3rd Party Interaction, and why it ruins the game

[Perigrin 105]

i totaly agree with the op

it is true that alt tab is unfair, so is calling for help on the forums, but TS is ok, cause, you are in a squad abd need to communicate secretly

some thing to "fix" the teamspeak "problem" is to add new radios and channels, so your squad has a radio channel, BUT others, if they find out the frequency, can listen in

[applejaxc 2500]

The only way to get the kind of gameplay you want is to go Big Brother on every player on the server you're on and monitor all their computer's activity.

You're scared of the "Big Brother" aspect of monitoring your game? I personally don't like BattlEYE. It's finicky, it's touchy, and it's support is subpar (although I 100% respect their policy on bans:"You fucked up. Go cry about it.") I don't like what BattlEYE does. I got a 20 minute cluster efff on my PC because I had a program running that registered data value changes. It was kind of like Cheatengine, but some friends and I had brought it up from more-or-less scratch to test some Minecraft mods we never completed. I'd left Minecraft and the false-positive "Cheat Engine" running when I decided to play a few minutes of DayZ.

BattlEYE initialized, gave me an error like "Injector attempt at ----really long list of numbers and letters, mostly 0000000Xsomething----- which gave me a 000x9c error and crashed ArmA 2 to the desktop... except it kept the rezise of ArmA 2, which I don't play at native resolution, which made my desktop unusuable. I tired CNTRL ALT DELETE and my screen turned into a rave party. After a manual shut off (via power button), I had to sit through 20 minutes of DOS recovering PC acitivity and making sure I didn't just break my PC.

BattlEYE then took the liberty of telling my the false-positive was a cheat every time I tried to play. I opened up task manager and made sure the process wasn't running. I removed it from my PC completely, uninstalled BattlEYE, removed all traces of it from my registry, got rid of every left over .dll, et cetera, and reinstalled, which was the only way of stopping it from running a pesky little process that continously scans your PC for activity BE doesn't like.

I'm not saying that's a bad thing; I think its great that BE is capable to stopping scripts (to some extent), because it at least keeps the laziest of script children away, but why wouldn't the functionality expand to see if Skype is running? See if TS3 is running? You shouldn't be talking to someone on Skype while playing DayZ anyway; A2 takes enough CPU as it is, and it's downright rude to go, "Hold on grandma, I need to shoot some zombies. Okay, what were you saying?"

personally, i think night is much easier to play.

EDIT: All of this talk of realism, Applejaxc. Tell me, please, how many times have you died in DayZ?

When I first started? Plenty. Now? Maybe once a month?

I may be misunderstanding you, but are you suggesting that people that survive for a long time in DayZ are "Unrealistic" ? I think that if you're shot up, going "Bloop bandage and bloodbag" shouldn't save the day, due to the horrible infections you're going to get as a result of getting your stomach all shot to hell, but I don't think people surviving for long in DayZ is unrealistic. A bit irritating when someone has a URAL, NVGs, ghillie suit, AS50, and et cetera, but not unrealistic; DayZ is the survival of the fittest, and those best at using the forums/TS3.

I'm not sure why the dying matters, but when I started, quite a few times. My first life was a cluster efff that lasted maybe 20 minutes. My first spawn was Stary Sobor. I found a CZ550, didn't know putting it in my backpack would delete it, and got chased all the way to Elektrovodsk by zombies. I then had my legs broken and met a player who gave me a FN Fal. I wound up shooting him in the back. He exacted revenge with a frag grenade.

Banned? Definitely not. But I'm still hoping for a difficulty setting that hides the server name, player list, and any other identifier. :) Some of the best times I've had was playing as a lonewolf early on and being completely immersed in the loneliness of the game.

EXACTLY! Take TS out, be a loner. It's a more rewarding experience to run in and out of Elektro in starving desperation by yourself than it is to say, "Hey everyone, let's go to Elektro. Who's flying the chopper?"

Precisely, I'd love the difficulty to be ramped up entirely. Being a noob was so much fun.

That is EXACTLY why TS frustrates me. It takes the challenge out of the game.

---

I basically play with myself (immature jokes aside) when it comes to DayZ; I've got my own mission file that has double zombie spawns and half-loot spawns, almost no vehicles, and no helicopters. Occasionally friends come over. It makes a pretty tense Survival Games setting, where whoever is lucky enough to find a M1911 is King of the server and whoever can find a Winchester first is like Super Optimus Prime Jesus Cyborg Ninja RoboCop.

Edited April 7, 2013 by Applejaxc

[terrvik 2409]

As long as the restrictions are the same for good intentions when it comes to stuff like server hopping I am fine with it, since there really isn't much else that can be done with the meta gaming. What I mean is that you should not be allowed to jump servers even if you are doing it as a medic helping people.

