New Dev Blog Report: November 2012

[steve t 32]

I am super happy that it will be released through Steam!!!

[Axon0p62 11]

I don't think you should be able to run at the cost of blood, blood is not a health bar so it shouldn't function as one. If you exhaust your body past a certain point you should pass out and possibly die depending on the condition of your body. Obviously this would have to be worked out correctly and a lot of thought would have to go into it.

As far as a skill system, it can't work like any other game. It would have to be a passive skill system that runs in the background. Noo trees, no skill points, no actively picking what you want to be. You would get better at something depending on how you play, that would decide your "class". Doing this won't break immersion and it would add more value to your character aside from what's in your backpack.

For an example, if you're the type of character that is always bandaging yourself/teammates, giving blood, and other medical assistance, you would become better at it. For an example you would be able to give medical attention quicker than others, you can give blood with minimal loss of blood from the blood bag, and/or you can easily stop bleeding with a bandage (others who aren't "skilled" in the medical aspect may need more than one bandage for bleeding or maybe it takes a few seconds to stop a bleed after they apply a bandage, take longer to give any medical attention, not be able to transfuse the entire bag of blood). This still allows everyone to do every action in the game, just those that chose to pursue a certain survival aspect will be better at that, sort of their "specialty". Maybe make a maximum amount of things you can "master"?

This will make dying more devastating as your losing more than a weapon now, you're losing time you put in to get your character better. You are also more valuable in a group setting which will passively encourage team play whilst leaving PvP untouched.

Thanks for your POV, but i did not agree with you.

Blood is not a healthbar? Then tell me please what it is? As far as i know represents the Bloodicon your general constitution, cause it would not be realistic to nearly bleed out, and still keep on running. When the bloodicon really displays Blood, than only like 2 to 3 liters in the 7 to 9 entire liters.

Second thing on that point is that when your nurishment run out you loose blood to, so i hold on to that cause i felt like it would only take gamemechanics that are allready implanted.

I dont agree with your opinion about skills, sure there are some things you can learn by loot and trial but curing a shoot, or getting an engine to running needs knowlege you cant learn on the field. Imagine you are in the apocalypse going to someone and telling him. "Hey buddy, what to be my medical subject? But be aware i never did something with medicin bevor!" I think not!

Lets think your opinion trougth, what would that mean ingame? People who wanna be doctors running around in citys, letting them hit from zombies to get better in bandaging. One thing more i bet i can give the audience a bloodbag, and about 95% will not be able to help someone with that, imagine onlone pining the needle into the rigth vein the rigth point.

have a nice day.

Edited December 4, 2012 by Axon0p62

[ukko (DayZ) 5]

Any estimate of the price? (for fools who bought that shitty arma 2 to play this mod)

Too bad they missed christmas steam sale. Was quite expected... you dont turn this pre-alpa state thing to standalone product in couple of months. Just look how terrible latest version is. People would go apeshit for paying money for that mess. xD

[sniperdoc 251]

What about reducing the complexity and just keeping the game fun as is. Adding too much complexity and realism isn't exactly where it's at either....

What about character classes... Civilian, Soldier, Medic, Mechanic, Farmer? Each class has a higher chance of finding specific drops in their respective building types (Residential, Military, Hospital, Industrial, Farm)? Each class has pros and cons regarding weapons and what types they might be able to use. I wouldn't expect a civilian to be able to figure out an M249 or how to properly shoot an M24, yet I also don't expect a Soldier to know how to fix a vehicle or administer an Epi pen or properly dose antibiotics.

I could see hunger/health/fatigue being made a bit more realistic, but I wouldn't spend time making it so complex that it ruins the fun. I would love to only be required to have 3 square meals a day vs 45 cans of food or 17 steaks in 3 hours. Liquids, sure, maybe that one's a bit more accurate. I wouldn't mind seeing "rest" as being something included. I.e. if you're infected actually taking antibiotics and having a "sleep" option, however, implementing that would be tricky as no one would want to sit there for 8 hours just watching their character sleep. Maybe just sleep for 5 mins... enough to get something to munch on, a bathroom break, or getting something to drink from the kitchen while you wait.

