Why you need a tk penalty. A game is not real life. In a game murder = Fun

[baleur 0]

You can't make a game 100% realistic.

Because in a game NOBODY has their life on the line.

NOBODY has to face the real trauma of MURDERING another human being.

They are just pixels in the distance, who cares if they die? :sleepy: :heart:

Also there is a massive pre-pubertal playerbase that is under the false impression that irl people would just turn around and murder eachother for a can of baked beans.

This would not happen. The vast majority of people in this world have never killed a single person, nor have the desire to do so. This is why our society works, this is why economy works. This is why you don't have murder sprees in the streets irl every weekend when someone gets drunk. This is why knowing someone that actually got murdered is a very rare occurance irl.

Quite a few scientific sociological studies have shown that not only animals, but also humans, always strive to work together as it is an evolutionary requirement for prolonged survival.

This is why deer don't murder eachother to get the next patch of grass to themselves, or why a pack of wolves dont kill their 'friends' to get the new freshly killed deer for themselves.

Cuz they'd be fucked from that point on, all alone.

This is something many of you will disagree on, and you will use the old myth "human nature" argument, that human nature is to destroy and be awful. Something which also is just a myth, since the vast majority of people in real life are neither murderers nor murder victims.

Warfare is a good argument, but again, the reality is much simpler.

War between nations is declared by a handful of psychopathic powerhungry individuals in power, not by the general majority of the population.

This is why democratic nations never wage war against eachother.

The vast majority of people in this world don't kill, and when they do it is by being part of an army as their 'job' after one of the minority in power (psychopaths) arrange a war.

Someone lying about their taxes or a soccer mom that cheated on her husband doesn't equal them to being a murderer upon the first sight of a zombie. :angel:

END POINT ABOUT GAMEPLAY;

You can not have a 100% realistic survival game because killing another player is no big deal, since it never is a big deal because it is JUST A GAME.

You must have artificial limitations and 'supernatural punishments' for killing fellow players.

This is a game, and this is the internet. People are psychopathic murderers on the internet and in games, because it is NOT REAL LIFE.

There is NO PUNISHMENT, there is NO MORALE, NO REMORSE.

This is why, as much as i love this game and how hardcore it is, there must be some form of player-killing punishment or downside. Perhaps announce the killer's location on the map of all other players for 5min. Or perhaps cause him to lose some sort of stat that impairs his aiming, hunger/thirst or causes him to be in a constant shaky annoying sense of panic/frenzy. :s

There must be some penalty because this is never going to simulate real life, this is a game and there is no reason why players should be kind to eachother. There is no penalty, no morale and no emotional baggage to murdering eachother in a game. Therefor there is no question that people will be arseholes in a game. They have no reason not to be.

[Sadiro 2]

cool..

[Hawk24 94]

You must have artificial limitations and 'supernatural punishments' for killing fellow players.

nope.avi

There is NO PUNISHMENT, there is NO MORALE, NO REMORSE.

Welcome to the Zombie apocalypse

Sandbox means no artificial limitations to your own actions, deal with it

If you want PUNISHMENT, MORALE and REMORSE, build your own little police force and hunt bandits to bring them to justice

[omacaco 0]

Rocket has already said that this kinda thing won't happen in a prohibitive manner. Though he does have an idea for humanity that he's gonna be implementing later so we'll just have to wait and see.

Your argument about never having the desire to murder anyone else no matter what is pretty invalid, considering the setting of the game isn't modern day rat race new york, it's the zombie apocalypse. If the world was reduced to ashes and the survival of myself and the people I care about depended upon the can of beans that you are holding, you best believe I'll kill you and take it.

[Zoop 343]

Jesus. Do we really need ANOTHER thread on this?

What's the count at now? 20? 30?

[omacaco 0]

Jesus. Do we really need ANOTHER thread on this?

What's the count at now? 20? 30?

I'm not defending this (though I find myself doing it some times) but people believe if they start a new thread they will get the attention that they deserve for their new and unique view, or opinion that no one has thought of before; if they post in an already existing on-topic thread, no one will see their genius ideas.

[trig 1]

This game gives you a chance to set your own goals.

If your goal is to kill everyone, you can. And take your chances.

