First vs Third Person Discussion (Dslyecxi video)

[Inception. 9443]

People are stating that the game is hardcore if you want to play first person which is obvious bollocks. I then pointed out how absurd this is by using examples.

 

I was saying that not every game that is in 1st person is hardcore, nor that having first person view makes the game hardcore.

[Jex 1104]

Uhm...and where's the bullshit you are referring to? I just said, that playing DayZ in 1st person only is somewhat more hardcore than using the crutch of 3rd person view for personal comfort. That's all. You must have misunderstood something.

 

The BS is saying that playing 1st person is hardcore to begin with. It isn't anywhere near "hardcore". Also people use 3rd person as an exploit, not just for comfort.

[tommes 331]

There's no BS. Playing FPV only is MORE "hardcore" than using TPV (for personal comfort or exploiting...whatever).

TPV was implemented for personal comfort.

 

Viewpoints may vary due to no universal definition of the term "hardcore" but restricting oneself to use FPV only in DayZ is somewhat hardcore to me. The majority of players seem to avoid that at all cost mostly because of personal comfort. For me it's pretty obvious who to call more hardcore...

[brzator47@gmail.com 524]

Yeah but there is nothing hardcore about first person view by itself. By calling it "hardcore" some people seem to be implying first person view is a feature for a select group of weirdos who want to play in an ultra realistic way when in reality first person should just be "normal" mode.

[tommes 331]

Well, it's only "hardcore" because it's running like shit.

But you are right. It's more like using 3rd person view is softcore. 1st person view only should be considered the normal thing.

[Jex 1104]

There's no BS. Playing FPV only is MORE "hardcore" than using TPV (for personal comfort or exploiting...whatever).

TPV was implemented for personal comfort.

 

Viewpoints may vary due to no universal definition of the term "hardcore" but restricting oneself to use FPV only in DayZ is somewhat hardcore to me. The majority of players seem to avoid that at all cost mostly because of personal comfort. For me it's pretty obvious who to call more hardcore...

 

Yes as much as cycling to the shops is more extreme than sitting at home and ordering it online. You would hardly call someone more "extreme" because they chose to cycle - the point is, it's a non issue.

[Jex 1104]

Well, it's only "hardcore" because it's running like shit.

But you are right. It's more like using 3rd person view is softcore. 1st person view only should be considered the normal thing.

 

Yes you both get it :)

 

How is it running like shit though? Do you mean frame rates?

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

Perhaps when in rest state in a built up area could be just in first person, so a player would have to head into the wild to see themselves? It might have the added bonus of getting people out of the city once in a while if they camp there? Also there could be a TPV just for foot travel locked to an autorun function but without mouselook, so you could use numberpad to look around while travelling.

 

I'm personally not a fan of any type of autorun.   

 

If the rest state required sitting still for 15 minutes in a city and only a few minutes in the wilderness then I don't see a lot of abuse coming from it in towns.   I also don't see a lot of people using the rest state in a town if the zombies are hardcore.  I also suggest having some type of stance limit on the rest state.  We don't want a guy to get on top of a building just to sit still for 15 minutes to get a prone rest state that sweeps the area.  That wouldn't really help.

 

Perhaps a view distance change could accompany the rest state?   Or to use a part of an earlier suggestion, only objects within a certain distance would render in the rest state?

Edited September 4, 2013 by SausageKingofChicago

[tommes 331]

Yes you both get it :)

 

How is it running like shit though? Do you mean frame rates?

 

Yes, mostly because of framerates. With enough fps you could quickpeek left and right as you do in other FPS games to compensate for the limited FOV. With less than 20 fps, as pretty normal in major settlements in DayZ, that feels horrible.

 

As I stated in that other thread, "hardcore" implies some sort of significantly more than average quality of involvement in the respective activity. A casual poker player is not considered hardcore by anyone. If you really play a lot and make serious money from it that changes.

[tommes 331]

I'm personally not a fan of any type of autorun.   

