What if we removed the crosshair?

[Alex__2 11]

Remove it its not needed and kinda ruins the game!

[big_t 66]

ban the crosshair, ban 3rd person - long live realism and diffculty

This.

[MuhQ 5]

Remove crosshair and 3rd person, ty gg. Also no such a thing as hero or bandit skins...

[misterwit 118]

Should be fine as long as you make it easy to look at and pick up things without a crosshair to help you look at it.

[JayTee13 1]

Well the game is based on realism/the most realistic military simulation game known to man. So I'd say it wouldn't really matter too much and I'd do anything to get rid of as many hackers as possible.

Edited January 30, 2013 by JayTee13

[misterwit 118]

Maybe you could implement a ghosting crosshair, where after holding a gun at the hip (without running) for a while, a circle crosshair will fade in to represent your character's visualization of where they are aiming. This will help with looking at loot spawns to pick out the things you want and can help new players get used to the interface/using a gun a bit, and won't hurt the importance of aiming your weapon much.

[theodoredrenov@yahoo.com 1]

I would like to see both the cross-hairs and 3rd person removed. DayZ is meant to appeal more to the hardcore side of gaming. I also think weapons need to be brought back up to realistic levels. If a player is shot in the chest by 7.62x51 they just walk it off. It should drop them almost instantly. Id say about 10,000-11,000 blood in damage for that round is good. I'l put a suggested damage table below for the various rounds currently seen in the mod minus the anti-material rifles.

Chest damage is damage done when the round impacts a players chest without protection. Limbs is for both arms and legs. Vest is for damage and penetration chance with a ballistic vest on, only changes damage to chest. Even in events when no damage is taken players will still be stunned as if they were shot. This is considering that all ammunition is the standard FMJ round.

Handguns

9x18mm (Makarov) Chest: 2,000 | Limbs: 1,500 | Vest: 0 blood 0% penetration

9x19mm (M9, G17, PDW) Chest: 2,250 | Limbs: 1,500-1,750 | Vest: 0 blood 0% penetration

.45 ACP (M1911, Revolver) Chest: 3,500 | Limbs: 2,500 | Vest: 0 blood 0% penetration

Mid powered rifles

5.56x45 NATO (M4/M16, L85, M249) Chest: 6,500 | Limbs:3,000 | Vest: 2,000 blood 10% penetration

5.45x39 (AK-74,AKS-74U) Chest: 6,500 | Limbs: 4,000 | Vest: 2,000 blood 10% penetration

7.62x39 (AKM) Chest: 8,000 | Limbs: 5,500 | Vest: 2,500 blood 15% penetration

High Powered Rifles

7.62x51 (M14, DMR, M24, FAL) Chest: 10,000-11,000 | Limbs: 8,000 | Vest: 6,000 blood 40% penetration

.303 British (Lee Enfield) Chest: 9,000-10,000 | Limbs 7,500 | Vest: 6,000 blood 30% penetration

9.3x62 (CZ 550) Chest: 10,000-11,000 | Limbs: 8,000 | Vest: 6,000 blood 35% penetration

7.62x54r (SVD) Chest: 10,000-11,000 | Limbs: 8,000 | Vest: 6,000 blood 45% penetration

Shotguns

12 Gauge Slug: Chest: 9,000-10,000 | Limbs: 7,000 | Vest: 0 blood 0% penetration

12 Gauge 00 Buckshot: Chest: 2,000 per pellet | Limbs: 1000, per pellet | Pellets count: 9 | Vest: 0 blood 0% penetration

[law1977 17]

I am more for realism, there are not many games which just that "games", not realistic and give the person lots of help. So remove the crosshair from the get go and see how it goes, if its turning into a problem and there are to many people saying i need a crosshair. Maybe use it as a server option, but I think you will get more satisfaction from killing without the aid

[CornThatLefty (DayZ) 0]

From a combat standpoint, it's a great idea. But as said before, in the current nature of the game, doing actions without a crosshair is a challenge.

I think revamping the 'use' functionality would be a good idea.

Maybe have it so you could use items, pick up loot, climb ladders, if you are within a .7 meter radius of them. So you don't have to be looking at it. However, this would be counter-acted by walls.

From a combat standpoint, who's to say people won't stick small pieces of paper on their screens? If you remove crosshair, hip-fire should be ridiculously inaccurate.

Also, add the ability to click-&-hold to aim down sights? Transferring from one to the other is quite tedious.

