The tactical significance of sniper rifles, accumulated rebuttals and why they're here to stay

[slonlo 43]

Psh, what are you talking about, this is completely survivable... ( to be fair, this is very close range so the bullet didn't have time to stabilize fully, so it tumbled more quickly than a stabilized bullet would).

[Zoop 343]

Rocket should actually change snipers so that if they hit either your arms or legs, they destroy them. If it hits your arms, tough shit, you can't carry a gun. If it hits your leg, I hope you like crawling everywhere.

Note that I say destroy, not break. As in, morphine doesn't help and you're not regaining use of those limbs until you die and respawn.

Anything to make the whiners cry moar.

[Udak 104]

NOT ENOUGH BEANS IN THE WORLD

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

Love that AS50 video in that it contradicts pretty much every detractor in these threads. Light, easy to use and assemble, one-shot-one-kill, used to engage personnel, etc.

Though it might be cool if it had to be disassembled and reassembled for transport. I could get on board with that. Need a toolbox to use one maybe?

Anyway, thanks.

Psh, what are you talking about, this is completely survivable... ( to be fair, this is very close range so the bullet didn't have time to stabilize fully, so it tumbled more quickly than a stabilized bullet would).

No, no! Didn't you know? You have to hit their medulla oblongata! It's the size of a thumb.

:rolleyes:

Edited August 8, 2012 by ZedsDeadBaby

[Quadg 5]

one argument he didn’t cover in the op.. sniper rifles are boring...

plus in real life, you would waste all your precious ammo trying to keep the damn thing zeroed... especially after you just found it...

your average civilian European wouldn’t have a clue how to zero a military site... so you can use it. The bullets will all go in a different direction though...

I always ditch the sniper rifles for something else, when I have the chance..

my favourite from heli crashes is the silenced bizon, not as50...

and i prefer the shotguns to AR’s

don’t bother with a pistol at all anymore... use the space for bandages so they don’t fill up my pack..

Edited August 8, 2012 by Quadg

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

one argument he didn’t cover in the op.. sniper rifles are boring...

I couldn't have covered the "Quadg thinks they're boring" argument in the OP since I didn't know that until just now. Though, I'm not sure how your personal subjective opinion on their being boring informs just cause to remove them from the game? Just... don't use them? Doesn't that solve the problem?

You will forgive me if I don't include this rebuttal in the OP as I think it's rather silly and particularly specific to you.

[Udak 104]

There's a certain type that picks up and uses a sniper rifle, and that type is most assuredly patient. If you aren't, there is a suite of weapons for you to chose from.

EDIT: The kid likes bizons. There is no hope.

Edited August 8, 2012 by Udak

[Frozen (DayZ) 144]

hey OP, how you answer to that:

DayZ doesnt have weight system, meaning AMR user doesnt suffer carrying capacity penalty nor handling issues, that comes with its weight irl.

making them superior then other long range weapon.

[blaaarg 8]

Love that AS50 video in that it contradicts pretty much every detractor in these threads. Light, easy to use and assemble, one-shot-one-kill, used to engage personnel, etc.

AS50

Extremely portable. Can be put together in under 3 minutes with a simple screwdriver. Was designed with portability in mind for the Navy Seals.

Weight 31 LBS!

31lbs/14kg empty is "light and extremly portable"? Compared to what, a refrigerator?

We're talking about random guys trying to stay alive, not navy seal soldiers with the right gear, crew and (physical) training.

Atm a survivor in DayZ can carry a 14kg rifle + ~1.5kg per 10 rounds mag, 2kg axe, 5kg L85 + mags, ~1kg pistol + mag, food, water, medical supply and it left some room for a couple of 20l jerry can (or maybe some engine part?). With all of this, my char can run 10km, stop 1 min then get a perfect accuracy like nothing happend

I thing than less than 10% (probably even less) of the forum members can run a kilometer with a 20kg backpack w/o stopping to walk. Some of you can, some of you are / were in the military and have done that but it's easy to loose the edge ;)

*If* .50cal stay in the game, there has to be downside because it is a *huge* downside to carry one. It's big and heavy as hell, you can't carry all of this stuff and still be able to run for kilometers.

