Wind and ballistics system

[Diz (DayZ) 35]

Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD do something.

This feature is idiotic and if implemented had better GD be optional for the server owner to toggle off/on.

It adds unnecessary complication and annoyance.

It's simply a backass way to nerf sniping.

It's will probably not work reliably and as others have pointed out, will simply result in a poorly calculated deviation applied to accuracy at range. In other words: it doesn't require skill to overcome, it simply adds a randomized chance of failure. This is stupid and lazy game design.

If you want wind sounds and swaying trees just ask for that, don't nerf all long distance engagments as a result.

When you largely remove the threat of snipers, you alter the balance of tension in the game.

Lowering the threat of being sniped also lowers the need for people to be careful as they travel overland and lessens the reward for careful, tactical defensive gameplay.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Diz

[R9Rsc68avHbs 8]

After reading through all the replies so far I still think this is a great idea for increasing immersion but only if it really is done well. I understand you probably cant and shouldnt recreate a fully realistic deviation system built on wind but do take care to implement the most obvious cases in the most reasonably realistic way.

A few things I just picked up on are:

• correction in 1/4 or 1/8 MOA
  
• alternating wind directions (looks like thats in but then clouds have to move accordingly)
  
• means of judging direction and speed of wind (craftable or lootable items)
  
• accounting for backside/frontside wind (lower/higher crosshair holdover)
  
• ammunition-related concerns when zeroing horizontally (G1 table)
  
• In overall a table to lookup the neccessary horizontal adjustment depending on distance and wind speed on a per gun basis
  

And I am sure there is more that needs to be taken into account but since I am not a gun nut those seem to be the most obvious for me.

[arkaeldren 53]

Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD do something.

This feature is idiotic and if implemented had better GD be optional for the server owner to toggle off/on.

It adds unnecessary complication and annoyance.

It's simply a backass way to nerf sniping.

It's will probably not work reliably and as others have pointed out, will simply result in a poorly calculated deviation applied to accuracy at range. In other words: it doesn't require skill to overcome, it simply adds a randomized chance of failure. This is stupid and lazy game design.

If you want wind sounds and swaying trees just ask for that, don't nerf all long distance engagments as a result.

When you largely remove the threat of snipers, you alter the balance of tension in the game.

Lowering the threat of being sniped also lowers the need for people to be careful as they travel overland and lessens the reward for careful, tactical defensive game play.

A bad way to "nerf" the snipers??? I don't know how many ways their are, to point out how bad that comment truly is. You mean to give them more real world tactical challenges? Maybe attempt to make it more realistic? A way to make a sniper become actually "good" at his job? Or just take away the type of gunplay you like the best cause its easy as hell to "zero' "aim" then "kill" from 1000m? Instead of the last part of your comment, just change a few words and say, maybe we need to increase the tactical job of the sniper so when they get a kill from great distance, it is earned through using tools and training? "Nerfing snipers" they didn't change the strength of the sniper type weapons, nor are they reducing their drop rate again. They are suggesting to implement a "real world" variable that is utmost important to sniping. IMO your a sniper and your complaining that your job might start requiring you to use a "little bit" of skill, on windy days. Sorry man, Cry a bit more. This is a GREAT idea, if they can make it work with 2-3 types of windage gauges.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Arkael Dren

[Charb 298]

seems like smoke grenades might be the poor man's windometer.

[Azrail (DayZ) 211]

I agree with shadowboxer. One the surface, great idea, but then I get thinking how are you supposed to accurately guesstimate the wind? Real world snipers have a spotter to range and judge the wind. It's hard enough finding a rangefinder in DayZ.

windmeter, toolbelt item - smoke - trees - bushes - sound - leaves - clouds

It's will probably not work reliably and as others have pointed out, will simply result in a poorly calculated deviation applied to accuracy at range. In other words: it doesn't require skill to overcome, it simply adds a randomized chance of failure. This is stupid and lazy game design.

let me guess, you like to snipe fresh spawns in elektro? and with that addition, your endgame content would be busted? life is a bitch, ain't it?

