Humanity System - Rocket, have a minute?

[Miyo 1]

Now, I'm not much of a forum rat as you'll see in the top right hand corner, this is my first post here.

I generally prefer spending my time playing DayZ rather than spending the majority of my time on the forums, may that be discussing, arguing and/or behaving like a child (man, dont we all wish we were young again, shoutout for the gramps). How silly of me.

I'm here to hopefully bring forward an effective yet extremely simple solution to the humanity situation at hand. I'm in fear that the game I, myself, as well as many many others have grown to love very much may become ruined in the near future. (Judging by suggestions brought forward by some of you).

So, here we go...

How do we fix this ever growing problem with survivors VS bandits (aka humanity system).

How do we do this without it affecting the game itself?

This is my suggestion.

Implement RED ARM-BANDS for people with low humanity.

Allow me to elaborate.

When you reach a certain level of low humanity (may that be after a single kill?) you instantly get a Red Arm-Band on say, your right arm.

Lets keep this ridiculously simple.

BANDIT PROS:

- Use whatever skin you want. Regardless of what skin you're using, the Red Arm-Band will still be showing. But hardly ruining the effect/look of that particular skin, its just a small arm-band.

- Stealth wont be affected. Your hiding in a bush, under a tree, sneaking up on someone, it doesnt matter. The Red Arm-Band wont show that easily, so this wont take away the enjoyment certain individuals get from doing just that.

- No annoying sounds, say... from flies or crows following you.

SURVIVOR PROS:

- Can easily spot a 'bandit' up close, which could be life changing.

- If you see a player far away (really far away) then binoculars would come very hand, whip them out and check if the player has a Red Arm-Band. (From there the survivor can choose whether to avoid that bandit and/or shoot him. (Obviously if you have a sniper, use that to check). Dont have any binoculars nor a sniper? Tough. Nobody say this game would be easy, this is the pure reason its so loved. Besides, if the player is so far away you cannot hold right click to see his arms... he probably cannot see/catch up to you.

- Makes it so much easier for survivors to group up, help each other and work as a team, if neither of you have a Red Arm-Band, you know your both friendly. This will make survivor encounters more efficient and a lot more frequent, giving teamwork a higher purpose. (Survivors UNITE!) Obviously there will be times when you meet someone without a Red Arm-Band who shoots you in the back, this could be a brand new player who decided he wanted to become a bandit, hello RED ARM-BAND.

There it is, my suggestions towards the never ending problem that is Humanity within DayZ.

This DOESNT affect gameplay nor change the game, in any shape or form, both for survivors and bandits alike. It merely gives survivors a greater chance of spotting a bandits, thus solving the problem with back-stabbing and meeting new people that are like-minded to you.

Whatever the skin, whenever and wherever you spawn, if you have low humanity you'll be greeted with a nice Red Arm-Band! :P

Survivors will know whether a player is a bandit or not with one look at him, may that be up close or far away.

Bandits can keep doing their thing, use any skin they want, sneak up and murder anyone they want, all with a simple Red Arm-Band.

So, thats it. I've probably forgotten to add something I wanted to, but feel free to discuss below and tell me what you think. The whole reason I wrote this is because I feel it wont alter gameplay for anyone. If it were up to me, this wouldnt even be discussed. DayZ is wonderfully brutal and unforgiving.. I could die at any point to a zombie, player or even falling down a 50cm step. THATS what makes this game so great, so popular and so UNIQUE. Simple implementing what I've said above keeps all this intact, but gives honest people (survivors) the opportunity to spot a killer and act accordingly.

Like I said, I'm sure I've forgotten something. But feel free to ask any questions down below.

Rocket, I hope you get a chance to read this. Obviosly my idea can be tweaked, as long as it doesnt CHANGE THE GAME WE LOVE.

Thanks

p.s holy shit.. sorry for novel. FML

EDIT: Felt the need to add... I'm a bandit myself.

[ABORT 5]

I love the idea of arm bands. Maybe not for bandits only, though... because this sort of still gives the bandit a "bandit skin". I think there should be varying colors for varying levels of humanity. In some apocalypse movies I've seen you can usually tell the "cannibals" (read: bandits) from the good people by their appearance. Although I've never experienced an apocalypse myself, I think we'd be able to tell. So yeah, some form of identification system should be implemented.

Edit: with varying colors... it's up to the player to be knowledgeable on what those colors represent.

Edit 2: Maybe the "bandit" armband could get to be a brighter/darker red the more people they kill. I don't know. So if you see a bright/dark red arm band they probably have only killed one person and it could have been in self defense.

[Miyo 1]

I love the idea of arm bands. I think there should be varying colors for varying levels of humanity.

Like I said, my idea can be tweaked. Although adding the colours of the rainbow might not be the best tweak. Lets keep it very simple. If your humanity is very high, perhaps you can be given a Blue Arm-Band etc. Nevertheless, a good response fella, thank you.