[CornThatLefty (DayZ) 0]

I would like to see both the cross-hairs and 3rd person removed. DayZ is meant to appeal more to the hardcore side of gaming. I also think weapons need to be brought back up to realistic levels. If a player is shot in the chest by 7.62x51 they just walk it off. It should drop them almost instantly. Id say about 10,000-11,000 blood in damage for that round is good. I'l put a suggested damage table below for the various rounds currently seen in the mod minus the anti-material rifles.

Chest damage is damage done when the round impacts a players chest without protection. Limbs is for both arms and legs. Vest is for damage and penetration chance with a ballistic vest on, only changes damage to chest. Even in events when no damage is taken players will still be stunned as if they were shot. This is considering that all ammunition is the standard FMJ round.

Handguns

9x18mm (Makarov) Chest: 2,000 | Limbs: 1,500 | Vest: 0 blood 0% penetration

9x19mm (M9, G17, PDW) Chest: 2,250 | Limbs: 1,500-1,750 | Vest: 0 blood 0% penetration

.45 ACP (M1911, Revolver) Chest: 3,500 | Limbs: 2,500 | Vest: 0 blood 0% penetration

Mid powered rifles

5.56x45 NATO (M4/M16, L85, M249) Chest: 6,500 | Limbs:3,000 | Vest: 2,000 blood 10% penetration

5.45x39 (AK-74,AKS-74U) Chest: 6,500 | Limbs: 4,000 | Vest: 2,000 blood 10% penetration

7.62x39 (AKM) Chest: 8,000 | Limbs: 5,500 | Vest: 2,500 blood 15% penetration

High Powered Rifles

7.62x51 (M14, DMR, M24, FAL) Chest: 10,000-11,000 | Limbs: 8,000 | Vest: 6,000 blood 40% penetration

.303 British (Lee Enfield) Chest: 9,000-10,000 | Limbs 7,500 | Vest: 6,000 blood 30% penetration

9.3x62 (CZ 550) Chest: 10,000-11,000 | Limbs: 8,000 | Vest: 6,000 blood 35% penetration

7.62x54r (SVD) Chest: 10,000-11,000 | Limbs: 8,000 | Vest: 6,000 blood 45% penetration

Shotguns

12 Gauge Slug: Chest: 9,000-10,000 | Limbs: 7,000 | Vest: 0 blood 0% penetration

12 Gauge 00 Buckshot: Chest: 2,000 per pellet | Limbs: 1000, per pellet | Pellets count: 9 | Vest: 0 blood 0% penetration

There's a point where realism stops being fun.

The fact of the matter is, i use third-person because it gives that 'sixth-sense' that people seem to have. Not even bringing FOV into the argument, first-person just reduces natural human awareness. I only use it for combat.

Also, with the gun damage issue, there's a fun drain when you're down in 2 shots by a gun weaker than yours. If you play for 16 hours, just to be killed by someone with a winchester, there's that rage feeling you get. Though I completely agree new players should have about the same chance of winning as vets, there should be an advantage slope for those with higher grade guns. (Maybe reliability, accuracy, cleanliness, etc.)

[hoik 415]

Maybe you could implement a ghosting crosshair, where after holding a gun at the hip (without running) for a while, a circle crosshair will fade in to represent your character's visualization of where they are aiming. This will help with looking at loot spawns to pick out the things you want and can help new players get used to the interface/using a gun a bit, and won't hurt the importance of aiming your weapon much.

I though of something simular, but instead of the CH appearing after a amount of time, it could be contextual. Eg. looking at/near a door, lader, can of beans etc. will activate a subtle CH (like the white one you suggest). This cross hair should be totally independant of aiming so that it can not be exploited.

Edited January 30, 2013 by Hoik

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

I don't mind the removal of crosshairs from firearms, but for melee I like there being a crosshair.

[big_t 66]

The other arguments in favor: difficult to climb ladders, aim axe, crossbow, etc. are probably better addressed in ways other than just keeping the crosshairs.

I agree, Crosshairs or no crosshairs issue should be debated in terms of ballistic combat.

Player interaction with objects needs to be addressed in a big way anyway and imho is one of the main contributing factors to the glitchy feel when playing the game. If somehow the detectable area of live objects could be increased (ei the area around a ladder that is clickable) possibly this could help. Also having a set general "action" key would be great, although I'm not sure if there is a way to keybind currently.

When running from zombies and trying to climb a ladder, realistically you would just scramble up that bad boy in a hurry, not stop aim your rifle around at the base, then take the time scroll wheel click to climb it. Thats what makes the game feel awkward and sometimes frustrating.

