I assume? Well, in a zombie survival scenario the amateurs will be wiped out at first. If there are some left they have to adapt very fast. They don't rush through a forest having fun and shooting with paint bullets. They fight for survival and you should never unterrastimate people who do that.

 

 

You are totally right, break up your form. This is the most important part, but I bet you read exactly that in a book. 99% of human population don't know anything about "breaking up your form", it is simple but it is not obvious to everybody.

 

And again, real combat is totally different from a game. What you do mainly is just observing your surroundings. I am pretty sure if the guys you played against were careful enough they would have seen you. It is not like you watch 2 mins and then move up. It is more like you observe 30 mins and then move up. In that time they are pretty much able to locate every amateur camo, if it is not very luckily made.

 

Anyways, you had a camo which you prepared at home. In a combat situation where you have to get into cover and camo yourself within seconds or minutes I bet you would not be able to do it. Nobody walks around in a ghillie if he is not preparing for observation or combat. It is used for snipers or ambushes, but not for long distance walks. And as we all know, DayZ is kind of about long distance walks.

 

But that was not the point in this discussion. Someone said he could not camo himself good because of first person, which is in my opinion not the case. You can camo really well and even in real life you are not always aware of being exposed. This is an issue that is not based on first person, but it gets solved by third person which is again, totally unrealistic.

 

First rule of camo is -

 

 

"movement kills"

 

I could tell you a story which would fit in very neatly with this but I cba to write it out :)

[Jamz 253]

I thought it was more that TPV couldn't be fixed in a way that you couldn't exploit so why even bother trying?

 

I think the issue never would have come up if there was never a 3rd option to begin with. If that's true then there should really be no issue now if it goes 1st person only.

 

Well that is true, if there was never TPV then nobody would be arguing for it, but it's in so it's too late now. I've played FPV games as my view of choice since Wolfenstein 3D and I can't think of any other similar game that I've played online in TPV. In fact other than RPG's/MMO's there is none. I've always played FPV because it's actually the view I prefer for any game which involves shooting things.

 

BUT I think DayZ is different to all those games. To me it's a new genre, a combination of other game types and I found that for me TPV actually suits the feel of it better than FPV. That's not to say it's the only view I ever or would ever use and if it was removed then I would play FPV. What I'm dead against is removing it without at least trying to mod TPV and fix the issues, to me that's lazy and the players who play TPV are owed more than that. The whole point is trying, if it doesn't work then so be it. I'd like to see what they come up with.

[Jex 1104]

Crazy idea, observe others.

 

Shoot them first though so you can witness the limping and bleeding animation first hand! :D

[Jex 1104]

In my opinion the animations look pretty bad. It is probably because of the engine, it seems that it is not easy to get animations working decent. Anyway, the game is not about watching the animations, but more about having an immersive expirience. Isn't DayZ about your story? But, if you are in third person, does it really seem like your story, or maybe just the one of your character?

 

Do you ever read or watch anything? Your posts are so uniformed sometimes I think you pull things out of the air half the time. The animations are placeholders, they're still working on them.

[Jex 1104]

I agree that 1st person is more intense. Didnt i just say that in the earlier post? No need of proof for that, lol. And in my opininon DayZ is FAR FROM HORROR GAME. DayZ is a survival "adventure" game with roleplaying elements (with out character development). Yes, there is horror moments and yes, there is shooter action. These two are making the survival adventure experience richer. If this was a horror game it would be, or rather should be way different, much different.

 

I'd like to see more horror aspect added to it. I played on Namalsk recently, I was the only person on the server but one of those demon bloodsucker things I could hear in the woods. Because they had name tags on I picked it up and all I could see was

 

MAN 42m

MAN 41m

MAN 40m

MAN 39m

 

I turned and ran for it, it was night, I'm running up hill. I look behind me as I running as I hear it roar and all I see is a pair of glowing eyes - the thing is invisible (I didn't know this then), it scared the crap out of me. I thought I'll lose it running up (well walking) a steep hill....nope...I didn't last much longer.

 

That was probably the first time in DayZ the AI had actually excited me enough to say it was a really awesome experience. The new sounds in BP i think it is can scare the crap out of you only because they're so loud but not really the same effect.

 

I'd like DayZ to incorporate more horror aspect to make it more interesting. I don't want it to be a case of irritating zeds stopping you from looting. Maybe they could make the zombies look more gross and scary too - they're not that good right now.

