Don't even make third-person an option for DayZ standalone

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

Motion sickness from a game? I can't understand how it's even possible to get that.

I would provide you some links, but I'm not on the computer.

Look up "vestibulo-ocular reflex".

Dissonance between the motion your eye sees and what your body feels causes nausea.

It's the same as sea-sickness and car-sickness.

I don't suffer from it myself, but according to numerous accounts from people who DO, turning "Head-bob" off doesn't prevent it.

So people like you, who clearly don't know what they're talking about, should consider refraining from spouting the same ignorant crap every day.

[com1 10]

he's right but on the other side, go prone in 1st person and see nothin but an enemy at a certain distance is able to see you!

[kaiga12 22]

I'm all for cutting down on the number of all-seeing, roof dwelling, lone wolf, ghillie-wearing AS50 snipers. I wanna be able to beat one of these guys by quietly climbing the stairs or ladder behind him and not die cause he's got the top of the ladder or stairwell in perfect view while stil looking forward a mile and 150ft. down the side of the building without showing his face. I think bandits who adopt this tactic should be punished cause in reality what they're essentially doing is stranding themselves up there in exchange for a good shot. It's supposed to be a serious risk for a sniper to climb to a roof not a goddamn win/win situation.

[Fearless96 5]

If people use it to there advantage why dont you? haha

[thefirecrack3r 6]

What if peeking animations were added to players using third-person (ONLY IN 3rd PERSON, people in first would have the animations disabled) to see over walls or around corners? The player's avatar would, without player control, occasionally poke his head out of cover, as an exchange for seeing over the wall. This would force players to go into first person in fire fights or risk their character putting their delicate little heads into the line of fire without them asking for it to happen. Or, having one of those (sorry I don't know the proper term) location sensitive third-person views where if a player is up against the wall, the camera zooms in on the back of his head so he cant see over it, also a semi locked in place camera would be nice, to prevent players from looking behind them. This allows people to have the more realistic peripheral senses that 3rd person simulates while preventing widespread exploitation of its mechanics. Of course its valuable to note, everyone can use third-person. Tired of getting killed by someone using it? Then do what they do. You have access to it just as they do. Its all fair. When you get sniped from a building, just know it could have just as easily been you up there peeking over the edge without being seen.

[kaiga12 22]

I posted this on the other gigantic "First Vs Third" thread also but I figure the idea might be relevant.

All of this talk about "invisible periscopes" gave me an idea. What if it were possible to find an item in game called "Mirror on a stick" or make one craftable by combining a steel bolt and a small mirror. Arma 3 has boasted all about it's ability to effectively do picture in picture on things like the submarine viewscreens and rear view mirrors on cars. If you want the advantage of third person and possibly even a bigger one, you'll have to loot or make it and use it at the appropriate time since you won't be able to hold it and shoot at the same time. Also think of how your heart would skip a beat when you actually catch a glimpse of someone in that mirror unexpectedly.

[dystopeon 46]

i would say graveyard this, but it is the number one problem with the game. REMOVE 3DP = BETTER GAME FOR ALL.

[[Gen]Adzic 241]

IRL people can only see from 1st person (yes I am aware it's only a game), 3rd person should not be enabled at all imo, but the ability to look around, aka move your head.. whilst in 1st person (to a certain degree) while maintaining your current direction should definitely stay. That's just one of the things that makes this game stand out from others.

All in all.. I'm all for making the game more realistic.

[plrsniper 87]

I would provide you some links, but I'm not on the computer.

Look up "vestibulo-ocular reflex".

Dissonance between the motion your eye sees and what your body feels causes nausea.

It's the same as sea-sickness and car-sickness.

I don't suffer from it myself, but according to numerous accounts from people who DO, turning "Head-bob" off doesn't prevent it.

So people like you, who clearly don't know what they're talking about, should consider refraining from spouting the same ignorant crap every day.

Now i read up on the condition and it's called Simulation Sickness, it seems it's more common than i thought. I have only met one person myself that experienced motion sickness from a game. (the first Delta Force game)

I understand how it's possible to get motion sickness from a game and how distancing yourself from your character in 3rd person can help mitigate the cause and effect of simulator sickness.