Also, I hope there will be some standalone servers cropping up where the server rules outlaws third party programs. Sort of immersion focused RP communities. I sure would join one. :)

[applejaxc 2500]

As long as the restrictions are the same for good intentions when it comes to stuff like server hopping I am fine with it, since there really isn't much else that can be done with the meta gaming. What I mean is that you should not be allowed to jump servers even if you are doing it as a medic helping people.

Also, I hope there will be some standalone servers cropping up where the server rules outlaws third party programs. Sort of immersion focused RP communities. I sure would join one. :)

A private hive that was 100% vanilla game (the only changes, if any, would make it harder) that promotes roleplaying and social dynamics all wrapped up an a tasty coating of no-TS3? That would be amazing. I would have that server's children.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

When I first started? Plenty. Now? Maybe once a month?

I may be misunderstanding you, but are you suggesting that people that survive for a long time in DayZ are "Unrealistic" ? I think that if you're shot up, going "Bloop bandage and bloodbag" shouldn't save the day, due to the horrible infections you're going to get as a result of getting your stomach all shot to hell, but I don't think people surviving for long in DayZ is unrealistic. A bit irritating when someone has a URAL, NVGs, ghillie suit, AS50, and et cetera, but not unrealistic; DayZ is the survival of the fittest, and those best at using the forums/TS3.

He's saying that mentioning realism isn't allowed because respawning exists in this game. If everything isn't 100% realistic, then nothing has to be. It's a silly notion, I'm surprised it's used so much on these forums.

I basically play with myself (immature jokes aside) when it comes to DayZ; I've got my own mission file that has double zombie spawns and half-loot spawns, almost no vehicles, and no helicopters. Occasionally friends come over. It makes a pretty tense Survival Games setting, where whoever is lucky enough to find a M1911 is King of the server and whoever can find a Winchester first is like Super Optimus Prime Jesus Cyborg Ninja RoboCop.

Is that a private server? It sounds great.

[Rage VG 4033]

He's saying that mentioning realism isn't allowed because respawning exists in this game. If everything isn't 100% realistic, then nothing has to be. It's a silly notion, I'm surprised it's used so much on these forums.

No, he's saying realism isn't as important as convenience, or not invading the rights of players to please a minority of people. Very few players see 3rd party programs as cheating. The majority of players want it in, not just to take advantage of it, but because you have no right to stop them. Updating the TOS for ARMA II just because people are whining about a legitimate "meta-tactic" people are doing on a mod is beyond stupid, no matter how big the mod is.

Edited April 7, 2013 by Rage VG

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

No, he's saying realism isn't as important as convenience, or not invading the rights of players to please a minority of people. Very few players see 3rd party programs as cheating. The majority of players want it in, not just to take advantage of it, but because you have no right to stop them. Updating the TOS for ARMA II just because people are whining about a legitimate "meta-tactic" people are doing on a mod is beyond stupid, no matter how big the mod is.

How about we let Inception correct me if I'm wrong?

[Rage VG 4033]

How about we let Inception correct me if I'm wrong?

Oh right. I forgot Inception was the only person who understands what he says. My bad.

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

EXACTLY! Take TS out, be a loner. It's a more rewarding experience to run in and out of Elektro in starving desperation by yourself than it is to say, "Hey everyone, let's go to Elektro. Who's flying the chopper?"

That is EXACTLY why TS frustrates me. It takes the challenge out of the game.

Where'd that bit about spawning in Stary come from? I checked the thread and didn't see it and I know I didn't post it. :)

Anyway, it should be purely an optional difficulty setting for servers. No one would know if there was only 2 or 100 players on the server. That should help increase the paranoia a bit. No silly side chat, obviously no death messages or any of that nonsense. Just you, an unknown environment and whatever gun and friendly you're lucky enough to come across.

TS still has its place and it does help build communities and communities support the servers we all play on.

[-+BoSS+-Eran Mintor 5]

So basically you want to form a private hive server with people who only play like you, but you don't have the people/friends to do so and thus complain...

Everyone has different playstyles and that is great; diversity is a good thing as it makes space for lonewolves, medics, traders, and all that. We all spent our money on this game because it seemed interesting in many different ways to many different people and while I disagree with some peoples playstyles, I don't trash them for it and say that the game needs to limit them from enjoying it in their own way (barring script kiddies, f them).

Because the game hasn't implemented radios yet, there's nothing to say you and your friends haven't found radios or just use your cellphones to communicate, thus TS and all other voice programs are legitimate even if you're playing it ultra-realistic. Furthermore if you want to complain about 3rd party programs being used for an unrealistic advantage, why not complain about people logging out in general even if it's not during combat? I've never seen someone log out of real life and just disappear infront of my eyes...except that one time my friend got abducted by aliens but hey, that's neither here nor there.