[ABORT 5]

I love the idea of arm bands. I think there should be varying colors for varying levels of humanity.

Like I said' date=' my idea can be tweaked. Although adding the colours of the rainbow might not be the best tweak. Lets keep it very simple. If your humanity is very high, perhaps you can be given a Blue Arm-Band etc. Nevertheless, a good response fella, thank you.

[/quote']

Thanks. Your idea is great. And don't worry, I wasn't suggesting the colors of the rainbow. Blue sounds like a great color. Maybe just blue and red? Grey as neutral?

[esaciar 1]

But you wouldn't be stupid enough to wear an armband in real life though?

You may as well tattoo "murderer" across their foreheads.

[rocket 16567]

I read this, the problem is, that requires substantial changes to models. These models are binarized - and would have to be edited. Also, we want to use armbands for factions later, so this would potentially get in the way of that. And I'm not sure, if you're a complete villain, that you would wear an armband?

[zecele 211]

I think its a great idea and by far the best so far

P.S this may sound like a stupid idea but mayby bandits and survivors etc could wear different coloured hats? instead so like a red hat for bandits and green for survivors and grey for neutral.

[Miyo 1]

But you wouldn't be stupid enough to wear an armband in real life though?

Valid point. Hate to break it to you fella, but this is not real life. I know what we're going for is realism, but the real issue is to not affect overall gameplay, giving survivors a 'buff' or anything alongside those lines. The Arm-Bands are merely there to help with players encounting another, especially up-close.

[mikyjax 3]

Humanity system should maybe be totally removed from game.

And It s a survivor speaking.

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=11008

[esaciar 1]

It's better than any concept I've dredged from my mind as of yet Miyo, so I genuinely appreciate your commitment and consideration.

I know it's not real life, but I'm an awful Puritan when it comes to zombie genres.

You've put some tremendous effort into your theory however; that should be applauded.

I have reason to believe that the proposed "heartbeat" dynamic is better however. Just my opinion.

[Miyo 1]

I read this' date=' the problem is, that requires substantial changes to models. These models are binarized - and would have to be edited. Also, we want to use armbands for factions later, so this would potentially get in the way of that.[/quote']

I understand that Rocket, kinda figured you would say that. But atleast discuss it amongst you developers.

"Rocket - And I'm not sure, if you're a complete villain, that you would wear an armband?"

True. But my point here is to NOT affect the gameplay, for survivors and bandits... all the suggestions I've read so do just that or give survivors some kind of 'buff' (advantage over bandits)... in real life, would a person who doesnt kill others magically be giving powers to detect ALL bandits? No...

[aurien 8]

Sounds exactly like the old system with no way of fixing the "I killed an idiot who shot at me, know I'm a bandit" problem.

[Miyo 1]

I have reason to believe that the proposed "heartbeat" dynamic is better however. Just my opinion.

Parts of me completely agree with you. But like I said in that thread itself, that is still a sort of 'buff' for survivor players, the power to magically detect bandits? What if a bandit is camping near a barrack, a group of survivors simple have to run in or close, aim there weapon all around the surroundings.. wait for the heartbeat noise.. and instantly know theres a bandit nearby.. thats a major advantage that bandit players dont get. Slightly unfair.

And thank you for your comment. Appreciate it.

[Kobra (DayZ) 0]

hey that was a good read for a bit but then i got a idea and stopped reading xD

The red arm band is a dead give away why would bandits want this.. Well maybe because it got you into THE SECRET BANDIT CAMP WHERE ONLY BANDIT WEARING ARM BANDERS GET IN whoooo yea you know you want it

edit: guns and prostitutes pls

[Deuzerre 64]

i actually had a similar concept that was erased due to a douchebag hacker.

Basically, it worked on interactions.

Someone new has a grey armband.

Someone not interacting with other people, nor killing nor helping, would get "white" points and eventually get a white armband. "Lone wolf".

Someone helping others (healing, staying around players for set periods of time...) would get green points and get a green (+ red cross) armband. "Sociable"

Someone killing or wounding players would get black points and have a black armband. "Bandit"

Someone killing bandits would get blue points.

+ combinations:

A player with green + black would have had a purple armband and be a "Campfire bandit".

A player with green + blue points would have a blue armband. "Wastelands Cop".

It worked with a point system:

+2 green, -1 black for a bandage/transfusion/painkillers on someone.

+2 black, -2 blue for PK.

+1 blue, -1 black for BK.

+1 white for not wounding/killing/staying over 30 minutes in a 20m radius of players (for over 10 minutes).

Etc...

You got your "colour" after having over 8 points in a category.

And a degradation of points over time.

[esaciar 1]

I have reason to believe that the proposed "heartbeat" dynamic is better however. Just my opinion.