[w.westhoeve@hotmail.com 5]

Give the server a choice, there is a reason that a really large group of players is playing on regular servers with CH:ON.

Would be a bummer if you took it away from them.

[machineabuse 31]

I like the idea of removing the crosshair certainly. In fact I think all first person shooters should do away with the crosshair. That said the position of the first person weapon in ArmA2 being roughly between the 4-5 o'clock position is terribly unnatural. In reality if you had a weapon in the shoulder it would be somewhere between the 5-6 o'clock position.

So yes, be rid of the crosshair to bid farewell to aiming without ADS, but reposition the camera to the natural position that allows for pointshooting. Reasonably; pointshooting has its place.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

I like the idea of removing the crosshair certainly. In fact I think all first person shooters should do away with the crosshair. That said the position of the first person weapon in ArmA2 being roughly between the 4-5 o'clock position is terribly unnatural. In reality if you had a weapon in the shoulder it would be somewhere between the 5-6 o'clock position.

So yes, be rid of the crosshair to bid farewell to aiming without ADS, but reposition the camera to the natural position that allows for pointshooting. Reasonably; pointshooting has its place.

It's not "unnatural", there is no "first person view models" in arma, what you see is the actual gun your character aim, and the bullet will come out exactly from the weapon's barrel. One of the things that make arma different from a lot of FPS games.

[machineabuse 31]

It's not "unnatural", there is no "first person view models" in arma, what you see is the actual gun your character aim, and the bullet will come out exactly from the weapon's barrel. One of the things that make arma different from a lot of FPS games.

I never said anything about first person models but for the sake of clarity please read that as "the position of the weapon from 1st person". And what I am alluding to is the fact that the position that the character is holding the weapon is an unnaturally offset stock weld against his deltoid and not in the pocket of the shoulder where it should be.

The correct stock weld would put the weapon at 5-6 o'clock as perceived with both eyes open.

For the record and not to be rude, I am aware of the method by which ArmA's camera works. What I am saying is that there are a few things that have fallen through the gaps, the correct position of the weapon being one of them, another the absence of cheekweld in the simulation.

Edited January 31, 2013 by machineabuse

[xotodazo 9]

I just played on one without a crosshair, it adds lots of difficultness, but I would like them to stay, as some weopans Iron Sights aren't great...

[enforcer1975 1111]

I just played on one without a crosshair, it adds lots of difficultness, but I would like them to stay, as some weopans Iron Sights aren't great...

That's what most weapon owners complain, too...but the gun manufacturers are having problems on how to attach the crosshairs in front of the user.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

the gun manufacturers are having problems on how to attach the crosshairs in front of the user.

I feel bad for the guy that bulk-bought all those crosshairs.

Dreygar made a point, melee combat is a real pain in the ass.

There's no optics on an axe.

IMO Ideally we would have a melee system based on swinging a weapon from side to side/top to bottom, so you don't have to aim for the penny-sized hit area to use a hatchet.

Don't get me wrong, I totally understand the restrictions in adding close combat to a mod based on a gun-only game.

I just hope functional melee mechanics are as high priority for SA as adding more weapons.

[enforcer1975 1111]

It should be easy for them to widen the attack aread of an axe. But bear in mind, you can still fail to hit with every melee weapon...

They need to allow the player to swing while walking instead of having him "stick" to the ground but stanind still and swinging is very safe and i'm sure the chance of hitting something is bigger. Try running around when chopping wood then try to hit your target...

Edited February 1, 2013 by Enforcer

[WarlordBrumos 0]

Sounds good.

[MarcDaKind 37]

Give the server a choice, there is a reason that a really large group of players is playing on regular servers with CH:ON.

Would be a bummer if you took it away from them.

The reason so many players with crosshairs on is because it is impossible to climb ladders, open, doors and get into tents etc. with them off. This needs to get fixed, and the crosshairs needs to get removed!

[Jars (DayZ) 63]

If you can't climb ladders etc ,with out crosshairs , you have to think about why this is .

Most likely the problem you are having is you are playing in thirp derpson view .

There is no need for crosshairs what so ever at all .

Even grenade throwing could be pretty accurate , if its designed intuitively ( aiming with your left hand as you draw back to throw ) , with out the aid of crossderps .

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

I just played on one without a crosshair, it adds lots of difficultness, but I would like them to stay, as some weopans Iron Sights aren't great...

That's part the the challenge of using some weapons.