[Ken Bean 174]

There have been a lot of valid arguments. The problem is rather that those are completely disregarded.

That's why I got a little stroppy here. The opposition is either to dumb or simply unwilling to agree to anything. How are you supposed to have a civilized discussion like that? You don't.

 

The ones following this thread...well, there's no one else left anyway... might have noticed a thin slice of despise in my words against the TPV lovers here from time to time. That's not without a reason. I'll illustrate once more with a little story.

 

I don't have much time to play but managed to do so for a couple of hours last sunday evening and yesterday as well. Tried DayZero Podagorsk for the first time on a 3DP off server. Played alone there for a while when an old gaming buddy, whith whom I used to play DayZ back in summer 2012 came online. At some point he wandered off to WarZ, found there some buddies and they formed a clan there, mostly PvP oriented. I had no interest in any of that. In fact I'd rather remove my eyelashes with pincers than going so low as to waste time AND money on such a pile of dung. At some point they jumped off WarZ again back to DayZ. Well, he skyped me to join their Teamspeak and play with them which I did. Well, guess what! Those guys played on one of those 500+ vehicles + custom bases with loads of weapons and donator packs servers, which almost every one of them had, mostly for PvP...well that means they go some place with their AS50s and shoot anything in sight and talk a lot of crap while doing that. They enjoyed themselves. I got bored quickly despite a few action packed moments with like others trying to crash helis in our spot and stuff like that. Logged off for the night. Next evening I went lonewolfing on Podagorsk again. Had some fun. Had to log off because server restart. The buddy came on and I joined his group again. Same game as last night.

 

Conclusion:

 

I despised WarZ. Therefore I despise people playing it because they obviously don't have something like standards and decency of gaming. Meeting some of those validated my prejudice...now it's not a prejudice anymore. People gaming shit must be a little shitty too. You can't play with shit without getting a little dirty. And if you're dirty, you probably played with shit too. 

That's why I tend to despise people a little who enjoy playing shitty video games.

 

Regarding TPV I have to say that I didn't miss it much on Podagorsk. On the DayShit Server TPV was enabled of course. I did some whoring too, but I don't feel comfortable in TPV in general anymore and only felt to switch to it for looking at the new skin of my character and some whoring while beeing shot at or driving a vehicle. Looting even goes better in FPV because you can aim at the loot piles decently. Always had my problems with that in TPV. You can play DayZ almost perfectly while in FPV and especially driving vehicles and flying choppers is much more fun that way despite beeing somewhat more challenging.

 

Play like a man! Play in FPV! You might finally have a reason to feel good about yourself.

 

No idea what you just said. Real man don't dance?

I'd say: Real man can play in first and in third person. Now what's with your theory? Do you feel like being dirted by us or do you want to compromise us?

Edited September 10, 2013 by Ken Bean

[St. Jimmy 1631]

I'd like to see more horror aspect added to it. I played on Namalsk recently, I was the only person on the server but one of those demon bloodsucker things I could hear in the woods. Because they had name tags on I picked it up and all I could see was

 

MAN 42m

MAN 41m

MAN 40m

MAN 39m

 

I turned and ran for it, it was night, I'm running up hill. I look behind me as I running as I hear it roar and all I see is a pair of glowing eyes - the thing is invisible (I didn't know this then), it scared the crap out of me. I thought I'll lose it running up (well walking) a steep hill....nope...I didn't last much longer.

 

That was probably the first time in DayZ the AI had actually excited me enough to say it was a really awesome experience. The new sounds in BP i think it is can scare the crap out of you only because they're so loud but not really the same effect.

 

I'd like DayZ to incorporate more horror aspect to make it more interesting. I don't want it to be a case of irritating zeds stopping you from looting. Maybe they could make the zombies look more gross and scary too - they're not that good right now.

Yep those Bloodsuckers are pretty scary. Would love something like this as a very rare encounter.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

Exactly - it isn't an issue there, it's not an issue here - it's a fabricated issue. People will play the SA in FPV if that's what it ships as as the polls that have been run indicate.

 

Folks would of course play DayZ if it was FPV only. Folks would also still play DayZ if 3dp was the only option. The difference is, a vocal portion of FPVers would strart this same bitching session again. :P

I tend to use FPV, even when on 3dp servers, because I prefer it that way. Some of the folks I play with when I group up would have a hard time adjusting, however, and I can appreciate that. So I make a point of poking holes in ridiculous false logic and making it clear when someone is talking shit.