Edited August 8, 2012 by OuicheLorraine

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

hey OP, how you answer to that:

DayZ doesnt have weight system, meaning AMR user doesnt suffer carrying capacity penalty nor handling issues, that comes with its weight irl.

making them superior then other long range weapon.

I think that's an argument for adding a more realistic inventory and encumbrance system, not for removing the equipment from the game.

[Blindingsun 233]

31lbs/14kg empty is "light and extremly portable"? Compared to what, a refrigerator?

We're talking about random guys trying to stay alive, not navy seal soldiers with the right gear, crew and (physical) training.

Atm a survivor in DayZ can carry a 14kg rifle + ~1.5kg per 10 rounds mag, 2kg axe, 5kg L85 + mags, ~1kg pistol + mag, food, water, medical supply and it left some room for a couple of 20l jerry can (or maybe some engine part?).

I thing than less than 10% (probably even less) of the forum members can run a kilometer with a 20kg backpack w/o stopping to walk. Some of you can, some of you are / were in the military and have done that but it's easy to loose the edge ;)

30lbs is basic training backpack weight, in the united kingdom, or was when I did mine. 31lbs is not THAT heavy.

[Udak 104]

30lbs is basic training backpack weight, in the united kingdom, or was when I did mine. 31lbs is not THAT heavy.

His point is legitimate, though, as 31lbs in the hands alone makes for a beast of a time, not counting the 24 items in the bags, items in the active inventory, backup weapon the back, etc etc etc.

As Zed pointed out, that's more an argument for a revision of inventory/weight usage, rather than a simple item list--which is 100% accurate. I'd like to know how we're fitting these rotor assemblies into bags myself...

EDIT: I've ran with a 249 and that's no picnic (and only weighs ~20lbs with 100rnds)

Edited August 8, 2012 by Udak

[Charles Darwin (DayZ) 11]

one thing to remember though about the weight is that

#1 it will be in ArmA 3, and thus will almost certainly be in DZ stand alone

#2. We are talking about survivors who have already survived what appears to be weeks to months of combat with the undead, so it is likely for them to be in better shape than the average person, either because their pre-infection fitness was better, and that is why they survived, or because after weeks/months of combat they have gotten into better shape.

[miscology (DayZ) 18]

Most of these arguments are pointless.

Fix duping, retroactively remove all AS50s, and then that's the right time re-evaluate weapon balance. Right now, high powered gear is everywhere.

[beerjedi 2]

If you don't want to be sniped... Don't. Sit. In. The. Fucking. Open.

Perfectly put. Only times I've been sniped have either been

1. I was an idiot and stopped in the middle of a field

2. Hacker got me.

The number of times #2 occured? once.

Number of times #1 happened? more than i like. The instant i get cozy in my surroundings is the instant i get a new ear hole.

[Blindingsun 233]

His point is legitimate, though, as 31lbs in the hands alone makes for a beast of a time, not counting the 24 items in the bags, items in the active inventory, backup weapon the back, etc etc etc.

As Zed pointed out, that's more an argument for a revision of inventory/weight usage, rather than a simple item list--which is 100% accurate. I'd like to know how we're fitting these rotor assemblies into bags myself...

EDIT: I've ran with a 249 and that's no picnic (and only weighs ~20lbs with 100rnds)

I taught a load of Iranian Airforce soldiers how to fire some heavy weapons. barrett 50.cal is nice and light after humping it round a jungle for a month =D

[DELTA-STRIKES 0]

I agree with snipers are a great feature of this game and 2 snipe well is actually quite difficult as i tried the training mission for it in arma 2 oa and it was hard even though the targets moved one way only.

if a team uses a sniper to help them good for them but people who sit around kamenka and komarovo with snipers picking of people who are new thats just low. Like there juts doing it for the sake of killing which in my eyes is just so low, unbelievable low but thats the game there is nothing u can do to stop them so y not beat them at there own game. grab a hatchet or pistol, sneak up on them and BAM! u just got us self a sniper,

but apparently thats too hard for people theses dayz oh well there loss

[haviv[3rdid] 57]

It's just anti immersive to me, to be paranoid that someone with a .50 cal sniper is on every hill top watching me. And everyone with it seems capable enough with said man cannon to blow off my leg (in the least) and kill me.

huh? That kind of dread is exactly what you should be feeling in this game. That any second you can die if you don't know what you're doing.