Edited April 4, 2013 by Azrail

[liquidmind 320]

Maybe I'm dense for thinking this but wouldn't a piece of cloth on a stick work to gauge wind direction? Not a thing a 'serious' sniper would use I guess but it would work right?

I was thinking the same TBH. That's all that's needed as a visual indication for the player.

My first instinct was the same. my second was wether that would give a reliable value one could work with.

But considering that I was not alone in my initial thought, there probably is something about it :-)

[badluckburt 974]

My second was wether that would give a reliable value one could work with.

It takes practice, just like estimating distance. Perhaps there should be some sort of sandbox environment so you can come to grips with it, most people practiced flying the Armory before doing it in DayZ.

[rob1pr26@yahoo.com 6]

Thats funny you put wind factor into this game and the bullet steers left or right. Look at the grass, does it look like the wind is pushing it to one direction? No. So nothing indicates wind. So this is a very bad idea. And dont be putting more crap on my screen telling me in which direction the wind is going and at what speed. If I cant see wind in game graphics than its not immersive. Pass on this feature please.

[DemonGroover 8836]

How the wind speed and direction is going to be conveyed to the player could be a problem. I don't want icons onscreen either.

Perhaps it can be done by audio (you hear a strong gust from your right). Then i suppose it is trial and error with your first shot probably missing the target but giving you an indication of what effect the wind is having.

Ideas?

[SmashT 10907]

I thought it was done by audio in the video?

I've played on a server that had leaves blowing as well, hard to see if something like that is used in the video for a visual indicator as well as smoke etc.

Edited April 5, 2013 by smasht_AU

[DemonGroover 8836]

Yeah i think it does. I suppose watching the video doesn't relay exactly what it is like. Be good to try it out.

Or maybe my headphones are crap!

Edited April 5, 2013 by DemonGroover

[aussiestig 681]

Wind speed detector as a tool, that you can find? Maybe it should be something that is as hard to find as a sniper itself.

[DemonGroover 8836]

I'd prefer you just have to guess the wind speed yourself and adjust your shot accordingly.

[-Gews- 7443]

In real life you can feel the wind on your body or judge from other objects... I'm sure there will be some kind of system introduced to judge it (not like some kind of human Kestrel 4500, but a close enough guess), otherwise Balliztic has a very good point. I thought ACE did it well with the coloured arrows (heheh notice an ACE theme here?). I don't have a problem with icons that are only on-screen when you press a key-combo to view them.

I read somewhere that British snipers once used IRA flags to judge wind speed and were able to make hits out to over 1,400 yards... now that's impressive.

[Require 10]

So in addition to wind affecting bullets and sniper shots, is there going to be more wind gauges such as weather instruments, flags blowing, and dials to change on snipers for more accurate shooting?

Or will this feature just be added into the SA?

Edited April 5, 2013 by Require

[Trizzo 632]

- Is the wind measured only from the muzzle or throughout the entire trajectory? Is the wind just one direction or can it change throughout the flight of the projectile?

- Currently fooliage/sound is the indicator, do you plan to add mirage shimme, foliage blowing or other visual cues?

Razor, again, you and the crew are the fucking bomb! This will crush snipers and let the cream of the crop get respect from their kills.

Some other suggestions other visual signal that could be easy to implement (no idea about programming!). First is a can of spray, similar in szie nose spray or spray on deoderant. You can buy them for hunting. You use them to gauge which way the wind is blowing so you know where your scent is blowing. You simply spray the spray vertically and watch where the fine cloud of mist blows. That or a cigarette lighter. The flame flickers the way the wind is blowing.

-edit- about the can of spray idea. I noticed that the smoke grenade was blowing in the direction of the wind, would it be possible to make a mini version of the smoke and put it into a can of spray so you get a tiny puff of "mist"? JUST saying :P

Edited April 9, 2013 by Trizzo

[Tek (DayZ) 95]

As the poster above started to ask.

