Gauging Interest: A "True" Hardcore Immersion-based Server

[9103 9]

I will try to keep this short and simple (wont likely happen, though). Basically I'm wondering how many people out there are looking for a private hive server that requires registration and is password protected with a community and immersion focus. A server that has nearly everything shut off... No third person. No cross hairs. No map indicators. No death messages... etc.

A server that is bent on bringing about a realistic Day Z experience and requiring players to really utilize their brains in navigating and all other aspects of Day Z. Having to find and study bodies to confirm kills, no scroll wheel range finding (gotta know how to snipe and do your own range finding). No third person driving or flying of helicopters. No "GPS"-built in maps. No way points.

Are there people out there wanting to still immerse themselves while playing? Be a bit more worried/scared? Have to think a bit harder?

We are wanting to start up a server with this play style and plan to form a solid community in the process.. We would like to see our server full of mature players who play the game in a realistic fashion... We tolerate banditry... We want it. But we also want our players to be held accountable for their actions and have consequences... We want our players to be able to build a reputation for themselves here... Do you want to be that villain that everyone talks about while crouching through the jungle? hoping that you aren't watching them with your scope that very minute? Or do you want to be the hero that appears at a survivors most dire moment to administer that morphine and blood bag... then vanish into the mist. Do you want to be that gun dealer that has everything someone may want? Maybe you and your buddies form that cartel... maybe you form that bandit gang... maybe you build a shelter for wayward survivors and help them make their way and offer your protection as a hired gun/merc..

Maybe you fix up a bus and become a transportation service for the hell of it.

Today on the server, we made an exchange with a fellow survivor.... My buddy and myself roll up to a meeting spot while playing "Ridin Dirty" by Chamillionaire (for gangster immersion lols)... We hop out.. I got my SAW ready in case things get crazy... I scan the hill for any snipers posted... looks good... We exchange some weapons for gear. Guy takes off in his beater skoda and we head out on our way... Does every encounter need to be Kill on sight? no...

We are looking for those mature players that have the ability to think and be reasonable and honorable... We also welcome those psychopaths that want to play the bandits. But anyone interested in a server that takes the Day Z experience to another level through immersion and a realistic approach with due regard given to honor, reputation, and making a name for yourself within a community of like minded players- let us know.

Enough interest shown and we will open the flood gates to those interested. Thanks for your time.

-------------------------------------

Update (as of 9/26/2012):

The server is currently up and running but we are adding to the community slowly at first before we start fully advertising here on the forum. I will be accepting PMs of interest, with which I will send you the needed information for you to register for the community and gain your access. Those who are not willing to deal with very minor hiccups while we establish ourselves can wait until we get rock solid and begin full advertisement of the server... if you want to jump right in and enjoy the community and server, hiccups and all- PM me and I will get you on your way.

Edited September 27, 2012 by 9103

[Kyzahh 127]

It all sounds very nice but I can't do 1st person only. Arma's first person is rubbish (opinion) for everything except shooting but I can see why you want it off. Best of luck.

[Physsion 6]

Would definitely be very keen on playing this if you went ahead with it.

[9103 9]

Would definitely be very keen on playing this if you went ahead with it.

I'm positive we will be going ahead with this, but it would be nice to have the reassurance that people will invest in it. I would like to see some positive feedback in regard to a immersive realistic play style based server with a good community aspect. Building the community is the key. I encourage all of those who are interested in this type of server to PM me so that I can keep your name down for contacting once the server is set up with this style in mind. Thanks again for all the feedback thus far.. Those who are interested but are turned off by first person only, I at least encourage you to try it out and give it a few days of playing... We've ha a lot of people come in saying "I cant do this first person only bit" and yet when they continued to play longer, they eventually got used to it and it grew on them far more than third person. In fact, I find that I still use first person by default even when I visit other servers with 3rd Person on now.

Lets get some more positive interest!

[KennyNZ 121]

Yeah, I kind of agree with Kyzahh about the 1st person... It's not that I want third person, I just don't like the first person very much, and I've tried it for quite a few hours.

Other than that it sounds pretty awesome and I'm sure you'd get lots of interest if you could keep any potential hacking under control, as that is what is getting to most people at the moment.