[Tenoch 0]

Any estimate of the price? (for fools who bought that shitty arma 2 to play this mod)

Too bad they missed christmas steam sale. Was quite expected... you dont turn this pre-alpa state thing to standalone product in couple of months. Just look how terrible latest version is. People would go apeshit for paying money for that mess. xD

it'll be cheap to buy as it'll be in alpha status for a while , then the price will go up as the game gets more polished , aka what Minecraft did

[monkza 15]

lets just hope this game comes out tomorrow on steam... i prefer to play a beta version than wait 4ever.. since its december i have time to play with friends. my credit card is ready to use and go own in cherno some bambies

[Axon0p62 11]

What about reducing the complexity and just keeping the game fun as is. Adding too much complexity and realism isn't exactly where it's at either....

What about character classes... Civilian, Soldier, Medic, Mechanic, Farmer? Each class has a higher chance of finding specific drops in their respective building types (Residential, Military, Hospital, Industrial, Farm)? Each class has pros and cons regarding weapons and what types they might be able to use. I wouldn't expect a civilian to be able to figure out an M249 or how to properly shoot an M24, yet I also don't expect a Soldier to know how to fix a vehicle or administer an Epi pen or properly dose antibiotics.

I could see hunger/health/fatigue being made a bit more realistic, but I wouldn't spend time making it so complex that it ruins the fun. I would love to only be required to have 3 square meals a day vs 45 cans of food or 17 steaks in 3 hours. Liquids, sure, maybe that one's a bit more accurate. I wouldn't mind seeing "rest" as being something included. I.e. if you're infected actually taking antibiotics and having a "sleep" option, however, implementing that would be tricky as no one would want to sit there for 8 hours just watching their character sleep. Maybe just sleep for 5 mins... enough to get something to munch on, a bathroom break, or getting something to drink from the kitchen while you wait.

It is quiet a DM rigth now, would love to see it more as it meant to be, a zombie apocalypse where players should be interacting with each other to overcome the real threat the Zombies. Hell they destroyed the entire zivilisation in the story, no problem when you can outran them, but you should get tired, while they dont. I think the zombieengien itself is quiet amaing, if you get unlucky a single Z can cost your life. Wait for them to spwan everywhere, not only in citys and champing snipers on mountainhills are history.

Dont get me wrong, i really like the idea of roaming Bandits, cause they are one of the things that are making that game so tense. Look what stands on the Mainpage: Step one: gear up, step two: kill Zombies and Bandits, Step three: survive. So final goal for the game is not killing but survival, what means that players must be entertaint otherwise and make beliefe that meating up with other will help him further than only killing them on sigth.

An old saying speeks: Share when you have and you will get when you need. (Teile in der Zeit dann hast du in der Not.)

I think there was the suggestion that there is an other mod, that is more based on killing each other and less on surviving. Or got to WarZ with there DM friedly engine.

I dont care how hard DayZ will going to be at the end, what really matters is the authencity, makes you slide further and further into the Horror of the Zombie Apocalypse.

Cant agree with you cause your argumentation points into the direction, more DM less survival, i love the fact that you got to eat, you wont die that fast but when it would not be that way that it is, banditsnipers could stay forever on there post and it would degenerate more and more to an new Arma with better Healthsystem.

DayZ carrys the hope within it to get the game for player who whant to generate more than flat funbased gameeperience.

But thanks for keeping the topic alive. :)

P.S.: I love steam. Lost a lot of games while my harddrive was killed. Just downloaded steam, and was ready to download all games agian, eaven those where the CD/DvD are long time dead.

Edited December 4, 2012 by Axon0p62

[Lights Out 141]

Thanks for your POV, but i did not agree with you.

Blood is not a healthbar? Then tell me please what it is? As far as i know represents the Bloodicon your general constitution, cause it would not be realistic to nearly bleed out, and still keep on running. When the bloodicon really displays Blood, than only like 2 to 3 liters in the 7 to 9 entire liters.

Second thing on that point is that when your nurishment run out you loose blood to, so i hold on to that cause i felt like it would only take gamemechanics that are allready implanted.

I dont agree with your opinion about skills, sure there are some things you can learn by loot and trial but curing a shoot, or getting an engine to running needs knowlege you cant learn on the field. Imagine you are in the apocalypse going to someone and telling him. "Hey buddy, what to be my medical subject? But be aware i never did something with medicin bevor!" I think not!

