New Dev Blog Report: November 2012

[newtee2 9]

from what i have read people are not "getting their knickers in a twist about using VAC", the issue is steam itself from what i read and my personal POV, i dont buy games that require steam as i do not wish to be locked into a service that could be gone tomorrow and i do not apreciate giving up my basic consumer rights.

i would like to correct one misconception you seem to have, people do not lose their steam account if caught using cheats, only the use of the games using the engine they cheated in, nothing changes compared to now, i read that people who get banned by the current anti-cheat used by dayz can just buy another CD key, people that cheat in steam can make a new account and repurchase the game, also because VAC does not ban instantly a cheater can keep griefing for "days or weeks", to quote online sources, before VAC actually kicks in, this to me seems like a considerable downgrade compared to the current situation where if someone is caught by the dayz anti-cheat they are instantly banned.

As I can understand one not wanting to purchase physical copies of games that require you to log onto Steam, which in turn requires an internet connection, but one not wanting to register and purchase games on steam because 'it could be gone tomorrow' is ludicrous in my opinion. Steam has been around for many years and I do not see any reason for it to go away anytime soon. VAC, Punkbuster, and many anti-cheating systems are fundamentally flawed. I agree with what Rocket states in his earlier post:

The short and simple truth is that there will be hackers. Period.

We are changing the architecture to reduce the impact of these hacks, and we have VAC that can act as something of a deterrent to the those hacking. More and more, I am convinced the best way forward is to provide the ability to run private servers, for private communities. This is the absolute best thing we can do to combat hacking, and the easiest. So we must remain vigilant and do what we can, and this base architecture change will drastically reduce the hacking options - but overall giving the power and ability for communities to manage themselves will be the most powerful thing we can do.

[rooneye 135]

I have to say, I've never been so impressed by the way a dev/dev team has went about creating a game and being so open with the community. Looking into the future (quite far I imagine) any new games Rocket and the team are involved in, I will be all over, even if the genre isnt my cup of tea. I think the word to sum it up would be 'class'. Something the (and I really do hate to bring this up) WarZ devs have 0 of. I heard someone tell me that in their patch notes or whatever, for their version of tents (what ever it is they use to stash stuff in) the patch notes read "(Working as intended unlike DayZ) at the end of the sentence Not sure if it really says this, but if it does it speaks volumes for the devs. Any WarZ players here (or anyone who has read the thing) who can confirm that or link it?

[Spikér 136]

I hate steam, I was hoping you would release it with more choice including hard copies. I would have thought having steam control it will affect the price, please don't tell me it's going to be more that the $15 mark? Has the price been finalised?

Some players are loyal enough to wait for the SA, but they know they are going to be screwed over by their ISP when they go over net usage allowance by downloading it over steam! Have you given thought to that

and if you read his comments you would see his answer.

But to put it in short. BI dont have the capacity to deal with the potential number of sales incoming, so what would you like him to do if it was your Choice?

A) Use a distribution network already available and spend ALL his resources on developing the game

or

B) Stop developing or slow it down to develop a distribution network of his own?

[rooneye 135]

and if you read his comments you would see his answer.

But to put it in short. BI dont have the capacity to deal with the potential number of sales incoming, so what would you like him to do if it was your Choice?

A) Use a distribution network already available and spend ALL his resources on developing the game

or

B) Stop developing or slow it down to develop a distribution network of his own?

Agreed. Why go through all the hassle of an out dated expensive distribution method just because of a childish feeling of hate someone for some reason has against steam.

[newtee2 9]

Agreed. Why go through all the hassle of an out dated expensive distribution method just because of a childish feeling of hate someone for some reason has against steam.

I can understand hate towards Steam, at least in its early days when it was first conceived. It was very buggy and had loadsaproblems, and many ridiculed Steam back then. As for today, the most common reason to hate Steam is because it is 'forced DRM'. I can understand this reasoning.. In order to play a multiplayer game on Steam it must always be running, and in order to install some games you must have a Steam account and Steam must be running. Is this inconvenient? Yes and no.

[rocket 16567]

I really want to reinforce that nobody should be forcing anyone to "like" steam or consider it as "acceptable" that it is how I decided we would move forward as a project. I can understand people's misgivings. An example is the issue of the terms and conditions preventing class actions. GabeN replied with his thoughts on why they did it. At the end of the day, both viewpoints are valid. I've outlined the reality of the situation, and the decision making process behind it. In terms of announcing it sooner, really I am announcing it as soon as we could.