If it's good enough, I would consider just dealing with the first person issue and playing it anyway.

Edited September 24, 2012 by KennyNZ

[9103 9]

Yeah, I kind of agree with Kyzahh about the 1st person... It's not that I want third person, I just don't like the first person very much, and I've tried it for quite a few hours.

Other than that it sounds pretty awesome and I'm sure you'd get lots of interest if you could keep any potential hacking under control, as that is what is getting to most people at the moment.

If it's good enough, I would consider just dealing with the first person issue and playing it anyway.

Thanks for the response.

We will have the server on password lock down with the password being changed at a decided upon interval down the road. All registered community users that are active, will continue to receive the password when it is changed. This will keep most hackers at bay and emphasize on the community aspect and keep our player base active in order to keep the password and their access to the server. We also plan to take all steps in addition to ban all those who abuse the server rules, hack, or exploit in any way since being a private hive allows us to actually admin our server correctly. With a community established, it will be less likely we deal with any hackers on a real serious level, since most everyone will be familiar with one another over time and any hacking would not go unnoticed by our core players and it would promptly be reported and taken care of.

As far as first person goes- it has been my personal experience that first person does not really reduce the field of view as much as people may think. The head bob can be deactivated for those who get nauseated from it. The first person only is to enhance the immersion (obviously) and to level the playing field for all players in game. It cuts out the tendency for people to abuse third person by looking around walls and getting a unfair advantage to players who keep to first person only, themselves. We want an equal and fair experience for all our players... trying to cater to two different play styles will only cause a division in community. We have tried it before and the best route is to settle on one or the other. Since this will be a hardcore immersion server, it makes more sense to go with first person only to enhance the experience in a way that is more realistic. Having third person would cut back a lot of that by allowing people to see clearly while prone in grass, shrubs, etc. My first experience on a first person only setting server had me laying prone in grass while zombies wandered around me... I could hardly see, and I finally (for the first time in a long time) had to worry about myself.

It goes both ways... Snipers cannot prone in grass with a gillie suit and watch all around them to see activity, then pop up, and shoot someone. Nor can people hide behind buildings and peek around corners in third person, never risking their safety by doing so. Again, it all comes back to realism and immersion for these server settings. I understand a lot of people like their third person setting, but we want to cater to those who want a harder experience and a realistic one so that they can immerse themselves in the environment and know that every other player on the server is on the same playing field as them... nobody with a unfair advantage due to them choosing to resort to immersion rather than convenience.

Again, thank you for the responses! I hope even those who disagree with third person being off, will give us a try!

[vaudocent 0]

I would very interested in joining this server. I have been playing on this type of server last couple of weeks and recently started looking into private hive. My only concern is that the server stays up as a problem I've encountered with other hives is they seem to go down a couple of days after i join them.

Edited September 24, 2012 by vaudocent

[christopherwright_75@hotmail.co.uk 109]

Like the sound of this

[grandmont@live.ca 1]

I'd like to be a part of this. I have a few beefs with first person, but I could certainly deal with it. In real life you have a sense of where you are, you can feel your body and know where your arms and legs are, for instance. In first person, you might have half your body sticking out from cover and not actually be able to tell. I've also had a few times where I couldn't tell my weapon was lowered, or that i was crouched instead of standing while running, etc. I know third person isn't very immersive.. but it's even less immersive when you can't tell what your own character is doing and die because of it. I wish it was possible to make a much closer third person camera so it couldn't be used to see around walls and whatnot.

[RpG (DayZ) 2]

I strongly suggest that people change their FOV before deciding that first person is unbearable. I have mine set to 92, and find it much more playable than the default cone that arma gives us. You can change it using this guide:

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/31609-ultimate-fov-field-of-view-guide-for-arma-2-and-dayz-from-dayzpvpcom/

[KennyNZ 121]

I agree, you definitely need to make it 1st person only if you want the server to function correctly. I think you will get plenty of interest in it even with everything set to "hard".

I've actually been quite bored of DayZ lately... been playing Lingor, but that's even worse in some ways, you can have a car and 5 top tier weapons in one session... then what? This server might add a bit of the stress back to the game, which is what made it great in the first place.