Lets think your opinion trougth, what would that mean ingame? People who wanna be doctors running around in citys, letting them hit from zombies to get better in bandaging. One thing more i bet i can give the audience a bloodbag, and about 95% will not be able to help someone with that, imagine onlone pining the needle into the rigth vein the rigth point.

have a nice day.

My point when saying your blood is not a health bar, is that it doesn't work like traditional health bar that you see in many games. It's actually keeping track or your blood count so my point is that, let's say, getting punched in the face shouldn't make you lose blood. If you are under nourished and or exhausted, you don't lose blood instantly but instead the rate at which your blood regenerates diminishes. As far as when you are low on blood, well that is why you pass out. Do you even play Day-Z?

As far as classes, well if we take your view on this, no one in the game would be able to do anything. It wouldn't be a fun game at all. There needs to be a point where a game still needs to be a game. So you suggest we not be able to carry out 75% of actions within game because it's something that can't be learned on the field? I think not! You should be able to carry out every action in the game, however one should be able to do certain things better than others. The reasoning behind it? It differentiates characters and puts more worth within the character. The explanation of why it would make sense? Many people did things before the apocalypse, this would act as their pre-apocalypse profession. You may say there's other ways of implementing, well keep reading.

Alternate implementations (that WONT work).

-You could randomize professions as spawns to account for professions before the apocalypse? NOPE, people will kill themselves and respawn until they get what they want.

-You could pick your pre-apocalypse profession at spawn. NOPE, you aren't working for anything. After death you can get those attributes back immediately so it doesn't add to the devastation of permadeath.

So is my idea thought out? Well yes it is, However, you choose to argue point based on realism without accounting to how it works and fits within a game, simulator or not. Let the player play how they want. Let their decision and actions shape their character. "This is your story".

Have a good day indeed!

Edited December 5, 2012 by Lights Out

[sniperdoc 251]

My recommendation didn't say anything about deathmatch...? I also never said they wouldn't have the capability to do anything. You need to watch your absolutes and borderline condescending tone... Having classes actually makes being a certain class viable in this situation and makes it a benefit and a downfall.

Lets say you play a farmer, you can find hatchets, food items, matches, jerry cans and other items that spawn in the barns much easier than a Military guy would be. But a soldier would have a harder time finding those items (maybe because they don't know where to look properly). So a soldier and farmer could team up and it could be an interesting dynamic. Maybe with a farmer around farm animals have a higher rate of spawning near them... thereby making food more plentiful. However, the farmer can't shoot but a simple Lee Enfield or use maybe use a Makarov, pretty much making him vulnerable... this is where the soldier comes in. He can use all weapons, but doesn't have to skill to find a lot of things, except maybe at a supermarket which is a general area that everyone is allowed to use or has the ease of using.

Following? This doesn't hardly it a death match, it actually forces team play. Now, people can still be loners, they'll just have a harder time doing it depending on the class they're playing. Play a lone solder, you might be able to use all the weapons, but forget healing yourself (save a bandage), or finding plentiful food in a farm. Maybe you're locked down to only finding food at a supermarket, this puts the soldier in a predicament. Expose yourself and your better armaments by entering the store, or be a bandit and rob/kill someone that just left the store carrying the goodies you needed?

Personally, I think it adds an extra dynamic with Pros/Cons to the situation. 1 soldier allied with many non-combatants? Pretty hard to protect, but he'll eat and live.

I also never said that classes were locked down to performing certain actions... I said they'd have a more difficult time finding or using things if they're not related to their class This doesn't mean a soldier would never find a cow or a goat... I'm saying that the chance for him to see or find a goat would be much lower without a farmer around. Or if a farmer tried using a M249 he'd have a hell of a time hitting anything or using a smoke grenade properly, or have difficulty figuring out how to use and take care of a set of NVG's.

As far as the food/health/drink meters... I still think my above statement holds true. Make it too realistic and it loses its viability as fun. Make it too "cartoony/gamey" and it also loses its appeal. There's a fine line.

"Is my idea thought out? Yes it is!" Really? Who talks to themselves on a forum...? Lawl

Edited December 4, 2012 by sniperdoc

[Lights Out 141]

My recommendation didn't say anything about deathmatch...? I also never said they wouldn't have the capability to do anything. You need to watch your absolutes and borderline condescending tone... Having classes actually makes being a certain class viable in this situation and makes it a benefit and a downfall.

