'New spawn' store/perk system

[Xianyu 820]

I know, I know. The mention of a 'store' or 'perks' immediately sends you all batshit crazy and ready to hit that 'flame' button, but hear me out.

DayZ has no real 'progression' to speak of. It's just loot and run away. 'perk' systems are almost always unbalancing towards new players, and just makes it a mess.

What I'm thinking is, a store for a new spawn. As in, when you spawn on the beach, you 'pay' for supplies. Not with money, but with 'experience'.

Experience would be earned through acts, DEFINITELY NOT BY SHOOTING PEOPLE. Bandaging someone, giving someone a bloodbag, walking a certain distance, passive gain of exp over time, etc, these things would all give you a certain amount of exp to spend in this once-per-spawn store.

The store would contain very, very basic survival gear. A backpack for an insane amount of exp. A makarov for about the same insane amount. A mag for the makarov. A tin of beans. A can of coke. Maybe a canteen of water for large amounts of exp. A box of matches. A flashlight. That's it.

Each of these items would be one purchase only, per life. Ergo, if you saved up ten lives worth of exp, you could get a new spawn on the beach with a makarov with a single mag, a larger backpack, a canteen of water, a tin of beans, a can of coke, a flashlight and a box of matches. That's it. That is the entire extent of the shop. No ammunition for military weapons. No NVG's. No sniper rifles. No super epic awesome shit. Just very, very basic shit.

The entire point of it would be to say 'hey, you survived for FIFTY GODDAMN DAYS all on your lonesome. Here's a pistol and a backpack. Get back to surviving, buddy.' Or to help a team member get back to his team. If you spawn on the coast and your teammates are up north, it can be a painful hour of running, which is only extended by the need to stop and loot places, which will be exacerbated in the standalone due to the new systems put in place.

It would help both new players and the more experienced ones. And a makarov is NOT a dangerous weapon. You can empty an entire mag into a guy and still not kill them. It's a zombie-killing weapon, that's it. Beans, a backpack, a canteen. Those are all just stopgaps. The canteen and backpack might last you a while, but if the backpack is reasonable (say a normal coyote pack), it's nothing that an experienced player wouldn't be able to find in under half an hour anyway.

And I can't stress enough: No exp for shooting people. We have enough KoS bullshit without incentivising it. And for the people that survive for 50+ days, you get a bunch of respawns with survival gear. You get an easier time of respawning as a reward for surviving so damn long.

With a few tweaks, it wouldn't be too hard to make the makarov and backpack insanely hard to purchase. So if you use it to immediately hunt other players, and get killed, you won't get another one for days.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Xianyu

[Steak and Potatoes 13480]

http://i.imgur.com/ojE5cIu.png"]

[Xianyu 820]

-snip-

Thank you for eloquent arguments. I shall file them away promptly.

[Max Planck 7174]

The entire point of it would be to say 'hey, you survived for FIFTY GODDAMN DAYS all on your lonesome. Here's a pistol and a backpack. Get back to surviving, buddy.'

I think death should have more of an impact, not less.

The whole 'Death is final and harsh' deal is really important to the experience it think, crucial even.

[Xianyu 820]

I think death should have more of an impact, not less.

The whole 'Death is final and harsh' deal is really important to the experience it think, crucial even.

You realise, of course, that you used to start with a one-shot-kill revolver? And then later on, a makarov?

Death is meaningless in DayZ for someone who knows how to play the game. Being handed a pistol as a new spawn would be a luxury convenience rather than a game-changing kind of thing.

Plus, if you spawn with a zombie-killing weapon and enough food and water to make it inland, you're less likely to run through Cherno and Elektro, directly reducing the amount of players that go there and, conversely, reducing the amount of people who camp there to kill new spawns, while making the two cities more viable for the people who DO want to loot them.

[Max Planck 7174]

You realise, of course, that you used to start with a one-shot-kill revolver? And then later on, a makarov?

I do realise this, but I don't understand why you bring it up. What is your point?

Death is meaningless in DayZ for someone who knows how to play the game.