[lvg 1690]

You don't lose your account according to the VAC description.

The way VAC currently works is that you're banned in the respective game engine, so a CSS ban would gain you a ban across all source games and a CS ban would gain you a ban on all SRC games, I assume VAC on this wouldn't ban your account from any other game but it would give you a black mark.

[grndctrl 28]

No, not really. Even though standalone will be secured, that doesn't mean you should use some shitty anti-cheat. I don't understand why they don't want to use BattlEye! VAC sucks and barely works in Valve games! + Gives server admins no options and isn't really fast when it comes to detecting cheats

Yes , you are right . Next time i'll do some research before I talk. I think i just hate both.

[Sanjo (DayZ) 0]

Lose lips Sink ships, lol

Can't wait.

wat :D that band rocks :DD

If you were refering to them :/

[livilaNic 13]

"Most settings will be forced server-side, such as gameplay and graphical settings (view distance, shadow distance, etc…). The exact nature of this and specific settings is very much subject to change, but this will be a significant departure from how it is currently with the mod."

Can you tell me if 3dp will be forced? Or will those settings (3dp, global chat, tags, etc.) stay the same as they are now? Meaning, the server admin/owner can enable/disable most of those settings if they choose to? I've been away from the forums for a bit. I went back over your posts (rocket), but didn't see anything mentioned -- on exactly which/what game play settings will be forced. Sorry if this has been answered recently. I couldn't find it. :P

[monkie 30]

As I can understand one not wanting to purchase physical copies of games that require you to log onto Steam, which in turn requires an internet connection, but one not wanting to register and purchase games on steam because 'it could be gone tomorrow' is ludicrous in my opinion. Steam has been around for many years and I do not see any reason for it to go away anytime soon. VAC, Punkbuster, and many anti-cheating systems are fundamentally flawed. I agree with what Rocket states in his earlier post:

it is not the main reason i dont use steam, the main reason i stated in a earlier post, i do not see why i should give up my statutory rights and using steam requires me to do so.

you may think it is ludicrous but companies much larger than valve have gone bankrupt, or been taken over by other companies, i dont only have to trust valve i have to trust every possible new owner of valve. i also have to trust that valves service will always be available.

if rocket was starting completely from scratch i might understand his arguments a little more but BIS seems to already have everything in place that is required to release the game in a way that respects my consumer rights, and seems to have survived quite well as a company releasing games without requiring steam.

and if you read his comments you would see his answer.

But to put it in short. BI dont have the capacity to deal with the potential number of sales incoming, so what would you like him to do if it was your Choice?

A) Use a distribution network already available and spend ALL his resources on developing the game

or

B) Stop developing or slow it down to develop a distribution network of his own?

or they could just hire some capacity in the cloud the way other companies do if they expect a short burst of high traffic?

BIS has a store, it already develops games, unless you have some specific knowledge of BIS development that i dont your argument seems to hold little weight.

[jasonchaser@live.co.uk 0]

wat :D that band rocks :DD

If you were refering to them :/

I think he was meaning this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loose_lips_sink_ships

[rocket 16567]

if rocket was starting completely from scratch i might understand his arguments a little more but BIS seems to already have everything in place that is required to release the game in a way that respects my consumer rights, and seems to have survived quite well as a company releasing games without requiring steam.

...

or they could just hire some capacity in the cloud the way other companies do if they expect a short burst of high traffic?

BIS has a store, it already develops games, unless you have some specific knowledge of BIS development that i dont your argument seems to hold little weight.

I feel like I'm really laboring the point here but - it is not just about content delivery. We removed our dependency on gamespy, and we now use Steam's matchmaking API. This costs us (read: you) nothing. We use VAC, this costs us (read: you) nothing. It is also trivial, and seriously I really mean trivial, for us to add support for this through steam. We originally had plans to do our own patching systems and use our own store and all those kinds of things - but those take serious time. I mean, really significant periods of development. You're talking years here. And running a store like Steam is very complex - fraud protection is an extremely big issue, people buying keys with stolen credit cards then selling them quickly for a cheap buck - then the key getting banned, the charges reversed - and both the developer and the person who bought the cheap key left out in the cold.

