Don't even make third-person an option for DayZ standalone

[naizarak 41]

For the last time - even with it turned all the way off, head-bob that is, I still get a headache as others have supported. I shouldn't have to "tweak" my fov - wouldn't that give me a advantage over someone not ... tweaking? :D

arma 2 wouldn't cause a headache more so than any other first-person game. just have to tweak it to w/e works for you. hopefully they'll refine the system in the standalone to make first person a more viable option.

[finkone 320]

I like how you are able to tell me Arma II doesn't case headaches... I myself get them, when playing with the FPV for more then 10 minutes period, with head bob off - almost seems to be related to motion sickness, which I get IRL know ever since I've returned from Afghanistan. Other players have posted within this forum, that have lower'd head bob entirely, like myself, and reported headaches. There are registered topics on the BIS Forums that talk about the headaches in relation to this game, and a few others (Half-Life) also which seems to produce this. This is sadly also a sign of possible seizures that could in sue also... from what I've been told and not have actually researched. Several games you play come with pretitle warning screens stating that if any dizziness, headaches or other motion sickness start to take place, they advise to not play their product any more.

So it is a real topic. ;)

[naizarak 41]

I like how you are able to tell me Arma II doesn't case headaches... I myself get them, when playing with the FPV for more then 10 minutes period, with head bob off - almost seems to be related to motion sickness, which I get IRL know ever since I've returned from Afghanistan. Other players have posted within this forum, that have lower'd head bob entirely, like myself, and reported headaches. There are registered topics on the BIS Forums that talk about the headaches in relation to this game, and a few others (Half-Life) also which seems to produce this. This is sadly also a sign of possible seizures that could in sue also... from what I've been told and not have actually researched. Several games you play come with pretitle warning screens stating that if any dizziness, headaches or other motion sickness start to take place, they advise to not play their product any more.

So it is a real topic. ;)

i said arma 2 doesn't cause headaches more so than any other game - it's the same images being displayed on the same monitor and there's no reason for one game to magically cause problems while others don't. and as i said before, it's all about the configuration. i couldn't play arma 2 in first person either for a long time, it just took a bit of tweaking to make it tolerable. so hopefully they'll address these issues in the standalone and make first person playable out of the box

[scoffield77@gmail.com 192]

I've played Arma2 since it released, and I can say the game is better in 1st. It gives the game more immersion and adds a emotional connection with the character, As far as field of view goes, I have no problem with it, Though I do get eye strain from other games.

To be honest, If this game wasn't DayZ based on Arma, I'd accept 3rd with open arms. I love GoW, GRAW, etc. And I hate the BF3, CoD, or any other floating camera 1st person games that has that fake feel to it. Like they paste a gun and some arms on to the screen.

The whole point of 1st person is to add immersion. And the only games that do that now a days Red Orchestra and Arma.

On top of that, Arma movement is some of the best there is, Your body is a real body in the Arma universe, That you the player can experience. The player can turn his head to check the surroundings, Book bags or rocket launchers on your back will get in the way of your view when looking over your shoulder You can look down and see your body and blood on your vest. Unlike other games where your body only exist on other peoples screens.

That being said, 3rd is in Arma, because it adds to the situation awareness for the player while fighting ai, This is needed since it is a military simulator. DayZ is not a military sim, it's a zombie survival game that prides it self on emotional involvement. 3rd person is detaching the player from the that bit of gameplay

As far as FOV goes, I've never had an issue with it, Though I have had my eye's get sore daring CoD and Mine Craft (before changing the FOV) game play. I feel the head swivel and the peripheral dots on the side of the screens makes up for what FOV ya'll find ya'lls self complaining about.

To be honest, I think the FOV argument is a bullshit argument against 1st person. Though I wouldn't mind the ability to change the FOV.

As far as peeping around corners, I think they should add a para-scope that the player can loot... with foggy, dirty, and cracked glass to blur the players vision while looking.