Death is meaningless for someone who's using a lootmap, I don't think this is intentional.

Being handed a pistol as a new spawn would be a luxury convenience rather than a game-changing kind of thing.

Why have it then, what is the point of 'luxury' in a supposedly harsh, cruel permadeath game?

Edited February 25, 2013 by Max Planck

[Dancing.Russian.Man 1631]

DayZ was designed to be impossibly cruel, dark, and brutal. It was not designed as a game it was more of an experiment, I prefer the term "anti-game" - in other words the mechanics are not designed to be balanced, or offer a way out for different situations.

It is the kind of system/environment that will sometimes make you want to punch the computer screen. But with that kind of risk, comes great emotional reward when you carry something off.

Why make something that has already been done?

I hear what everyone is saying, and yes - its cruel and unsporting when you get killed 10 seconds into the game. But that's what this is, it is brutal, it is cruel. This is not fair. Maybe you will hate this game. Maybe you already do. It is an unforgiving environment with no structure. It is up to you to decide what to do next.

I would rather let the project die (and maybe it will, I accept that) than take over the role of establishing rules and punishments and structure. Instead I am going to work on the world's framework.

So here's the challenge - just take a moment and think about what you are asking me for, with alot of these requests. Balancing, structure, rules, protection. These are what the game industry has shoved in your face for the last twenty years. Even the game industry itself can't escape it. EVE-Online tried briefly but caved in. Why? Money. They needed subscribers.

I don't.

This is going all the way, to whatever end that is.

Stripped some unrelated things off of his posts. The full, exact posts he made can be found in my signature.

Ever since he first posted those two things, I've always kept them there.

And those two posts are what I expect from DayZ. Anything that goes against them, I am against.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Dancing.Russian.Man

[BAHADIR 124]

DayZ is not a game like Skyrim. Loot and run. Its not that hard, is it ?

[-Gews- 7443]

Experience would be earned through acts, DEFINITELY NOT BY SHOOTING PEOPLE. Bandaging someone, giving someone a bloodbag, walking a certain distance, passive gain of exp over time, etc, these things would all give you a certain amount of exp to spend in this once-per-spawn store.

Not again...

God, what is it with this namby-pamby care bear nonsense?

Why don't you want to reward successful bandits!

Stop punishing other play styles!

[thederper121 95]

A store/perk system would make the game more like an RPG/Warz then probably what Rocket wants it to be.

It's harsh, cold, and there are the occasional bandits and strange friendly people.

Leave it like that.

[thesodesa 99]

I think death should have more of an impact, not less.

The whole 'Death is final and harsh' deal is really important to the experience it think, crucial even.

Now they just have to make your own items inaccessible to you within a certain time frame, say 2 days and we're all set. It would be silly not to allow the items to be cycled back to you at some point.

It's very possible since items are now objects, instead of strings, so a record of their owners and the owners' death times can be stored "inside" the items themselves.

Edited February 25, 2013 by TheSodesa

[Zionist Wabbit 154]

Gather up, guize! I find this game difficult.. So can I plzzz z buy items form spawn? plzzzz it wont be rpg becuase this is dayz not and rpg.. plzz i csnt find any items so can i plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz buy tehm>??>

[Max Planck 7174]

Now they just have to make your own items inaccessible to you within a certain time frame, say 2 days and we're all set. It would be silly not to allow the items to be cycled back to you at some point.

It's very possible since items are now objects, instead of strings, so a record of their owners and the owners' death times can be stored "inside" the items themselves.

It would be really hard though, to come up with a good ingame explanation for why you couldn't touch a specific can of beans/makarov/lovedoll/magazine.

I don't think looting ones own corpse is enough of a problem to implement something arbitrary like that.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Max Planck

[Steak and Potatoes 13480]

It would be really hard though, to come up with a good ingame explanation for why you couldn't touch a specific can of beans/makarov/lovedoll/magazine.

I don't think looting ones own corpse is enough of a problem to implement something arbitrary like that.

I see what thou did there, clever girl.