Like nearly every decision, it wasn't made in a vacuum. The decision was made because I felt is offered the best hope to the project to move forward in a timeline that I could cope with. The only issue I've managed to have as a consumer so far with steam, is the overzealous fraud protection system that causes me issues when buying with my credit card while travelling. But, on the development side, I'm kind of glad their fraud protection is a little overzealous. Chargebacks are a major, major pain.

Let me summarize the main parts we get in this system, that we wouldn't get going through the BI Store alone as it is now (not an exhaustive list):

• Auto-updating delta patcher
  
• Anti-cheat system
  
• Multiplayer server browsers and matchmaking
  
• International digitial distribution
  
• World-class Fraud protection
  
• Steamworks (if we wanted it)
  
• Free marketing (steam shop etc...)
  
• Anti-piracy measures
  
• Developer pushed updates
  

There is no organic capacity at the studio for any of these. We had talked about them. They were on the plans. But the better option came up. Even if we went out, right now, and kickstarter'd it up - and we raised 10mil, hell 30mil - it would still add significant time to the project to have to do all these. And given the vast resources that Blzzard had with Diablo 3 - money AND skilled people is not enough to stop launch failure. So we are going with the partner we have worked most closely with, who are able to best meet our development needs.

[Spikér 136]

I feel like I'm really laboring the point here but - it is not just about content delivery. We removed our dependency on gamespy, and we now use Steam's matchmaking API. This costs us (read: you) nothing. We use VAC, this costs us (read: you) nothing. It is also trivial, and seriously I really mean trivial, for us to add support for this through steam. We originally had plans to do our own patching systems and use our own store and all those kinds of things - but those take serious time. I mean, really significant periods of development. You're talking years here. And running a store like Steam is very complex - fraud protection is an extremely big issue, people buying keys with stolen credit cards then selling them quickly for a cheap buck - then the key getting banned, the charges reversed - and both the developer and the person who bought the cheap key left out in the cold.

Like nearly every decision, it wasn't made in a vacuum. The decision was made because I felt is offered the best hope to the project to move forward in a timeline that I could cope with. The only issue I've managed to have as a consumer so far with steam, is the overzealous fraud protection system that causes me issues when buying with my credit card while travelling. But, on the development side, I'm kind of glad their fraud protection is a little overzealous. Chargebacks are a major, major pain.

Let me summarize the main parts we get in this system, that we wouldn't get going through the BI Store alone as it is now (not an exhaustive list):

• Auto-updating delta patcher
  
• Anti-cheat system
  
• Multiplayer server browsers and matchmaking
  
• International digitial distribution
  
• World-class Fraud protection
  
• Steamworks (if we wanted it)
  
• Free marketing (steam shop etc...)
  
• Anti-piracy measures
  
• Developer pushed updates
  

There is no organic capacity for any of these. We had talked about them. They were on the plans. But the better option came up. Even if we went out, right now, and kickstarter'd it up - and we raised 10mil, hell 30mil - it would still add significant time to the project to have to do all these. And given the vast resources that Blzzard had with Diablo 3 - money AND skilled people is not enough to stop launch failure. So we are going with the partner we have worked most closely with, who are able to best meet our development needs.

Ohh how i remembered the disaster that was the diablo 3 launch! Btw Rocket, i know your probably busy with all this steam stuff, but any chance you could give any hits or what not about underground features on the Dayz+map please?

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/109200-new-dev-blog-report-november-2012/page__st__80#entry1031211

saves you looking through all the posts if you can answer please :)

Edited November 30, 2012 by Spikér

[Mos1ey 6301]

What's wrong with Steam? I'm stoked to hear I'll be able to have DayZ in there with all my other games. :S

Really glad you're going with a Steam release.

[rocket 16567]

What's wrong with Steam? I'm stoked to hear I'll be able to have DayZ in there with all my other games. :S

Really glad you're going with a Steam release.

I don't think the issue is so much steam as that we are forcing people to use a mechanism to utilize the game. This is irritating for any consumer. I did NOT like having to register a windows live account just to play Red Faction: Whatever, and I had a great deal of trouble getting it working especially when offline. So I can understand this, the problem is:

To play DayZ you must use <insert digital store here>

Regardless of what digital store it is, if you aren't currently using that store it is going to be a pain in the arse. My hope here, is to demonstrate we didn't make this decision because we're lazy, we have shares in Steam, or I am on GabeN's Christmas Card list, we made the decision because it best supports our development pipeline and allows us to focus on making the game. Fact of the matter is, from my perspective, my contacts at Steam pretty much have said "tell us what you need to make this game" and we said "this, this and this". And here they are. No marketing rubbish, product store placements, discussions of exclusivity.

