The real psychology of DayZ PVP

[Wayze 549]

I read a topic in the graveyard, and after playing DayZ more than a year now I totally disagree with the opinion that we play DayZ because we want to feel superior. Actually, in my opinion it is even way more fun if you don't feel superior. Killing a whole team with high end gear, just using an enfield, that is DayZ for me. Why we don't play Arma 2 normally? Well, there is one simple answere to that, we don't want to lose the gear. This is one of the key features of DayZ, you die and your character and all his gear dies with it. This is the concept that keeps us playing DayZ on and on and on.

In Arma 2 you actually don't have to be afraid of killing, as result of that killing another player is nothing special. Actually it is quite boring. DayZ kind of spoiled me for other shooters, they are not exciting. The PVP in DayZ is probably the most special in gaming history, because you are actually afraid to die. You actually think about what you do, you also interact with other players. It is not just the "Kill or be killed" it is just "survive and get your gear". Every single mistake you make can ruin hours and days of collecting gear. Shooting bambies in cherno with a DMR or AS50, just boring as hell. What is the point in that? However, I love there are these people who do that, because of the simple reason I can hunt them down and take their gear. (and mostly that happens because people sniping bambies in cherno are not really good at the game)

The topic really provocated this reaction, because I totally disagree with what this one person tries to tell us. You can not say everyone is like you because you have some reason. Me for example I dont enjoy sniping bambies, I enjoy actually hunting the killers, hunting people who have better weapons than me. I don't feel any sort of success after killing some bambie with a DMR.

The topic I refer to was moved to graveyard because the creator actually did not want to discuss it. But I think this could be quite an interesting discussion, so what do you think? You you agree with http://dayzmod.com/f...gy-of-dayz-pvp/ or not?

Edited July 8, 2013 by Wayze

[Korsbaek 1778]

nevermind.

Edited July 8, 2013 by narkoman14

[dimitri3p0 99]

I read a topic in the graveyard, and after playing DayZ more than a year now I totally disagree with the opinion that we play DayZ because we want to feel superior. Actually, in my opinion it is even way more fun if you don't feel superior. Killing a whole team with high end gear, just using an enfield, that is DayZ for me.

And how does killing a whole team with just an Enfield NOT make you feel superior?

[rick808 9]

why was the other topic graveyarded?

[GOD™ 2795]

That's nice.

:ph34r:

[wild_man 4442]

That's nice.

:ph34r:

I get it ;)

[Boshed 29]

why was the other topic graveyarded?

The answer is in both threads

[Wayze 549]

And how does killing a whole team with just an Enfield NOT make you feel superior?

I am not superior in the sense that I have the upper hand, I am maybe smarter, more expirienced and skilled. But what the topic creator of the other thread tried to state was that it is actually fun to have the better gear and than kill the people. So in the sense being superior not as a player but as a force.

The answer is in both threads

<_<

Edited July 8, 2013 by Wayze

[Blondedash 403]

I think of kos as a defensive decision you'd rather not risk getting killed but you look like a dick doing it.

[Bubbajones 238]

The PVP in DayZ is probably the most special in gaming history, because you are actually afraid to die.

That's a pretty bold statement.

As much as i love DayZ, they didn't invent "afraid to die".

There are other games that have full loot drops: Eve online and Mortal Online - just to name a couple. these games are very harsh on the losers.

Dayz is harsh too, but seriously, downtime is minimal; it takes 15 minutes to gear up enough to be a threat and take someone else's lootz.

Dayz is special - very special - for a number of reasons, being afraid to die is not one of them.

[Korsbaek 1778]

There are other games that have full loot drops.

Runescape :D

[TheLastEmp 295]

Nothing gets my adrenaline more jacked than coming across a couple of well kitted bandits when I've only got a measly Winchester or Enfield. I have more fun when I try to play as a hero than when I play as a bandit. I sniped a couple of bambies early on in my DayZ career, and got absolutely zero satisfaction from it.

Being fully kitted while getting in to a fire fight makes me so anxious that I tend to make mistakes...