 

If the rest state required sitting still for 15 minutes in a city and only a few minutes in the wilderness then I don't see a lot of abuse coming from it in towns.   I also don't see a lot of people using the rest state in a town if the zombies are hardcore.  I also suggest having some type of stance limit on the rest state.  We don't want a guy to get on top of a building just to sit still for 15 minutes to get a prone rest state that sweeps the area.  That wouldn't really help.

 

Perhaps a view distance change could accompany the rest state?   Or to use a part of an earlier suggestion, only objects within a certain distance would render in the rest state?

 

I guess some sort of encumbrance system has to be implemented in DayZ anyway which would have you recover from long runs and other stuff.

[big_t 66]

Baloney. This thread is full of that, referenced by "hardcore," "easy," "difficult," "cheating" and "exploit."

Many references to 1P being "the real hard core DayZ players."

It's rife with arrogant supporters of 1P puffing their feathers, and degrading others.

.......

But the whining ain't gonna stop. Ever.

 

1rst person is a more true and hardcore way of playing, it mimics much closer to the way we see in real life.

 

 

3rd person uses a crutch of unrealistic vision to exploit and "make it easy on me"

 

 

 

so yeah 1rst person is for more true hardcore players, the uber elite if you will. It must be hard to deal with that reality. But the brutal and self reflecting question that needs answering is: 

 

"why do I really like 3rds person?"

 

answer:

 

"because it's easier"

 

 

 

 

so sometimes when people open up a part of ourselves that we don't like to think about and admit, we lash out and say "that guy is rude, I'm going to ignore what he said and stay in my comfort zone"   Not really rude, just the cold hard truth and that can sting a little bit.

Edited September 4, 2013 by Big_T

[Jamz 253]

I'm personally not a fan of any type of autorun.   

 

If the rest state required sitting still for 15 minutes in a city and only a few minutes in the wilderness then I don't see a lot of abuse coming from it in towns.   I also don't see a lot of people using the rest state in a town if the zombies are hardcore.  I also suggest having some type of stance limit on the rest state.  We don't want a guy to get on top of a building just to sit still for 15 minutes to get a prone rest state that sweeps the area.  That wouldn't really help.

 

Perhaps a view distance change could accompany the rest state?   Or to use a part of an earlier suggestion, only objects within a certain distance would render in the rest state?

 

Maybe then rest state in a city is fixed to it can't be used to scan the area, also rest state is always sitting or leaning so that it couldn't be used by snipers without being seen, when hiding behind low walls like those of rooftops? Using distance when determining whether to render objects like players and vehicles could be good if it is possible to implement.

 

I wouldn't use an autorun function probably, but would it be exploitable if when at a full run the view panned out to TPV, auto or not?

[Ken Bean 175]

Look at this:

Sued them all for exploiting.
Hence they even pause the game!

Also, totally unimmersive, because it's not first person!
They never learn to make a proper game.

 

I sent them all an email to explain them how wrong they are. I said they play in easy mode and stuff. They just claimed that they like it so. Well, we know better, don't we? It's like growing fat because of lazyness and convenience. They just don't know it better. Choice is not always good. It's also totally unrealistc (Who the hell has a third eye flying around?). That's also not how the apocalypse works. Just grab a gun and camp in a corner. Camp in a corner always works. Oh, and there's no reason why they didn't shot everyone in the face with a jumpshot.

 

 

(Of cause, this was sarcasm. But we also could drop the first person, to get rid of this "built in" shooter weirdness.)

Edited September 4, 2013 by Ken Bean

[brzator47@gmail.com 524]

I wouldn't use an autorun function probably, but would it be exploitable if when at a full run the view panned out to TPV, auto or not?

Probably not, at least not enough to be an issue. Especially if it took a few seconds for the view to switch to third person. It would be a good solution IMO. We'd be able to travel in third person so those who want to look at their character or enjoy the landscape would be happy and looting/sneaking past zombies/combat would be in first person.

[Siberian (DayZ) 527]

 

Your thesis: DayZ is a TPV game because people make it so.

I think you shouldn't let people ruin a genuine game idea with their lazy- and lameness.

