Disconnecting to avoid death

[sgt.mazer 2]

Here's the way it needs to work, including a logical explanation of why it works...

When you disconnect, your game client shuts down. The server retains a copy of your character for 3 minutes. Any zombies associated with you also stick around, meaning if you lead a group of them into a barn and DC, they are going to eat your sorry ass. This allows you to go to work, do your chores, or peep on the neighbors if an IRL emergency pops up, while the guys you shot at return fire and kill your DCing ass.

To prevent you from reconnecting while the old character is still there, the server could issue a temporary 3 minute ban, the hive could refuse to send data for that character for 3 minutes, or whatever technical hack it would take to get this work. Hell, maybe all it takes is the hive storing these characters as "asleep" and not allowing a connection during the asleep phase.

This will punish people who exploit, but will not impact legit players except in extremely rare instances. Perhaps someone stumbles on your body during those 3 minutes, you whine? That's equivalent to sleeping for 3 minutes! In the real Zombie Apoc, you would need to sleep for far longer, and be just as vulnerable. This is NOT A PUNISHMENT to legit players. It is simply an implementation to stop people disconnecting in dangerous locations/situations. It also provides another survival goal: finding a safe camp/hiding spot.

If you get into a firefight, your choices are to shoot it out, or be vulnerable for 3 minutes. (3 minutes is a compromise. To really reflect the dangers of sleep, your body should stick around far longer: 10 minutes, 30 minutes, an hour even. Except that you can log back in anytime after 3 minutes has passed and "wake up".)

If you can't be bothered to hunker down in a secure location before logging out, then you deserve death. Would you go to sleep for 8 hours in a supermarket? What about in the middle of a field? Would you go to sleep in a pine tree during a firefight? I don't think so.

[Gera (DayZ) 0]

Implementing the such thing is good, but after you fix the zombies and their endless spawn rates.

[Gruelius 16]

7 mins is too long. People that are just DCing will be found and killed..

maybe it should be if you are in shock you take ages to DC...

[whatever12345 1]

The topic is how best to "deal" with the issue of a person disconnecting from the video game, when they are in a situation they do not wish to be in (either having to play fair like everyone else by not dieing from Zombies, or by being killed by another character). Even though it would seem like Captain Obvious is here, I am restating this to make a point, which is this: It is my understanding from his post that he wishes this game mod to be truly player driven and as realistic as it can be. It seems that the developers idea is to above all else not roam into linear gameplay mechanics simply to achieve the goal of fairness. Right now it seems to be as real as it can be. I have seen others and found myself in situations I never thought I would in a video game, and that is why I love DayZ. I shot a guy out of fear for my own character, and have never done that before. There is a post about a guy who was kept hostage by a group and he tweeted everything. In real life I imagine that people slip in and out of combat ALL THE TIME. Fairness/right/wrong is all relative. Life is relative. You might be a good guy, and I might be the bad guy, but guess what, I might get away.

Now, the only argument seems to be over the use of a timer and how it can help but also hurt at the same time. I have an idea, and will try to list it to make it easier to digest. I am trying to put this in the frame of mind that it is real life. Noone is Rambo, except Rambo. If we were shot our hearts would be beating harder then ever, our minds would be distracted making it hard for us to concentrate (reload/strategize), and getting away would be more difficult since we are physically (bleeding/broken) and physchologically hurt (scared).

If there is a way to design the game to have a timer that is not too short, then it would allow people who are being chased by Zombies/being shot at, to have to deal with it and not exploit the situation they are in. At the same time, not being too long it would allow legit players to reconnect to a server or change servers when there is a problem with the client/server itself.

Too short:

Zombies (even very far away) take about 10-15 seconds to reach you and begin hitting you, im my experience. This may be a bit longer for someone who is kiting Zombies far far away through some wooded areas, but definitly no longer then 20 seconds from what I have seen, except when they run up a hillside/through a building. In a recent patch I believe the design was changed so you could lose them by running inside a building/ around trees for line of sight, which (according to my extensive knowledge of real life zombies, haha) would be realistic. Some movies even portray them as dumbed down, but because the movie director or writer believed that zombies were simply animated and walking around functioning meerly out of instinct (chase "food," hit food, eat brains, like in The Omega Man). More recently they have been portrayed as smarter, able to communicate with eachother (I Am Legend), but they still have some degree or realm of weakness (usually the sun, fire, or they eventually die off).