Lets say you play a farmer, you can find hatchets, food items, matches, jerry cans and other items that spawn in the barns much easier than a Military guy would be. But a soldier would have a harder time finding those items (maybe because they don't know where to look properly). So a soldier and farmer could team up and it could be an interesting dynamic. Maybe with a farmer around farm animals have a higher rate of spawning near them... thereby making food more plentiful. However, the farmer can't shoot but a simple Lee Enfield or use maybe use a Makarov, pretty much making him vulnerable... this is where the soldier comes in. He can use all weapons, but doesn't have to skill to find a lot of things, except maybe at a supermarket which is a general area that everyone is allowed to use or has the ease of using.

Following? This doesn't hardly it a death match, it actually forces team play. Now, people can still be loners, they'll just have a harder time doing it depending on the class they're playing. Play a lone solder, you might be able to use all the weapons, but forget healing yourself (save a bandage), or finding plentiful food in a farm. Maybe you're locked down to only finding food at a supermarket, this puts the soldier in a predicament. Expose yourself and your better armaments by entering the store, or be a bandit and rob/kill someone that just left the store carrying the goodies you needed?

Personally, I think it adds an extra dynamic with Pros/Cons to the situation. 1 soldier allied with many non-combatants? Pretty hard to protect, but he'll eat and live.

I also never said that classes were locked down to performing certain actions... I said they'd have a more difficult time finding or using things if they're not related to their class This doesn't mean a soldier would never find a cow or a goat... I'm saying that the chance for him to see or find a goat would be much lower without a farmer around. Or if a farmer tried using a M249 he'd have a hell of a time hitting anything or using a smoke grenade properly, or have difficulty figuring out how to use and take care of a set of NVG's.

As far as the food/health/drink meters... I still think my above statement holds true. Make it too realistic and it loses its viability as fun. Make it too "cartoony/gamey" and it also loses its appeal. There's a fine line.

"Is my idea thought out? Yes it is!" Really? Who talks to themselves on a forum...? Lawl

So you're saying loots should spawn differently for different classes? If so, no. Spawns should be the same, regardless of who you are, you don't find stuff more easily. Do you think all farmers have an unwritten law of where to put things? lol

And soldiers being able to shoot better? No PVP advantages becuase it will surely kill the game.

I did and I do. Problem? Is it not "cool bro"? "LAWL"

Edited December 5, 2012 by Lights Out

[Bass50 43]

I'd like a system where all skills are available to everyone and you can allocate a small amount of 'points' to different skills (ranging from marksmanship to medicine to engineering to w/e) upon starting and being able to earn more points by simply playing the game and actually using these skills.

Of course balance will always remain an issue, and people shouldn't be able to become a master of all trades.

[iashford 73]

For trivial stuff, I believe the game should have some sort of advantages that aren't very game changing, but are implemented to feel organic and natural. For example, repairing your first car will take a slight bit longer then it would if you were to repair a second or third car. Applying a bandage or a blood pack will take a bit longer then applying your first bandage/blood pack. Stamina should deplete faster if your character is not kept in good shape.

There shouldn't be classes, and there shouldn't be any limits to what someone can do that another person can't. Anything that has an 'upgrade system' so to speak, should not affect the way the world works, and how PvP plays out, because then the game becomes to advantageous for people and breaks balance.

A lot of the skill should come from the player and their experience. For example, if you have chicken meat and you don't cook it long enough (cooking time is controlled by player), you risk getting food poisoning. If you use a degraded item (wood, pick axe, etc) to make a splint for your broken leg, then the chance of that splint breaking is higher. A lot of the skill shouldn't necessarily be applied to your character, but to you as a player. Keep the character 'upgrade system' to trivial, yet organic things like bandage application, and make everything else, like player tracking, recognising cooked meat, etc. harder so people learn from experience. I don't mind being able to have more medical experience then other players, but don't make me limited to a 'doctor' and certainly don't make it break the balance and flow of the game. I should have to work towards getting better medical skills

[McTwitchy 6]

What about reducing the complexity and just keeping the game fun as is. Adding too much complexity and realism isn't exactly where it's at either....