I respect the ultra-realistic playstyle especially because it's how I prefer to play but I don't give a crap if it means I have to fight solo vs a 5 man team that uses TS; it makes the game more challenging which gives it the thrill. I prefer to fight a group of organized people than a bunch of solo players. Furthermore, why are you hunting people if you are trying to play it like a real survival game? Shouldn't you be avoiding unfriendlies rather than stalking them and risking injuring yourself?

Seems to me like you want two different things.

I think instead of trying to add something so unnecessary to the game that would just complicate things, you should instead start looking for a group of players with the similar playstyles you want to start a private hive with, because frankly I don't see this thread going anywhere otherwise...

And if nothing I said allowed you to see a different side of things I'll leave you with this...

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

Oh right. I forgot Inception was the only person who understands what he says. My bad.

No, but you're getting into way more detail than simply reiterating that one sentence.

All of this talk of realism, Applejaxc. Tell me, please, how many times have you died in DayZ?

Applejaxc took it as people surviving for a long time is unrealistic. Which I'm pretty sure isn't what Inception meant, so I offered my opinion of what I thought he meant by that sentence.

Your post might reflect his opinions, but it's not what he meant in that one sentence. At least I don't think it is, perhaps I'm wrong, so I said we should leave it up to Inception to correct who ever is in the wrong.

[Rage VG 4033]

No, but you're getting into way more detail than simply reiterating that one sentence.

Because if you didn't understand it the first time, odds are you won't understand the second time.

Why does it matter whether it comes from my mouth or his? They're equally as valid.

Your post might reflect his opinions, but it's not what he meant in that one sentence. At least I don't think it is, perhaps I'm wrong, so I said we should leave it up to Inception to correct who ever is in the wrong.

When you understand the context behind the question, it's hard to misinterpret his meaning.

Edited April 7, 2013 by Rage VG

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

Because the game hasn't implemented radios yet, there's nothing to say you and your friends haven't found radios or just use your cellphones to communicate, thus TS and all other voice programs are legitimate even if you're playing it ultra-realistic.

Except if I was on the radio or cell phone with a friend, a person standing next to me could hear me talking into it. Also, you could pick up a radio or phone off the bandit you just killed and listen in to his buddies. Can't do any of that with TS.

You assume you know what will be implemented and the limitations of it. I could assume the game will include some advanced base building mechanics down the line, does that justify the use of scripts to spawn structures? Of course not.

[Rage VG 4033]

You assume you know what will be implemented and the limitations of it. I could assume the game will include some advanced base building mechanics down the line, does that justify the use of scripts to spawn structures? Of course not.

No, because nothing that the game could contain would ever justify breaching the ARMA II TOS.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

Because if you didn't understand it the first time, odds are you won't understand the second time.

Why does it matter whether it comes from my mouth or his? They're equally as valid.

When you understand the context behind the question, it's hard to misinterpret his meaning.

How is it not clear to you that this sentence...

All of this talk of realism, Applejaxc. Tell me, please, how many times have you died in DayZ?

means that respawning is unrealistic, therefore we shouldn't use realism as a argument? I might not agree with his statement, but it seems pretty clear.

Nowhere in that sentence did I see mention of invading the rights of players, or changing the arma2 terms of service, or whining about meta-gaming.

[-+BoSS+-Eran Mintor 5]

Sure but people can whisper, use morse code, or have many other ways of communicating with sounds that you would never be able to understand without having some inside knowledge of their groups workings.

If your concern is that you can't hear the white-sound of radio static to alert you of someone nearby, I can understand that, but this is a videogame (unfinished one at that) and you can't expect everything to be perfect. Just because the game doesn't have radios yet doesn't mean that you should play the game as if they don't exist.

Also I assume radios will be in the game because the main developer said there will be, not because I'm Miss Cleo reading a crystal ball. No need to be facetious when I'm giving valid points.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

No, because nothing that the game could contain would ever justify breaching the ARMA II TOS.

So... in cases like this 3rd party stuff, it's hard for you to see what is right or wrong because it's not specified in the terms of service?

Ok, here's another example then, people cite the radios being added as a reason to add side chat back in. But, why did Rocket remove it in the first place then?

If rocket wanted teamspeak to be the voice chat of dayz, it would be more clear. He has outlined his plans for the radios pretty clearly, he has emphasized how authenticity is an important part of the radios. Assuming teamspeak is a good place holder is assuming you know what Rocket wants in the game.

[brawn 11]

I play the game to have fun. I play the game with my friends because it makes it more fun. We use ventrilo to chat while we play because it makes it more fun than running 7km in silence.