*I am making this point because if a timer is created and how long it runs for can end up dictating availability of choices later on when/if the zombies are developed more. If the timer is only 15 seconds, then the developer may be limited to keeping the zombies running at a certain speed or "fast" upon detection (although he could make some that always crawl slow even if they see you or whatever), but something to think about. Everything design decision can change every other one. We may tend to play the lone-wolf, the sniper/PVPer, or the group guide, but we do not want to ever limit choices due to our own personal play style! It seems to make sense that simply adding a 15 or so second timer upon no longer being detected by any zombie takes care of this...

Players:

If you are "detected" by another player then there is always the chance of them getting away from you/you getting away from them. The idea is that we can help him design a way of the game to know if one player sees another, and having the ability for the other to get a shot in. I think we should make some points here:

1. There simply is no way for the game to read our minds in real life. Period.

2. If there was a way for the game to know that the other guy "spotted" us by either shooting us (and same goes for a Zombie hitting us), then our timer would begin at say 1 minute from whenever we bandage ourselves, which would reflect the extra time we would need to bandage and crawl out of a situation/evade.

3. So, it seems that enough time should be given for the shooter to run in and finish the kill and since our minds are not right we would take longer to escape, BUT also so they have to think before they shoot. If they decide to shoot from the other side of the map and then want to crawl in (taking 6 minutes) avoiding every zombie, then the game would be giving snipers an unfair advantage of holding other players hostage. I do not think it should be so short that they have to expose themselves to open field running and any/all incoming fire because a bandaged victim only has to wait 15 seconds to logoff, but at the same time shouldn't that be the choice the sniper has to make if and when they decide to shoot? (I am also mentioning the most extreme example of sniping since close quarters/range battles seem to be alot shorter).

Non-combat: If the player is just going to finish for the night or go eat dinner and wants to logoff, they are not forced to sit and stare at the screen for 7 minutes... So the server has time to save a character, and they would just have to sit still letting the server know they are logging off out of combat.

---------

Too long:

Zombies: This seems simply a matter of timing on the developers part. Figure the max range for a zombie to "hear" a shotgun blast, shoot the shotgun, and time how long it takes a zombie to run at you and begin hitting you. You canont logoff to escape (*cough cough* exploit) since the zombie is hitting you, so you must deal with it, then go hide. If (and I am guessing here) it takes a zombie 43 seconds to run at you and begin hitting you after you shoot the loudest weapon in DayZ (shotgun??), then make the timer 45 seconds. The chances of being at the exact max distance, shooting the loudest weapon and not bing hit in perfect timing is so minimal that it is probbaly OK to change the timer for an approx. lenght here.

Also, eventually we may want to logoff inside a city building and since Zombies are wanderingaround, making it like 2 minutes is far too lnog since you might often see a zombie walk by and "detect you." I would hate to be a legit player, waiting 2 minutes, but every time it gets close another zombie just HAPPENS to se me because the timer is "soo looonnng." lol

Players: It seems that if in real life another person was shooting at you, you would sit there perhaps for hours and hours, or even days before you would move unless you were able to come up with a strategy. This idea has been portrayed before in American western movies where indians were the "bad guys" and they would attack the cowbows, cripple them, then wait until nightfall to go in and "finish them off". This advantage is either chosen by the server the person is playing on (day/night) or by the person choosing to play night time with flares/NVGs/glow sticks. I believe that we should be given a choice to either sit pray (hoping they do too), thikning up a strategy like throwing a smoke grenade at the sniper to attract zombies to them) or prepare for an incoming assault on our position.

I do not think it should be so long that they can slowly crawl in (avoiding every zombie), or so long that our game is being held hostage by another player. Remember, the shooter makes the first choice, and if he decided to shoot as soon as he sees the other player, then he is giving up his ability to be patient and wait for a better shot, gain a better position or wait for us to run into the open after looting a building. Alot of the streamers I watch shoot the second they see another player in a building and do not wait for a better shot.