[maui.arupa@gmail.com 16]

It's funny how the DayZ project is like a real blessing, a dream finally coming true, in the heart of gamers, a real breath of fresh air, (and even more for lovers of FPS genre/Zombie flick fans),

yet, some feel lost and still ask for it to fit in the same old mold, gimmicks and what not,.they still want to be taken by the hand.

The questions raised are good, but OP should follow more carefully the devellopement of the SA (we're quite cherished regarding it), but those kind of suggestion doesn't fit. In this case for example, its because in the mod, infected are merely an annoyance, so this should worked on, not build something to work around it.

[Xianyu 820]

Not again...

God, what is it with this namby-pamby care bear nonsense?

Why don't you want to reward successful bandits!

Stop punishing other play styles!

Because bandits are already rewarded in excess by the loot from the people they kill?

And I love how everyone automatically goes to 'omg he's suggesting this, he must suck at the game'. I can gear up in half an hour. I've had a character survive 50 days and then get killed by a hacker. I know how to play the game.

But when you've got an hour to play the game, and you want to meet up with your friends, you spend that HOUR searching for food and water and maybe a weapon, only to meet up with your friend and then one of you has to leave.

And then, neither of you can play until you're both on, or you both end up miles away from eachother again.

[Pyro_Marine 147]

Want a "store" go play "WarZ" and fuck rightly off from our anti-game.

This is for the big boys. Don't like our playground? There's some toddler swings right over there *points to WarZ*.

Don't like losing your shit? Don't be an uncaring twat. Look at your surroundings. Play it as you would live it.

This is coming from a survivor-hero.

[Xianyu 820]

Want a "store" go play "WarZ" and fuck rightly off from our anti-game.

This is for the big boys. Don't like our playground? There's some toddler swings right over there *points to WarZ*.

Don't like losing your shit? Don't be an uncaring twat. Look at your surroundings. Play it as you would live it.

This is coming from a survivor-hero.

Yawn. Another person with a straw-man argument. 'You must suck at the game, so shut the fuck up.'

I've played for months. I don't NEED a store like I suggested. I can crawl through cherno, or elektro, and find everything I need. I don't get killed by bandits. I've been killed by zombies at least four times as much as by other people, including script kiddies. I've had a character survive 50 days before getting killed by hacks. Do I really sound like someone who needs something like this to get by?

It's a convenience thing. When it takes roughly an hour or more to find a pistol and such as a new spawn, because you have to belly-crawl past the zombies unless it's twilight out, that is a lot of peoples entire playtime right there. It discourages squad play. So I made a suggestion that wouldn't change the game balance at all and ease respawn for people who play the game a lot.

But hey, just because I have ideas must mean I suck at the game. I'd love for you to wander in front of my scope sometime. I'd break the 'no KoS' rule I set myself for a bigoted prick like you. Kthnxbai.

[IkaikaKekai 1957]

Any kind of 'store' system could be farmed, no matter how 'expensive' you make the items. Survive for a week or two, pack your stuff in a tent and walk naked into Cherno with a sandwich board saying "I HATE SNIPERS!" ala Die Hard. Now you've got a shiny new gun, some ammo, backpack, beans, and/or any other thing that you could buy. As for perks? No.

[Max Planck 7174]

Yawn. Another person with a straw-man argument. 'You must suck at the game, so shut the fuck up.'

You are the one who choose to reply to the 'fuck-off-you-suck' type of posts, instead of having a debate with those of us who don't respond to you like that. For instance, you ignored the questions I asked you here: http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/125579-new-spawn-storeperk-system/#entry1203831

My guess, you like to argue more than to discuss.

[Xianyu 820]

Any kind of 'store' system could be farmed, no matter how 'expensive' you make the items. Survive for a week or two, pack your stuff in a tent and walk naked into Cherno with a sandwich board saying "I HATE SNIPERS!" ala Die Hard. Now you've got a shiny new gun, some ammo, backpack, beans, and/or any other thing that you could buy. As for perks? No.

Yes, because it makes sense to farm a store like that, that sells makarovs and beans...

I mean, it's not like you can walk into any supermarket in the game and pick up three backpacks, a tent, a shotgun, twenty cans of beans, and twenty cans of coke. Never happens.

