How Hacking Costs Rocket (Bohemia) Money, AND WHY THAT DOESN'T MATTER (includes reply from Rocket)

[jaws4096 77]

This isn't just another post bitching about hackers. Or, at least that's how I hope it will be viewed.

I realize hackers are a part of the alpha experience. And yes, I'm probably going to buy the standalone no matter how much hacking occurs on the alpha servers. But I think the current level of hacking is bad enough that it has a few important consequences that will negatively impact the standalone game:

1. Any concept of play-balancing during the alpha stage is impossible. Rocket has a million free testers at his disposal, but so long as hacking is so rampant, he isn't getting any useful data about how to properly balance loot, zombie abilities, etc.
   
2. Player interactions aren't genuine. An important part of the final game will be the myriad ways in which characters choose to interact with one another. Those interactions are up to the players, of course, but they are also heavily influenced by the game's design. Dump a bunch of hackers into the mix, and player interactions skew towards the current environment of KoS... with a big gun you didn't earn. Again, the alpha is a wonderful chance to refine the way players interact, but all the data that's being collected is polluted by hacking.
   
3. Many players have become frustrated with hacking, and have quit playing, or don't play as often as they would. Some of these people won't buy the game as a result, which means lost sales. But more likely, these people will just be less enthused about the alpha. They won't participate in discussions, and won't tell their friends about Dayz. This not only results in lost sales when the standalone comes out, but also lost (potentially valuable) input into the alpha.
   

I believe that the enthusiasm over this mod is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for Rocket and for Bohemia. Alpha players need to be managed just like paying customers, because if the devs play their cards right, that's exactly what we will all become. If something is breaking our experience and making the game significantly less fun than it could be, it needs to be fixed as quickly as possible. Taking the approach of, "What do they want, it's a free game?" is just a bad business decision. I'm not saying that's Rocket's approach, but the devs' seeming lack of concern about hacking when they've spoken in public is a big worry, in my opinion.

Edited September 20, 2012 by Jaws4096

[jason_m_perry@hotmail.com 38]

Thing is 100% of Alpha testers are paying customers. We all bought Arma etc. Most of the Alpha testers bought Arma just for DayZ.

[Max Planck 7174]

What do you suggest they do about it? It need to be fixed in the engine, not in the mod. That is why we are all waiting for the standalone.

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/42806-pending-update-build-1724/page__st__940#entry418736

[Taiphoz 95]

Yeah they said a load of times already they cant lock the mod down without breaking tons of other mods, and im sure all those other modders would be pissed if they did that.

I just hope stand alone stamps out the hacks fully.

[jackdee (DayZ) 0]

i bought arma for teh dayz mod and that is it not for anything else, Hackers = WANKERS, yea they have stopped a lot of people playing but on the other hand so haves some of the bad glitches, i personally haven't been able to play for abt 8 weeks now all because i died when i broke my legs at the airport( not sure which one) and my character got corrupted, still not sure if ill buy this tbh as a stand alone game.

[jaws4096 77]

Yeah they said a load of times already they cant lock the mod down without breaking tons of other mods, and im sure all those other modders would be pissed if they did that.

I just hope stand alone stamps out the hacks fully.

Since I'm not a coder, I can't really comment on what should be done about it. It seems like an optional patch would be possible. People who play other mods wouldn't download it. People who play Dayz (who currently outnumber all other mod players and Arma II players combined, by a large margin) would download it.

[motocross 49]

I personally stopped playing months ago, not because I died, im sitting in the woods with a as50 and a l85 and gillie suit, I just know there is no point, because im going to lose all that hard work eventually due to some ungratefully hacking fuck. So I have stopped playing, I will buy the standalone, however I vouch not to play until it is released.

[jaws4096 77]

I personally stopped playing months ago, not because I died, im sitting in the woods with a as50 and a l85 and gillie suit, I just know there is no point, because im going to lose all that hard work eventually due to some ungratefully hacking fuck. So I have stopped playing, I will buy the standalone, however I vouch not to play until it is released.

That's a bummer. I'm sure there are many more like you.

[SystemiK 366]

I personally stopped playing months ago, not because I died, im sitting in the woods with a as50 and a l85 and gillie suit, I just know there is no point, because im going to lose all that hard work eventually due to some ungratefully hacking fuck. So I have stopped playing, I will buy the standalone, however I vouch not to play until it is released.

You are going to lose "all that hard work" due to an eventual database wipe anyhow (tents have already been wiped previously), so it's sixes either way.

[OrLoK 16187]

Hello there

I don't believe that scripters will substantially damage any income for the dev's when the stand alone comes out.

He's (and the rest of the dev's, don't forget there are others) probably got a damn fine idea about what the community wants for the standalone from the vast amount of feedback he has already received to keep him going.

Scripting is more of an issue for the existing players IMHO.

In fact the amount of issues that have been had with the subhuman scum has probably assisted BE and the Dev's to think about a more robust solution.