 

can u make a single post without insulting the 3rd person crowd ??

 

i think not..

[Wayze 549]

I hope this is part of your roleplaying, otherwise you said some really desturbing things, dude. And I'd really hope that you are far far away if ever such an apacalypse should happen. My instinct probably would be to find other people to survive together. Fear is a bad adviser. Fear of the unknown and stranger makes you switch into "clicky clicky kill kill mode". Maybe the third person cam could help to take your fear or at least ease the stress level a bit?

Btw

I frequently play on 1st and 3rd person server and in the latter case, I sometimes switch. It does't make me less or more hardcore.

Well, "clicky clicky kill kill mode" will be the obviously the normal behavior in such an apocalypse. I think you forgot that you just got 1 life and not unlimited like in DayZ. Maybe you played the game too much, but there is no second chance. If there is just 1 guy who just wants your food, he will kill you. You would be dead, end of story.

You would like to be far, far away from me? I don't know if you have any idea of human behaviour, but extreme situations are followed by extreme behaviour. So you a hero now? You would be brave, have no fear or whatsoever? Dude, it is not a game. You would probably piss yourself, like myself and every other guy in that forum who was not in a situation like that before. We would not just shake from fear, we would be paralized. In the beginning it would probably be ok, you could find a group etc. and I agree, without a group you a screwed, but there will be people, and I guarantee you that, who will even eat human flesh, because they don't want to starve. You should really watch the movie "The Road", it is really good, maybe not 100% realistic but I think that people would act exactly like in that film. And that film was without f*cking zombies. Zombies would even encourage this behavious more.

 

Ease the stress level a bit? For what? This is DayZ, that what it always was about. Go ask Dean, he even stated in an interview that exactly the behaviour of killing someone for food inspired him to make this game.

 

Go play Battlefield or some other sh*t if you want a shooter. This is a survival game, fear is actually the most essential feature of this game.

Edited September 4, 2013 by Wayze

[Jamz 253]

Probably not, at least not enough to be an issue. Especially if it took a few seconds for the view to switch to third person. It would be a good solution IMO. We'd be able to travel in third person so those who want to look at their character or enjoy the landscape would be happy and looting/sneaking past zombies/combat would be in first person.

 

Thats what I was thinking, situations where it's unlikely for there to be an encounter with another player. This way, the sense of anxiety of being in areas where players are regularly found could be hightened by being in FPV. It would become associated with danger in game. When travelling or resting in the wilderness where there are less players and zombies, the player would likely relax more in TPV. That doesn't mean of couse he wouldn't be in danger ;) and he could go into FPV at any time.

[IncognitoNico 71]

Blaa blaah blaah, how many servers YOU need to play? Im sure you can find ONE 1st person only server that suits your needs if not, host one and get all 1st person fan boys to play there. It seems there are lots of them in this forum, should be easy. All of you just cry cry cry and dont do anything about it. Only solution you guys can figure out is to force everyone to play your way and make the game less enjoyable for lots of players. So selfish, shame on you.

Well, I don't have the resources to host a server in my house, nor do I have extra money to pay for one, the problem is not that there isn't a lot of 1st person only, because I only need one to play, but the problem is that since there's not a lot of servers, at least for me, it's impossible to find a populated one with good ping, and don't come out saying that it doesn't need to be populated, because how boring it is to be alone in a 200 sq kilometers world? And no, we are not being selfish, we are trying to convince people to play the way Rocket intended, yes, at first there were only 1st person servers, then people found out that it was easier and less intense to play in 3rd, and trust me, you only think it's less enjoyable because you haven't tried it yet.

[IncognitoNico 71]

 It also helps to keep your cool. I really don't want to be constantly thrilled by super-action-immersion-vis-a-vis-survival-fighting against the *whole everything*.

Then I'm afraid DayZ is not the game for you.... That's pretty much the whole point of the game

[aeinola 25]

Well, I don't have the resources to host a server in my house, nor do I have extra money to pay for one, the problem is not that there isn't a lot of 1st person only, because I only need one to play, but the problem is that since there's not a lot of servers, at least for me, it's impossible to find a populated one with good ping, and don't come out saying that it doesn't need to be populated, because how boring it is to be alone in a 200 sq kilometers world?