The only other issue for me personally is the unreliability of tents/vehicles saving etc. I don't like to build up massive camps or hoard vehicles, but I do like to have one or two tents in different locations with medical supplies or ammo or something, but the state of the game makes it a little hard to do this. But obviously this isn't your fault and the devs are the only ones who can fix this. I'm not really expecting a fix until standalone tbh, but maybe then, depending on how they want to set things up, admins may have a bit more control over their servers, and this server of yours could start up running the standalone with basically the same rules you want to put in place.... or I would hope so anyway.

The way you plan to set it up sounds pretty good and it sounds like it would work pretty well.

Also, I agree with RpG above, I don't think most people would have messed with their FOV before, but if you're going to be playing first person you NEED to change it, the default is simply quite shit. It's amazing once altered correctly.

EDIT: As part of this server, I would have a list of new FOV values for people to put into their config files depending on their resolution. That way everyone can get an enhanced experience much more easily.

Edited September 24, 2012 by KennyNZ

[myskaal 50]

Down for all but the 1st person only. I understand the arguments for it but I just can't do 1st person only. It totally fucks with me.

[Heiduk 265]

I'll give it a try, Hardcore/Mercenary is the only way to go. Any chance this would be a US server? I've noticed there are plenty of good European Hardcore servers but very few US servers.

[torturedchunk 22]

I am not sure this is covered under the immersion aspect but, will this be a Vanilla Chernarus Server? ie. Not over powered loots and 80+ vehicles. What DayZ should be basically.

[9103 9]

Good to see more interest shown here and questions being tossed our way... Hopefully I can touch on all of them- if not, keep them comin'.

First and foremost- Kenny: Vehicles and tents have been saving correctly for a while now. I have not had an issue with them ever since the last update. I do know what you are talking about, however... as it plagued our previous server for quite a while and made the game pretty well broken for a while... it seems to be completely fixed now- so rest assured!

Eli: I hope you can find a way to work with first person and get used to it, because we would love to have players like you on our server and within our community.. Give us a try sometime once we get it up and running and see if its something you can bare with us. Take into account RPG's suggestions on resolution settings and FOV settings, as well. Maybe this will cure what ails you?

Heiduk: Yes this will be a US server. Currently the server looks to be a east coast-ish server and a lot of us show a high ping, but I have not noticed any game breaking lag (and I am on the west coast). I honestly think the ping reader is screwy and not displaying correctly at the moment- because it doesn't seem to be true to what its showing. But short answer: Yes it will be a US server.

Reality: A very good question... We have no plans to dump uber lewt into the game or modify it to any extreme. Currently we are running Lingor island, which in itself, kinda has a entirely different looting system than old Chernarus. I believe the vehicle spawns is set to 30 but I have only found a few of these myself. We want the game to feel true-to-life in the experience here... While I can see the argument for loot, sometimes heightened vehicle spawns actually enhances a sense of immersion as well.... Of all the wreckage in the world of Day Z, I would hope there would be more than half a dozen driveable vehicles within a 250-ish square Km map... That's just my opinion, however... Theres a lot that Day Z could improve in its core game... that being, realistic spawns... You wouldn't find guns inside of a school house... nor would you find a gillie suit in someones house (unless they were the rare person who liked to dress up in gillies for the hell of it in their backyard...)

So while we may have more vehicle spawns (and thats a maybe), we won't be spawning in anything additional such as tanks... 5 helos... apaches... or anything totally out of character or unintended by the original Day Z vision... So I guess the short answer would be: Yes it will be a vanilla Day Z server... Whether or not we run chernarus is undecided... We are playing with the idea of a map rotation on a possible weekly basis so that players don't get sick of one map after a while... All your items and gear will be saved with each map independently, allowing for you to basically have 2 or more characters... one for each map... As we build up a solid community, these will be things we can discuss within the community.. with our members- and see what direction we want to take...

The one thing I can say for sure is that the server settings will be as hardcore as possible and our focus will be on immersion and having a solid community of good, decent, and reasonable players.

Thanks for all the responses, guys. This brightens my hope in the ability to construct a good Day Z community that is focused on enjoying the game and immersing themselves in the experience rather than run around with no goal in mind and looking to grief survivors all day long. Not to mention the added bonus of evading the ever growing hacker community.

