.50s gone? Add the Lapua! (with 2 changes)

[trichome (DayZ) 198]

My gripe is something that someone once said ... 'I use the DMR for 'close range' and a M24 for long range'

The DMR should be removed from the game, it has no place in a post apocalyptic Soviet State such as Chernarus. Not to talk about the fact that its a n00b snipers wet dream, 30 rounds per clip lol.

[enforcer1975 1111]

The DMR should be removed from the game, it has no place in a post apocalyptic Soviet State such as Chernarus. Not to talk about the fact that its a n00b snipers wet dream, 30 rounds per clip lol.

It's not the only weapon that needs to go setting wise and it has 20 rounds per mag.

[Xianyu 820]

I want that weapon in the game, as well as a 'super high end' sniper rifle like the Steyr HS .50.

Bolt-action, single shot, 50 cal goodness. Give it 200,000 damage on a bad day so that it can take out vehicles and helicopters (the AS50 does 174,000). The single shot, bolt action nature of the weapon would completely preclude it from being used against 'normal' targets except by people who really know their shit. It would take AGES to put in a new round and line up your target again.

But for the really decent sniper, it could allow them a guaranteed OHK against stationary targets out to the max view distance. And it satisfies the 'anti vehicle' role while not being a 'super weapon' in that it would be better against infantry than any other sniper rifle.

[-Gews- 7443]

I want that weapon in the game, as well as a 'super high end' sniper rifle like the Steyr HS .50.

Wait.

Bolt-action, single shot, 50 cal goodness. Give it 200,000 damage on a bad day so that it can take out vehicles and helicopters (the AS50 does 174,000).

Wait.

Okay, that's surprising after your other thread... anyways just one comment:

The AS50 did waaay too much damage for a .50 caliber rifle, the M107 did the correct amount. The HS50 has a slightly longer barrel so it would have probably have a 60-80 fps gain.

Taking a 750-gr A-MAX at 2,900 ft/s and rounding up, that turns into a maximum of just under 44,000 blood damage.

.50 caliber rifles would have a hard time destroying vehicles in one or two shots. That's what machine guns are for... still, the gun has twice the penetration of other calibers so it would go straight through a helicopter cockpit or pop a wheel.

[Xianyu 820]

Wait.

Wait.

Okay, that's surprising after your other thread... anyways just one comment:

The AS50 did waaay too much damage for a .50 caliber rifle, the M107 did the correct amount. The HS50 has a slightly longer barrel so it would have probably have a 60-80 fps gain.

Taking a 750-gr A-MAX at 2,900 ft/s and rounding up, that turns into a maximum of just under 44,000 blood damage.

.50 caliber rifles would have a hard time destroying vehicles in one or two shots. That's what machine guns are for... still, the gun has twice the penetration of other calibers so it would go straight through a helicopter cockpit or pop a wheel.

Still, something anti-vehicular is pretty much needed. Especially against helicopters with mounted weapons.

I'm all for 50 cals if they have enough disadvantaged to be used as anti-material and 'situational' weapons rather than the be-all, end-all of all firearms in the game.

The massively increased 'blood damage' number is, if I remember correctly, because vehicles use the same 'blood damage' formula. It needs to be excessively high because vehicles have a retarded amount of 'blood' to get through before they're done.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Xianyu

[enforcer1975 1111]

Still, something anti-vehicular is pretty much needed. Especially against helicopters with mounted weapons.

I'm all for 50 cals if they have enough disadvantaged to be used as anti-material and 'situational' weapons rather than the be-all, end-all of all firearms in the game.

The massively increased 'blood damage' number is, if I remember correctly, because vehicles use the same 'blood damage' formula. It needs to be excessively high because vehicles have a retarded amount of 'blood' to get through before they're done.

Armed Helis ( there won't be more than one or two machine guns on it anyway ) are not that common and not really a threat that you need a .50 on every corner to counter them. And even if there is one...use your brain to track it ( it's loud enough ) until the pilot lands to take a piss or refuel and take it away. Edited May 23, 2013 by Enforcer

[-Gews- 7443]

Still, something anti-vehicular is pretty much needed. Especially against helicopters with mounted weapons.

I'm all for 50 cals if they have enough disadvantaged to be used as anti-material and 'situational' weapons rather than the be-all, end-all of all firearms in the game.

The massively increased 'blood damage' number is, if I remember correctly, because vehicles use the same 'blood damage' formula. It needs to be excessively high because vehicles have a retarded amount of 'blood' to get through before they're done.

Mmmm well it makes no sense to have the AS50 / other rifles doing that much damage. Someone typed "56" instead of "26" for the raw damage. It's more than 20mm cannon shells, not realistic. The M107 is right, the AS50 is wrong.

Anyways either rifle can simply shoot the pilot.

