First vs Third Person Discussion (Dslyecxi video)

[terrvik 2409]

yes cuz nothing says success then a game built for 6 people that costs millions to produce..

 

make no mistake SA is expected to sell huge, this isnt the mod were talking about anymore, that was free.

 

Depends on how one defines success!

[tommes 331]

yes cuz nothing says success then a game built for 6 people that costs millions to produce..

 

make no mistake SA is expected to sell huge, this isnt the mod were talking about anymore, that was free.

Many a game went to shit because it was adapted for the moron masses. Shit must taste awesome. 20 billion flies can't be wrong!

Rocket quit a job and moved to Czech Republic because he didn't want to be part of this huge digestive system. He made DayZ to be something different. DayZ was so successful because it was different. If he now starts to go after the masses SA will be like a flare out of a M204 launcher. Quickly vanished.

[Siberian (DayZ) 527]

Many a game went to shit because it was adapted for the moron masses. Shit must taste awesome. 20 billion flies can't be wrong!

Rocket quit a job and moved to Czech Republic because he didn't want to be part of this huge digestive system. He made DayZ to be something different. DayZ was so successful because it was different. If he now starts to go after the masses SA will be like a flare out of a M204 launcher. Quickly vanished.

news flash he could have made SA EXACTLY like the mod and it still would have sold millions..

 

his version of SA as it stands today is still eagerly awaited by many many people, althou obviously some of the fire has cooled due to delays, but certainly not due to omg 3rdperson cam? wtf...

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

yes cuz nothing says success then a game built for 6 people that costs millions to produce..

 

make no mistake SA is expected to sell huge, this isnt the mod were talking about anymore, that was free.

 

Double newsflash!  It's already been success business-wise.

 

DayZ is already profitable via Arma 2 sales!  That's why they can take their time.

 

Back on topic anyway :/  This threads crazy.

Edited August 29, 2013 by Fraggle

[Wayze 549]

The problem here is obviously that rocket thinks that most people actually want third person to be in the game because they play on third person servers. But actually I really don't believe that, there are so many other reasons why we all play on third person server, but that does not mean that we like it. But I really think that Dean thinks the majority actually likes it and that is why it is in their. But this logic is just totally stupid.

Like we all can see most of the people play on servers with 50.000 AS50s per m², but does that mean that actually all of those people like to play on these servers or maybe the mod was not survival enough so it turned into a deathmatch.

Anyway, I really think this should not be something for an admin to decide, because obviously they will be the same people who also made the DayZ Mod servers. And I really don't know how Dean wants to pay these servers, because sooner or later the admins have no input because the AS50 donation packs just miss, so they will shut down the servers. Anyway, my point is that admins should not have any right to decide over the gameplay of the game. I want first person servers to be seperated from the third person servers. But if you give the admins the choice in the end there will be just like 2 first person servers.

[Siberian (DayZ) 527]

Double newsflash!  It's already been a success business-wise.

 

DayZ is already profitable via Arma 2 sales!  That's why they can take their time.

 

Back on topic anyway :/  This threads crazy.

exactly, thats my point..

 

yet people claim leaving in 3rd person will suddenly be the doom of SA.

 

which is utter horsepoop

[RedNome 443]

The problem here is obviously that rocket thinks that most people actually want third person to be in the game because they play on third person servers. But actually I really don't believe that, there are so many other reasons why we all play on third person server, but that does not mean that we like it. But I really think that Dean thinks the majority actually likes it and that is why it is in their. But this logic is just totally stupid.

Like we all can see most of the people play on servers with 50.000 AS50s per m², but does that mean that actually all of those people like to play on these servers or maybe the mod was not survival enough so it turned into a deathmatch.

Anyway, I really think this should not be something for an admin to decide, because obviously they will be the same people who also made the DayZ Mod servers. And I really don't know how Dean wants to pay these servers, because sooner or later the admins have no input because the AS50 donation packs just miss, so they will shut down the servers. Anyway, my point is that admins should not have any right to decide over the gameplay of the game. I want first person servers to be seperated from the third person servers. But if you give the admins the choice in the end there will be just like 2 first person servers.

