WTF is happening to the server community.

[Sveglia 2]

This is going to became a massive PvP with survival needs and some random zombies around, hell, maybe one day they remove the zombies and no one will notice that. This is what this guys want, and this is what they get it. They infested the game, and now the forums, and everyone who begs to differ is a "carebear", as my -1 reputation shows.

[The Killing Joke 43]

They infested the game' date=' and now the forums, and everyone who begs to differ is a "carebear", as my -1 reputation shows.[/quote']

As your what shows? Muhahahahahahahaha!

[Koot (DayZ) 5]

This thread sure exploded into oblivion, but atleast something good came out of it after 40+ pages of heated rage and bukkake.

[The Killing Joke 43]

I knew you were trolling, when I noticed you had abandoned the discussion.

:D

[Koot (DayZ) 5]

lol i didn't abandon anything, the moment i finished reading one long post, a whole new page full of posts appeared, i let it live its own life.

[Survivorman (DayZ) 0]

I cant help but look at this from an economic aproach. Incentives are

what fuels our playstyle, and the incentives have changed.

First I hypothesize that there's two main ways to play this game:

A "realistic PvE" approach: "I want to survive, and cooperate if possible, but I will kill you if I have to."

And the "realistic PvP" approach "I want to survive/grief and I will kill you to obtain my goals(one of which may be simply to see what color your blood is), preferably with a bit of backstabbing first"

One of the incentives for playstyle one is a strong social capital in the community. In the beginning this was the case, both due to the bandit skin, but also because there where so few players, people recognized your name and where wary on sight. People still used approach two, but with only a small percentage using this approach, number one was still dominant.

At the moment the social capital of the community is in decline. Why shouldn't it be, we're all selfish beings. Three things happened: The community exploded, Deer stands provided military grade weapons, and the bandit skin disappeared. I cant give you the numbers, but I can say that even the "friendly" Nordic servers are now taking a turn for playstyle number two. Those who want to try to survive as long as possible will avoid other players, travel more or less with radio silence and for every bullet to the head slowly drift towards playstyle two. Playstyle two on the other hand will enjoy a boom. Risking your hard earned AK isn't so bad when you know there's tons more out there now. Probably on a fresh corpse. And the amount of victims prepared to hesitantly trust you has increased with the survivor skin and tag being permanent.

Now I'm not pro or con PVP. It should definitely be a part of the game. But I dont buy the whole "If it actually was a zombie apocalypse you'd spray and pray at any given opportunity". If you died, you'd be dead. If you survived, you'd build relationships to people who would recognize you. Social capital would thrive or most likely you would be gunned down in the name of justice. Society hinges on you needing the people around you to better your life or survive, and it would apply here as well. Ofcourse this isnt easily translated into a game.

Now, not everyone agrees with me, but there's two things I urge the trigger happy to consider:

If everyone shoots everyone, the griefing is way smaller, and you'll soon find yourself lying on the beach in a pool of blood as often as not.

Other games do the whole Deathmatch in a sandbox map better than thisone. The boom of players might very well bust if the game becomes that shallow.

Will this change anything? I don't know. Am I in the wrong game, a carebear and should I run cry to my mommy, possibly. Am I going darkside anytime soon? Nah, I have BF3 or GW3 to fall back on. Much cooler weapons.

[Shanefromwalkingdead 4]

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing again and again and expecting different results".

1. Get a fucking plan.

2. Stop assuming everyone wants to survive.

3. Stop assuming everyone wants to cooperate.

4. Find the people (offline if needed) that want to do these things.

5. Trust those people and nobody else.

6. Don't be part of the fucking problem (avoid' date=' rather than kill).

This IS stupid. So do something about it. Posting "aw everyone kills everyone" on the forums is what people have been doing for ages. Has it worked? NO. So try something else. I see a few groups are doing different stuff, and they're keeping quiet about it. It's obvious from the database those people who are adjusting to the "anti-game" environment and those who aren't.

I don't have the resources or the inclination to balance the game, or develop some kind of punishment system. So that just ain't going to happen, even if it was within the scope of the project (and its not).