What about character classes... Civilian, Soldier, Medic, Mechanic, Farmer? Each class has a higher chance of finding specific drops in their respective building types (Residential, Military, Hospital, Industrial, Farm)? Each class has pros and cons regarding weapons and what types they might be able to use. I wouldn't expect a civilian to be able to figure out an M249 or how to properly shoot an M24, yet I also don't expect a Soldier to know how to fix a vehicle or administer an Epi pen or properly dose antibiotics.

I could see hunger/health/fatigue being made a bit more realistic, but I wouldn't spend time making it so complex that it ruins the fun. I would love to only be required to have 3 square meals a day vs 45 cans of food or 17 steaks in 3 hours. Liquids, sure, maybe that one's a bit more accurate. I wouldn't mind seeing "rest" as being something included. I.e. if you're infected actually taking antibiotics and having a "sleep" option, however, implementing that would be tricky as no one would want to sit there for 8 hours just watching their character sleep. Maybe just sleep for 5 mins... enough to get something to munch on, a bathroom break, or getting something to drink from the kitchen while you wait.

I don't know about your thought on classes. You forgot to add pilot too..not many can just hop in a helicopter and learn to fly it, on the fly..like I did. In one aspect it might (keyword might) add some sort of transparent teamplay mechanic..but on another how far would you really want to take it? I also know that I don't like to be pigeon holed into a profession, like in WoW for instance, and liking this game to wow(other then network architecture) really bothers me. Maybe I'm just prejudiced.

I do however like your idea of hunger health and fatigue. I don't think you should be able to eat 17 steaks in 3 hours to replenish health..if you did..cue vomit animation..

I think it would be cool and add a bit more immersion in finding shelter if you actually had to find a safe place to sleep for the night(like a bed in fallout). 5 minutes though I don't think would be long enough..unless that was the only way you could add the mechanic..especially since the servers(some of them) are running on real time and not accelerated time.

I saw someone say above here something about tracking..with the game going to be server side ran, player tracking could actually work while not devastating the FPS of the client. It would devastate the memory of the server though...but that's why it's a server,not a PC, it's supposed to be devastated.

Edited December 5, 2012 by McTwitchy

[Menny 116]

I'm strongly against this whole 'skills' notion.

What if all depends on the player? Not on some artificial system of skills and 'experience'. Let's say someone would like to be a good medic, well, then the player should have to practice it, heal people and learn from it. What if there was a complicated wounding system? This would require the player to have extensive knowledge about wounds, the severity and the correct treatment. Make it so that the player has to inspect the patient's body for injuries and apply the right treatment.

Let's take a bullet wound for instance. The medic would inspect the wound, see if the bullet is still in there and needs to be removed or not, perhaps check if anything vital was damaged. He would then have to decide the right treatment. Treating the wound badly would end in the patient not getting better or worse. Of course all of this would be visually presented so no text hints, this will require the medic to have actual experience at healing people, not some magic ingame 'skill'.

The same method could be used for fixing vehicles.

[finkone 320]

I'm strongly against this whole 'skills' notion.

What if all depends on the player? Not on some artificial system of skills and 'experience'. Let's say someone would like to be a good medic, well, then the player should have to practice it, heal people and learn from it. What if there was a complicated wounding system? This would require the player to have extensive knowledge about wounds, the severity and the correct treatment. Make it so that the player has to inspect the patient's body for injuries and apply the right treatment.

Let's take a bullet wound for instance. The medic would inspect the wound, see if the bullet is still in there and needs to be removed or not, perhaps check if anything vital was damaged. He would then have to decide the right treatment. Treating the wound badly would end in the patient not getting better or worse. Of course all of this would be visually presented so no text hints, this will require the medic to have actual experience at healing people, not some magic ingame 'skill'.

The same method could be used for fixing vehicles.

This ^^^^^^

Seems like half you other guys are coming out with lame ideas and trying to turn this shit into WoW... I want to worry about staying alive, not picking a solider to find more weapons loot so I can kill you guys and invest in a fast reload, double mag, double damage perk. The masses will ruin this game if Rocket doesn't pick his implements carefully, and doesn't stay focused on the disorientation he and I AM SO IN LOVE WITH.

[032125 (DayZ) 91]

This ^^^^^^

Seems like half you other guys are coming out with lame ideas and trying to turn this shit into WoW... I want to worry about staying alive, not picking a solider to find more weapons loot so I can kill you guys and invest in a fast reload, double mag, double damage perk. The masses will ruin this game if Rocket doesn't pick his implements carefully, and doesn't stay focused on the disorientation he and I AM SO IN LOVE WITH.