[9103 9]

Just as an update to those following this thread: We are moving forward with establishing this server at this very minute. There's a lot of work to be done and any looking for some early access (those who don't care about having a low pop server to start with) are welcome to PM me for access. We will be messing with server settings to fine tune the experience and figure out what we need and what we don't need to make it function as intended before releasing this to the public and advertising the server in full force.

So in short: PM me if you want access to the server while we get things polished and enjoy your early access and chance to establish yourself within the community and server before we begin full fledged advertising of the server.

Edited September 25, 2012 by 9103

[Welch (DayZ) 756]

Sounds like the basic "hardcore" server only you made some long-ass explanation of what the game should be like, but isn't.

[9103 9]

Sounds like the basic "hardcore" server only you made some long-ass explanation of what the game should be like, but isn't.

Sounds like you have given up on the game already and are wasting everyone's time. But cool story, bro. If I have already experienced the game play I am describing, then how is that just "wishful thinking"? I know its possible, and I will have it underway in a matter of time... without piss-poor attitude people, such as yourself. But thank you for the response.

[Mos1ey 6301]

Pretty much quit playing lately due to hackers etc., waiting for the standalone. Would probably start playing again for this.

Also, very much FOR the idea of first-person only.

Edited September 25, 2012 by mZLY

[Hetstaine 10852]

Sounds good, there is not enough hardcore servers around these dayz. Coming from locked in pit, no icon, online flight sim servers the first person in arma is like coming out of a small box. I really don't understand how people find it any harder than the usual first person views in fps type games, but that's just me. 3d totally takes away any immersion , especially when i know people get unreal views like looking over walls and around corners. Anyway, will be interested when you get it up and running. :)

[Heiduk 265]

I really don't understand how people find it any harder than the usual first person views in fps type games, but that's just me.

They're pussies, just kidding. :P

PM sent

[9103 9]

Pretty much quit playing lately due to hackers etc., waiting for the standalone. Would probably start playing again for this.

Also, very much FOR the idea of first-person only.

We plan to combat the hacker horde by having the password always on and always changing in rotation with the password being mailed out to ACTIVE community members who are actively playing on the server or engaging on the community forum. Those who drop off will lose access when the server password changes and will have to re-apply or be reactivated to get back in. Also, i'm glad to here you are on board with the settings we plan to utilize. Send me a PM if you want to be notified when the server is ready to roll and I will hook you up with the necessary items to get enrolled and become a part of the community and server!

Sounds good, there is not enough hardcore servers around these dayz. Coming from locked in pit, no icon, online flight sim servers the first person in arma is like coming out of a small box. I really don't understand how people find it any harder than the usual first person views in fps type games, but that's just me. 3d totally takes away any immersion , especially when i know people get unreal views like looking over walls and around corners. Anyway, will be interested when you get it up and running. :)

I'm with you on that! If you're interested, I can PM you the information needed to get enrolled in the community and get access to our forum and server once it's ready. You can kill the time while waiting for the population to grow by engaging with the other members we have established thus far. The server is currently up, but recent updates and changes have been going back and forth and so we are not opening it to total public advertisement as of yet- but I can get you some early access if possible (rare) down times are not an issue for you. We are still tweaking things and considering our options. By all means, feel free to get into the community and start establishing yourself regardless!

They're pussies, just kidding. :P

PM sent

I got your PM- I will be sending you some information on how to get enrolled in the community and be on your way to enjoying our server. Keep in mind this server is new and pop will likely be low and lonely until this picks up- but feel free to engage with all the other members on our forum while we get to work on this.

[tandwan 250]

There are a lot, and I mean a lot of 'hardcore' servers that are currently on the server list so i'm not being rude when I say this ( take it how you want ) but you're not the first nor the last. You rehashed an old idea and the issue is simply that people have tried servers like this and they either worked or they didn't. After 30 years of gaming I have learned one important rule : People think shit sounds great until they try it, then they quickly back pedal and say this 'This is terrible, fuck this.' . There are a lot of games where super - hardcore has been tried and failed miserably and this one does it fairly well.