[b']So the DayZ world has gone to shit? Good. We're on track then. Because its a fucking Zombie Apocalypse.

First developer I have seen to call the anti-sandbox people out on their whining.

You are my hero.

[TheyFocus 0]

The shoot man with gun crowd will likely leave well before people seeking a more broad gaming experience. There are a shit ton better games out there that provide that kind of experience.

Let the new car smell wear out before you judge the "state of the community"

Just to clarify' date=' I actually have no problem with the shoot-man-with-gun crowd, per se. As long as they are acting within the rules, anybody should be allowed to play the game any damn way they please. And, this isn't even a traditional "balance" problem, either. Yes, a few more mechanics along the lines of the blood transfusions which incentivize some level of co-operation would be very helpful. But, no, I think the crux of the problem lies in the player-to-player interactivity. Although technically not possible, my ideal solution would be:

A) Direct VOIP Communication Only

B) No 3rd Party VOIP or Comms Allowed

Why? What would the effect on gameplay be? Well, considering everybody spawns all over the place, you couldn't just hop into servers and team up with your friends or clan members from the start. Now, consider that even without any additional game mechanics to encourage teamwork, it still is a major advantage for people to group together and run in packs. But, since now people are going to have a much harder time meeting up with their buddies from outside the game, they'd be forced to - wait for it - make new friends. *GASP* I know, a scary and dangerous concept. And a fun and realistic one which would lead to all kinds of crazy situations. Now, that's my idea of a social experiment.

Of course, the immediate problem this creates is that guys can still agree beforehand: "OK, everyone, we'll all meet at the church in Cherno. Avoid all contact until then." But, I think you'll find in practice such a system wouldn't play out in the clean, precise manner one might expect. In any case, it's just a daydream, since rule B is completely unenforceable

[/quote']

I completely agree. Servers should be assigned on a random basis and players should not be able to play with their friends or clan members. This would encourage more stranger interaction rather than teaming up with your gang and sniping noobs while coordinating on TS.

[caelistas 1]

Solution: hook up with friends and use teamspeak to co-op with others.

If you don't have rl friends who play this (i don't aswell) ->

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/dayzcoop

Group is invite only, so pm or add me on steam, and i'll invite you to the group, only things are required are a mic and basic english skills.

[bovine3dom 0]

[well thought out analysis of the problem we have]

So... how do you suggest we fix it?

Item degradation over time, player corpses not being 100% lootable, less bonkers guns in the deer stands?

EDIT: I really don't like the idea of not allowing people to team up with friends. ArmA 2 is always better with friends, especially since my friends know how not to attract hundreds of zombies and get me killed.

[Moses (DayZ) 0]

It is hard to fix a social problem with game mechanics, if it is even a problem.

Also as this thread goes around and around just my ideas to come by this problem.

1. Change the humanity logo face to a sad looking one, if the humanity drops.

2. Remove the debug window. (shows kills etc)

3. Remove all kill messages.

4. Chance of damaged loot form players.

[twangydave 0]

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing again and again and expecting different results".

1. Get a fucking plan.

2. Stop assuming everyone wants to survive.

3. Stop assuming everyone wants to cooperate.

4. Find the people (offline if needed) that want to do these things.

5. Trust those people and nobody else.

6. Don't be part of the fucking problem (avoid' date=' rather than kill).

This IS stupid. So do something about it. Posting "aw everyone kills everyone" on the forums is what people have been doing for ages. Has it worked? NO. So try something else. I see a few groups are doing different stuff, and they're keeping quiet about it. It's obvious from the database those people who are adjusting to the "anti-game" environment and those who aren't.

I don't have the resources or the inclination to balance the game, or develop some kind of punishment system. So that just ain't going to happen, even if it was within the scope of the project (and its not).

[b']So the DayZ world has gone to shit? Good. We're on track then. Because its a fucking Zombie Apocalypse.

First developer I have seen to call the anti-sandbox people out on their whining.

You are my hero.