If there was a timer and people could no longer logoff as soon as they were shot, then I believe snipers would react in a more realistic way (no longer hesitating out of fear for loosing from insta-logoff), and we may see far more realistic/quality shots taken/kills. Think about it. If this was real life and you knew the other guy could not use magic to escape, would you shoot the second you saw him, or would you probably wait for what you felt was "the right moment"? Wouldn't you also wait until they perhaps walked into the open, or at least until they were in a spot that you were not afraid of approaching? Remember when Doc-J and 8-Ball were shot? The sniper waiting until they were in a certain spot to shoot, and then Animal Mother wanted to just run in because he could not find the position? All of those mechanics were there because the victims could not insta-logoff. So the sniper had to wait so they had the best position and they were forced to become mentally challenged about what to do in the situation. They could save their buddies lives if they could either find the sniper and take em out, or get to the downed soldiers. With a timer, when two or more people are involved in this situation it can go any way for any number of reasons. One guy might light up a tree while another guy runs over to administer an epi pen because they can no save their buddy, or since the sniper knows he has "some extent of time" on his side then he might pin them in the open and use it to their advantage. I know I would not shoot them unsure if I got a kill, because then I would have to go in and they might still be alive, or worse off bandaged/reloaded/returning fire. haha I do not see adding a timer in any way taking away from the game being player driven, sandbox, or realistic as long as a length is relative to the situation and realism. XD

Summary:

Today I watched a streamer walk into a camp with a hatchet. He found two other players there with rifles. They were saying into voice chat "put the hatchet down" and the streamer I was watching said "no, that is stupid you guys have guns, I am no threat." Then he was shot a few times in the face. Since we are playing in a sandbox peoples true selves come out. Remember both parties might be good guys who never murder, or they both might be bad guy who do nothing but camp and try to kill newly spawned players (the same people who say that there is nothing else to do because the group they run with has everything, but seem to refrain from openly challenging other groups of people *cough cough*). Keeping this frame of mind helps us to design the use of a timer and length, without trying to villianize one party over another (be biased).

If there is a way for the game to "detect" that we are shot, or "know" that we are detected by a zombie, then a timer should begin. As soon as we are no longer detected by a zombie then our X second logoff timer would start and we would just have to stand still (which also gives the server time to save our characters or do other tasks it may need to do). Same goes with being shot, except it would be longer, since in real life escaping/evading an opponent would take longer as well (we would not simply run into a tree and *poof*. This simple mechanics feels like it would keep the game in a more realistic direction, and at the same time keep the game open sandbox/non-linear (player driven). The timer lengths could be figured out by the designers and what they feel length of time is fair for what situations (being shot/detected by a zombie), and all the other situations like going into shock/flashing food or water could be included at the developers discretion since they are all relative. XD

[max2k 4]

2-3 Minutes is not too much. An option for the Players wo don't want to sit out this time, would be a "leave now" button. The charakter would stay the remaining time on the server, but the client could be closed. Timer should even start on disconects, to get rid of alf + f4 users.

All the writing about detacting and adjusting logout time to it, reads like a heavy workload on the modteam ...

And if the Team got ride of the dc and duping problem i would be all in for complet databank reset.

Edited July 11, 2012 by max2k

[lockie1976 39]

if the Team got ride of the dc and duping problem i would be all in for complet databank reset.

+1 ^^

Minutes!? 5-10 seconds max!.... sit and think about it... count out 10 seconds and tell me thats not enough time to kill a dcer's character that is motionless.

3 minutes is extreme, you would have to run deep bush every dc... players go everywhere, players spawn in everywhere, no where on the map is safe... 3 minutes is a long time, far too long.

Edited July 11, 2012 by i76

[max2k 4]

No 5-10 seconds is nothing in this game. I saw some fights taking 30+ minutes with flanking and repositioning. And if you feel insecure dont hit the "leave now" button so you can react and aboard dc if something is happening.

[whatever12345 1]

+1 ^^

Minutes!? 5-10 seconds max!.... sit and think about it... count out 10 seconds and tell me thats not enough time to kill a dcer's character that is motionless.

When people are shot by a sniper, the majority of them tend to go prone or back into a corner, then 10 seconds is nothing. They will simply continue to do what they have been doing this entire time.People will just be taught by a short timer to simply go prone and disconnect...

2-3 minutes is super long yes, but 10 seconds is far far too short. Maybe 30 seconds? Once the other player is shot, one of them tends to go into walking mode and start cutting the pie (rotate around corners) to slowly creep up on the opponent. 10 seconds is simply not enough if he has ran up stairs or into the next hangar. You might even see the guy, but if he is in prone he can easily make it out in time. This forces behaviors and goes against what the mod seems to be aimed at (playing the way you want to play) I would agree to 30 seconds, but O_N_L_Y if the player is not bleeding/being hit by a zombie! If they are bleeding or being hit, they should continue to bleed or simply not be able to logoffed off by the server until they can stand "undisturbed" for X seconds.