With that now made clear, i still don't agree with 3rd person view in ArmA / DayZ. This game is a simulator, it is meant to immerse the gamer in the virtual world and give him as many realistic restrictions and options as possible while keeping it at a game level (read, fun for all) and in my opinion, 3rd person goes directly against that.

I understand it might be impossible to make it so people suffering from simulator sickness doesn't get affected in first person and it's the sad reality we live in. If you are born with a disability then that's really sad for you but that doesn't automatically mean everybody has to cater to your handicap.

For instance, if you are born with partial blindness does that mean you should be given wallhacks or ESP to be able to clearly distinguish players from the environment so you can play the game? Does that mean everybody should be given wallhacks and ESP to level the playing field? Does that make the game fun anymore? Why do we have ghillie suits in DayZ when there are thousands upon thousands of players who suffer from varying degrees of color blindness? Me included!

Yes, that's right... I have slight color blindness but i don't bitch and moan about not being able to see different shades of color in a bush. I just deal with it, i have learned to memorize what such a bush should look like normally and if it doesn't look like normal (in semi greyscale like color tones) then i take another good look at that bush.

If anything, it has made me a better gamer in my ability to see other players as i have focused on my weakness and trained to overcome it.

And before you go "bwah bwah bwah, motion sickness is not the same thing!" i can tell you that as a kid i suffered from motion sickness when riding in cars too. I puked my guts out all over the console when i was riding with my grandfather who worked as a postman. I begged him to stop the car but he didn't understand why until i presented my breakfast over his gearlever.

That too i have learned to overcome to some degree but whenever i ride i a car i have to be able to look out a forward facing window at all times or i get motion sickness.

That doesn't meant i bitch about not sitting in the front seat, i only ask kindly for inhabitants in front of me to leave a gap where i can look out the window in case i get sick.

I have never gotten motion sick from playing games, i have gotten nasty headaches from them though. I simply step away from the game if that happens. I don't expect the developers to solve my problems by adding a handicap mode to their game, i simply overcome the obstacles or refrain from playing if it gets too much.

...

With all that said, the #1 reason 3rd person is on in DayZ is so people can use it to peek around / over walls so they have perfect cover while looking at others running about and not being able to see you. Ask any server admin and your answer will not be likely to be Simulation / Motion sickness related.

DayZ should be forced into first person by default and if the playerbase really needs 3rd person then they should mod DayZ to allow for 3rd person on unofficial private servers. If it's such a big deal then those servers will have long waiting queues to get into. There are still a great deal of players who will stay with the original mod / game though because they WILL learn to play without 3rd person. And get better at the game instead of relying on a hackish feature that wasn't meant to be used like it is.

Another option that i can sort of agree with is, if your character is anywhere near a wall his camera moves in right at his body and doesn't provide any vision asides from the character and straight forwards beyond the characters viewpoint. In other words, you better switch to first person view if you wanna be in a bush or sit around a corner watching people.

[dystopeon 46]

I beat mines with a Meat Cleaver.

No, they will not remove third person view. While there is some unfair disadvantages with third person, it allows you to get a clearer vision (180), and makes you connect with the character so you actually feel as if you see your legs, arms, etc like you normally would in real life. Due to 90 degree limitations, however, you can't see much of your body unless you take the time to look down. In some ways, it's more realistic to have third person than first.

yup because features available for a game-mod ALWAYS carry over to finished product with the playstyle dictated by beta-testers and forum junkies (*rolls eyes*).

I think they'll actually remove or severely limit 3DP, just as they reintroduced bandit skins (against the majority whiners) If they don't limit or remove 3DP, everything Dean said about limiting accessibilty was bunk. Customers' wanting a challenge will move on to the next thing. Seriously I can't play anything bar DayZ & racing sims (I can play competitively with only mouse and keyboard, since I'm ambidextrous & hate setting up my wheel). Nothing else offers any challenge for me except simulators, that's why 3DP sucks. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone here, there are many highly skilled players who form the long term OFP/ARMA fanbase waaay before dayz.