The point of this topic was discussion.

 

If someone can support their side of the argument without bare-faced lying about advantages/disadvantages(Wayze), or using their personal opinion as their only evidence(other folks), they're part of a "civilized discussion".

As has been said, Shack-Tac play in FPV, BUT with crosshairs enabled and a team-spotting radar. :huh:

That, in my opinion, is not the most engaging or immersive way to play. It's their preference though, so I don't try and shout them down for it.

I would like to see a resolution which benefits THE GAME. Not myself personally. And not any one individual.

[dsi24 227]

Folks would of course play DayZ if it was FPV only. Folks would also still play DayZ if 3dp was the only option. The difference is, a vocal portion of FPVers would strart this same bitching session again. :P

I tend to use FPV, even when on 3dp servers, because I prefer it that way. Some of the folks I play with when I group up would have a hard time adjusting, however, and I can appreciate that. So I make a point of poking holes in ridiculous false logic and making it clear when someone is talking shit.

The point of this topic was discussion.

 

If someone can support their side of the argument without bare-faced lying about advantages/disadvantages(Wayze), or using their personal opinion as their only evidence(other folks), they're part of a "civilized discussion".

As has been said, Shack-Tac play in FPV, BUT with crosshairs enabled and a team-spotting radar. :huh:

That, in my opinion, is not the most engaging or immersive way to play. It's their preference though, so I don't try and shout them down for it.

I would like to see a resolution which benefits THE GAME. Not myself personally. And not any one individual.

I really doubt that, no iron-sights or scopes? Yeah right; it wouldn't even feel similar to the game as it currently is. The more I think about it the worse it sounds... it'd be like WoW but without the easy-to-use attack commands.

 

Also it should be noted that they play without the crosshair pipper, just the general crosshair zone. The pipper tracks exactly where your next shot will go, really stupid, the outside bits just tell you the general location your barrel is pointed, which is easy to tell in real life but hard to do without 3D vision in a game. The radar also only works for your fireteam within 20m, not your whole team :p

 

Also it should be noted that nearly every reason to get rid of TPV was posted either in Dslyecxi's vid or within the first few pages of this thread (for the DayZ specific things). The TPV supporters meanwhile drum up lies at worst ("oh but the FoV is better!") and redundant claims of vanity at best. ("oh I like to see my character!" "huh? the gear menu? but...")

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

Wut?

3dp doesn't stop you using ironsights or scopes.

 

Shack-Tac don't need you to whiteknight for them.

 

Selective perception is running rampant around here.

 

EDIT:

spelling

Edited September 11, 2013 by Chabowski

[tommes 331]

Folks would also still play DayZ if 3dp was the only option.

 

I wouldn't.

[RooBurger 285]

DayZ is possibly the best gaming experience I've ever had. For this I thank Rocket and totally respect what he and the team is doing.

 

But honestly, I'm looking forward to other games which will be released in the future which are inspired by DayZ and first person only.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

I wouldn't.

Well that's just sad.

 

No doubt there are plenty of petty folks who would drop DayZ like a hot tattie if they didn't get their way. But there's a LOT more to it than just the FPV/3dp.

The way DayZ is turning out is such a break from the norm ATM that I just don't see how picking one perspective over another should be a deal-breaker for anyone seriously interested in the basic concept.

 

EDIT:

Maybe there's just some fundamental difference in the way we're all looking at the game and it's development.

It's pretty much impossible to come at this without preconception of some sort

 

Anyway. I'm not finding this subject so interesting now.

I think I'll bow out while the seas are still reasonably calm.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Chabowski

[RooBurger 285]

The same basic concept without 3P will probably take my money. I hate saying that as I'm a massive fan, but invisible periscope firefights really are that annoying to me.

[aeinola 25]

The TPV supporters meanwhile drum up lies at worst ("oh but the FoV is better!") and redundant claims of vanity at best. ("oh I like to see my character!" "huh? the gear menu? but...")

Are my points lies?

1. 1st person view is unrealistically limited and if they would fix it i would prefer FPV over TPV.

2. 3rd person view has its exploits and it is unrealistic. I can live with that over FPV limitations. (I rather see more than i should vs less than i should)

3. When im defending/playing TPV im not talking about crossahirs, nametags or playing without ironsights/scopes. I ran around TPV but i wont get any other help, i have to shoot with sights unless the target is like few feet from me.