[hammerfistxi 0]

why can't we just have a WoW style of timer / logout setup?

[rome 58]

why can't we just have a WoW style of timer / logout setup?

How does it work? Some people don't play Wow :P

And again :

30 SEC doesn't fix any DC problem. Server hoppers, Dc and reposition to kill, etc etc.

So i say 30 sec is just useless.

2-3 minutes logout timer. Thats all we need to fix all our chernarussian problem. It doesn't punish anyone as it IS a really small amount of time. Not even enough to make myself a coffe ffs....

[wolfleader01 3]

what northy said is the Only way to fairly do it, this works in eve online a very popular MMO game, if your ship is engaged by another player it remains on grid for 15mins, although the game is different and so are the timelenths of getting killed, implimenting something like this would be very faverouble, the question is, do you have the same agression counter for both player agression and zombie agression

[kohliath 2]

Sometimes the DCing is very helpfull.. I was on a building in Cherno with my enfield eehmmm to shoot some birds, you know... Suddenly a axe fool was on the same building and knocked me out.. I Alt + F4'd and hope he enrages.

I am very sure that he saw me, logged in an other server, get on the top of the building and logged back. So, if you read this: FFFish You, i am alive :PP

Edit: Before remove the DC Alt + F4 Function, remove the fking server hopping. I dont know how, but disable it

Edited July 11, 2012 by WARLORD_3000

[shadai87@hotmail.fr 1]

Sometimes the DCing is very helpfull.. I was on a building in Cherno with my enfield eehmmm to shoot some birds, you know... Suddenly a axe fool was on the same building and knocked me out.. I Alt + F4'd and hope he enrages.

Aaand that's part of reason we want to add a way to fix disconnecting.

[kohliath 2]

Mhm sure, so he get my stuff because he server hopped ? Certainly Not.

[yorkie065 78]

I think a mechanic where you character goes to sleep would be more sufficient; similar to minecraft. Every player has a sleeping bag that they keep in their back-pack. It can be used anywhere at any time, and deploying it will start a countdown timer of 10-15 seconds where you character starts to fall asleep. This should be able to be cancelled at any time by the player.

To go alongside this, I don't you should be allowed to log out when bleeding. Once you have bandaged yourself and the blood loss has stopped, you can log out using the sleeping bag. Tents could also be another place where you can sleep to log out. But it has to be your own tent and not someone elses.

Reasons why I purpose this method:

- A stand alone timer doesn't seem right, especially ones that seem like a very lengthy period as you may very well just get caught unlucky. You can find a safe spot, scope it out for 5 mins and then start logging out, just to have some random guy pass by and see you and shoot you.

- Leaving the body behind for a set time after spawn is just as bad, for exactly the same reason.

I doubt this would totally resolve DC'ing to avoid death, it would certainly help to give decrease the amount it occurs, and give a greater chance for anyone who's killing another player to get the kill.

[slupfee 6]

EDIT: lol This is nice i now understand.

Edited July 11, 2012 by TroyDayZ

[andremarques 4]

I think a mechanic where you character goes to sleep would be more sufficient; similar to minecraft. Every player has a sleeping bag that they keep in their back-pack. It can be used anywhere at any time, and deploying it will start a countdown timer of 10-15 seconds where you character starts to fall asleep. This should be able to be cancelled at any time by the player.

To go alongside this, I don't you should be allowed to log out when bleeding. Once you have bandaged yourself and the blood loss has stopped, you can log out using the sleeping bag. Tents could also be another place where you can sleep to log out. But it has to be your own tent and not someone elses.

Reasons why I purpose this method:

- A stand alone timer doesn't seem right, especially ones that seem like a very lengthy period as you may very well just get caught unlucky. You can find a safe spot, scope it out for 5 mins and then start logging out, just to have some random guy pass by and see you and shoot you.

- Leaving the body behind for a set time after spawn is just as bad, for exactly the same reason.

I doubt this would totally resolve DC'ing to avoid death, it would certainly help to give decrease the amount it occurs, and give a greater chance for anyone who's killing another player to get the kill.

Good idea!