Parts of me completely agree with you. But like I said in that thread itself' date=' that is still a sort of 'buff' for survivor players, the power to magically detect bandits? What if a bandit is camping near a barrack, a group of survivors simple have to run in or close, aim there weapon all around the surroundings.. wait for the heartbeat noise.. and instantly know theres a bandit nearby.. thats a major advantage that bandit players dont get. Slightly unfair.

And thank you for your comment. Appreciate it.

[/quote']

No worries fella.

What if a bandit could take rare drugs to inhibit their anxiety and thus conceal their guilt?

[catgut 3]

I don't see how this is at all different from bandit skins. It would be outwardly changing the appearance of the character in a recognizable and distinct way. Might as well use bandit camo instead, it's a bit more plausible.

[Miyo 1]

Sounds exactly like the old system with no way of fixing the "I killed an idiot who shot at me' date=' know I'm a bandit" problem.[/quote']

If a player starts shooting at you, even though you clearly dont have a Red Arm-Band, then he is an utter and complete idiot. Trust me, those exist in real life too.

You can gain humanity back if that should happen, simply by helping a friend with blood/bandages. I'll say it again, my idea can be tweaked for the better.. with other peoples ideas.

---

I don't see how this is at all different from bandit skins. It would be outwardly changing the appearance of the character in a recognizable and distinct way. Might as well use bandit camo instead' date=' it's a bit more plausible.[/quote']

Really? Cmon ... its clearly different from bandit skins. Before, if you became a bandit, that was it.. bandit skin for you. You cannot use another skin, you cant really hide or stealth well as it was a desert skin... with my idea, it DOESNT affect gameplay, yet gives survivors the chance to see up-close if a player is a bandit, the indication being a small arm band.

[catgut 3]

Really? Cmon ... its clearly different from bandit skins. Before' date=' if you became a bandit, that was it.. bandit skin for you. You cannot use another skin, you cant really hide or stealth well as it was a desert skin... with my idea, it DOESNT affect gameplay, yet gives survivors the chance to see up-close if a player is a bandit, the indication being a small arm band.[/quote']

What you're saying is that the only difference was that the bandit skin itself was poor for camouflage. That's a problem with the skin, not the actual idea. The armband idea would affect the game in exactly the same way as the bandit skin, in that you would be able to see from a distance who can't be trusted. If a bandit skin were used that wasn't desert camo, it would have the same effect.

It's the same idea with a coat of paint.

[Delta Smoke 01 765]

A nice idea but it seems rocket is already ahead of you on this one mate :)

As for the guy who wanted red and blue hats that's just crazy talk. Why not have a flashing blue ambulance light on our heads as well ! Sorry man but that would make everyone stand out literally like a sore thumb and only make the pvp situation worse.

[Zakificus 10]

Just my two cents being thrown in, but I think the tension of "is this a bandit or a survivor" is a huge part of player interactions. Despite being more subtle, this still HUGELY affects how you interact with people, and that tension is totally lost.

I personally don't think any solution that involves the equivalent of "Hey I killed people... well I should make sure everyone I meet knows that" will be a consequence without punishment.

Rocket's 'crows in the sky' idea is still my favorite suggestion. It's subtle enough that when you're in town, and you see birds overhead you don't know who is the bandit right away. This still leaves some tension of "who am I dealing with, there is a bandit close but this might not be him." And if fits realistic requirements too. As he said, crows are among the smartest birds and it is possible they'd realize following a particular person keeps leading them to food. It even solves the 'forced-self-proclamation of bandit-hood'

Lastly, the crows idea leaves room for surprises since it isn't a straight out give-away. For example: "I've been running around with this guy for a while now, he seems nice... wait... are those crows following us....FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!"

[sergio (DayZ) 19]

I read this' date=' the problem is, that requires substantial changes to models. These models are binarized - and would have to be edited. Also, we want to use armbands for factions later, so this would potentially get in the way of that. And I'm not sure, if you're a complete villain, that you would wear an armband?

[/quote']

bandits should wear a "face mask" to not be recognized (in the real world, you would see their faces and think: hey, this is the killer!)

[Zoop 343]

So basically a smaller bandit 'skin'?

Neeext.

[DemonGroover 8836]

I think a Survivor is more likely to visually show he is friendly rather than a bandit proclaiming himself a killer.

[tillthelast (DayZ) 0]

"is this a bandit or a survivor" is a huge part of player interactions.

interaction? what interaction? with everyone having the same skin' date=' no one asks are you friendly anymore, you do have the one little kid that ask " any friendly in cherno" on almost every server. Seems as if everyone is shoot on sight. I feel that there is no more communication in the game.

As to the idea i like the idea alot, but will not work, there is no common ground with bandits/survivors. Bandits dont want to be known, and survivors want to see the bandits.

Whatever way it goes i like that game and will probably play for a long time, but will continue to kill on sight if not in my teamspeak.

[hr']

I think a Survivor is more likely to visually show he is friendly rather than a bandit proclaiming himself a killer.

But you are still gonna get the people like Zoop that will say that is still a skin and bandits wont have one.