 

You could host one yourself, that would make at least 3..........

 

And with the rumored increase in player count, that would probably cover off the demand for 1st person between here and Reddit going by the polls recently done ;)

Edited August 28, 2013 by RedNome

[Heiduk 265]

If I'm walking around in first person view for some reason, zombies seeing me over the walls seems counter-intuitive.

I completely agree, of course I also feel the same about humans seeing me over walls.

 

Just no to the markers over the head, I want less HUD, not more.

I don't like the idea of markers either but if we stipulate that DayZ needs third person, for whatever reasons, then we've already taken a big step away from physically plausible simulation towards standard video game. Therefore, it's only a question of what makes a balanced fun game.

3rd person player markers would go a long ways towards evening out the current risk/reward imbalance. Currently, using 3rd person is almost all reward with virtually no risk. The only minor drawback to 3rd person is that it is slightly harder to shoot without going to iron sights. If a player marker was added at the same position as the 3rd person camera then suddenly the player is forced to make a decision: Do I stay in 1st person and keep a low profile or do I switch to 3rd to gather better intel at the risk of making myself easier to spot?

[Vicco 123]

Climbing ladders in real life is also terrible indeed. You can not just watch over your back because you have to see the ladder. If you prone in grass why should you be able to see something? You are prone in the grass, the other guy does not see you, so why should you be able to see him? Exactly that is also a point which appears in real life.

You never can see someone if you don't have visual contact. If you can see him he should be able to see you, because that is how it works in real life and how it should work in DayZ to improve the immersion and the combat system.

Looks like you don't have much time on ladders, or playing hide and seek. Both 1P and 3P are flawed and unrealistic in DayZ, and in every other game I've played. That's one reason I find the argument that 1P is more "realistic" ludicrous. Same with accusations of "cheating." Ridiculous.

It's a game. Bottom line, you like it or don't like it.

What you like or what I like means what? Absolutely nothing.

Rocket and the devs is where the game world rubber hits the real world road.

They are gamers. Since Rocket himself prefers 3P in most situations, it'll stay.

What I suggest is adding adjustable "stance," and locking the camera near solid objects or when prone.

Why? To shut up all the 1P whiners. 1P campers are going to kill them anyway, since they seem incapable of adjusting to current game ambush tactics.

But PLEASE shut them up.

That's a HUGE win/win.

Of course I know no more about programming DayZ than most of those here.

So it's in Rocket's hands.

Hey, Rocket. When I'm prone in the wild IRL I can move aside grass blades and branches to get a view, and raise my head in almost infinite increments, using my neck, or elbows.

Same with looking around corners. Only expose enough of my head to get one eye looking. That's how I do it in real life. Certainly nothing like the video at the beginning of this thread. Big piece of head/body/leg showing. That's not realistic. It's a joke.

And I kinda like using the barrel of my assault rife to make a small gap in bushes to see through and sight down, if that's possible.

And I can climb a ladder one handed, with a grenade, rifle or pistol in my other hand.

Of course I can jump around too.

So please fix all that, will, you?

What's that? It's a game, and there's only so much you can do?

Oh, okay. Then I'll adjust to the game you design. If I like playing it. So far, so good.

[tommes 331]

yet people claim leaving in 3rd person will suddenly be the doom of SA.

Nobody did.

[Ken Bean 175]

If you read tomorrow in the newspaper that the player count on 1st person server increased by nearly infinite percent (from 0 to 1), that was me. I just played two hours.

Conclusion:

One can get used to, but the movement just unbelievable dorky in closed rooms. Almost died in the barrack with the bank in the door at NW Airfield fighting with the controls and zeds. Plus it lacks a bit fun, feels way more unfree.