If your goal is to help everyone, you can. And take your chances.

If your goal is to get all the top gear, you can. And take your chances.

My new goal for instance is to run around unarmed, just for shits and giggles, steal enough to survive and try not to get shot or eaten. Why? Cause I find it even more of an adrenaline rush to see how long I survive in an apocalyptic world without any means of defending myself.

Imagine this...say noone ever PKs you, and you get a nice group of people to run with, and you loot places and kill zombies together, and you get all the best gear, and are fed, healthy and taken care of, and can eventually clear out entire towns with your gang of mates...wouldn't you get tired of it in a few days?

I mean, I still think being a bandit is the most cowardly thing you can be in this game, why I do everything else, except shoot at people. Now I'll try not even shooting at zombies lol.

[feriluce 2]

Its kinda interesting to see how many people think that if the apocalypse were to happen then everyone would immediately b-line for the nearest gun and shoot everything that moves.

[zanarias 3]

Your penalty for being a bandit is exposing your position to other bandits whenever you kill someone.

If you get shot, it's your fault, simple as that. That's the only thing that makes sense at the end of the world.

[stilton 14]

Its kinda interesting to see how many people think that if the apocalypse were to happen then everyone would immediately b-line for the nearest gun and shoot everything that moves.

Maybe they dont..

Maybe they realise they're not at a zombie apocalypse reenactment....

Reenactments are that way --> Thats where people wear silly hats and dresses and fire muskets loaded with nothing at... nothing right?

MAYBE.. They realise they're playing a computer game and the most fun they can have is to deny you any.

Maybe. You mad.

[Also +1 to the guy who runs around with nothing. Thats balls of steel' date= even i wouldnt curb stomp you.. Well, maybe an ankle shot. ]

[feriluce 2]

Its kinda interesting to see how many people think that if the apocalypse were to happen then everyone would immediately b-line for the nearest gun and shoot everything that moves.

Maybe they dont..

Maybe they realise they're not at a zombie apocalypse reenactment....

Reenactments are that way --> Thats where people wear silly hats and dresses and fire muskets loaded with nothing at... nothing right?

MAYBE.. They realise they're playing a computer game and the most fun they can have is to deny you any.

Maybe. You mad.

[Also +1 to the guy who runs around with nothing. Thats balls of steel' date= even i wouldnt curb stomp you.. Well, maybe an ankle shot. ]

What the balls are you talking about? I'm talking about the people who say "Lol, if it was the zombie apocalypse, like everyone would like just kill eachother." That clearly wouldn't be how it would go down.

[trig 1]

You wanna talk real life psychology of what happens, think of New Orleans post-hurricane.

Only with zombies.

[Zoop 343]

I'm not defending this (though I find myself doing it some times) but people believe if they start a new thread they will get the attention that they deserve for their new and unique view' date=' or opinion that no one has thought of before; if they post in an already existing on-topic thread, no one will see their genius ideas.

[/quote']

Yeah, I guess. My only problem is that these people don't actually bring anything new to the table. It's all just the same rehashed arguments we've heard time and again.

What the balls are you talking about? I'm talking about the people who say "Lol' date=' if it was the zombie apocalypse, like everyone would like just kill eachother." That clearly wouldn't be how it would go down.

[/quote']

How would you know? Have you lived through a zombie apocalypse yet?

[Alex988 9]

i would work together with others just to kill others for beans

[stilton 14]

What the balls are you talking about? I'm talking about the people who say "Lol' date=' if it was the zombie apocalypse, like everyone would like just kill eachother." That clearly wouldn't be how it would go down.

[/quote']

And im saying.. That's an excuse to fuck with you and your shit.

I could dress it up with 'They are roleplaying the escaped convicts that made it out when the power went down and now they're running amok... blah'

But no, they're just people, trolling a game, on the internets..

Who gives a shit what their backstory is to justify their playstyle..

And indeed.. as someone else said, how the fuck would you know eh -- from all your real life previous experience working at the zombie outbreak centre? RITE?

No.

What the BAWLS.

[nerfed 8]

Not quite.

A lot of people would kill if they'd be able to just get away with it scot free, as is the case in Day Z. There's no reason not to kill; you get to loot the people you kill, and you get away with it as well (unless you take on multiple people).