It would be nice to be able to sleep inside the tents. I don't think it would totally resolve disconnecting to avoid death, but the player will have to think twice before disconnecting.

[Max Planck 7174]

Sometimes the DCing is very helpfull.. I was on a building in Cherno with my enfield eehmmm to shoot some birds, you know... Suddenly a axe fool was on the same building and knocked me out.. I Alt + F4'd and hope he enrages.

I am very sure that he saw me, logged in an other server, get on the top of the building and logged back. So, if you read this: FFFish You, i am alive :PP

Edit: Before remove the DC Alt + F4 Function, remove the fking server hopping. I dont know how, but disable it

A 15 sec login timer would give you time to take him out if he logged in behind you.

We need a fix that will prevent both his server hopping and your DC'ing.

(In before 'Disgraced' throwing a hissy fit over this mindless repetition of a suggestion that is found practically everywhere all the time. Except it isn't)

Edited July 11, 2012 by Max Planck

[rexynator 2]

All these 2 Minute + solutions of keeping a character in the game are a horrible idea, what about the people who legitimately lose connection or crash?

Looting a building then your game crashes or your net drops and 1 minute later a zombie or player comes along... you get the idea.

Edited July 11, 2012 by RexYnator

[earion 3]

How does it work? Some people don't play Wow :P

And again :

30 SEC doesn't fix any DC problem. Server hoppers, Dc and reposition to kill, etc etc.

So i say 30 sec is just useless.

2-3 minutes logout timer. Thats all we need to fix all our chernarussian problem. It doesn't punish anyone as it IS a really small amount of time. Not even enough to make myself a coffe ffs....

Totally support this idea, Given the average distance of engagement and the average length of a gunfight in dayz, a 30 seconds timer doesn't make any sense.

The gunfights that go on for less than 30 seconds and at a distance of less than 50 meters always result in the death of someone within less than 30 seconds. Unless the two or more players are able to break the Line of Sight by finding concealement/cover before one of them goes down. And, if such a thing happen, the gunfight can then go on for a long time - definitely more than 30 seconds.

[yorkie065 78]

Totally support this idea, Given the average distance of engagement and the average length of a gunfight in dayz, a 30 seconds timer doesn't make any sense.

The gunfights that go on for less than 30 seconds and at a distance of less than 50 meters always result in the death of someone within less than 30 seconds. Unless the two or more players are able to break the Line of Sight by finding concealement/cover before one of them goes down. And, if such a thing happen, the gunfight can then go on for a long time - definitely more than 30 seconds.

Ok, think of this situation!! You find a good bunch of tree's that have very good concealment in the middle of a forest. You hang around for a couple of minutes, constantly looking around in all directions to make sure your safe. You call the all clear and move to the tree's logging out. During your 2-3 minutes of logging out, some guy who just happens to be wandering by, no idea of your location or knew you were there in the first place. But just happens to come across your body during the log out time and shoots you. Can you honestly say that you will not be pissed?

Yes, it stops the firefight DC'ing, but I would rather a player DC when I shoot at them, than me getting killed during an extensive log out time period.

Edit: This issue shouldn't really exist. It's peoples stupid mentality and lack of respect/ enjoyment for the game for themselves and others that needs to change. Just now that one or two people have done it, everyone is doing it.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Yorkie065

[cloggeddrain 2]

Ok, think of this situation!! You find a good bunch of tree's that have very good concealment in the middle of a forest. You hang around for a couple of minutes, constantly looking around in all directions to make sure your safe. You call the all clear and move to the tree's logging out. During your 2-3 minutes of logging out, some guy who just happens to be wandering by, no idea of your location or knew you were there in the first place. But just happens to come across your body during the log out time and shoots you. Can you honestly say that you will not be pissed?

Yes, it stops the firefight DC'ing, but I would rather a player DC when I shoot at them, than me getting killed during an extensive log out time period.

Back in the UO days, if you were going to logoff outside of town, you needed to make a fire to setup camp, and after a certain amount of time you were able to logoff instantly. You weren't able to be in combat or have any players or npc's around you. Adding this would help prevent the situation you described.

[yorkie065 78]

Back in the UO days, if you were going to logoff outside of town, you needed to make a fire to setup camp, and after a certain amount of time you were able to logoff instantly. You weren't able to be in combat or have any players or npc's around you. Adding this would help prevent the situation you described.