Besides of the dorkyness in regards of controlls (I surprisingly try to switch to 3rd person in combats quite often and doors seems to be more tricky to open), I came quite a bit around. Found 3 heli crash sites with not so awesome stuff. Was on NW Airfield, looted Vybor, Pustoshka and Stary. Everything by food, is a bit more boring. But I have the feeling that it is not that much more difficult than on 3rd person server. Hardest thing is, that you can lose orientation easier just by looking around a bit fast in certain situations and I somehow didn't really got my controlls (maybe practice will ease that), feels a bit more blind. Finding loot piles at heli crash sites is in dense gras clearly is a pain and can take forever even if you almost know where they are.

Don't really see what all the fuss is about. But also didn't have a player encounter. So of cause I cant say if there's something different, even more since I dont focus on pvp anyway.

Edited August 29, 2013 by Ken Bean

[Wayze 549]

yes cuz nothing says success then a game built for 6 people that costs millions to produce..

 

make no mistake SA is expected to sell huge, this isnt the mod were talking about anymore, that was free.

Yes free, because everyone had arma 2 before and if they didn't they just bought it for the vanilla game. What the hell? The game costs 25€ (or did), it is everything else than free.

 

Wait a second, you actually believe that DayZ Standalone costs millions to produce? Sorry, don't be ridicilous.

Edited August 29, 2013 by Wayze

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

Why? To shut up all the 1P whiners. 1P campers are going to kill them anyway, since they seem incapable of adjusting to current game ambush tactics.

But PLEASE shut them up.

 

The 1P whiners as you call us, have already admitted that most of us play on third person servers, using third person to its full ability. We've essentially adjusted our game according to the situation. But, if we dare to speak up and voice our opinions about our dislike the 3rd person flaws, you write us off simply as incapable whiners?

 

I guess it's easier to dismiss our debates when you discredit us in your own mind. But, you're only fooling yourself with that broken logic.

 

 

If you read tomorrow in the newspaper that the player count on 1st person server increased by nearly infinite percent (from 0 to 1), that was me. I just played two hours.

Conclusion:

One can get used to, but the movement just unbelievable dorky in closed rooms. Almost died in the barrack with the bank in the door at NW Airfield fighting with the controls and zeds. Plus it lacks a bit fun, feels way more unfree.

Besides of the dorkyness in regards of controlls (I surprisingly try to switch to 3rd person in combats quite often and doors seems to be more tricky to open), I came quite a bit around. Found 3 heli crash sites with not so awesome stuff. Was on NW Airfield, looted Vybor, Pustoshka and Stary. Everything by food, is a bit more boring. But I have the feeling that it is not that much more difficult than on 3rd person server. Hardest thing is, that you can lose orientation easier just by looking around a bit fast in certain situations and I somehow didn't really got my controlls (maybe practice will ease that), feels a bit more blind. Finding loot piles at heli crash sites is in dense gras clearly is a pain and can take forever even if you almost know where they are.

Don't really see what all the fuss is about. But also didn't have a player encounter. So of cause I cant say if there's something different, even more since I dont focus on pvp anyway.

 

It's not that first person is all that great. It's honestly not. The reason I want first person and not third is because of third person being so exploitable and no decent solutions have been proposed so far. I'm open to accepting third person if the exploits can be fixed. I'll always prefer first myself, but I wouldn't want to force it on people if third gave no advantage.

[Siberian (DayZ) 527]

Wait a second, you actually believe that DayZ Standalone costs millions to produce? Sorry, don't be ridicilous.

 

 

haha, ok im curious what you think SA costs to dev. on a monthly basis ?

 

or do you think staff/buildings/ and every other bloody thing cost nothing !!!!

[Wayze 549]

haha, ok im curious what you think SA costs to dev. on a monthly basis ?

 

or do you think staff/buildings/ and every other bloody thing cost nothing !!!!