In real life, crime is penalized heavily, so the temptation of committing crime is far lower.

Without laws and proper law enforcement, people all over the place would simply take what they want, when they want. Such is the case in Day Z.

[viral187 2]

TO THE OP:

No.

[Redrick (DayZ) 72]

Roll with the punches for now, or just outright avoid other players. I know it sucks when literraly 90% of people you come across shoot you on sight, but give it a month or two when humanity is re-introduced in a proper way.

[trichome (DayZ) 198]

No NO NO! people can be jack asses DEAL WITH IT! Either avoid them or kill them or befriend them if it makes you feel any better!

[lucas78 0]

The original poster explained the situation quite correctly and with logic; personally, I agree with him to a certain extent. Still, I hope that whatever artificial measure is put in place to limit total freedom of killing *without any repercussion* (which is not right as it is implemented at the moment), will not have an influence on the sandbox nature of the game (otherwise we'll start to see "PvE only" cities/areas and other horrible stuff lke that).

[red62 9]

Personally, i'd probably snipe somebody if I was in that state.

Also OP, are you legitimately gay? Whats up with all the rainbows?

[tolya 1]

Also there is a massive pre-pubertal playerbase that is under the false impression that irl people would just turn around and murder eachother for a can of baked beans.

Bring them on. I actually for once like a game where I have to be careful when approaching a different player. And everytime I got killed' date=' it was due to my own tactical mistake in mishandling the situation, whether I faced a survivor, a bandit or a COD child.

This would not happen. The vast majority of people in this world have never killed a single person, nor have the desire to do so. This is why our society works, this is why economy works. This is why you don't have murder sprees in the streets irl every weekend when someone gets drunk. This is why knowing someone that actually got murdered is a very rare occurance irl.

Murder is rare because we have deterrence policies and policing agencies. You, presumably, live in one of the first world countries where murder is pretty much rare. And actually, history and presence proves you WRONG.

1) Hutu/Tutsi massacre in Rwanda,

2) 11th century invasion of North Africa by Bedouin tribes turned the place into a desert (literally),

3) Ever heard of genocide in the former Yugoslavia? When Serbs started slaughtering muslims? Right now there isn't a village in Bosnia/Herzegovina where the cemetery isn't half the size of the village. Hell, there are cemeteries in Sarajevo that are placed under the freaking bridges for the lack of other available places. One entire football stadium has been converted into a cemetery, around 5000 people were massacred there

4) Massacre of polish officers in Katyn forest

5) tons of other stuff

So please do not tell me, that humans strive to cooperate for better good. Humans form groups to have a better fighting chance against other groups. We are savage species, really.

The only real difference that matters in DayZ is the number of players and communication problems, so that the people don't naturally merge into groups. That still happens though - friends team up (even to hunt other survivors!), it just requires a little bit more hassle.

Quite a few scientific sociological studies have shown that not only animals, but also humans, always strive to work together as it is an evolutionary requirement for prolonged survival.

May I have a source of such a study?

This is why deer don't murder eachother to get the next patch of grass to themselves, or why a pack of wolves dont kill their 'friends' to get the new freshly killed deer for themselves.

If you look at how pack animals work, you will learn that it is not uncommon for packs of wolves to fight each other over terrain/prey. Hell, even lemurs and praire dogs do that. And also consider the amount of infighting - everyone in the pack can challenge a member of the higher status. Beta wolves can challenge alpha wolves for control of the pack, Gamma's can try to become beta's etc.

Again, the only difference here is that there are no big organized groups in DayZ. At least not on the daily basis, because if you run into an organized clan, you are pretty much screwed.

This is something many of you will disagree on, and you will use the old myth "human nature" argument, that human nature is to destroy and be awful. Something which also is just a myth, since the vast majority of people in real life are neither murderers nor murder victims.

Strawman.

Human nature, similarly to nature of other animals, is to survive and propagate their genes to the next generation. We live in controlled societies (well, most of the people playing this game do), where individual/group needs are handled in a mostly non-violent way. We go to work, buy food, have children without having to chop off the head of the guy from the next village to steal his chickens. This hasn't (and isn't) always so, just look at the more impoverished regions.