[Wayze 549]

That's a pretty bold statement.

As much as i love DayZ, they didn't invent "afraid to die".

There are other games that have full loot drops: Eve online and Mortal Online - just to name a couple. these games are very harsh on the losers.

Dayz is harsh too, but seriously, downtime is minimal; it takes 15 minutes to gear up enough to be a threat and take someone else's lootz.

Dayz is special - very special - for a number of reasons, being afraid to die is not one of them.

Sure there are these concept, even minecraft had it. But it is not even close to how DayZ handles with it. In DayZ it is 1 second and you are dead. You don't even know how you died. You are under constant stress because you know exactly you could lose all your gear every single second. It is how fast it goes.

This video is in my opinion really representive for that:

It is the "Oh sh*t!" - *You are dead* which is so threatening to the player. I don't know about Eve oder Mortal ONline, but I know that DayZ is the first game where everyone is talking about the death. Everyone is talking about how the f*ck he was afraid of when he had his first encounter with good gear. Everyone is talking about how frustrating the death is. Never heard any of that in that form in any other game.

Let me ask you a question, do you shout "FRIENDLY FRIENDLY!!" in Eve Online? Do you betray people after playing hours with them? Are your hands shaking because you are afraid that the 5 bandits who surrounded you will kill you?

Informed myself about EVE Online. Looks really good, gonna take the trial to play it. Play 5 years and losing everything is sure more frustrating than DayZ, but I think it is something different. But, as you can see, EVE ONline is a very special game, and DayZ is too. Both of them have freedom and you lose EVERYTHING with your death. One mistake cost you EVERYTHING. And this is exactly what makes DayZ special, and it is also what makes EVE Online special.

Mortal Online looks awful, but I thought about it a time ago. A game in a fantasy setting + concept of DayZ would be a great success. The first developer who will be brave enough to do this, will get really rich, I can ensure that.

Edited July 8, 2013 by Wayze

[TheDesigner 1197]

I get a bigger rush playing some paintball than shooting unsuspecting survivors :P. I think it's more exciting to interact with people and have the skill to avoid/flip a situation. I'm getting nostalgia just thinking about the good 'ole DayZ.

[wild_man 4442]

I agree OP :thumbsup:

I really don't give fucks if the other guy has better gear or nice vehicle. All I need can be found essily in elektro.

In fact the more stuff he has the happier I am for killing him because he spend time finding this shit, avoiding zesd, maybe living for 3 days or more. :D

and I shot him in 1 second in the back with a lee enfield which you can find in every house. :P

I always hide the bodies now because my trade business idea was not popular, I don't need anything except food, drink, gun, ammo.

I never have backpack because it just is more to think about and makes you look bigger

Edited July 8, 2013 by KoS

[TheLastEmp 295]

I never have backpack because it just is more to think about and makes you look bigger

^^Pro-tip^^

[Prototype771 4]

^^Pro-tip^^

True, but still doesn't stop the ArmA engine from making you visible from the terrain :/ Guess we have to wait till standalone. (gee, maybe if tents were modified with LOD and the glare from PPE... Then maybe tents would be more of a rarity to the player's eyes.

Edited July 8, 2013 by Prototype771

[khaenz 93]

Why we don't play Arma 2 normally? Well, there is one simple answer to that, we don't want to lose the gear. This is one of the key features of DayZ, you die and your character and all his gear dies with it. This is the concept that keeps us playing DayZ on and on and on.

In Arma 2 you actually don't have to be afraid of killing, as result of that killing another player is nothing special. Actually it is quite boring. DayZ kind of spoiled me for other shooters, they are not exciting. The PVP in DayZ is probably the most special in gaming history, because you are actually afraid to die.

In ArmA 2 you are also afraid of dieing... unless you're playing Wasteland or some mission with respawns. But kills in ArmA 2 and surviving there is in my opinion as satisfying as in DayZ, because when you die, you're out for the rest of the mission, you're making it harder for your team mates to survive. Same thing happens to the enemies when they die, thus why it always feels good after killing someone there, because you know you are one step closer to victory, and it was thanks to you. You would be afraid of killing, since firing will make your position easier to find (It's easier to spot and shoot someone who is firing full-auto than someone who is carefully placing shots, even though they are at the same distance/area).