4. There should be option to choose from FPV and TPV. Those who WANT to play FPV can play on 1st person only servers. FPV should be fixed and properly promoted to get more players.

5. I dont have fair solution for those who want to play FPV only and with friends that wont play FPV only. Makes me feel bad for these people.

 

Its fun to repeat myself all over again and again and again... 200 pages in september?

[tommes 331]

Well that's just sad.

I wouldn't cry. I'm just not interested in TPV only games.

 

Are my points lies?

1. 1st person view is unrealistically limited and if they would fix it i would prefer FPV over TPV.

2. 3rd person view has its exploits and it is unrealistic. I can live with that over FPV limitations. (I rather see more than i should vs less than i should)

3. When im defending/playing TPV im not talking about crossahirs, nametags or playing without ironsights/scopes. I ran around TPV but i wont get any other help, i have to shoot with sights unless the target is like few feet from me.

4. There should be option to choose from FPV and TPV. Those who WANT to play FPV can play on 1st person only servers. FPV should be fixed and properly promoted to get more players.

5. I dont have fair solution for those who want to play FPV only and with friends that wont play FPV only. Makes me feel bad for these people.

 

Its fun to repeat myself all over again and again and again... 200 pages in september?

 

Those are mostly not point but your personal opinion. I could only validate 2 points:

1. FPV is limited compared to reality

2. TPV is unrealistic and exploitable

 

My opinion is that I can live with the limitations of FPV as in any other FPV game while the exploitation of TPV really is annoying at times.

 

That you like and maybe prefer using TPV is your preference and wasn't ever debated. However what is debated is the promotion of choice. We do have choice at present. That lead to many players choosing horrible things and to the existence and maybe even domination of this joke version of DayZ fun deatchmatch. So choice is good? No! Not always. Often enough choice has to be limited by some authority to prevent bad things to happen. Especially in competitive games or sports this is a must which is not debated by anyone.

 

You sure must have fun repeating yourself. If you would just choose to stop that and for once understand the mechanics of decent and fair gaming. Choice is good! Or is it?

[aeinola 25]

I wouldn't cry. I'm just not interested in TPV only games.

 

 

Those are mostly not point but your personal opinion. I could only validate 2 points:

1. FPV is limited compared to reality

2. TPV is unrealistic and exploitable

 

My opinion is that I can live with the limitations of FPV as in any other FPV game while the exploitation of TPV really is annoying at times.

 

That you like and maybe prefer using TPV is your preference and wasn't ever debated. However what is debated is the promotion of choice. We do have choice at present. That lead to many players choosing horrible things and to the existence and maybe even domination of this joke version of DayZ fun deatchmatch. So choice is good? No! Not always. Often enough choice has to be limited by some authority to prevent bad things to happen. Especially in competitive games or sports this is a must which is not debated by anyone.

 

You sure must have fun repeating yourself. If you would just choose to stop that and for once understand the mechanics of decent and fair gaming. Choice is good! Or is it?

So let me get this right. If there was only FPV people would stop hosting this joke version of DayZ fun deathmatch? Or people stop playing KoS PvP? And tell me how i dont understand the mechanics of decent and fair gaming? And how is these things a FPV vs TPV issue?

[tommes 331]

So let me get this right. If there was only FPV people would stop hosting this joke version of DayZ fun deathmatch? Or people stop playing KoS PvP? And tell me how i dont understand the mechanics of decent and fair gaming? And how is these things a FPV vs TPV issue?

 

People would not make bad choices if there wouldn't be any. That was the point.

[aeinola 25]

People would not make bad choices if there wouldn't be any. That was the point.

Why you dont answer my questions? This happens a lot at this forum so often.

Edited September 11, 2013 by aeinola

[Jamz 253]

 That lead to many players choosing horrible things

 

People would not make bad choices if there wouldn't be any. That was the point.

 

So do you see that this is just your opinion?

[terrvik 2409]

This thread is still just an excuse to insult eachother and argue about semantics? Someone PM me when proper discussion returns, I very much enjoyed it back when there was some.

 

For the record I would throw all interest for the game out the window if it was announced to be third person only. Actually I would probably do the same if it were announced that there would be no FPV only servers as well. I want to survive and die based on how I perform, not on how well I can manipulate a camera.

[tommes 331]

Why you dont answer my questions? This happens a lot at this forum so often.

 

I did. You obviously failed to understand.