So why wont you all go play in the same server? Its like you all stand front of a theme park where you all want to go but you dont want to go there alone so you all just stand there and try to force people in that dont like the theme park so you can go in when there is people inside. And while doing this you are saying "go in, i know you like it, you just dont know it yet"... you guys are kind of dumb arent you?

 

And no, we are not being selfish, we are trying to convince people to play the way Rocket intended, yes, at first there were only 1st person servers, then people found out that it was easier and less intense to play in 3rd.

So why dont you just continue convince people AND STOP FORCING THEM!

 

and trust me, you only think it's less enjoyable because you haven't tried it yet.

This is exactly what im talking about, you 1st person fan boys think you know everything about other players. I enjoy 1st person, i would enjoy it much more than 3rd person if they would fix it. For now the only enjoyable style of play is switching between the views.

[dsi24 227]

 

 

 

A time mechanic could counter that and it would be pretty hard to track targets as the camera slowly panned.   A zombie proximity could even be added.

 

Active fires would almost be a death sentence.

 

Certainly, but a lot of people can't imagine what that'll be like. I know I couldn't. Some of that optimization might be hijacked by additional zombies or rocketisms.

 

 

 

FP shouldn't be locked to any other player action or it'll be heavily abused to detect other players.  If you're chilling in third looking at your fancy pants, a player should absolutely have the ability to sneak up on you, whether he's swinging an axe or not.

 

 

 

I'm personally not a fan of any type of autorun.   

 

If the rest state required sitting still for 15 minutes in a city and only a few minutes in the wilderness then I don't see a lot of abuse coming from it in towns.   I also don't see a lot of people using the rest state in a town if the zombies are hardcore.  I also suggest having some type of stance limit on the rest state.  We don't want a guy to get on top of a building just to sit still for 15 minutes to get a prone rest state that sweeps the area.  That wouldn't really help.

 

Perhaps a view distance change could accompany the rest state?   Or to use a part of an earlier suggestion, only objects within a certain distance would render in the rest state?

Why bother making a rest state timer in towns then? If the whole point of making the timer long is to make players not do it, then why not just not let players do it?

 

The only reason you'd say a campfire is a death sentence is if you're planning on setting up camp near a major town and want to use third person to scout the area. A campfire in the midst of the woods would be hard to find, if you're in a helicopter you can only see the smoke in an area that looks entirely the same, hard to track to and hard to land near, if you're on the ground you can't see the smoke through the trees. Make third person only usable in a 'safe' camp area (as designated by "you thought it was safe enough to light a campfire here") and its fine. If you fucked up and lit a campfire in a town you can eat your mistake, third person lets you know where everyone nearby is, the fire lets everyone nearby know where you are, largely bypassing the asymmetry of information issue that is the whole reason third person needs to go in the first place. (the fire can't tell you how many people are there in the way third person tells you exactly how many are around, so it'd still be better for third person to just go)

 

(PS: its really hilarious how some people are still holding onto "stop forcing them not to exploit the game!")

Edited September 4, 2013 by Dsi1

[IncognitoNico 71]

So why dont you just continue convince people AND STOP FORCING THEM!

Hold on, when did I or anybody else here forced somebody to play on 1st person? We are giving arguments about why we think 1st person only is the way to go to get exactly what rocket planned since the beginning, I don't think any of us hacked into every server and disabled 3rds person did we? We are giving valid points, not forcing anybody to do something. 

[tommes 331]

can u make a single post without insulting the 3rd person crowd ??

 

i think not..

Well, my sympathy for this crowd is hidden behind a wall and I can't look over it.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

Hey, that comeback only took 2 ¹/₂ hours!

 

You're getting better at this.

[tommes 331]

Went to a restaurant. Had a meal. Drove an hour back home. Never switched to TPV once. I'm hardcore 4 life!