[burritoman259 593]

AW50 - Similar to KSVK, takes .50cal AW50 Mags, 5 rounds, bolt action, extremely slow fire rate, takes backpack slot

First off no, it does not take regular 12.7x99 NATO rounds it takes its own ammo, the 12.7x108mm round which is a bit different, sorry to be that guy but this sorta bugged me.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12.7%C3%97108mm

[Whatsausername 119]

I got to thinking about it and I think I would like to see the steyr .50 its a .50 cal but originates in eastern Europe (Czech Rep I think) its bolt action single shot (no magazine) so it doesn't present the same problems like the m107 or as50. Since its a single shot, you really have to make that first shot count and it would be completely useless for anything besides sniping unlike the current bolt action snipers where yea you have to wait to work the bolt but its really no different than hip firing a Lee. Edit: Its from Austria.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Whatsausername

[-Gews- 7443]

By the way, I noticed another problem with the Lapua (and AS50).

The drag coefficient is too low. The code says:

airFriction = -0.0005

That seems like a suspiciously round number (other bullets have numbers such as -0.0009324 or -0.001425) and it is. It should be about -0.00068 to correspond better with real-life data.

Edit: it seems like whoever coded the weapon took the lazy route with respect to ammunition... same with the AS50... jeez, not much effort put in when I start noticing errors after 30 seconds of looking at it... ticks me off.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Gews

[(DM)pill0man 0]

i dont think long range sniping should be on the game, DayZ isnt a military simulator, it's a post apocalyptic survival, there's no need for that in the game.

do u hear yourself there is zombies but players to u got to hold your base or anything u claim in dayz sniping just helps with that and with wat u said this is dayz not just a zombie survival it is survival from everything

[LancerG2 369]

Guys how about A 50 cal. but like with a few differences

1. Make it the McMillan Tac50

2. Shorter range

3. No scope. It becomes an elephant gun

4. Beats the Idea of the L919A23123 sniper .223 rifle.

[enforcer1975 1111]

do u hear yourself there is zombies but players to u got to hold your base or anything u claim in dayz sniping just helps with that and with wat u said this is dayz not just a zombie survival it is survival from everything

You don't have to defend yourself from zombies far away and up close they are going to shove the .50 up your rear because they will be too close to engage with that heavy weapon. Using a .50 in DayZ is just for chicken hearted murder. There are no armored vehicles, helis will not be that common actualyl there is no valid threat that needs the gun.

[Hosty 647]

This is indeed what I want as well.

[dystopeon 46]

50 cals are removed because 99% of those using it - have hacked it in.

prolly best to remove all milspec scope until wind is calculated.

stalking with only a handgun (like .45) = waaaay more fun and dangerous than noob sniping, which ALL snipers currently do.

[-Gews- 7443]

50 cals are removed because 99% of those using it - have hacked it in.

prolly best to remove all milspec scope until wind is calculated.

A fair amount of hunting scopes these days are actually mil dot or MOA scopes... not that it's usually necessary, but still...

stalking with only a handgun (like .45) = waaaay more fun and dangerous than noob sniping, which ALL snipers currently do.

Stalking with only a tin can = way more fun and dangerous than noob stalking. :ph34r:

[hairylemon 4]

This is a TRG-42, not an L115, but still... a Lapua.

So, once the 1.7.7 patch comes out, .50 cals will be banned. Good riddance, I don't think they belong in "vanilla" DayZ. However, I feel there still needs to be a long-range sniper rifle effective at 1 kilometer and further. Why?

1. It's an end-game. Many, many, people love sniper rifles.

2. The 7.62mm snipers simply are not effective at long range! - in real life (or ArmA), a chest shot at 800m will do some damn serious damage, but in DayZ, it's a mere scratch.

Hence I suggest adding the L115A2/A3. For Chernarus the green-colored version would be the way to go (classname BAF_LRR_scoped_w).

This rifle would need a couple minor changes before being implemented in DayZ.

DAMAGE:

This rifle currently does .50-cal damage - it's an instakill at almost any range. It should do .338 damage, not .50 damage.

Damage would need to be changed from "26" to "17".

It would still kill in one shot at closer ranges, but at long distances it would only wound or knock out. The "17" number comes from the standard BIS damage formula.

The ACE mod also pegs the Lapua at "17". Penetration could stay the same (2.07), the .338 Lapua is no slouch in that regard.

AIR FRICTION

Edit: one more change to the ammo- airFriction = -0.00068, not airFriction = -0.0005.

I checked against the Doppler radar data Lapua published in 2009 (specifically for the B408 bullet used by the British Army) and airFriction = -0.00068 matches the velocities out to 1000 meters far more closely than airFriction = -0.0005. I suspect Bohemia Interactive just guessed at an appropriate value instead of doing their research.

MIL-DOTS:

The mil-dots are incorrect on the L115 rifles, they can't be used with the standard range formulas. This is a relatively easy one-line fix, just change the discretefov values to "discretefov[] = { 0.075500, 0.018000 };"

I don't feel this rifle is "overpowered" like the M107 and AS50 were frequently said to be - the biggest factor is it's not semi-automatic, meaning it really sucks in close range.

I also feel this rifle is more appropriate to the situation - a great deal of European nations use .338 Lapua rifles - the 7.62 is simply not an effective long-range sniping cartridge. The .338 is becoming very popular, so I don't think it would be out of place at all. The rifle isn't ridiculously heavy and big (like the .50s).