[xfortune 91]

We are eliminating threats before they become dangerous.

Exactly. There's probably a large number of people who think my .50 to their face was senseless murder, as they posed no threat to me. They didn't know that they were across the street from my squadmate who is on their way back from a looting run with 7k blood and nothing but a hatchet and a backpack full of food and med supplies.

Right now, I think the only problem with sniper rifles is the duping. An AS50 is a clear 100% upgrade from any other rifle in the game, which shouldn't matter because it's supposed to be incredibly rare. However, 90% of bandit squads I go up against have 1-2+ AS50s, and my own squad of 5 people has 2-3+ at any given time (all taken off other players). And once you have an AS50, you're supplied with infinite ammo off the dupers and scripters, so there's no reason to even have a backup sniper rifle like an M24 that has more common ammo.

I think CZ550 spawn should be upped a bit, and military grade sniper rifles should be lowered a little, after duping is fixed, and ammo in general should be a lot more rare.

Edited August 8, 2012 by xFortune

[haviv[3rdid] 57]

The problem isn't that snipers exist in the game (although their power and accuracy is highly unrealistic, given that the engine is based off of a MILITARY SIMULATOR), but that zombies at this point are just too easy. If zombies could actually, once in a while, pose a threat to experienced players, more than just a irritation, then people might actually feel the need to work together rather than killing each other for fun. Note: I do not want this to be LFD

The only way zombies will be able to pose a real threat is if they are controlled by real players instead of AI.

[Soapmaker 3]

@ OP /salute

[Bottlerocket 205]

I read the OPs post - and not once does he address my main complaint about sniper rifles - they make the game too easy.

This is supposed to be set in, as my sig suggests, a horrible, brutal world. Sniper rifles take you out of that world and give you an easy mode where you can engage just about any target with little fear of risk.

The OP talks about having 'teams on overwatch' armed with sniper rifles while they go looting. How's that scenario brutal for those on the team? Short of coming up against a similarly outfitted group - and that's much rarer than these forums would suggest - there is no challenge being presented to anyone on that team by DayZ.

The snipers are safe in their little bubbles, far away from the action, while the looters have an unbeatable god backing them up who can lightning bolt anyone who gets too close. It's easy mode - and that's why they have to go, IMHO.

Imagine, if you will, that same scenario - only everyone armed with shotguns and AKs. They could never be sure that a threat could come from anywhere. Even coming across one survivor with a shotgun would be dangerous.

How much more tense would that be for the team of looters? How much more in the spirit of DayZ's avowedly brutal style of play?

"But ... tactical gameplay!" I hear you cry. But that's not DayZ, I reply. Tactics can play a part yes, but I don't think that we should have crack commando teams running around in a post-apocalyptic scenario where everyone is just trying to survive.

There is a game that uses DayZ's weapons - and engine - which does this sort of thing much, much better. The game you are looking for is called ArmaII. You should try it.

[turdferguson (DayZ) 2]

I read the OPs post - and not once does he address my main complaint about sniper rifles - they make the game too easy.

But that's fucking wrong. He did address it. Are you people seriously this stupid or are you trolling?

[Bottlerocket 205]

But that's fucking wrong. He did address it. Are you people seriously this stupid or are you trolling?

Uh .... no he didn't. Please show me the heading where it discusses "sniper rifles make the game easy mode".

Or are you yourself too fucking retarded to understand the point I'm getting across.

[turdferguson (DayZ) 2]

Uh .... no he didn't. Please show me the heading where it discusses "sniper rifles make the game easy mode".

Or are you yourself too fucking retarded to understand the point I'm getting across.

"It takes "no skill" to sit in one spot and snipe."