You want immersion but you spell out things which are not immersion based. Worrying that a sniper is tracking in on you? Man you should be worried about this on EVERY server. No waypoints? Ok fair enough, see above though, it's been done on a lot of different servers. No Crosshairs? Well there goes the chance of anyone using the grenade launcher on the M4A1 Holo but again, this can be overlooked. I'm not sure what you want to be honest because the things you list as wanting off your server are kind of petty.

As for why people bitch about having first person restricted?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_sickness

This is the reason I can only play on servers that have third person. I have severe motion sickness to the point just laying down in the backseat of a moving vehicle causes me to get sick. I CAN play some games but it requires me to take medication in order to stare at the screen. Arma II is one of those games that this hits me fairly hard in, and changing the F.O.V or Head bob does absolutely nothing. Granted, i'm the 1%, but i'm giving an example not fighting for a case here.

All in all, there are servers out there already doing this and some of them are successful and long running (see the SurvivalOps) server so this is just another server that's coming up. If you want to make a server that's new and hasn't been done before then make a server with all russian weapons. The games in Russia, why are there more NATO weapons then Russian? Add new skins to entice clan war players to join your server (players can all dress up as X to show which team they are on) or maybe add vehicles that are military grade that have not been done yet. If you can accomplish this then you will have created something new and exciting that people will want to try over 'Another Hardcore server'.

Good luck all the same.

[noreaster 41]

It all sounds very nice but I can't do 1st person only. Arma's first person is rubbish (opinion) for everything except shooting but I can see why you want it off. Best of luck.

^

[9103 9]

There are a lot, and I mean a lot of 'hardcore' servers that are currently on the server list so i'm not being rude when I say this ( take it how you want ) but you're not the first nor the last. You rehashed an old idea and the issue is simply that people have tried servers like this and they either worked or they didn't. After 30 years of gaming I have learned one important rule : People think shit sounds great until they try it, then they quickly back pedal and say this 'This is terrible, fuck this.' . There are a lot of games where super - hardcore has been tried and failed miserably and this one does it fairly well.

I looked over the list and I noticed there are a lot of "veteran" servers listed but that the majority (save 2) all have 3rd person turned on or some variation of 3rd and Crosshairs and the like turned on. The server that I will be running will be a mercenary difficulty server with all of these turned off. I do not believe there are that many servers running this, as per Day Z commander there are roughly 15-20 Mercenary difficulty servers. Out of those 15-20 nearly all of them have 0 people in them and about 3-4 that had two to four people in them. I would say that this is an area that could use more active servers in. As far as people thinking it sounds great- I hope so.. As far as back pedaling- I hope not... that is all I can do or say. As far as hardcore failing miserably and Day Z being unable to deliver... We will just have to agree to disagree here... I hold hope in the power of a solid community and what it can accomplish... even if a game is broken or not working as intended- a community can do a lot of patch work and make it how it needs to be.

You want immersion but you spell out things which are not immersion based. Worrying that a sniper is tracking in on you? Man you should be worried about this on EVERY server. No waypoints? Ok fair enough, see above though, it's been done on a lot of different servers. No Crosshairs? Well there goes the chance of anyone using the grenade launcher on the M4A1 Holo but again, this can be overlooked. I'm not sure what you want to be honest because the things you list as wanting off your server are kind of petty.

I don't think you are getting the point of my original post... I did not go into full detail with everything that is immersion based because I don't want to put everyone to sleep before they even get into the server... Yes you should be worried about snipers on every server. I'm willing to overlook minor things as far as grenade launchers being wonky on a M4A1 holo for the sake of immersion rather than having a neon green dingle dangle floating in the middle of my screen while im running around... Whats worse for someone who is looking for a immersive experience? You are not sure what I want? I'm not wanting anything specific and I think you are thinking too hard about what I may want personally... The point was to see if making a server with these settings was worth the time and effort and if a community could be formed around the idea.. So far I would say that, Yes, indeed it is worth the time and effort because I have received numerous PM's requesting access to the server.... I would say people are hungry for something different.. and If what I'm doing is nothing new, then I guess all those millions of Hardcore servers out there somehow got overlooked by these people. Besides... My original title of this post saying "true" "hardcore" is a bit deceiving in what I meant for the word.... Realism and Immersion is more along the lines of what we are shooting for here.