It should also reflect light to make it easy to spot. I do think a that peeping around corners is something real people will do in the apoc, we die easy and trying to find ways to avoid dangerous situations would happen. So I agree, in a game where dying is easy, there should be away to safely look around corners. That being said, it should also be-able to be seen by other players that someone is peeping around, and it should also have limited vision and be blurry.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Bullfrog

[dystopeon 46]

look, the SA will be 1st person only, deal with it.

P.S. 'yard this thread. it's pointless.

[Vincenzo (DayZ) 97]

look, the SA will be 1st person only, deal with it.

P.S. 'yard this thread. it's pointless.

Nobody ever said that mate.

[ImageCtrl 719]

Those to photos I feel help make my point even more. peripheral vision. When I'm looking straight ahead, I should be able to see the ground closer to my area, to my right and my left. The blue'd out areas - almost grant a tunnel vision as compared to 3rd.

How a target could easily be missed because of a FPV restriction. Didn't move, just switched views - might not seem like a lot, but it is. Notice the black dot on the run-way... over 4 feet of view where added by changing view points, and thats on something thats very close.

In a real world situation - you are CLEARLY going to see that guy to your left, CLEARLY. Because this is a game, and we are pretty much looking through a small window (our monitor) to gather information, we are restricted in regards to a FPV...

Press "-" (zoom out). Than you can see the guy left in first person. Press "2x -" and you are stuck in this view.

I´m wrong? Can you test it?

Edited January 6, 2013 by NoCheats

[Wep0n 532]

i said arma 2 doesn't cause headaches more so than any other game - it's the same images being displayed on the same monitor and there's no reason for one game to magically cause problems while others don't. and as i said before, it's all about the configuration. i couldn't play arma 2 in first person either for a long time, it just took a bit of tweaking to make it tolerable. so hopefully they'll address these issues in the standalone and make first person playable out of the box

I agree with most of what you say, but i have to add that even if you might be right about that there are alot of games with the same configuration, (and i must say that it does work for most these games)

most games either do not require a realistic awareness of your surrounding, or have a way to modify the FOV so it looks acceptable.

for most shooters, if the FOV gets too big, everything "zooms out" and is alot more difficult to hit. and in most shooters, you are not looking left and right like a paranoid guy, because most maps are simple, smaller, and ennemies generally come from one direction. the priority to focus on one direction is alot higher in most regular shooters, therfore a smaller FOV might be more acceptable.

now in DayZ the biggest priority is not to shoot everything in front of you (BECAUSE IT IS NOT A SHOOTER!), it is about registering your enviroment, spotting danger, loot... it is basically one big spotting game, and it requires ALOT more eyework than a regular shooter, therefore a small FOV sucks, if you are constantly moving the camera around and focusing on each little detail while you do it just gives most people a headache!

As far as peeping around corners, I think they should add a para-scope that the player can loot... with foggy, dirty, and cracked glass to blur the players vision while looking.

It should also reflect light to make it easy to spot. I do think a that peeping around corners is something real people will do in the apoc, we die easy and trying to find ways to avoid dangerous situations would happen. So I agree, in a game where dying is easy, there should be away to safely look around corners. That being said, it should also be-able to be seen by other players that someone is peeping around, and it should also have limited vision and be blurry.

this feature is quite interesting, and it might be a very good solution to see the surrounding.

as you already said, if you add enough blurryness so that it will only help at short ranges around the corner im fine, i just do not hope that everyone would use this feature to an insane extent where it becomes ridiculously overused.

look, the SA will be 1st person only, deal with it.

P.S. 'yard this thread. it's pointless.

well this thread delivered ALOT of constructive criticism against both, third and first person modes, and it is meant to help the developers see what they should do.

even if it is already the case that SA will be first person, this thread still helps the devs see what we did NOT like about the first person, and what the advanages are about third person, and how they could implement working features in their first person mode, so that they can satisfy most of the people, who obviously play third person for a reason.

yarding this thread would be just contraproductive and would not help anyone. keep the discussion going, many arguments are valid on both sides and deliver great ideas for future improvement.

aslong as the first person looks like shit, and i think many people agree on that one, you are not able to expect from people to just dump third person, in exchange for something even more broken.

i am open to changes (be it a fixed third person, or a good working first person), but the current state of both modes is not acceptable.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Wep0n

[finkone 320]

Even though I know its not true, about FPV being forced....