You are the one who choose to reply to the 'fuck-off-you-suck' type of posts, instead of having a debate with those of us who don't respond to you like that. For instance, you ignored the questions I asked you here: http://dayzmod.com/f...m/#entry1203831

My guess, you like to argue more than to discuss.

The only 'point' you made was ermagherd permadeath harsh.

Which is a lie. Sure you lose your items. Kinda. But tents and vehicle storage have made permadeath kinda meh. If you really actually have a problem with dying on a server you've spent more than a few hours on, then there's something wrong with how you play the game. Sure you might not have a building, but after an hour me and my squad mate can have a tent stash with backpacks, assault rifles, food, water, and survival supplies.

[Max Planck 7174]

The only 'point' you made was ermagherd permadeath harsh.

I never said I made a 'point', you made that up to suit your purpose.

I did ask some clarifying questions though, which you still refuse to answer.

Which is a lie. Sure you lose your items. Kinda. But tents and vehicle storage have made permadeath kinda meh.

Yeah, I don't think tents are being handled the best way they could, but the presence of a problem does not excuse the creation of more problems.

If permadeath is 'meh', it should be made less 'meh' not more.

If you really actually have a problem with dying on a server you've spent more than a few hours on, then there's something wrong with how you play the game.

Who the hell are you to tell me I'm playing the game the wrong way?

If that's the way you are going to argue for your idea, then every oneliner/video response is completely justified.

What incredible arrogance.

Sure you might not have a building, but after an hour me and my squad mate can have a tent stash with backpacks, assault rifles, food, water, and survival supplies.

Not everybody plays with squadmates, not everybody uses lootmaps, not everybody sees the gearing up process as something you have to speed through so you can go kill people.

To me, the part where you are most vulnerable is the best part of the game, so of course I try to prolong this by avoiding cheesy loot farming.

Is that 'wrong' too?

[shadowleaper 22]

Hmmm after reading some posts here and the quotes from Rocket...

I think Day Z should remain brutal. I do like the idea of a facilitated spawn after many deaths, but then again, I'm worried it'd crush the original concept of the game. Personally I'm gonna say 'Whatever the designer had in mind, let's stick to that', it's his unique vision, and I like the new refreshing experiences.

[Private Evans 1303]

Now they just have to make your own items inaccessible to you within a certain time frame, say 2 days and we're all set. It would be silly not to allow the items to be cycled back to you at some point.

It's very possible since items are now objects, instead of strings, so a record of their owners and the owners' death times can be stored "inside" the items themselves.

the way I see it....

There should be some sort of script or game mechanic that makes it impossible to loot your own dead body This should also include gear in tents and vehicles. Inventories of killed players should be cleared after some time ( same goes for tents and vehicles) .Tents should be limited to only one per player.

Starter gear could be random, for example a watch, a box of matches, a bandage, painkillers, a flashlight, a piece of chocolate but no backpack and defenetely no weapon !! Player spawnpoints should be all along the coast from Balota up to Berezino ( I would prefer all over the map though)....no buddy spawns !!!

PS: I would even ban skype and teamspeak...since this is of course not realistic I am hoping for some more immersion orientated servers...

Edited February 26, 2013 by Private Evans

[thederper121 95]

I never said I made a 'point', you made that up to suit your purpose.

I did ask some clarifying questions though, which you still refuse to answer.

Yeah, I don't think tents are being handled the best way they could, but the presence of a problem does not excuse the creation of more problems.

If permadeath is 'meh', it should be made less 'meh' not more.

Who the hell are you to tell me I'm playing the game the wrong way?

If that's the way you are going to argue for your idea, then every oneliner/video response is completely justified.

What incredible arrogance.

Not everybody plays with squadmates, not everybody uses lootmaps, not everybody sees the gearing up process as something you have to speed through so you can go kill people.

To me, the part where you are most vulnerable is the best part of the game, so of course I try to prolong this by avoiding cheesy loot farming.

Is that 'wrong' too?

Why do you make everything so hard to read?