Sure they cost, but you know what is always the main cost? PR. The advertisment is always the highest part and as DayZ does not need advertisment and also does not need an new engine because there is one, the cost are highly reduced.

Edited August 29, 2013 by Wayze

[SMLE 39]

No, that's just it.  All of this variation and "choice" comes purely from the fact that DayZ is a mod.  Many of the things that we currently see as part of the game aren't design decisions at all, they're remnants of Arma2 which has a very different set of requirements.

 

When making an actual game from the ground up all of these things have to be considered.  For me that will be the strength of the SA and the thing that'll make it stand head and shoulders above any other mods we're likely to see.  The mod carries a hell of a lot of baggage, the SA doesn't have to.

I can only speak for myself but all my experiences with many choices comes from plain standard DayZ I don't normally play the other mods , I have looked at some though .

[DemonGroover 8836]

If you read tomorrow in the newspaper that the player count on 1st person server increased by nearly infinite percent (from 0 to 1), that was me. I just played two hours.

Conclusion:

One can get used to, but the movement just unbelievable dorky in closed rooms. Almost died in the barrack with the bank in the door at NW Airfield fighting with the controls and zeds. Plus it lacks a bit fun, feels way more unfree.

Besides of the dorkyness in regards of controlls (I surprisingly try to switch to 3rd person in combats quite often and doors seems to be more tricky to open), I came quite a bit around. Found 3 heli crash sites with not so awesome stuff. Was on NW Airfield, looted Vybor, Pustoshka and Stary. Everything by food, is a bit more boring. But I have the feeling that it is not that much more difficult than on 3rd person server. Hardest thing is, that you can lose orientation easier just by looking around a bit fast in certain situations and I somehow didn't really got my controlls (maybe practice will ease that), feels a bit more blind. Finding loot piles at heli crash sites is in dense gras clearly is a pain and can take forever even if you almost know where they are.

Don't really see what all the fuss is about. But also didn't have a player encounter. So of cause I cant say if there's something different, even more since I dont focus on pvp anyway.

 

Well kudos to you for at least having a good go and seeing what a 1st person server is like. Not too sure if many 3rd person hipsters have even attempted it.

 

There are definite issues with 1st person in the mod that are already addressed in SA - the FOV for one.  No one is saying that 1st person is perfect. It would be nice to play a game one day that actually simulated the human eye, but until something like the oculus rift is commonplace then we'll have to wait.

 

The main point now (and not one that has been going on ad nauseum) is how to rectify the obvious exploitable loopholes in the current 3rd person view.

 

I for one want to know that if i hide behind a wall i have a fair chance of being hidden.  The same for roof tops. If i scan the rooftops properly for players i want to know there isn't some eye in the sky looking down at me from a cowardly rooftop camper.  That's all - i dont think that is too much to ask for,

[longdongsilverz 22]

I definitely think that third-person view should be limited to third-person ONLY servers; that way, if it comes down to PvP, the third-person user doesn't have an advantage over the the first-person user because if it were real, they wouldn't be able to see where the other is hiding over a wall, around a corner etc.

[SMLE 39]

I did.  It was ages ago though =)  I spent bloody hours promoting Planet DayZ's hardcore 1st person  vanilla servers too.  We got busy, really busy.

 

The problem is without constantly promoting it people "choose" the default 3rd person servers.  The feedback on the forums was always great and people loved it, we had many converts.

 

Anyhoo, I'm not arguing for the 3rd person cam to be removed, I just want it fixed. 

Once again we come to the real point 3rd person view is not broken , this post is about not being able to get servers for your play style so you want to penalize 3rd Person players to force them to play your way .

do you really think that's fair ?

cheers

[SMLE 39]

Well that's because it depends who you ask.  That was my honest answer =)

 

Unless you're claiming that I'm lying to make a point which I'm sure you're not.

 

And anyhoo, as has been said by me, SmashT, Demon, Rednome, Orlok and others (all with slightly differing views on the matter btw) it's kind of a moot discussion because 3rd person isn't being removed from the game.  They just want to explore the possibility of fixing the current issue with the 3rd person cam.