If I get headaches from the SA being forced first person, I will track down each and everyone of you that supports FPV, and attempt to murder you. :D

[St. Jimmy 1631]

So what's wrong with 1st person in Arma 2 if you compare it to other games? Because IMO it is better than in any other game I've played.

[colekern 1364]

A quick first person fix for those with motion sickness:

Go into game options and turn off camera shake.

[Jars (DayZ) 63]

If you get headaches from playing in first person , you should see a doctor as soon as possible , and ask him if playing computer games for 10 hours straight is right for you .

You just need to apply consistent logic to the FPV vs TPV argument , and if you want to be able to magically look over walls and around corners , is there a good argument for me not to be able to jump 20 feet in the air and leap buildings with a single bound ? Perhaps even be able to sprint faster than a speeding car , that would make the game more fun for me too , but it's absurdly unrealistic .

There is nothing wrong with the FPV at all , it just feels that way to you because you have used TPV so much for its obvious advantages and exploits .

[WiFiN 55]

So what's wrong with 1st person in Arma 2 if you compare it to other games? Because IMO it is better than in any other game I've played.

it's not worse. May modern games have FPV - all competitive ones especially. Left 4 Dead, Planetside2, Counter Strike:GO, Crysis, Battlefield (yeah), and don't fucking try to bend on the "DayZ is not FPS" - it is completely OFF-subject. No one's complaining about lack of peripheral vision in those games, no matter it wouldn't be less usefull there. But no one will tolerate TPV exploits in those games, so why the hell they are complaining here?

the problem with Arma 2 FPV is that FOV and bobbing settings should be more accessible as the majority is too lazy to search and would rather complain. Also you can get stuck in the doorways and other narrow places and people feel more cofortable when they can see what jams them.

So instead of yelling to keep TPV people should push on fixing FPV as it would actually fix everything.

P.S. And yeah, apart from things listed above FPV in Arma2 is actually -better- as it allows you to see your whole body and look around independently from the direction you're moving.

Edited January 6, 2013 by WiFiN

[Wep0n 532]

If you get headaches from playing in first person , you should see a doctor as soon as possible , and ask him if playing computer games for 10 hours straight is right for you .

You just need to apply consistent logic to the FPV vs TPV argument , and if you want to be able to magically look over walls and around corners , is there a good argument for me not to be able to jump 20 feet in the air and leap buildings with a single bound ? Perhaps even be able to sprint faster than a speeding car , that would make the game more fun for me too , but it's absurdly unrealistic .

There is nothing wrong with the FPV at all , it just feels that way to you because you have used TPV so much for its obvious advantages and exploits .

well obviously i forgot to mention that not everyone is as paranoid as me, and tries to keep an eye out for THINGS in the surrounding which might be relevant for survival.

i often encounter survivors who dont care what is aside of them, and they dont even use numpad to look around. i often killed survivors which were not aware of their surrounding.

not by cleverly sneaking around them, but by just simply standing aside of them, where a normal human could CLEARLY see me.

please take a look at the screenshot from FinKone. now look at the damn soldier right next to the player. a sane human should NOTICE THAT!

solution? -> make it possible to customly increase the FOV in first person, so that it becomes more realistic for those who do not want to play with the standard settings.

also think about people having a wider screen than others. those people should feel free to adjust the settings for their preference. there is no reason to lock something down, just because a certain faction of dayZ players prefers these settings.

of course TPV is freakin broken, no one needs to tell me that. but people need to accept that FPV in a game such as DAYZ has to follow different standards, because it is, as i already mentioned, totally different in terms of utility in comparison to normal shooters.

of course if you play the game just like any first person shooter, you wont have any problems... at all... but i for my part use the camera and numpad alot more often than in any other game. and getting tired after doing so for several hours is totally human.

edit: you cannot expect from the consumer of the standalone to manipulate the config files. making a good options menu is part of the game, and should not be exclusive to those who look it up on the internet and change it in their files folder.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Wep0n

[Heiduk 265]

I wonder how much different the history of DayZ would have been if the first YouTube streamers had used first person like all of the ShackTac ARMA videos instead of third person.

please take a look at the screenshot from FinKone. now look at the damn soldier right next to the player. a sane human should NOTICE THAT!

solution?