Warfare is a good argument, but again, the reality is much simpler.

War between nations is declared by a handful of psychopathic powerhungry individuals in power, not by the general majority of the population.

This is bullshit. Your theory is simply false. Just look at what happened in Germany in the mid-war period, starting from 1918 to 1939. And that is really a very drastic example. If your theory that a "single psychopath could lead an entire country of normal people to war" would be true, then humanity would be in the state of constant warfare, since there is no shortage of psychopaths in every country. Hitler was a catalyst, he would never happened if Germany wasn't literally squeezed dry by France and other victors. Hitler did push Germany to war, but the times were desperate - massive reparations that the country paid for losing the first world war resulted in food shortages, unemployment and rampant inflation. Just take a history book, it's all there.

This is why democratic nations never wage war against eachother.

The vast majority of people in this world don't kill, and when they do it is by being part of an army as their 'job' after one of the minority in power (psychopaths) arrange a war.

Oh, so I see. So USA invading Iraq didn't happen? So greek democratic city states never waged war on each other?

Dude, I know that your biggest problem is the chemistry test tomorrow and whether your girlfriend is screwed by the quarterback of the football team, but do not extrapolate your own care-free (care-bear?) life to what is actually happening in the less fortunate parts of the world. Start studying history. Social studies are a fascinating subject too.

[NxMt 0]

words

I' date=' for one, actually like that other players can freely kill everybody else. For me, it's a test of wits and skill. When I escape from a bandit ambush or kill a bandit I, as a player, get the satisfaction of being better is some way than the guy who attacked me. If I get killed, it's entirely my fault (there are exceptions such as spawn-camping, but I'm not talking exploit-wise here). Due to the sandbox nature of the mod, I could've made a million better decisions then the one that lead to my death. But I made the wrong decision, and [b']that in itself is my punishment (this applies to bandits also).

I do not see the need to police murderous behavior in the game via some gameplay mechanism. There is nothing stopping you from role-playing as a security force / police force. Just use your creativity, get a few mates/volunteers from the forum, plan where to set your base, farm some proper loot and use direct chat to ask about bandit locations. Sure it's harder than just pressing a magic server button that says "PENALIZE BANDITZ LOLZ" but that's the whole point of Day Z - the player is not only the player, but also a real part of the game.

Look how, for example, EVE Online did it. Instead of arranging the in-game economy via artificial templates, the devs gave that power to the players. If the players make terrible economic decisions, the whole economy will crash (from what I've read sometime ago, it happened 2-3 times). There were even IRL crimes that involved clearing out in-game banks that basically screwed the whole EVE World for a few days. Did the devs restricted control of the economy? Nope. And everything still works. Because the players slowly learned how to figure out and operate stuff by themselves.

Of course, this is just my opinion on the topic and I could be completely wrong :P

[Castle (DayZ) 23]

My real problem is more along the lines of: Right now in DayZ player killing in DayZ is rewarding, and not player killing is punishing. When you get too many people working together you have trouble finding enough food / ammo etc to split between everyone. In contrast when you kill another player you now have all their food / ammo to yourself. Also it only takes a couple people with good weapons to take on large amounts of zed if they need to, while allowing them to avoid zed much more easily.

There doesn't have to be something that actively punishes. Making the makarov not super bad and improving the zed could drastically change the scale.

[Swi1ch 39]

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing again and again and expecting different results".

1. Get a fucking plan.

2. Stop assuming everyone wants to survive.

3. Stop assuming everyone wants to cooperate.

4. Find the people (offline if needed) that want to do these things.

5. Trust those people and nobody else.

6. Don't be part of the fucking problem (avoid' date=' rather than kill).

This IS stupid. So do something about it. Posting "aw everyone kills everyone" on the forums is what people have been doing for ages. Has it worked? NO. So try something else. I see a few groups are doing different stuff, and they're keeping quiet about it. It's obvious from the database those people who are adjusting to the "anti-game" environment and those who aren't.

I don't have the resources or the inclination to balance the game, or develop some kind of punishment system. So that just ain't going to happen, even if it was within the scope of the project (and its not).

[b']So the DayZ world has gone to shit? Good. We're on track then. Because its a fucking Zombie Apocalypse.