[dystopeon 46]

Easy, I sit back and read silly comments like this every week, take this out, put that in, yet half of you havent played the game/Mod, and those who have played have played for a few hours. Some of you are all waiting for the SA and havent got a clue what you are on about. Then theres the other few who are here from Warzzzzzzz hiding out because your beloved game sucks cock. Let's not forget those who died in game because of a feature and then come on here to moan like schoolgirls (Which is what OP sounds like)

Play for a while longer and you'll see it dosen't really matter nor does it offer any real advantage a experienced player can not play around (I consider it a challenge to play people, them in 3DP and me 1st person view)

There was a reason for 3rdPV in the game, do some research and find it (I cant remember rockets comments but it was, Hint, peripheral senses) You have to remember this is a game, let some elements be used wether they are "REAL" or not.

Bottom of story, Leave it in, let players choose. Simples!

you sound like you played dayz (& arma in general) only since 1.7.0. fail.

[dystopeon 46]

I think Rocket chose to leave it in because it allows you have an almost 180 degree FOV similar to that in real life. Can't remember where he said it though think it was on reddit a while back. Also I find it humorous how people make such a big deal of it being an advantage when it isn't, sure it allows people to see over walls and around corners without exposing themselves but everyone has the same ability allowing everyone to use it. The simple fact is that if you don't like it play first person only or go onto a server with first person only. It seems that all that this thread is is people continuously whinging that it should be in or it shouldn't be in. The way they have it now caters to eveyone. Don't like 3rd person? Go to a first person server. Like 3rd person? Stay on the normal servers and for the love of god. Stop bitching

one, he didn't choose shit, it's just a part of a game he modded (arma) intended primarily for co-op (redundant for competition).

two, he'll prolly remove the feature that generates the most tears guys... and that'll be 3DP :) he'll drown in those tears baby!

[dystopeon 46]

the way I see it, the real money is in keeping the community 'divided and conquered'. 3DP stays for the arma mod & 1st person only for the SA. That way they keep both yo monies, 3DP pansies keep their comfort stew (and keep buying ARMA2) and the hardcore douchebags get their cake with the SA. ARMA 3 stays seperate (affording a much later/better release). Its a profit deal! (yeah I hate everybody :)) win.

Edited December 31, 2012 by dystopeon

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

3DP pansies keep their comfort stew (and keep buying ARMA2) and the hardcore douchebags get their cake with the SA. ARMA 3 stays seperate (affording a much later/better release). Its a profit deal! (yeah I hate everybody :)) win.

I really don't think catering the entire standalone game to a minority of the community would be designated "good business sense".

I think you need to start getting more Omega3 in your diet.

If the "pansies" are the pro-3dp group, why are you the one crying about it?

[com1 10]

you all dont get it!

1st person is better in general BUT go prone in 1st person on tall grass and see nothin while an enemy at a certain distance is able to see you (grass disappears at a certain distance). So snipers are in advantage.

Only if there is a resolution to this issue then 1st person would be the best choice for everyone (althought helicopter in 1st person is quite hard).

[plrsniper 87]

you all dont get it!

1st person is better in general BUT go prone in 1st person on tall grass and see nothin while an enemy at a certain distance is able to see you (grass disappears at a certain distance). So snipers are in advantage.

Only if there is a resolution to this issue then 1st person would be the best choice for everyone (althought helicopter in 1st person is quite hard).

Look up and press ALT? Just like in the real world...

And it's not tall grass you are prone in, as such you won't be hidden at distance. You can try it in real life for yourself. Have someone lie flat so all they see is grass in front of them. Then go 100-300 meters away and look at that person from afar. You will see him really easily and he will still have a bunch of grass in his face.

[dystopeon 46]

I really don't think catering the entire standalone game to a minority of the community would be designated "good business sense".

I think you need to start getting more Omega3 in your diet.

If the "pansies" are the pro-3dp group, why are you the one crying about it?

awww, are you a pansy? sorry....did you actually read my last post? I don't really care which one uses 3DP or 1stP, it doesn't matter - it just makes good buisness sense to split the obvious 50/50 (not minority) playstyle groups into two games = profit. Do you understand profit deal? and really look at the amount of people buying arma 2, do you really think BI want to slow down arma 2 sales? Also, everybody currently playing will buy the SA regardless and if they hate it, will go back to arma2 dayz & new purchases will probably buy both anyway & then stick with one. It's a PROFIT DEAL! you need to stop shoving haggis/gamon/death down your gullet and get some vitamins.

Edited January 1, 2013 by dystopeon

[tommes 331]

The difficulty settings system should be further enhanced so there are hardcore servers strictly without 3rd person where certain high value loot will spawn exclusively. And maybe characters will have to stay within their difficulty.