[bishopdaenforcer 0]

so would i very interesting

[vacalouca 86]

What's wrong with Steam? I'm stoked to hear I'll be able to have DayZ in there with all my other games. :S

Really glad you're going with a Steam release.

^^ This

[rocket 16567]

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/11/30/psa-far-cry-3-servers-currently-down/

That's what happens when you try and do it for yourself. And Ubisoft has plenty more cash than we do.

[SmashT 10907]

But will it have hats?

[mzltv 2281]

But will it have hats?

I'm more than happy to go through the ardious process of getting a refund from Steam if it doesn't!

"HATS OR YOUR MONEY BACK" - that should be the marketing slogan.

[RooBurger 285]

my contacts at Steam pretty much have said "tell us what you need to make this game" and we said "this, this and this". And here they are. No marketing rubbish, product store placements, discussions of exclusivity.

[sniperdoc 251]

Agreed. Why go through all the hassle of an out dated expensive distribution method just because of a childish feeling of hate someone for some reason has against steam.

First off I'd like to say I'm not just picking on you Rooneye, the following comment is directed at anyone using phrases like "whining", "childish" or any other condescending terminology.

Just because some people actually care about something, such as their rights as a consumer, or any other VALID concerns, doesn't give you the right as an individual do put those people down, be condescending towards them, or invalidate their concerns/questions.

It is because people invalidate other people's concerns that discussions escalate to rants or flame wars... so I'm just asking people be civil (and humane) and act like the adults they profess to be.

I really want to reinforce that nobody should be forcing anyone to "like" steam or consider it as "acceptable" that it is how I decided we would move forward as a project. I can understand people's misgivings. An example is the issue of the terms and conditions preventing class actions. GabeN replied with his thoughts on why they did it. At the end of the day, both viewpoints are valid. I've outlined the reality of the situation, and the decision making process behind it. In terms of announcing it sooner, really I am announcing it as soon as we could.

Thank you Rocket... I didn't intend for you to expound as much on the issue as you did, but it IS appreciated and I fully understood all your points before you even mentioned them and I also completely understand your reasoning for using the Steam platform.

I have nothing against Steam itself as a content delivery platform. It is a solid, efficient and very user friendly system. I personally just do not like their policies towards consumers (as you've already covered as well). And really I was just voicing a concern, maybe giving alternatives, but not really asking you to change providers at all. I don't work for you, nor do I have any right whatsoever to alter your decision/choice in any way. :)

Again, I would like to say that I highly appreciate your interaction with us, the gamers/consumers. It shows you are of a different caliber and breed than most other developers and I really want to thank you for that.

What's wrong with Steam? I'm stoked to hear I'll be able to have DayZ in there with all my other games. :S

Really glad you're going with a Steam release.

Please see my responses in this thread regarding Steam. xD

Edited November 30, 2012 by sniperdoc

[Revilo 156]

I was wondering if you could talk more about the movement, to me, movement is one of the biggest aspects of a game, I absolutely cannot stand games that feel floaty, and Arma 2 definitely does not feel floaty, but it doesn't exactly feel responsive all the time. From a military sim standpoint, I can understand things in Arma 2, such as the stance changes and weapon collision, but for something like Day Z; which from what I can tell is both trying to be a hardcore experience, and be a little more accessible, it doesn't exactly work.

My question is, will things like the painful stance changes (I know you addressed this but I'd love more info, specifically on being forced to stand up sometimes when prone), weapon collision and awkward vault mechanic be replaced? Maybe we'll have the function to be able to jump, or vault while running?

Edited November 30, 2012 by Revilo

[maleitch 14]

But will it have hats?

I know this is said in jest, but to me this sums up 80% of the improvements that Rocket mentions in his dev. Rocket seems to be making the correct decisions, but I have to admit this latest post concerns me more than excites me. I have no problem with Steam, and I am a huge supporter of Chet's vision in gaming for the most part, however I can't help but get the impression that the development focus is on providing framework for goofy microtransactions.

I hope that is not the case Rocket as the game will be immensely successful on its own gameplay merits and will have to resort to such gimmicks.

Good luck and get back to work!