In terms of "balancing", recoil could be increased to M24 levels or higher - I feel the current recoil is too low for a .338. It could also have its "dexterity" lowered. Finally, it could also force one to drop their backpack like the KSVK does, as it is a rather large and heavy rifle.

I want to see an effective long-range sniper in DayZ, even if it comes with its own set of distinct disadvantages - I liked seeing the .50s go (I felt they were out of place), but we need something (perhaps something less unrealistically deadly) to replace them.

    

Please R4Z0R! I'm on my knees! :lol:

     

Great Idea

[SFRGaming 718]

I do kind of like this idea. Even if the US were deployed in the Charenarussian war and left behind their guns, the .50 most likely wouldn't be there. the Barret M82 (.50) is only used in making very long distance shots such as 1500m and up. Anything else is reserved for the .338 lapua scout rifle, L115, etc...  One thing I hope Rocket accomplishes with this new medical system, is confirmed 1-shot kills with 7.62 rifles if the bullet hits the heart or head (of course). And the .338 would be a 1-shot kill mostly anywhere. Even being hit in the leg by a .338 will sever the leg, causing (what I call) Stage 3 bleeding (Critical) and shock, leading to death. And I REALLY hope there are significant ballistic, spread, FPS, etc.. differences between all guns. i.e. The AK uses a 7.62x51 AR round which has decent penetrating power and significant ballistics. The M4, however, fires a much smaller round being a 5.56x45, yet the round itself is more devastating. Why do you ask? Even though it is a smaller round, it has a higher muzzle velocity, more penetrating power, and the one thing that makes it such a feared round: it tumbles. This means whenever it DOESN'T penetrate through the bone and rather, bounces off of it, it tumbles through the entire body like a pinball in a pinball machine. This causes LOTS and I mean LOTS of internal bleeding and rupturing. This sets the 7.62 to be more of a stopping power type of round while the M4, having less stopping power, can cause more havoc to the target you are shooting at. 

[enforcer1975 1111]

I do kind of like this idea. Even if the US were deployed in the Charenarussian war and left behind their guns, the .50 most likely wouldn't be there. the Barret M82 (.50) is only used in making very long distance shots such as 1500m and up. Anything else is reserved for the .338 lapua scout rifle, L115, etc...  One thing I hope Rocket accomplishes with this new medical system, is confirmed 1-shot kills with 7.62 rifles if the bullet hits the heart or head (of course). And the .338 would be a 1-shot kill mostly anywhere. Even being hit in the leg by a .338 will sever the leg, causing (what I call) Stage 3 bleeding (Critical) and shock, leading to death. And I REALLY hope there are significant ballistic, spread, FPS, etc.. differences between all guns. i.e. The AK uses a 7.62x39 AR round which has decent penetrating power and significant ballistics. The M4, however, fires a much smaller round being a 5.56x45, yet the round itself is more devastating. Why do you ask? Even though it is a smaller round, it has a higher muzzle velocity, more penetrating power, and the one thing that makes it such a feared round: it tumbles. This means whenever it DOESN'T penetrate through the bone and rather, bounces off of it, it tumbles through the entire body like a pinball in a pinball machine. This causes LOTS and I mean LOTS of internal bleeding and rupturing. This sets the 7.62 to be more of a stopping power type of round while the M4, having less stopping power, can cause more havoc to the target you are shooting at. 

 

There is always a disadvantage over an advantage. While the smaller caliber rifles do more damage through tumbling or even breaking in the body the bigger calibers go straight through but still have a lot more power at longer distances and compared to smaller calibers still have penetration capability. And tumbling or not, if a bullet goes straight through your grey cells or anything vital it's still deadly, tumbling was not designed into the bullets it was discovered. And a bullet doesn't ricochet 100 times in your body like in a pinball game. Stopping power is a myth, if you want stopping power get a bat.

[SFRGaming 718]

tumbling was not designed into the bullets it was discovered.

I never said it was designed, I simply stated that's why the 5.56 is such a feared round.

 

And a bullet doesn't ricochet 100 times in your body like in a pinball game.

Neither did I say this. The bullet might ricochet once and then exit, but that's almost equivalent to being shot twice.

 

Stopping power is a myth, if you want stopping power get a bat.

What I mean by stopping power is the bullet will drop the target in a timely manor. For instance, you have 2 targets down range and 2 shooters. One guy has an AK and the other has a M4. They both fire at the same time and hit the same place (other than the head) and you'll most likely see the guy getting shot by the AK hit the ground first.

 

Yet, the guy that was hit by the M4 will most liekly have more internal damage to his system.

Edited October 16, 2013 by Shadow134

[hairylemon 4]

I disagree. Stuff the .50 cals yest but .388 cal is still to strong. What caliber does the L96A1 use. Replace it with that, It'sa beutiful british sniper rifle.

It can be chambered in these calibers according to wikipedia .243 Winchester

7.62x51mm NATO (.308 Winchester)

.300 Winchester Magnum

.338 Lapua Magnum

[bibbish 49]

The mere threat of just one person on the server having something like this does indeed add needed tension. I like it.

[Jex 1104]

Can I please put a scope on an Enfield?