Server Ban for AS50 TWS: Debate

[jBrick 116]

You get a day off our server for having an AS50 TWS that we do not witness you spawning in.

[agippo 37]

I think its unfair to ban a player for having an illegal weapon. Not everyone reads the forums, and finds out what it dodgey and what is legit. In fact the game would be a damn sight more realistic if their were not detailed guides on every weapon and its damage and players had to work that stuff out for themselves.

I have no understanding of how much power admins have, but I think a solution to this would be to strip away any "non approved" weapons or gear from players that enter a server. Then people would get into servers, but would have any illegal gear removed from their character. This would be a massive disincentive to hack, and it would also mean hacked gear would stay off "clean" servers.

[johan (DayZ) 21]

Kick said owners after, say 30 sec, with a message telling them to remove the items? That way they get time to remove the items if they want to play on said server? Or is this unfeasable? (No, I admit I am not an admin of any server.) Just thinking since there are always a bunch of people who don't register to forums or use any third party sites, believe it or not, but in all the games I've played I always keep finding people who are not involved in any social media or are knowledgeable in a lot of tools that can help out.

Maybe it would encourage people to just drop the guns but still keep people playing on various servers?

[Zeratu 0]

I usualy play on uk135 and the admins actualy let know the player that has the weapon to drop it if not they will get banned. I consider it a good ideea to let them know and they have 2 options:

1. they log out and try their luck on another server.

2. they drop the weapon on a zombie and hide their body.

[chrithu 59]

A clear Yes from me.

All the rationalizing (G36C basically is the same as M4SD, AS50 TWS once was legit, yada yada yada) means simply nothing. The weapons are not in the loot tables on purpose -> you're not supposed to have them -> most people carrying them know it and they carry and use it anyways because they know that people playing "fair" and "clean" can not get it and thus the weapon gives an advantage. Using "illegal" items in order to get an advantage over others to me is one of the many definitions of cheating. Thus carrying and using such items in my view is a kickable/banable behaviour.

As far as I have seen some servers even already kick/ban in an automated fashion when you use "illegal" items and they mostly warn you beforehand with a note that the weapon is illegal and a request that you drop it within 5 minutes (which of course prevents the kick/ban if you follow the request). This is maybe the best way to handle it. If your antihack measure catch someone carrying/using illegal items warn them about it with a request to drop the item. If they don't follow and/or try to reconnect after a kick with that weapon ban them.

Edited August 29, 2012 by 31R0Y

[melted349 43]

I think its unfair to ban a player for having an illegal weapon. Not everyone reads the forums, and finds out what it dodgey and what is legit. In fact the game would be a damn sight more realistic if their were not detailed guides on every weapon and its damage and players had to work that stuff out for themselves.

I have no understanding of how much power admins have, but I think a solution to this would be to strip away any "non approved" weapons or gear from players that enter a server. Then people would get into servers, but would have any illegal gear removed from their character. This would be a massive disincentive to hack, and it would also mean hacked gear would stay off "clean" servers.

Very true, and as it's been mentioned before, all of these weapons were legit at one point. It wasn't until later that they were removed from spawning into the game.

Kick said owners after, say 30 sec, with a message telling them to remove the items? That way they get time to remove the items if they want to play on said server? Or is this unfeasable? (No, I admit I am not an admin of any server.) Just thinking since there are always a bunch of people who don't register to forums or use any third party sites, believe it or not, but in all the games I've played I always keep finding people who are not involved in any social media or are knowledgeable in a lot of tools that can help out.

Maybe it would encourage people to just drop the guns but still keep people playing on various servers?

I like the idea of a warning, then kick, then ban.

A clear Yes from me.

All the rationalizing (G36C basically is the same as M4SD, AS50 TWS once was legit, yada yada yada) means simply nothing. The weapons are not in the loot tables on purpose -> you're not supposed to have them -> most people carrying them know it and they carry and use it anyways because they know that people playing "fair" and "clean" can not get it and thus the weapon gives an advantage. Using "illegal" items in order to get an advantage over others to me is one of the many definitions of cheating. Thus carrying and using such items in my view is a kickable/banable behaviour.

As far as I have seen some servers even already kick/ban in an automated fashion when you use "illegal" items and they mostly warn you beforehand with a note that the weapon is illegal and a request that you drop it within 5 minutes (which of course prevents the kick/ban if you follow the request). This is maybe the best way to handle it. If your antihack measure catch someone carrying/using illegal items warn them about it with a request to drop the item. If they don't follow and/or try to reconnect after a kick with that weapon ban them.