Rgds

LoK

[sostronk 334]

Hackers excellerated the rate at which players left this game. Now we are down to 70k active users in the last 24hours, down from what was 250k. Hacking probably did cost them money, but only so much. Player base was always going to drop, just not so quickly. How long its taking to develop this game, even small features, is probably costing it alot more than the hacking.

[Max Planck 7174]

Hackers excellerated the rate at which players left this game. Now we are down to 70k active users in the last 24hours, down from what was 250k.

A lot of players have moved to private servers, they don't factor into your numbers.

[dallas 5195]

ArmA was intented for adult or mature players, who could use the engine's openness to easily create user content. If they had known the game's player base would expand to include the feeble minded, who needed cheats to succeed in the game, they'd probably have made it harder to create and inject scripts.

But hey! Who could have known a single beautiful mod like DayZ, would also appeal to people with dolphine IQs?

Edited September 19, 2012 by Dallas

[sostronk 334]

A lot of players have moved to private servers, they don't factor into your numbers.

Alot of those players play on various servers due to bugs/instability etc They are playing on private hives as well as public hives. The numbers are still alot more accurate than Days survived.

[septuscap 42]

A lot of players have moved to private servers, they don't factor into your numbers.

I personally knew upwards of 100 people playing DayZ. Of those, I know of 2 who still play. I don't think I'm an isolated case either, so you can shove your head in the sand if you want, but the 250k -> 70k stat is the only hard # you have. Even a casual glance at the lobby will show utterly vacant servers.

[motocross 49]

ArmA was intented for adult or mature players, who could use the engine's openness to easily create user content. If they had known the game's player base would expand to include the feeble minded, who needed cheats to succeed in the game, they'd probably have made it harder to create and inject scripts.

But hey! Who could have known a single beautiful mod like DayZ, would also appeal to people with dolphine IQs?

Dolphins are smart though? They have sex for pleasure.

[OrLoK 16187]

They have sex for pleasure.

OT.

I dont.

L

[RaysGoodLiquor 93]

What do you suggest they do about it? It need to be fixed in the engine, not in the mod. That is why we are all waiting for the standalone.

http://dayzmod.com/f...940#entry418736

I suggest they visit public hack sites, download, then add the code to battleeye detection. Hacking is a problem in every game, but hacking is a serious problem in this game because the free public hacks can someones go a month without being detected. If an idiotic 14 year old can find them, I would assume the paid employees at Bohemia and Battleye can as well.

[Tatatito 14]

I personally stopped playing months ago, not because I died, im sitting in the woods with a as50 and a l85 and gillie suit, I just know there is no point, because im going to lose all that hard work eventually due to some ungratefully hacking fuck. So I have stopped playing, I will buy the standalone, however I vouch not to play until it is released.

Very similar point as well, mate. Apart from I usually run with a crew and due to ever increasing bugs, problems or what have you with each of their computers (they all have a different bug, one has a receiving then crash every 15 mins, one ragequits on death, one has major graphical issues that are un fix able .. the list goes on) its just me in the woods with a high grade character too paranoid to play for more then 10 minutes without getting hacked.

So I now play on private hives, fresh starts and lots of laughs !

[gambles 234]

All true but I'm willing to take a guess and say that Rocket knows this but doesn't think its a big deal. Or he doesn't realize that people who don't frequent the forums and just tried DayZ and seen the environment and said hell no. These people won't be purchasing the standalone, I know I wouldn't if I didn't frequent the forums.

[jaws4096 77]

I personally knew upwards of 100 people playing DayZ. Of those, I know of 2 who still play. I don't think I'm an isolated case either, so you can shove your head in the sand if you want, but the 250k -> 70k stat is the only hard # you have. Even a casual glance at the lobby will show utterly vacant servers.

Do you think they all quit mainly because of hacking? Or bugs? Boredom? Of they have just moved on to the next game?

[joeoblong@yahoo.com 614]

You know we (co-workers/squad) just had 5 more friends buy arma2 co. Even though we said, "wait the stand alone is coming soon!" It's funny they all just sit in awe of the B.S.'ing around the water cooler and want in. Script bitches be damned... we still find plenty of fun/trouble/idiotic things to brag about. Oh lost that hard earned kit? Plenty of laughs at work when relaying the story! We rib the hell out of each other over this mod. So yeah some have left... still others are joining. Even if it is only for a few months they'll still have a hell of a time as long as you don't let the script bitches ruin it. Insta death you say? I say an opportunity to have a new story to tell!

[Maniacmike (DayZ) 24]

I bought arma2 for DayZ and I knew what playing a mod is like. Mods are very easily hacked.

Not rockets fault over half u people have no clue about Mods and hacks.

Ah well shit happens

[electroban 102]

Ironically you all complain about cheaters but i bet theres atleast 1 cheater thats posted in this thread

[aussiestig 681]

Hence why rocket has his own little community of testers that give him feedback. I for one wouldn't take any feedback from this forum, as there are some mighty stupid people here.