Felt I had to register to add my support to this. I'm 39 years old and I've been a gamer since age 13, I also have a 15 year old nephew who's a very keen gamer so I have formed a fair impression of how games companies target their products and why we might have all these childish tears and butthurt in this thread.

Modern games companies spoon feed insipid slop that is intended to masssage the egos of fragile people who have no other yard stick to measure their self worth than success in virtual worlds. The brilliance of their designs is of course that the bar is set so low that everyone achieves the rosy glow of success. EVERYONE finishes games, usually in a matter of hours and everyone unlocks the shiny gear - if not, there is a cheat or a guide to ensure that if you can turn the game/pc/console on then you can probably complete it.

It's time for the masses to realise - YOU ARE NOT VERY GOOD AT COMPUTER GAMES!

When I started out, there was no tutorials, no guides, no cheats, no internet, we played games for months, sometimes never getting beyond a certain level, sometimes you'd tear your hair out in frustration but the few that kept going would do so out of committment, pride or sheer bloody mindedness. Gaming was hard and not so many people bothered with it, those that did found the reward of genuine achievement that few could emulate. Your reward after months of game effort was often as simple as a 'Well Done!' in text before the game reset to the opening screen, success was hard won and transitory, there were no saves or checkpoints, often the only person to know you'd 'done it' would be you and you alone. We played purely for the joy of playing and our love of moving through virtual landscapes, there was not the expectation of some kind of end game, the immersion was the reward.

This 'game' is very special, years have passed without anything like this emerging, it could have significant impact on the future of gaming if people in charge are wise enough to see that a vision of something better has been presented here. Don't try to get the man to break it just because it currently denies you things you feel you are entitled to. You are entitled to nothing - You must work harder and when you do, you'll find that you'll come to love this thing that has made you better.

[Evilsausage 87]

I completely agree. Servers should be assigned on a random basis and players should not be able to play with their friends or clan members. This would encourage more stranger interaction rather than teaming up with your gang and sniping noobs while coordinating on TS.

Playing with friends/clans IS player interaction. Thats a horrible suggestion to get people to team up with randoms.

People do want to be able to play with other they know and trust. Playing with some random douche that likes aggroing an entire town of zombies or might just kill you is not gonna add more fun.

This game is about having choices, not forcing people to play a certain way.

If someone wanna team up with randoms, good for u. But that doesn't mean everyone want to.

Besides teams that sit at the cost and snipe noobs has nothing to gain on it. But the noobs learn something out of it and the gankers risk alot by revealing their position to kill noobs.

People has just been spoonfed by all other games on "how a game should be like". Which normally involves super nice fluffy gameplay that doesn't punish you if you fail.

But if there is nothing that punish you, there is nothing really that rewards either. Thats why a lagy gun fight in this game is far more exciting then any fight in Battlefield 3.

[Survivorman (DayZ) 0]

[well thought out analysis of the problem we have]

So... how do you suggest we fix it?

Item degradation over time' date=' player corpses not being 100% lootable, less bonkers guns in the deer stands?

EDIT: I really don't like the idea of not allowing people to team up with friends. ArmA 2 is always better with friends, especially since my friends know how not to attract hundreds of zombies and get me killed.

[/quote']

That's the question. I do like my game theory, and we've got a prisoners dilemma here, but the payout for cooperation is too small compared to the risk. There's a few things to consider:

The bandit skin offered a semblance of factionification. You didn't know who to trust, but you knew who defiantly not to trust. Its hard to think of a better or "fairer" way to implement a similar system, without possibly a more advanced humanity. Pure factions is one, but then we're talking major changes to the game, and not minor fixes. I do dream of a day where players can create or are put into factions, build towns and war over resources in the Zombie apocalypse, but we're far from it.

I guess I'd start with a tag (like regular servers) but only visible 20 or so meters away, so you could at least identify who you're seeing without using time to type it out. A functioning local chat system so identification without blowing cover could be possible, and the potential for temporary grouping with a 10 second grace period when someone leaves the group before they can start machine gunning your bum.