Again, I agree with a warning, then kick, then ban.

[andreasb 45]

Let me just say this.

1) If Rocket really wanted them gone, they :

a) Wouldnt save to hive

B) Automaticly removed on hive. (Like a db cleanup process)

2) Rocket has stated that you wont be banned for using/having a hacked item. Many like to try that "He meant globally", but I didnt see him specify that anywhere. Thus: If you ban for that, you are breaking DayZ rules.

Now, let me just say:

IN a perfect world, you wouldnt even be able to spawn it.

In a half perfect world you would be allowed to kick them. (Never ban, cause it aint cheating/hacking).

In this world, you simply arent allowed to ban or kick. Anyone doing so is breaking dayZ rules, and should be blacklisted.

[chrithu 59]

In this world, you simply arent allowed to ban or kick. Anyone doing so is breaking dayZ rules, and should be blacklisted.

How much is it worth to be right when it's foreseeable that soonish noone will be left to care about it.

The way I see it (also keeping in mind that focus will shift more and more over to the standalone) the team might come to the point where the mod cannot be supported in a satisfactory fashion (if that isn't already the case). At the latest at that point forks like Lingor and small non-hive communities with more admin-power (kick/ban as see fit, use additional anti-hack measures, passworded servers) will take over.

Personally I think if the problems with "illegal" weapons and hacking in general cannot be solved within the next months by both improving detection/prevention and giving admins more rights and means to handle the problem, wee will see a serious exodus of players away from the official hive servers towards non-hive and lingor communities.

This might or might not impact the success of the standalone in the end. Opinions once built up ar hard to change, so rocket and his team should pay attention to how they deal with the admins helping them to run the game.

Of course that's just my 2 Cents, which do not carry any weight ;).

[--------------- 24]

Let me just say this.

1) If Rocket really wanted them gone, they :

a) Wouldnt save to hive

B) Automaticly removed on hive. (Like a db cleanup process)

2) Rocket has stated that you wont be banned for using/having a hacked item. Many like to try that "He meant globally", but I didnt see him specify that anywhere. Thus: If you ban for that, you are breaking DayZ rules.

Now, let me just say:

IN a perfect world, you wouldnt even be able to spawn it.

In a half perfect world you would be allowed to kick them. (Never ban, cause it aint cheating/hacking).

In this world, you simply arent allowed to ban or kick. Anyone doing so is breaking dayZ rules, and should be blacklisted.

This is the best post out of all of them ....

[soldier45 0]

Why do you always see the only choice in banning ppl? Create a script that checks the chars of "illegal" loot and remove all loot from char simply, get the screen of the player black for 1 minute with the message "You had illegal content, so i have removed all your gear". <_<

Pro: The Char stays alive, possible noobs will be know, what they have done wrong and the player, who simply picked up the illegal content can play again on this servers without banning and all this shit.

I must whine every morning, when i see 10 new threads with spamming bans, cheats and hacking. Its so easy to control the server with some scripts for fairness play. I have seen some servers, which run the lootcheck script and a antiteleportscript; its easy too: checks if the players goes to another coord in long range (example 300m in 2 seconds; a chopper will never be so fast [in Dayz :P ]) and then let the script do their job: autokick. B)

Since these Servers run with this 2 little scripts, they had no problems with cheats, hacks and banwhining. Implenting this in the mod itself would help stop this spams and disscusisson immedialty and make the mod much safer i think. My opinion.

Sorry for grammar and language, but i think the most of you can understand this spam. :rolleyes:

[ganjademon 51]

Soldier, you seem to think I have more power than I do....Admins cant do things like that.

We are limited to Warning Kicking or Banning.

I am not allowed to upload things of my own, so I will carry on banning the CHEATS, yes you are a cheat if you use a hacked weapon.

If Rocket wants to blacklist my server then I cant stop him, but thats one less place for all you freeloaders to come and play, and what happens when he shuts down most of them? Oh look, you cried and cried about the rules and now you have nothing to play because all the admins got bored of your crying and were fed up of paying money for skill-less kids who cant play games for shit to come along and hack then cry that they got banned unfairly.

LEARN TO PLAY, if you need a hacked weapon you are just crap and should go back to Hello Kitty, real games are not for people like you.