Firefights in ArmA 2 are also much more intense since they have a larger scale, a bigger selection of weaponry, and you don't have the same annoying deaths as in DayZ (Randomly getting sniped, and your friend dies, and theres no one left, you lost the fight, he got the gear). In ArmA 2 this doesn't happen. You move in larger groups, a sniper would have a hard time killing all of you without any help.

Have you ever played ArmA 2 properly?

Edited July 9, 2013 by dollon

[Wayze 549]

In ArmA 2 you are also afraid of dieing... unless you're playing Wasteland or some mission with respawns. But kills in ArmA 2 and surviving there is in my opinion as satisfying as in DayZ, because when you die, you're out for the rest of the mission, you're making it harder for your team mates to survive. Same thing happens to the enemies when they die, thus why it always feels good after killing someone there, because you know you are one step closer to victory, and it was thanks to you. You would be afraid of killing, since firing will make your position easier to find (It's easier to spot and shoot someone who is firing full-auto than someone who is carefully placing shots, even though they are at the same distance/area).

Firefights in ArmA 2 are also much more intense since they have a larger scale, a bigger selection of weaponry, and you don't have the same annoying deaths as in DayZ (Randomly getting sniped, and your friend dies, and theres no one left, you lost the fight, he got the gear). In ArmA 2 this doesn't happen. You move in larger groups, a sniper would have a hard time killing all of you without any help.

Have you ever played ArmA 2 properly?

I actually can't find any servers that play ArmA 2 properly. I just find these real life bullshit thing where you are takistan police or something. -.-

But I played Arma 2 with respawns, anyway even if you die for the rest of the mission (which is pretty cool) you did not lost anything. In DayZ you lose gear you searched for hours, that is not the case in Arma 2. You just want to win, it is like search & destroy in CoD just on a way bigger map.

[kingkrabbe.#bof 35]

I agree with both OPs in some points. I think that feeling superior is a huge motivation for some to play KOS/bandit and I think that the "I lose all my stuff when I die" is a huge motivation to survive.

But where I don't agree: you don't lose all your stuff in DayZ when you get shot. Most of the times you can return to your body and get some of your gear back (freshspawn/not that long alive). And when you get shot after spending hours of looting and gearing up you should have a tent somewhere were you keep at least one full set of gear. So the loss isn't really that big in both scenarios.

What I believe to be the bigger "bugger" is that you feel insufficient when you were shot. You wasn't able to survive, you were shot and couldn't defend yourself, stuff like that. That's most of the times the feeling I have after I died.

I think the player base is somehow divided into players, that play for the immersion, the surviving aspect, who care for their gear and are afraid to lose it/die/feel insufficient, while there are other players, who play for other emotional aspects, the kick of killing a better equipped person or an unwary sniper, for the thrill of gunfights, to feel kind of satisfied/superior when they succeed. I think those players don't care about their gear much because going into gunfights is a huge risk imo that a really "don't lose gear" oriented player wouldn't take so easily.

That said, I think that's a point where there could be changes in the SA, because both player bases kind of collide (and there may be a third player base that is only playing DayZ to troll others, to feel happy by making others feel bad). Gear oriented players aren't really into PVP while superiority oriented players are really into PVP. So, when a gear oriented players faces a PVP oriented player, one would like to survive, the other one would like to kill (and survive). Both players are kind of denying the other one what they really want: survival or PVP action. That's not at all a bad thing because it keeps the game thrilling, but in a way - based on my DayZ experiences - it turned the survival aspect into paranoia (don't talk to strangers, ...) and into a lot of frustration ("I don't want to play this game anymore because KOS") and the PVP aspect into a blood bath where really thrilling/satisfying gunfights are kind of rare.

But that's only my opinion.