The explicit/implicit philosophy is one of immergent, organic problemsolving rather than arbitrary, forced mechanics (which classes, perks, and skills all lead to, for better or worse). Balance? It's already there; everyone is brittle and hungry. Instant balance. Add arbitrary classes and the devs will be forever nerfing the classes that shine brightest.

Personally, I'd have an actual image of a real GSW pop up when I examine an injured player, and then have to use real-life skills to assess and triage, instead of selecting a preset number of medical "sklll points" to be able to auto-treat the wound. This is an engine where you can navigate by the stars on a clear night, if you have the know-how. Why not extend that to mechanics, pilots, medics, and so on?

If there are some of us who happen to carry around all of that knowledge, we will fare better in the long run than the bored COD transfers with inhuman twitch speeds and amazing aim, who quickly get bored and take up banditry. "Are you sure you want to shoot that guy, billy? He might be the only mechanic in the server right now, and our UAZ has broken down again..."

I look at this as a simulator (or "anti-game" as it has been labelled) rather than a big blockbuster meant to appeal to the popcorn eating crowd. The more of those tropes the devs put in, the more the simulation loses its niche, its appeal, its uniqueness. It becomes just a zombie game, in a world flooded with zombie games.

Edited December 5, 2012 by 032125

[Lights Out 141]

This ^^^^^^

Seems like half you other guys are coming out with lame ideas and trying to turn this shit into WoW... I want to worry about staying alive, not picking a solider to find more weapons loot so I can kill you guys and invest in a fast reload, double mag, double damage perk. The masses will ruin this game if Rocket doesn't pick his implements carefully, and doesn't stay focused on the disorientation he and I AM SO IN LOVE WITH.

Every one is entitled to their own opinion. I for one would not care whether it was in the game or not. However, Rocket has mentioned an interest in putting in a passive skill system so you might as well weigh in on it if you have an idea of how it should work.

The only way I see it working is if it's done in the background. I shouldn't notice there is a skill system at all. Unless, for an example, I notice lately I've been able to more efficiently stop my wounds from bleeding.

I still believe and always will believe that we need to find a way to put more worth in the character themselves, not just what's in their pack.

Edited December 5, 2012 by Lights Out

[finkone 320]

The explicit/implicit philosophy is one of immergent, organic problemsolving rather than arbitrary, forced mechanics (which classes, perks, and skills all lead to, for better or worse). Balance? It's already there; everyone is brittle and hungry. Instant balance. Add arbitrary classes and the devs will be forever nerfing the classes that shine brightest.

Personally, I'd have an actual image of a real GSW pop up when I examine an injured player, and then have to use real-life skills to assess and triage, instead of selecting a preset number of medical "sklll points" to be able to auto-treat the wound. This is an engine where you can navigate by the stars on a clear night, if you have the know-how. Why not extend that to mechanics, pilots, medics, and so on?

If there are some of us who happen to carry around all of that knowledge, we will fare better in the long run than the bored COD transfers with inhuman twitch speeds and amazing aim, who quickly get bored and take up banditry. "Are you sure you want to shoot that guy, billy? He might be the only mechanic in the server right now, and our UAZ has broken down again..."

I look at this as a simulator (or "anti-game" as it has been labelled) rather than a big blockbuster meant to appeal to the popcorn eating crowd. The more of those tropes the devs put in, the more the simulation loses its niche, its appeal, its uniqueness. It becomes just a zombie game, in a world flooded with zombie games.

Not sure why you quoted me - I was agreeing with the person above me, and in general you are also... but anyways... Billy is gonna get killed with his friend once they approach the mechanic for help - because hes gonna steal their UAZ. 1.3Mil players for a mod is already a blockbuster - that is a monster record for any type of mod. With that said, this is a mod, it would TAKE OFF - if ever dedicated advertisement took place. I am entirely against any type of perk class, or skill class, or picking a background for my character. Take your regular old guy get him tired, wet, hungry, scared, and give'em a weapon - he will do unthinkable things. Think I'm shitting you? Check youtube videos of black friday crowd madness - people biting each other. So Billy and his buddy can be interested in skill-set all he wants... if it was IRL, I'd be thinking, nope another mouth to feed, another possible enemy in my AO, I managed to link up with several friends, I know I can rely on them, if that "mechanic" looking guy comes my way I'll kill him for his wrench.