[enforcer1975 1111]

There is the unwritten rule of not cheating / exploiting and/or getting the upper hand on other players in other ways that a normal way....you knew it was hacked, you knew it was bad, what is there to complain about?

And because it's unwritten it seems nobody cares...actually it is common sense among gamers not to cheat in MP games.

Edited August 30, 2012 by Enforcer

[malcon 8]

Lol again a topic. And now AS50 TWS. I find every day hacked weapons. Let rocket work on a solution. Because he kan just edit and then the hacked weapons are gone. And if u ban because a player find a hackt weapon u lose the right of your server..

Just play and stop complaining about every stuff what wrong. It's stil in alpha and its stil a mod not a working game. So man up and play the game how it is now. And if there is a cheater leave and go to a nother server.

[khalimerot 76]

[tet5uo (DayZ) 22]

Lol again a topic. And now AS50 TWS. I find every day hacked weapons. Let rocket work on a solution. Because he kan just edit and then the hacked weapons are gone. And if u ban because a player find a hackt weapon u lose the right of your server..

Just play and stop complaining about every stuff what wrong. It's stil in alpha and its stil a mod not a working game. So man up and play the game how it is now. And if there is a cheater leave and go to a nother server.

Lol someone's scared to lose his tent full of AS50 TWS.

[malcon 8]

No i am no

Lol someone's scared to lose his tent full of AS50 TWS.

Why i dont care about those weapons. I like to play more with the real dayz weapons. And if i need a weapon like the as50 tws il go to 3000 other servers that have them. lol

[Loque 13]

I am adding a message to our server that if someone joins with a hacked weapon and stays on the server for longer than 2~ minutes I am going to add them to our banlist:

"If you are joining with a hacked weapon (AS50 TWS / LRR etc...) and you stay for longer than 2 minutes you will be added to our banlist and possibly reported"

I know people could pick it up by mistake, but I would rather anyone with these guns is not on our server. If I could filter its usage, even better (IE. when someone uses it they are turned into a pig and teleported to the nearest player [w00ty]).

[melted349 43]

Soldier, you seem to think I have more power than I do....Admins cant do things like that.

We are limited to Warning Kicking or Banning.

I am not allowed to upload things of my own, so I will carry on banning the CHEATS, yes you are a cheat if you use a hacked weapon.

If Rocket wants to blacklist my server then I cant stop him, but thats one less place for all you freeloaders to come and play, and what happens when he shuts down most of them? Oh look, you cried and cried about the rules and now you have nothing to play because all the admins got bored of your crying and were fed up of paying money for skill-less kids who cant play games for shit to come along and hack then cry that they got banned unfairly.

LEARN TO PLAY, if you need a hacked weapon you are just crap and should go back to Hello Kitty, real games are not for people like you.

Actually admins use to have the power to check player's coords. Not so much anymore since the latest updates and coords being stripped from the logs. But I think player coords should be kept in the logs for this reason, so scripts can be made to check for teleporting. Keep the vehicles, tents, and other items coords out, I know some admins were abusing this and using it find gear and vehicles on their servers. But the two things you could do with a player's coords in the logs is check for teleporting, and if you feel like being an a-hole you could used the collective data to create a heat map. Kinda off topic, but admins at one time did have the capability of creating scripts to check for teleporting. Now we don't, or least not that I'm aware of.

I am adding a message to our server that if someone joins with a hacked weapon and stays on the server for longer than 2~ minutes I am going to add them to our banlist:

"If you are joining with a hacked weapon (AS50 TWS / LRR etc...) and you stay for longer than 2 minutes you will be added to our banlist and possibly reported"

I know people could pick it up by mistake, but I would rather anyone with these guns is not on our server. If I could filter its usage, even better (IE. when someone uses it they are turned into a pig and teleported to the nearest player [w00ty]).

Possibly reported? Lol what are you going to report? Because unless the player spawned the weapon themselves, they've done nothing wrong. Part of the reason I started this debate is because be the current rules, server admins that ban players based on them having an AS50 TWS in their inventory are in the wrong. As a server admin I can perfectly justify the kick/ban, but when it comes down to the rules, a player can carry and use an AS50 TWS without being banned, and a server cannot kick/ban a player on the assumption of hacking. Meaning that if you're going to kick/ban a player, you're suppose to have logs to prove they hacked, ie spawned that AS50 TWS into your server.