Visual aids to help us figure out the wind? Not only where we are at, but where the bullet is going. If it's blowing 1 mph from the North where i'm shooting, is it going to be the same at my target? Or is it going to be completely different, like 30 mph from the South? If it's uniform through out (with variations of course) then you effectively kill sniping in the game.

Now, for another important question. If someone asked it already I apologize, as I did not read the whole thread.

Is the added wind feature for ballistics also going to help mask shot sounds? If it's windy, and your upwind of a shot, it becomes much harder to hear that shot. Conversely if you're on the other side of a mountain and it's extremely windy, and someone shoots on the other side of the mountain, it becomes harder to hear the shot. Not saying it shouldn't be hear, but more difficult to be heard.

If you add one, you should add the other. Just because people cry about snipers being to easy in no way means they are easy. Wind is good, as long as everything is taken into account.

People are crying about realism. Part of realism is the sound waves of the bullet being heard or not being heard based on wind, terrain, and direction of the shot.

[GodOfGrain 191]

ACE has a small arrow indicating the wind direction / speed when you need it

- along with the Kestrell device to measure it accurately.

"No Hud" is fine, but I prefer to have wind influencing long range shots...

A handkerchief to indicate wind direction / speed could be the solution...

By the way, is the word "handkerchief" used these days?

BE / AE?

It sounds so ancient ;)

Thanks

Edited April 11, 2013 by GodOfGrain

[Tigger (DayZ) 24]

Great. Can't wind judging be done like in ACE? Get a arrow with color? That is about equivalent to licking a finger and sticking it up, but you can do well if you have some experience.

[trichome (DayZ) 198]

i know people will disagree, and have different opinions i respect that, dont get me wrong i dont want the game to become CoD, but arma2/dayz already has bullet drop/travel, imo adding wind is too much.

Why would it be too much??? If your sniping ir your affected by the wind so why should DayZ not have it?? As I sniper I look forward to this, anything that adds to the realism is good as far as I'm concerned excluding the rampant infected/zombies ofcourse.

And lets face it if you can't hit a barn door now you still won't be able to hit one with this implemented. Seasoned snipers won't be phased by this in the slighest it's the newbies that will struggle.

Nobody said it would be easy B)

[intensity 157]

Maybe we should just put ACE combined with DayZ.

[spankerfist 44]

Awesome job razor & co. I spent most time as a sniper and i really like this its gonna add a little challenge to sniping. Too easy at the moment.

I have doubts that it will be realistic in any fashion. Time after Time it's been revealed that windage ballistic models in video games are always just a random variable added since there is no real accurate way to simulate any sort of actual gauge, either through a tool or "lickin your finger".

Most likely, after seeing the actual quality produced by the current volunteers, it will just piss everyone off and make long range weapons practically useless.

Most people I know playing the mod at this point have lost faith in the development direction and are waiting for SA.

Practically useless? what do you base this on?. So you want overpowered snipers that can kill you from

800 meters away but dont want wind to be a factor because its to hard for you?. This wil hopefully get rid of all the Cod snipers.

Edited April 30, 2013 by SnakeDoctor

[Pwny (DayZ) 21]

Want to bet that all the campers start to cry about all this because its not like COD :lol:

Welp, as a camper I'm not complaining :X

Will there be any way of calculating the wind affects? Otherwise it would be a bit retarded, sniping at long distances with no proper way of knowing where the bullet will land.

[Felixthefriendlycat 92]

This update is really amazing, the accurate deveation of projectiles will make gunfights much more realistic and wielding a sniper will become a challenge ( as it should be). I do believe sound is 40% of the experience, and those indoor sound effects will definately add to the immersion. I have the feeling this update will be one of the best so far, excellent job dev team!

[nL.Jason 8]

that's my dream for my dayz sniping , actually makes it kinda hard to shoot a running target since you probably dont stand still for 2 minutes, gotta calculate the wind and distance quickly