If people want to play the game without using anything but in game voice then that's their choice and it doesn't bother me at all. If those same people decide they want to talk over ts/skype who am I to say that what they're doing is unfair? Sure it's not 100% realistic to the basic scenario the game puts forth but at the end of the day it's a game and certain liberties have to be taken to make it more enjoyable and keep people playing it. I play more than my fair share of the game on my own and have been killed by groups of people working together. Sure it's annoying but anybody that's playing this game has the ability to use the same chat programs and play with other people.

Let's just say that for some crazy reason they decided that using 3rd party chat programs were banned. I could just as easily drive over to a friends place and we could play the game there together, chatting in person while still being 10km away from each other in game. It's part of almost all gaming now and people just have to accept that. If it's something they don't feel is right for them or their gaming experience then it's probably better to find a smaller community of like minded individuals.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

Sure but people can whisper, use morse code, or have many other ways of communicating with sounds that you would never be able to understand without having some inside knowledge of their groups workings.

If your concern is that you can't hear the white-sound of radio static to alert you of someone nearby, I can understand that, but this is a videogame (unfinished one at that) and you can't expect everything to be perfect. Just because the game doesn't have radios yet doesn't mean that you should play the game as if they don't exist.

Also I assume radios will be in the game because the main developer said there will be, not because I'm Miss Cleo reading a crystal ball. No need to be facetious when I'm giving valid points.

Exactly, people can whisper and all that. But teamspeak adds none of that to the game.

Let me give you an example, you meet some dude in Elecktro, you team up and run around for a bit. You watch your new friend closely and nothing seems strange, but unknown to you, he is on teamspeak with his friends and plans to kill you once you've loaded up on supplies and his friend gets there. In real life (or a future version of DayZ) you would be able to see him whispering into a phone/radio, even if you couldn't hear what was said. Raising red flags and making you suspicious.

Rocket was pretty clear about the authenticity he wants with regards to the radios. I'm sure if you asked him if teamspeak was a suitable placeholder he would have doubts.

[ihaywirei 12]

This is a video game. If i want to talk to my friends while playing this video game, i will do so. Call it cheating if you want, but you are wrong. /thread

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

If it's something they don't feel is right for them or their gaming experience then it's probably better to find a smaller community of like minded individuals.

That's a great theory. But, how would we go about enforcing it? Why wouldn't clans using teamspeak join that community and get an advantage over the rest of us?

I'm not saying the game should enforce a ban on teamspeak, but I'm saying enforcement could only really happen by changing the game itself. (For example, a difficulty setting that hides server names & player lists)

[fluxley 2228]

Exactly, people can whisper and all that. But teamspeak adds none of that to the game.

Let me give you an example, you meet some dude in Elecktro, you team up and run around for a bit. You watch your new friend closely and nothing seems strange, but unknown to you, he is on teamspeak with his friends and plans to kill you once you've loaded up on supplies and his friend gets there. In real life (or a future version of DayZ) you would be able to see him whispering into a phone/radio, even if you couldn't hear what was said. Raising red flags and making you suspicious.

Rocket was pretty clear about the authenticity he wants with regards to the radios. I'm sure if you asked him if teamspeak was a suitable placeholder he would have doubts.

Then how about have direct always on but it only transmits at a range of about 2 meters.

[p4triot 207]

Banned? Definitely not. But I'm still hoping for a difficulty setting that hides the server name, player list, and any other identifier. :) Some of the best times I've had was playing as a lonewolf early on and being completely immersed in the loneliness of the game.

Hiding player list I would be agree. People tend to play different when the server is empty or full. But the server name? how I am supposed to diferentiate between all the +1927598175 vehicles crap servers and the real good ones?

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

Then how about have direct always on but it only transmits at a range of about 2 meters.

Not a bad idea, but it's too easy to circumvent. I could easily have two microphones, one for teamspeak and one for ingame. Or just power up my xbox and get on an xbox live party chat.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

Hiding player list I would be agree. People tend to play different when the server is empty or full. But the server name? how I am supposed to diferentiate between all the +1927598175 vehicles crap servers and the real good ones?

There would need to be some kind of standardization of server settings for the idea to work. Back when there were no private hives it could have worked because the only differences were the few difficulty levels.

But, then there's the problem of getting back to the server where you just found a humvee or placed a tent. So there would have to be some kind of favorites or history of servers you played on, and maybe the ability to give them nick names.

In the past I've even suggested that an ability of adding someone to your friends could be added. That way if you meet someone in game and add them as your friend you could join the server they're playing on. But, when you died you lose your friends list and server list.(kind of harsh on the tent/vehicles, but death should be harsh imo)