The soldier would also come into view if the player took one step back. I haven't seen many people standing still in DayZ so I have trouble seeing how the very small increase in peripheral vision provided by third person aids significantly in spotting.

Both first and third person are limited and give unrealistic views of the world. The question should be which view best supports the design goals of the game.

[ImageCtrl 719]

please take a look at the screenshot from FinKone. now look at the damn soldier right next to the player. a sane human should NOTICE THAT!

solution? -> make it possible to customly increase the FOV in first person, so that it becomes more realistic for those who do not want to play with the standard settings.

Press "-" (zoom out). Than you can see "the damn soldier right next to the player". You can "NOTICE" him. Press "2x -" and you are stuck in this view.

customly increase the FOV also wanted.

Edited January 6, 2013 by NoCheats

[radivmoe 47]

to anyone having FOV problems, double tap numpad - key your increase FOV.

Edited January 8, 2013 by radivmoe

[exdeath 0]

Ah, ok. you are right, no beating dead horses here. Why not? If you rent a server you should have as many options as possible.

So its possible to have 3rd person only thread?

[radivmoe 47]

1st person is the view through the eyes of the player

2nd would be the eyes of the opponent

3rd is behind the player

4th would i assume be behind the opponent

then what is 5th person!?

Dun dun DUUUH!

[radivmoe 47]

wow, you don't even understand 'assumption'. I would explain this to you, but I wont waste the keystrokes. you will always be an asshole & you will never understand why.

likewise to you too!

keep going, you are definately proving your point by insulting people, good job!

[Michaelvoodoo25 3120]

1st person view is banned in SA, It should be third person only, Because I said so

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

LoL, voodoo, U R teh N00bz.

I don't even look at the screen when I play.

[ImageCtrl 719]

sure sneaky players should be rewarded, but having such a small FOV just cripples everyone! if someone comes from left IRL, i see that guy, whitout having to shake my head in all directions every second. please look at this picture

as you can clearly see, the full picture does not only look alot better, but you also have a realistic overview of the whole area. you do not feel like a half blind person anymore, and the headache is gone.

a sneaky person can still surprise you realistically, and you do not have to break your neck every second just to make sure there is no one right aside of you.

a small FOV just feels like shit, and i feel like a drunk guy who does not register his surroundings at all.

and all you people telling me that i can look around in the game, well thank you alot for that obvious statement, but i do not want to rely on something, which shouldnt even be necessary!

if i look around, i want to see what is behind me, that is why i use numpad, and it should not be a cheap function just to be able to see the basic things right aside of you.

DayZ is alot about realism, and the FOV is part of it. if you want to convince people to switch to first person, you must fix it first so that it becomes enjoyable.

all i ask is for a simple FOV bar to adjust it, whitout having to look it up in the files and modify it.

This example... omg

You take a game where the max Fov is 90 in the settings to prove your point? BF 3 must fix it first so that it becomes enjoyable? lol

Shure i love sliders also. But I don´t know one game where I do it not my self or where I can slide up to 200. You can expand ingame the fov AND move your head.

So I don´t realy see this as argument. Fix it yourself and hope that you get with dayz SA the first game with a slider up to 200.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkTQV1-1PIo

[Michaelvoodoo25 3120]

LoL, voodoo, U R teh N00bz.

I don't even look at the screen when I play.

Yeah! I use my feet to play, foot controllers should be in teh SA too!

[‮spacecaps 101]

Yeah, some of us get motion sickness with first person after 30 minutes of playing. We like our third person, thanks.

Who the fuck cares about casual majority in a hardcore survival game? You all are the reason why we can't have nice things.

Edited January 7, 2013 by KizUrazgubi