Then there's people recognizing you/small community. Almost impossible to reverse a trend created by 100.000 players. A humanity score thats visible to the world would help this I guess. A set server, like in Wow or other MMOROMGTHISISSTEALINGMYLIFERPG's seems implausible, as a steady number of people is needed to create the excitement and risk that the bandits actually do provide. I have some dreams when it comes to incentives, but at the moment I don't see how they could be realized.

Incentives: At the moment the incentives to group are small, and the incentives to slay are big. With deerstands dropping much the same as Stary Sobor or a fire station, you can get Grade A equipment without relying on your friends, or even risking much of banditry.

Some have mentioned harder Zombies. That certainly is an incentive to cooperate if you want to survive, but for the non survivors/Bandits it adds little.

The ability to mend jeeps and choppers seems one of the biggest reasons to get a bunch of friends together (as well as survivability). I'd dream of a system where building survivor towns (completely raidable by bandits etc, and which again fits nicely with the faction system mentioned before), and possibly bonuses for hanging with friendly people with good humanity/People with a humanity close to yours.

So, my answer is long and not really implementable. A more advanced humanity system, factions, buildings and generally harder monsters on one side, and the utter joy of smashing all of that to bits on the other. And all of it miles away from the game we enjoy today. But then again, its Alpha, and there's alway room to hope and voice your dreams.

[Madfast 22]

I don't really understand why people seem to have a problem with PvP. I rarely get killed by players, but that is because I adapted.

Back when the mod came out and people were generally more friendly, I could feel quite safe approaching declaring my intentions with no risk to my safety. But when I noticed more and more people were unresponsive to my positive interactions and less willing to trust, or downright hostile,

I adapted. Just make sure you don't blindly go anywhere, I always keep low in cover, survey an area before entering it and constantly scan for any movement. And if I die its because I wasn't careful enough and someone got the drop on me. And now I only ask if someone is friendly if I have the drop on them, if I am in a position to win the confrontation. And that was good enough, most people were willing to be friendly if they knew you were and they couldn't kill you. And I managed to group with quite a few people that way. And when I was in a group I always made sure I had the person constantly in my sights and they weren't pointing a gun at me.

And you know what the benefit of playing carefully and cleverly is? I rarely die from PK, I haven't become a "Cod kid", which is a stupid phrase, if these people wanted to play CoD they would, there play style differs from yours, no need to try and insult them or group them into one big bundle, it is the same as calling people carebears. The main benefit though is I don't feel the need to bitch on the forums constantly.

So to summarize, if you spent more time learning and adapting to the game (you know how survival works and all) and less time complaining on the forums and trying to force the game to adapt to how you play, you would probably have a better time and more importantly I wouldn't have to see a million repeat threads complaining.

Just ask yourself if this really happened what would you do;

1. Learn, adapt to your surroundings to survive as best as possible

2. Or fall to yours knees and pray to some divine entity to change the surroundings to suit you?

Because I am seeing a lot of people doing number 2 at the moment.

[Wakko 0]

Just to clarify, I dont give a single fuck about getting killed by a player, if I leave myself exposed and get shot, I probably wasnt careful enough. It was my own fault.

I love being on my toes, hearing a gunshot, my first thoughts being in what direction the shot was, is he nearby, am I in danger.

My problem is when everyone look the same, I cant tell anything about them. I have absolutely no idea about their humanity. My safest bet is to just shoot everyone on sight, screw being diplomatic. Thats why I personally liked the idea of skin change depending on your characters actions. You rob people, shoot survivors, you get the bandit skin. Then I know, this guy would probably rather shoot me than just take my stuff. I better shoot him first.

If I see a survivor, me personally who just dont want to shoot everyone, might think... "hey, maybe he want to team up" or something like that.

Maybe even if you kill enough bandits, you get a police skin or whatever, showing that this guy will most likely not shoot you unless you're a dick.

I dont give a fuck about getting killed by a player, what I dont like is I cant tell anything about a person in the few first seconds. Which means I better just shoot instead of taking the chance and communicating with him - in case he would happen to be a bandit.

