Earning Persistent Gear in SA

[Dr. Goner 661]

I've been reading through some older topics that touch on the subject of achievement systems and end game content.

What do you all think about this? Instead of earning trophies or whatever, the achievements you earn could be persistent gear.

I'm not talking about earning an AS-50 after killing a hundred zeds, but what about earning a compass after your 100th blood transfusion?

I think this would work in several ways as a portion of the end game and also to reward consistent players. It would alleviate some of the grinding after each death. Anyway, I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.

Thanks!

Edited May 8, 2013 by DrGonzo

[Steak and Potatoes 13480]

I do love you, but I'm not in favor of achievements or earning items through task oriented game play.

[Bubbajones 238]

Some kind of tangible rewards would be cool:

• for every 5 days your character survives, you re-spawn with an extra can of beans (up to a max of 3).
  
• If you gut 100 cows, you re-spawn with a hunting knife, etc..
  
• 100 transfusions = starting bloodbag
  
• bandage 100 people = extra bandage
  

these of course are random examples the trigger values are probably too low for are for example's sake.

[Draco122 412]

I've been reading through some older topics that touch on the subject of achievement systems and end game content.

What do you all think about this? Instead of earning trophies or whatever, the achievements you earn could be persistent gear.

I'm not talking about earning an AS-50 after killing a hundred zeds, but what about earning a compass after your 100th blood transfusion?

I think this would work in several ways as a portion of the end game and also to reward consistent players. It would alleviate some of the grinding after each death. Anyway, I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.

Thanks!

I don't think persistent gear is a good idea, it's not a bad one but I don't think it's a good one either for the game. A compass is an extremely invaluable item in DayZ and it would remove the point of looting areas in search of a compass.

In my terms, I believe that doing a monotonous or tedius task should warrant a small experienced based skill bonus. An example is doing 100 blood transfusions in Standalone leads to much more experience gained in doing them and so, the end result is less likely hood of someone getting an infection upon a transfusion and significantly less chance of loosing blood (possibly gaining a little more)

[-Gews- 7443]

for every 5 days your character survives, you re-spawn with an extra can of beans (up to a max of 3).

My character is at 10 days and he hasn't even done much of anything at all :P I don't like the idea of persistent gear of any kind. I don't mind some kind of visual indicator, like a manly beard sprouting (heh, purpose for razors there) or dirty ragged clothes, but nothing remaining upon death, tyvm.

[simfreek@hotmail.com 48]

I would not agree with this as well. One aspect that I like about DayZ is that once you are dead, thats it. Time to start all over.

Also I have seen what happens to people when there is a shiney badge for doing X, Y amount of times.

"Hey man, want to go and do X?"

"No thanks, I'm killing Y so I can get the you killed X, Y amount of times badge. It dosn't give a bonus but its another badge on my counter." All though this would creat a bunch of zombie farmers which would be good. You go into a town where a guy is popping away at zombies. So you avoid his vacinity while he takes all the agro or you "Help" him. :D

Edited May 8, 2013 by Theonis

[Very Ape 748]

What's the point?

Yeah, that's a big question. The answer isn't stats or even gear. Stats break immersion, and gear should only be tools for survival.

So, that narrows it down. The point is surviving.

As it is now in the mod, the point is amassing gear. Surviving is a nifty way of doing this, but it's not quite the point. It needs to be, though.

How do we make survival a priority? Of course, the prospect of losing gear is an incentive to stay alive, but people become more attached to their gear, not their characters.

If players start giving a shit about that little avatar running incessantly from point A to point B, looting and killing, instead of the gun in his hands, it could change the game.

Dynamic character growth is the way to go. Start out frail and sickly. Maintain a good diet for a day or two? You'll slowly get faster, stronger, with more stamina and your aim less shaky. No way of 'grinding' to get to that point; you actually just need to survive.

Furthermore, you could develop physical traits that reflect your character's progression. Got shot? Clawed? Knifed? You'll have the scars to prove it.

Hell, let us get tattoos. Beards. BEARDS.

BEARDS ARE THE ANSWER.

[-Se7eN- 874]

Personally im against giving anyone a slight advantage over anyone els when they spawn no matter how small that advantage may be.

Part of the fun of dayz if grinding for gear.

[Guest]

I am not usually a fan of these things. But I think you've hit the nail on the head for this kind of thing.