[Michaelvoodoo25 3120]

you sound like you played dayz (& arma in general) only since 1.7.0. fail.

Sorry but being a ex soldier you learn to use your sense quite well, It allows you to have a better perception of your surroundings, I think 3DV offers this as a compensation to some degree, I do believe there should be limits however like limiting view when in certain positions so as to not offer advantage. There are ways to play FPV like server side settings, Why limit the appeal of a game by limiting it? Do you think players play DayZ because of it's FPV?

I think my main reasons however are the ability to look around you and enjoy the enviroment, which is spectacular on some map's, the FOV in first person needs fixing as standard in order for it to feel like first person view, and the fact I think FPS games are shoite, but hey that is my opinion.

I don't think the SA will come with FPV only considering the engine will allow 3DV none the less, nor have I seen a Bohemia game (Military sim type) come without it. Even TOH has 3rd person view as an option. I think it is safe to say it will be in the SA wether some like it or not, you'll probably have the choice to go play 1st person view servers if you don't like it.

[Lady Kyrah 1109]

And why should we get another game that dissolve it's uniqueness by trying to please the lowest common denominator. Sure developpers want money, but i'm sure dean could work for EA if he wanted.

Video game "still" is an artistic medium where the developpers can express their own vision of the game, regardless or what the fanbase "want".

I suppose i can say this again, but a suggestion forum doesn't make the development process a democracy.

If they want to make something truly unique with DayZ, they cannot satisfy just everyone, or they will be left with a pretty bland looking game.

I sincerely believe that familiarity isn't the only reason Dean picked arma as the base for DayZ, he most likely wanted the realistic shooting mechanic that you can only really find in Arma. Which, i believe will most likely lead us to an SA version without 3rd person and without aiming reticles.

Edited January 1, 2013 by Lady Kyrah

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

@ dystopeon, I understand your mental capacity is lacking, but couldn't you try harder to offend me than repeating what I said to you?

And haggis? Really? Your cultural bigotry speaks volumes, and none of it is beneficial to your standing in my eyes.

While it seems you take pride in making yourself look like an ignorant idiot, I can honestly say, I expected better.

I know I shouldn't get my hopes up.

Maybe you should stuff down some haggis from time to time. It's obviously better for your brain than whatever you've been eating.

-

Why do people insist on trying to define Rocket's vision by their own standards?

Familiarity with the engine and ArmA's mod support are good enough reasons for the decision to base DayZ on it.

It doesn't mean that, having played ArmA, you have any foreknowledge regarding the "vision".

Any presumptions I make regarding DayZ are based on observation. To me it doesn't look like DayZ should be regarded as an FPS.

[veal12 6]

I agree with this thread. Maybe if the dev's working on the standalone would remove the ability of 3rd person, it would give more players the ability to explore some of the settings and tune it up to their liking. It is fully possible to tone down and even remove head bobbing and motion blur which are the causes for the motion sickness some people get when using 1st person. I also believe 3rd person is another way out for people who won't play legit and realistically. It's a mod for a military simulator! If they didn't want it to be played realistically they probably wouldn't have chosen Arma to mod!

Long story short: Remove 3rd person and keep the settings to tune the game!

[exdeath 0]

So, here, some FPS players are saying how having third person option is some bad idea.

Then, some third person players are here saying how having it is a good idea, because FPS is flawed or has some problems.....

So here is some fix:

The game will have FPS view only servers.

So make something like this.

You can only play in FPS view in FPS servers.

You CAN ONLY play in third person view in 3rd person view server.

If there are some problems with game fps view or fps view in general, (so, the reason that make the game needs 3rd person view according to many here)., the only logical choice, is to make 3rd person view servers only allow 3rd person view, having some server with third person view and FPS one would make no sense.

Edited January 1, 2013 by exdeath

[ttghusky@live.com.au 10]

Stop complaining, you can just as easily hit enter on the numpad too.

[Heiduk 265]

Just in-case some people have forgotten, not all first person games are first person shooters.

Your could remove all of the guns from DayZ and it would still be a better game with first person only. Being forced to make that one little decision: "Do I peak or not?" adds a level of suspense and challenge that is completely missing from third person.