[whisperingdeath 0]

So what are you guys going to do about it?

Bitch and moan here?

Or are you going to do something about it?

I'm disappointed at the removal of the bandit feature.

I feel like, with time, the community would have come together to attack bandits on sight but leave survivors be. Sure, there would be the odd backstabby survivor but he would do his deed knowing he'd become a bandit and live with the consequences.

Without the ability to tell who is liable to kill you and who might be friendly there is an increase in shoot-on-sight between survivors due to the paranoia. Instead of working together to overcome a zombie apocalypse there's a lot of "I can deal with 100 zombies but survivors are my biggest threat, kill any survivor I see"

[_Profile_Shame 37]

"Maybe even if you kill enough bandits, you get a police skin or whatever, showing that this guy will most likely not shoot you unless you're a dick."

thats whats wrong with the bandit idea - people assumed that anyone with a bandit skin was a mass murderer and shot on sight, even if the bandit had the jump on you and didnt fire..

[racecar 0]

What this mod needs (and what it is almost certainly not going to get on this version of the ARMA engine) is some serious character customization. Probably tied to the CD key and only editable every couple of weeks or so.

This way players could be recognizable enough to gain reputations as individuals, good or bad, within the community.

And hey, maybe they will add a police uniform along with the ones we have now and you guys can make a police clan or something, I don't know.

[Delta Smoke 01 765]

Couldnt agree more with the subject of this thread. NO were not carebears we just dont want to kill every single guy we come across. I absolutely loved the balance of this mod two weeks ago and now the odds are HEAVILY stacked on the side of the "bandit" type players. My only hope is that this new skins update is merely a stepping stone of what is to come, because right now DayZ is fucked :S

[ParaB 114]

Was near Gorka in the middle of nowhere last evening. Found a cow and busied myself getting some fresh meat. A survivor approached with lowered weapon. I told him I had no intention to shoot him and if he needed some meat. He said yes, but he didn't have matches. So I created a fireplace, cooked all 8 steaks, then gave him 4. And I told him that I'd seen matches in the barn just down the road. He said thanks, then shot me in the face.

Of course he did. Why run 100m to pick up a box of matches when he can simply take them from my corpse?

It's not getting killed that so annoys me (the most interesting part for me is starting with a fresh char, getting your equipment together) , it's that there's simply no reason in DayZ any more to not kill anyone not in your TS group. Actually you're stupid not to do so.

After 4 weeks of playing I'm now at a point where I probably wait for future updates until I play again. Sad.

[Wakko 0]

"Maybe even if you kill enough bandits' date=' you get a police skin or whatever, showing that this guy will most likely not shoot you unless you're a dick."

thats whats wrong with the bandit idea - people assumed that anyone with a bandit skin was a mass murderer and shot on sight, even if the bandit had the jump on you and didnt fire..

[/quote']

True, but that player got the bandit skin somehow, probably by killing players. You'd know to be more careful around him. I might be totally wrong though

What this mod needs (and what it is almost certainly not going to get on this version of the ARMA engine) is some serious character customization. Probably tied to the CD key and only editable every couple of weeks or so.

This way players could be recognizable enough to gain reputations as individuals' date=' good or bad, within the community.

And hey, maybe they will add a police uniform along with the ones we have now and you guys can make a police clan or something, I don't know.

[/quote']

I like this idea, I love character customization in general, not completely sure if it would fit into day z though.

[MILLANDSON 3]

...and add in that when you kill someone it has a chance to destroy some of their gear.

Please don't do this. Full loot pvp is what makes this game unique. Removing that would be a bad decision

Where as I love the idea - it'll make it less of an incentive to kill people for their gear if it could be damaged/destroyed, which increases the incentive to team up with them to benefit not only from their gear, but having another set of eyes and guns too.

[aphex187 52]

There's a difference between not trusting someone to camping in a frikkin bush all day.

[Sminky 5]

this game needs to be handled like butterfly wings.

It would be so easy to fuck it up, it wil be interesting to see if he/ they do.

The curent impression is that those wings are getting jabed hard by grubby little fingers,