I'm avoiding anything being in the game that wouldn't be available to the average joe in the real world... you would not be able to poke your finger on a map and have a wapoint pop up on your HUD telling you which way to go and how far you had to go... You would have to use a compass and figure crap out with geographical clues and landmarks... You wouldn't have crosshairs floating in front of you when you hold your gun up to fire.... You wouldn't be able to separate from your body and see yourself from behind in the third person.... things of this nature I am removing for the sake of realism, not necessarily to be more "hardcore"... Hardcore is the type of player this will attract... not necessarily the setting, itself.

As for why people bitch about having first person restricted?

http://en.wikipedia....Motion_sickness

This is the reason I can only play on servers that have third person. I have severe motion sickness to the point just laying down in the backseat of a moving vehicle causes me to get sick. I CAN play some games but it requires me to take medication in order to stare at the screen. Arma II is one of those games that this hits me fairly hard in, and changing the F.O.V or Head bob does absolutely nothing. Granted, i'm the 1%, but i'm giving an example not fighting for a case here.

Point taken, but as you said- 1%... While you may not enjoy this type of setting- it's shown that many people do. It sucks that you have to go through that in order to enjoy various games and I feel for you. I'm just a man on a mission trying to get this project underway, so pardon me if I shrug off things like this that may not necessarily apply to the masses.

All in all, there are servers out there already doing this and some of them are successful and long running (see the SurvivalOps) server so this is just another server that's coming up. If you want to make a server that's new and hasn't been done before then make a server with all russian weapons. The games in Russia, why are there more NATO weapons then Russian? Add new skins to entice clan war players to join your server (players can all dress up as X to show which team they are on) or maybe add vehicles that are military grade that have not been done yet. If you can accomplish this then you will have created something new and exciting that people will want to try over 'Another Hardcore server'.

I like some of these ideas, but at the moment none of these are critical for what im trying to accomplish... Anyone can wear a custom skin- and I welcome people to if thats their thing... In fact, my own clan has their own "skin" that we have used in the past to be more easily recognized since we do not play with nametags on... I also welcome clans to join our server, whether it be to become rivals or try to claim a piece of land for their own or to join forces... the point of this server is to allow people to make their own way and make a name for themselves... to form a reputation and be what they want to be... Unlike most servers where people come and go and never return and live with no consequences- this server revolves around community. This does not mean that everyone is expected to be carebears and work together... Not by a long shot... We just ask that everyone show due respect to other people on the server... but anything goes in the land of Day Z...

I have been talking to a lot of our players already and they are loving this path... a community based server that allows for people to actually become known for their deeds and either be feared, praised, or revered... We got packs of 3 guys looking to form a mercenary group for hire.. bandit hunters? I do not know yet... We also have people brainstorming ideas for making a form of economy... bartering posts and trade stations... And no, before you ask.. these are not "SAFE" zones.... if you are dumb enough to mark something on a map, then you accept the risk of bandits making a jump on your supply lines....

We also have people contemplating turf warfare... Clans coming into the server and staking claim to cities and areas of the map... But words are one thing... doing is another... So clans start taking over cities... barbed wire fencing, sandbags, tents, etc... and they mark on the world map "SO-&-SOs TURF... TRESPASSERS SHOT ON SIGHT"... What survivor dares enter?... maybe you never do... but maybe you are ballzy and decide to take on this massive fortress with your trusty pliers.. you remove all their barbed wire fencing and throw some frag grenades in their tents and skip off into the sunset..... maybe you get sniped before you even set foot on the streets....

Point is, we are looking for people who want to go about the game in a different mind set... this isnt about mechanics dictating what we can do on our server... its about using what we have and exploring options and giving people things to do other than sit on sniper hill waiting for fresh spawns to pour into town...

Maybe one day we will consider the option of weapons... but I dont think we need to do anything to the vanilla game at this time to achieve this vision... we just need the people willing to make it happen. I guess I have more faith in humanity than most... So bring it on, people.

Good luck all the same.

Thank you! and right back at you!