 

It's highly likely it'll be something very simple and I'm not complaining about it so I'm not sure where this elitist DayZ hipster thing comes from every time I make a post.

 

I've already accepted compromise, it's a shame others can't

But why must there be compromise on a server set that people are totally happy with and you wont be playing on anyway ?

cheers

[DemonGroover 8836]

When did Rocket ever say he wanted players to be happy?

 

I remember quotes saying the complete opposite.

[SMLE 39]

Out of all the proposed changes to third person view, my own suggestion(making zombies/players invisible until you see them in first person) is the only one I would consider acceptable, but I still don't think it's a good idea due to visual immersion breaking.

 

Pulling the camera in close- It seems rather pointless to even have third person view if your screen is mostly blocked by your character model. This can be seen in other games. I think if people actually tried this change, they wouldn't like it. But who knows.

 

Forcing first when prone- What if I want to go prone in the bushes and check to see if my feet are sticking out? What if my legs are broken? I'm forced to use first person for that 2km crawl to the hospital? What's the logic in that enforcement? There's just too many circumstances where unfair/unenjoyable/unauthentic restrictions will happen.

 

Weapon on back means third enabled- This one is slightly better, but it's still wide open to exploitation. If an unarmed scout can still exploit the view, nothing has been fixed. Or you could just lay on a rooftop and shoulder your weapon until you see a target.

 

Did I miss any?

Very good points , This is why I say have the option to play on the server type you like , no more work for the devs , no testing , its all there now .

cheers

[SMLE 39]

This thread isn't a discussion about populated first person servers. Those of us in the first person corner know all too well the state of the first person servers in the mod. Their lack of population has no bearing on this discussion. This thread is about third person view being exploitable and what should be done about it.

 

SO FUCK OFF WITH YOUR AVOIDING THE ISSUE!

LOL you are sooo wrong :)

cheers

[dallas 5195]

The real problem with 3rd person servers isn't that a legit feature is somehow attempted to be described as an exploit. The problem with 3rd person servers is that they fill up faster than 1st person servers and since most players select their servers based on population, rather than difficulty settings, means that all you scores of 1st person players, end up joining servers with settings you disagree with.

 

The problem is also that ArmA/OFP and even DayZ was not designed as being an exclusive first person platform and the decision to cut an existing feature from DayZ and based on server population, the most popular feature, must be considered with extreme caution. I equal removing 3rd person view from DayZ as extreme as removing PvP.

 

Dslysexi does not bring anything new to the table, he repeats that a feature that's available to everyone on the server is somehow unfair and disagrees with Bohemia, which implemented this feature in the first place, simply because OFP/ArmA was more than a first person shooter. ArmA and DayZ is a visual experience, where your player model is inserted in a very vivid world, but while first person may be more intense, third person is a much more pleasant experience, because when you turn your head, you're not staring down your headless torso. DayZ is also a grind, designed like an mmo, where you really have to invest hours worth of travel and scavenging and this can be extremely taxing in first person.

 

Instead of forcing 3rd person players to fill up 1st person server, why not simply implement a 1st/3rd person filter in the server browser. This way 1st person players can locate near full 1st person servers and join these, instead of lazily join 3rd person server and then proceed to complain about the server settings?

[TIC 1050]

I personally like having 1st person over 3rd. It makes you feel more "inside" your character or should I say a more immersive feel to the field play. I just would like to see more interactions in first person like having an ability to hold a mirror if you can find one ---Perfect for Occulus Rift--- so you can see your back side in case you get injured. Another alternative is opening up the menu where you can see your inventory and have an option to rotate the player model to see where the player's been hit instead.

 

3rd person is generally present in MMO games that boast large maps/features to the table. It gives players more of an interaction to the game to see what's going on around that person instead of one perspective. 3rd person gives you multiple angles and is great for recording footage.