I think maybe the numbers should be higher. But by rewarding players with persistent gear. It's almost as if they are experienced in a field and better prepared. PLus it can lead to some competitiveness for beating a mate to 100 blood transfusions etc.

Good job mate

[-Gews- 7443]

If players start giving a shit about that little avatar running incessantly from point A to point B, looting and killing, instead of the gun in his hands, it could change the game.

Dynamic character growth is the way to go. Start out frail and sickly. Maintain a good diet for a day or two? You'll slowly get faster, stronger, with more stamina and your aim less shaky. No way of 'grinding' to get to that point; you actually just need to survive.

Furthermore, you could develop physical traits that reflect your character's progression. Got shot? Clawed? Knifed? You'll have the scars to prove it.

Goodgoodgoodgoodgood. :beans:

[Dr. Goner 661]

My character is at 10 days and he hasn't even done much of anything at all :P I don't like the idea of persistent gear of any kind. I don't mind some kind of visual indicator, like a manly beard sprouting (heh, purpose for razors there) or dirty ragged clothes, but nothing remaining upon death, tyvm.

I guess what I'm getting at is the fact that once you've played the game for a hundred hours, the act of retrieving a map isn't adding anything to the game. Not always 100% true, but for the most part, it's just grinding.

[Beck (DayZ) 1768]

People need to just spawn with absolutely NOTHING and actually survive. When you die, you are dead, you are no longer in anyway related to your past life. If standalone treats this any other way I don't think it would be right.

[Dr. Goner 661]

I don't think persistent gear is a good idea, it's not a bad one but I don't think it's a good one either for the game. A compass is an extremely invaluable item in DayZ and it would remove the point of looting areas in search of a compass.

In my terms, I believe that doing a monotonous or tedius task should warrant a small experienced based skill bonus. An example is doing 100 blood transfusions in Standalone leads to much more experience gained in doing them and so, the end result is less likely hood of someone getting an infection upon a transfusion and significantly less chance of loosing blood (possibly gaining a little more)

So would this skill bonus reset upon death or be persistent. I really like where you're going with this just curious. Edited May 8, 2013 by DrGonzo

[Epsilon 349 33]

What's the point?

Yeah, that's a big question. The answer isn't stats or even gear. Stats break immersion, and gear should only be tools for survival.

So, that narrows it down. The point is surviving.

As it is now in the mod, the point is amassing gear. Surviving is a nifty way of doing this, but it's not quite the point. It needs to be, though.

How do we make survival a priority? Of course, the prospect of losing gear is an incentive to stay alive, but people become more attached to their gear, not their characters.

If players start giving a shit about that little avatar running incessantly from point A to point B, looting and killing, instead of the gun in his hands, it could change the game.

Dynamic character growth is the way to go. Start out frail and sickly. Maintain a good diet for a day or two? You'll slowly get faster, stronger, with more stamina and your aim less shaky. No way of 'grinding' to get to that point; you actually just need to survive.

Furthermore, you could develop physical traits that reflect your character's progression. Got shot? Clawed? Knifed? You'll have the scars to prove it.

Hell, let us get tattoos. Beards. BEARDS.

BEARDS ARE THE ANSWER.

exactly. the closest we get to this in the mod is ghillie suits, but only because they cant be removed from bodies. in SA i'm sure we'll get attached to our favorite clothes, but in the end its just gear you can find again, not something that would set you apart from a fresh spawn with good luck

[wisper 61]

Permanent items can lead to abuse, (distributing your permanents to buddies and then offing yourself to respawn them is one).

I like both the ideas of Draco122 and Gews... in a way they can be complemantery.

Draco's idea is a substantial benefit that could improve gameplay too, since players might find the skill bonus more valuable then the equipment carried, (less prone to shoot on sight). Still, upon death this benefit should not be carried over to respawn, otherwise people are going to farm skills irrespective of the danger and in detriment to realism. (Go in the middle of a horde to give a transfusion, so that you respawn with the extra skill for example is not very realistic).

If Draco's idea gets implemented, Gews' idea can come to play. A visual indication of a "long fang" (experienced survivor) can lead to people becoming more prone to socialising then now, (cause honnestly this "shoot first ask later" predominent tactic is wearing me down and I haven't seen SA yet..)

[Dr. Goner 661]

BEARDS ARE THE ANSWER.