And I like how you wish you could turn that player into a pig and teleport them to the nearest player. Cuz that makes sense. You're upset that a player uses a weapon that was spawned in (likely not by them due to the new script detections), but your response would be to "cheat" and screw that player over hardcore. What if that nearest player doesn't kill the player pig? Then they are stuck as a pig forever?

[AADiC 182]

Let me just say this.

1) If Rocket really wanted them gone, they :

a) Wouldnt save to hive

B) Automaticly removed on hive. (Like a db cleanup process)

2) Rocket has stated that you wont be banned for using/having a hacked item. Many like to try that "He meant globally", but I didnt see him specify that anywhere. Thus: If you ban for that, you are breaking DayZ rules.

Now, let me just say:

IN a perfect world, you wouldnt even be able to spawn it.

In a half perfect world you would be allowed to kick them. (Never ban, cause it aint cheating/hacking).

In this world, you simply arent allowed to ban or kick. Anyone doing so is breaking dayZ rules, and should be blacklisted.

Negative. It is common sense that if the weapon/vehicle does not spawn in the game it is not allowed to be used regardless of how you obtained it. With your interpretation of what rocket said, Friend A with a bypass could spawn in a plethora of high powered weapons (RPG's and such)/vehicles(Tanks and so forth). Friend B could then take possession of them and proceed to destroy everyone on the server, and the SA could nothing about it???? Common sense says the SA warn the player, if they don't respond they remove them.

Our server has been warning people with the illegal weapons to drop them or be kicked. If they return with the weapon, they are banned. Server is still going, no blacklist.

[andreasb 45]

They are just as bad for using them.

No they arent.

[AADiC 182]

No they arent.

They are cheating and have an unfair advantage over players who play legit.

[andreasb 45]

I am adding a message to our server that if someone joins with a hacked weapon and stays on the server for longer than 2~ minutes I am going to add them to our banlist:

"If you are joining with a hacked weapon (AS50 TWS / LRR etc...) and you stay for longer than 2 minutes you will be added to our banlist and possibly reported"

I know people could pick it up by mistake, but I would rather anyone with these guns is not on our server. If I could filter its usage, even better (IE. when someone uses it they are turned into a pig and teleported to the nearest player [w00ty]).

Reported to WHO? Its already been stated that YOU CANNOT ban/kick for this! STOP being a fucking admin abuser!

[andreasb 45]

Negative. It is common sense that if the weapon/vehicle does not spawn in the game it is not allowed to be used regardless of how you obtained it. With your interpretation of what rocket said, Friend A with a bypass could spawn in a plethora of high powered weapons (RPG's and such)/vehicles(Tanks and so forth). Friend B could then take possession of them and proceed to destroy everyone on the server, and the SA could nothing about it???? Common sense says the SA warn the player, if they don't respond they remove them.

Our server has been warning people with the illegal weapons to drop them or be kicked. If they return with the weapon, they are banned. Server is still going, no blacklist.

Scenario:

Player A spawns a weapons crate. Player B goes and take an AS50TWS.

Player A can be banned, you CANT touch player B. All you can do is tell him you think he should put it down.

These are the rules layed down for DayZ server hosters.. Follow them or get the fuck out of the hosting role!

[andreasb 45]

They are cheating and have an unfair advantage over players who play legit.

BULLSHIT... What kind of advantage does an G36 give? None whatsoever.

I do agree the AS50 TWS gives an advantage, but theres not a thing we can do about it under the current ruleset.

[AADiC 182]

BULLSHIT... What kind of advantage does an G36 give? None whatsoever.

I do agree the AS50 TWS gives an advantage, but theres not a thing we can do about it under the current ruleset.

That quote by Rocket is talking about a global ban, not a server ban. I'll say it again, IT IS COMMON SENSE. For someone to say that just because a player didn't script the stuff in they can't be banned defies common sense. Any SA that cares about their server and the players on it would NOT allow someone to continue playing using a weapon/vehicle that is NOT IN THE GAME.

We will continue to warn players to drop the weapon, and if they don't they will be kicked, if they return with the scripted weapon they will be removed from the server. <----That is what a GOOD SA does, the bad ones allow the player to continue on.

If you want to test out your theory of a SA being blacklisted for banning someone who is knowingly using a scripted in weapon/vehicle, come to our server and test that out.

Edited August 30, 2012 by AADiC