[finkone 320]

Every one is entitled to their own opinion. I for one would not care whether it was in the game or not. However, Rocket has mentioned an interest in putting in a passive skill system so you might as well weigh in on it if you have an idea of how it should work.

The only way I see it working is if it's done in the background. I shouldn't notice there is a skill system at all. Unless, for an example, I notice lately I've been able to more efficiently stop my wounds from bleeding.

I still believe and always will believe that we need to find a way to put more worth in the character themselves, not just what's in their pack.

... I was weighing in on it - with agreeing with the person above me as not supporting it. If there is ANY TYPE of skill or development character wise, I don't want to see its progression of have to make a choice using a menu or anything of that nature. I should have to figure it out on my own. As you said - everyone has a opinion and I voiced mine... agreeing with the person that posted above me... ?

[Lights Out 141]

The explicit/implicit philosophy is one of immergent, organic problemsolving rather than arbitrary, forced mechanics (which classes, perks, and skills all lead to, for better or worse). Balance? It's already there; everyone is brittle and hungry. Instant balance. Add arbitrary classes and the devs will be forever nerfing the classes that shine brightest.

Personally, I'd have an actual image of a real GSW pop up when I examine an injured player, and then have to use real-life skills to assess and triage, instead of selecting a preset number of medical "sklll points" to be able to auto-treat the wound. This is an engine where you can navigate by the stars on a clear night, if you have the know-how. Why not extend that to mechanics, pilots, medics, and so on?

If there are some of us who happen to carry around all of that knowledge, we will fare better in the long run than the bored COD transfers with inhuman twitch speeds and amazing aim, who quickly get bored and take up banditry. "Are you sure you want to shoot that guy, billy? He might be the only mechanic in the server right now, and our UAZ has broken down again..."

I look at this as a simulator (or "anti-game" as it has been labelled) rather than a big blockbuster meant to appeal to the popcorn eating crowd. The more of those tropes the devs put in, the more the simulation loses its niche, its appeal, its uniqueness. It becomes just a zombie game, in a world flooded with zombie games.

I've thought of this myself and I'd love to see that but I don't see that working without YEARS of development. That's basically like a bunch of simulators within a simulator. Inception :D. But yes, I agree, this would be the best option but also the most difficult to implement.

[Lights Out 141]

... I was weighing in on it - with agreeing with the person above me as not supporting it. If there is ANY TYPE of skill or development character wise, I don't want to see its progression of have to make a choice using a menu or anything of that nature. I should have to figure it out on my own. As you said - everyone has a opinion and I voiced mine... agreeing with the person that posted above me... ?

Indeed, to be honest if it went the route of me actively picking a background, skill tree, allotting skill points, etc. etc., I'd much rather just not see it in the game at all. It's one of those things you have to do right or just scrap it all together.

[starwarsfan@gmx.de 450]

The explicit/implicit philosophy is one of immergent, organic problemsolving rather than arbitrary, forced mechanics (which classes, perks, and skills all lead to, for better or worse). Balance? It's already there; everyone is brittle and hungry. Instant balance. Add arbitrary classes and the devs will be forever nerfing the classes that shine brightest.

Personally, I'd have an actual image of a real GSW pop up when I examine an injured player, and then have to use real-life skills to assess and triage, instead of selecting a preset number of medical "sklll points" to be able to auto-treat the wound. This is an engine where you can navigate by the stars on a clear night, if you have the know-how. Why not extend that to mechanics, pilots, medics, and so on?

If there are some of us who happen to carry around all of that knowledge, we will fare better in the long run than the bored COD transfers with inhuman twitch speeds and amazing aim, who quickly get bored and take up banditry. "Are you sure you want to shoot that guy, billy? He might be the only mechanic in the server right now, and our UAZ has broken down again..."

I look at this as a simulator (or "anti-game" as it has been labelled) rather than a big blockbuster meant to appeal to the popcorn eating crowd. The more of those tropes the devs put in, the more the simulation loses its niche, its appeal, its uniqueness. It becomes just a zombie game, in a world flooded with zombie games.

Amen to that.