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Edited May 8, 2013 by DrGonzo

[Dr. Goner 661]

Damnit! How do I add a giff to one of these things?

[AngryMob 14]

seems there are 7 variations on how to deal with persistance... perhaps a poll is in order?

example:

A. performimg actions (kill x people, kill x zombies, survive x time) gives you bonuses to your current life both aesthetically (beards/special clothes/tattoos) and for gameplay/gear (run faster, aim better, free compass), and all bonuses carry over to the next life

B. performing actions only gives aesthetic bonuses and they carry over

C. performing actions only gives gameplay bonuses and they carry over

D. same as A, no carry over

E. same as B, no carry over

F. same as C, no carry over.

G. NO persistance

what exactly the specific bonuses/actions are should be a conversation for after we discuss the types of ways to do it? no?

edit: my opinion about the specifics however is that the bonuses shouldn't offer much if any pvp bonuses, such as "better aim". i like dracos idea from above, where giving x amount of blood transfusions lowers the infection chance. all bonuses should strictly affect pve, or survival. pvp should come down to who has the better gear and tactics. which brings up my opinion about gear and carry over. i don't suggest there being any carryover, and there definitely should be no gear as bonuses. each death should reset your character to default and give you a whole new experience to play through.

Edited May 8, 2013 by AngryMob

[wooly-back-jack 294]

maybe we could go down the route of EA and have premium expansion packs where you pay £15 to spawn with an axe and a map, then a month on pay another £15 to add a 1911 and a compass to your permanent loadout :P

(I'm taking the piss btw)

Edited May 8, 2013 by wooly-back-jack

[rossums 2190]

PvP should be down to skill and what you have on you at that time, not how long you've played and how many times you've done x.

If you've done x so many times already, you already have experience - no need to add more forced benefits.

[Dr. Goner 661]

Permanent items can lead to abuse, (distributing your permanents to buddies and then offing yourself to respawn them is one).

I like both the ideas of Draco122 and Gews... in a way they can be complemantery.

Draco's idea is a substantial benefit that could improve gameplay too, since players might find the skill bonus more valuable then the equipment carried, (less prone to shoot on sight). Still, upon death this benefit should not be carried over to respawn, otherwise people are going to farm skills irrespective of the danger and in detriment to realism. (Go in the middle of a horde to give a transfusion, so that you respawn with the extra skill for example is not very realistic).

If Draco's idea gets implemented, Gews' idea can come to play. A visual indication of a "long fang" (experienced survivor) can lead to people becoming more prone to socialising then now, (cause honnestly this "shoot first ask later" predominent tactic is wearing me down and I haven't seen SA yet..)

Yeah, I like all this. What if the "earned" items could not be removed from inventory? Say it's only items that go into the dedicated slots at the bottom. Does that make sense?

[Dr. Goner 661]

maybe we could go down the route of EA and have premium expansion packs where you pay £15 to spawn with an axe and a map, then a month on pay another £15 to add a 1911 and a compass to your permanent loadout :P

(I'm taking the piss btw)

Hate to burst your bubble, but a lot of private servers already give custom loadouts to paying customers.

[wooly-back-jack 294]

yeah but this thread is about the SA

[AngryMob 14]

PvP should be down to skill and what you have on you at that time, not how long you've played and how many times you've done x.

If you've done x so many times already, you already have experience - no need to add more forced benefits.

i agree about pvp, the gun should be as accurate the 1000th time you pick it up as it was the first time. yourt personal experience as you play the game should drive you to be better at things like shooting and such.

where i agree with doing x and getting x is for percentage based stuff, transfusions again. why is it that after ive done 1000 transfusions im just as likely to infect someone as i was the first time i tried it? since there is no way for me to get better at it in real life (zomg im so good at using scroll wheel!), the game should compensate for my actions. of course, if i die, then the game should reset this, because my character is now a guy who just washed up on the coast or came out of hiding for the first time. he doesnt know that i as a player have done transfusions before :)

[Dr. Goner 661]

PvP should be down to skill and what you have on you at that time, not how long you've played and how many times you've done x.

If you've done x so many times already, you already have experience - no need to add more forced benefits.

I understand what you're saying. I just think there has to be a way to alleviate some of the mind-numbingly-boring-repetitive tasks that are involved. I'm not opposed to the game becoming increasingly harder for veterans either.