I've not played UO, but the method that you've described here is similar to what I proposed a couple of posts back (basically a sleeping bag). Something equally similar would be good, something that allows you to still look around with the free look, and cancel the logout process if you see any players near by. I think a straight up timer isn't really keeping within realistic approach and boundaries of the game. Just won't fit right.

[jasonmcmackins@gmail.com 24]

Man I just keep shaking my head, ringing my hands, and just worried as hell in general.

Yes, it stops the firefight DC'ing, but I would rather a player DC when I shoot at them, than me getting killed during an extensive log out time period.

Key word there. Firefight. Why are features in this Apocalypse Survival game being dictated by a group of folks that should just be playing the Black Ops Zombie map? Yes I whole heartily agree that the player v. player threat is and always should be a part of this game. In any truly good zombie survival situation there's always that hesitation when running across other survivors. There's even that crazy guy that's fallen in love with the end of the world and sits up in a tower shooting anything that moves. I mean that's what brought me here. Zombies!!! And I am damn sure that's what brought a lot of others, but all I can see is us heading down a road that turns this into another shooter that the devs decided to throw some walking dead in for the shits and giggles of it. To hell with that. Several of those games already exist. Are we playing them now? Considering we're here discussing this venture into the theme I would say, not so much. Who gives a rats ass if someone DC's. Complaining that you didn't get the KILL? Seriously? Now using the exploit to gain an advantage such as easier looting or positioning yourself to kill more players? Yeah, that's definitely an issue that needs to be addressed. Though implementing some timer so you can go ahead and get your precious kill is nonsense. Wrong game. Now I could see a timer being used to help fix one of the two I mentioned or something similar. Let us just make sure we're addressing the issues for the right reasons that follow faithfully the spirit of the mod. Or least what I hope is.

Edit: Oh now I am loving the sleeping bag Idea. Now that's something I could easily wrap my head around. I've always viewed myself and others as "sleeping' when I am logged out. You maybe even able to push that Idea a little further and only allow changes/saves to character upon rest. You could also create zones where the sleeping bag could not be diploid and logging out there would reset your character to the last successful save or maybe even all the way back to the beginning. It would suck for those that had crappy connections though.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Void

[rome 58]

Man I just keep shaking my head, ringing my hands, and just worried as hell in general.

Key word there. Firefight. Why are features in this Apocalypse Survival game being dictated by a group of folks that should just be playing the Black Ops Zombie map? Yes I whole heartily agree that the player v. player threat is and always should be a part of this game. In any truly good zombie survival situation there's always that hesitation when running across other survivors. There's even that crazy guy that's fallen in love with the end of the world and sits up in a tower shooting anything that moves. I mean that's what brought me here. Zombies!!! And I am damn sure that's what brought a lot of others, but all I can see is us heading down a road that turns this into another shooter that the devs decided to throw some walking dead in for the shits and giggles of it. To hell with that. Several of those games already exist. Are we playing them now? Considering we're here discussing this venture into the theme I would say, not so much. Who gives a rats ass if someone DC's. Complaining that you didn't get the KILL? Seriously? Now using the exploit to gain an advantage such as easier looting or positioning yourself to kill more players? Yeah, that's definitely an issue that needs to be addressed. Though implementing some timer so you can go ahead and get your precious kill is nonsense. Wrong game. Now I could see a timer being used to help fix one of the two I mentioned or something similar. Let us just make sure we're addressing the issues for the right reasons that follow faithfully the spirit of the mod. Or least what I hope is.

I will ignore the dumb part of this post like *go play other pvp game if not happy n stuff* and comment the smart part.

(you see you are capable of both ;) )

I am not a pvper. I play in a friendly group on FR35 (or at least friendly to people who know how to communicate ingame).

Each time we encounter bandits, we shoot some of them. The others DC and respawn Behind us or on our flank.

That behavior is now AUTOMATIC............ but not for us.

We find ourselves playing the game as you seem to agree it should be played, but you don't agree that a 2-3 min DC timer - you freeze till you deco but can still abort it if you move- would help us erase that behaviour... By the way that solves the problem the above poster mentionned aka being killed while logging out..

I just don't get it. Thats ok, of course you can think you have a better solution but i just dont understand..

Regarding the sleeping bag or whatever, it's a good idea but that cosmetic. At the moment we need X amount of time required before logging out.

I just pray for that X to be longer than 1 or 2 minutes.