[032125 (DayZ) 91]

Not sure why you quoted me - I was agreeing with the person above me, and in general you are also... but anyways... Billy is gonna get killed with his friend once they approach the mechanic for help - because hes gonna steal their UAZ. 1.3Mil players for a mod is already a blockbuster - that is a monster record for any type of mod. With that said, this is a mod, it would TAKE OFF - if ever dedicated advertisement took place. I am entirely against any type of perk class, or skill class, or picking a background for my character. Take your regular old guy get him tired, wet, hungry, scared, and give'em a weapon - he will do unthinkable things. Think I'm shitting you? Check youtube videos of black friday crowd madness - people biting each other. So Billy and his buddy can be interested in skill-set all he wants... if it was IRL, I'd be thinking, nope another mouth to feed, another possible enemy in my AO, I managed to link up with several friends, I know I can rely on them, if that "mechanic" looking guy comes my way I'll kill him for his wrench.

I was agreeing with you (and the guy you were agreeing with), though I take a much less dim view of humanity than you are expressing here. Being a student of Austrian economics, I agree that people can always be counted on to act in thier own (percieved) self interests, but I extrapolate from that premise the notion that if mechanics allow people to cooperate, the generally will. The viciousness of DayZ heretofore may have been a consequence of the lack of those social mechanics, and perhaps even moreso the lack of a division of labor.

In a setting where social contact is all risk (he might shoot me) and little reward (he can't do anything I can't, but he has beans), there isn't any advantage to cooperation, empathy, restraint, etc. and you get what we've seen thus far, but that's a totally artificial environment.

[hulkingunicorn 20]

Delayed bans are only good for private cheats, but should NOT be used in when detecting public cheats. Public cheats needs to be busted as fast as possible to prevent hackers flooding servers

From what I read, I got the impression they delayed banning for new hacks only, but I don't know how correct that is. If a hack grows rampant it needs putting down, though.

[...]"They can ban more game keys" O rly? Why should someone use multiple keys if he's not banned on his current one?

Also, the delaying of the bans itself is not the problem. PB/ BE use a delayed banning system as well, it's just that a VAC ban takes weeks or months to become active, even on public hacks. A lot of cheaters don't care if they have to re-buy the game every few weeks/ months (that's how fast VAC bans usually are), as long as they can use their cheats for this time.

I thought of a flock of crows, where they send out a few scouts to check if the area is safe. If you want to eradicate the crows around, you'd do better to let the main flock land before you strike, so you don't just get the early adopters. If they detect and ban a new hack within a day, they'll have fewer cheaters to ban than if they allowed some days for the hack to spread (as potential users of a hack could be warned by the dead scouts).

I don't have any experience with how fast VAC is, but several weeks is too slow for my tastes. I think it ought to be linked to the adoption rate of the hack in some fashion.

[...]what concern me the most is that by making this

"The Server controls character actions, a player’s client sends its requests and the server decides if this is possible. Our lead programmer in the company, Ondrej Spanel, is working on this currently. I believe this is one of the most radical changes ever implemented in the engine since Operation Flashpoint was released, and turns DayZ from an FPS into a true MMO"

controlling vehicules will become a pain in the arse just like APB

What makes you think that? I haven't played APB, by the way, so please go into more detail.

[...]

Personally, I'd have an actual image of a real GSW pop up when I examine an injured player, and then have to use real-life skills to assess and triage, instead of selecting a preset number of medical "sklll points" to be able to auto-treat the wound. This is an engine where you can navigate by the stars on a clear night, if you have the know-how. Why not extend that to mechanics, pilots, medics, and so on?

[...]

This would be interesting, it also matches what rocket has said about player skill and knowledge helping in the game/sim. I'd like to see

, but I have the feeling it would destroy the budget to add new complex mechanics like these.

They've talked about allowing players to code/create their own security systems for underground bases though, so maybe there's hope.

[032125 (DayZ) 91]

This would be interesting, it also matches what rocket has said about player skill and knowledge helping in the game/sim. I'd like to see

, but I have the feeling it would destroy the budget to add new complex mechanics like these.

They've talked about allowing players to code/create their own security systems for underground bases though, so maybe there's hope.

Oh I don't expect the devs to do anything but stabilize the existing game right now; this is only my hope for long term development (i.e. by next Christmas). The schedule is pretty packed as it stands, and it wouldn't be remotely possible without the aforementioned and much maligned (IMDO) Steam assistance.