Banned from Eu8 for russian language

[oskis_999@hotmail.com 1]

We really do need a good answer from rocket here with the right directions to go from. Its not enough to just say racism in this discussion as its clearly not about racism in my eyes.

I dont want to sound like a douche in any way, but if I have an International server on my own. Shouldnt I be able to make it English only if I want to? It should ofc. be clearly marked as english only and everything. But I must be able to IMO. Thats not racism to me as its just a way for me to get a server where all english speaking people can come and have a great time.

I hate when I try to administrate something and the other part doesnt speak english or any other language that I know. I just can do my work right there because he cant understand me either. That is a really bad thing, as I as an Admin need to have the control on the server.

Therefore I think you should be able to only allow english chat on the server that you own and let people play on. I dont want to "ban all russians" or anything just that as a server admin you should have the ability to decide what language people should respect and speak in the chat etc.

And Im not an native english speaking person either as you probably can tell by what I did write above this. But still I know how to write so other do understand what I want to tell.

[Reliqua 10]

where all english speaking people can come and have a great time.

Only english speaking people? Why does it matter if they're not talking to you?

[oskis_999@hotmail.com 1]

where all english speaking people can come and have a great time.

Only english speaking people? Why does it matter if they're not talking to you?

If I have an international server with English only in the chat and they want to join and use the chat, then yes in my opinion. They are very welcome to come and play with me even if they dont know the english language. But they shouldnt be using the global chat as its very hard for me to understand anything at all what they are saying just as much as they cant understand me.

So as I said, they are very welcome to play but perhaps not spam the chat with non-english on an English speaking server.

[Dr Klunk 11]

1) Let people chat in channel in whatever language they want. What goes on in chat is rubbish anyway. I rather see words I can't understand than children's lingo that I DO understand.

2) Make it possible to remove the HUDtext completely in an .cfg file. The text is annoying and maybe 0.1% of what is presented there is of any use.. the rest is a waste of space.

3) Disable ALL voice activity except Direct Communication.

This game is about solitude... desolation. The chat and VOICE is cluttered with "kids" who loves to say "p*nis*, poop, piss" or any other toilet-related words, and not only does it make me irritated, it destroys the atmosphere. It gets worse for every day... and I am on the verge of stop playing alltogether.

#2 I guess is the most urgent thing, as voice is not yet fully operational.

my 2 cents ..

PS: What troubles me the most is that most of this BS and children's talk is written (or voiced) by adult men, probably 25+. Remarkable.

[oskis_999@hotmail.com 1]

The main thing with this is my lack of possibilities to run a server correctly if I dont now whats said in the chat. And I as an admin must be able to have the server in the way we need to control it (regarding language now then). It cant be a free roam of all different languages on it as I wouldnt know anything about what said and not. I wouldnt have a single clue if a non-english person said something inappropriate to me or any other player on the server.

So this is a control I must have in order to administrate a server the way people expect me to.

I have meet people from all parts of the world in my days of gaming and I dont dislike anyone just because of their native language. But in the situation Im in as a admin on some server I need to have that little control.

[shiromikan 217]

I'd like to take this thread seriously.

I'll assume you are referring to my post. (Which you didn't fully read as the main part was somewhat hidden to make my exaggeration and interpretation of your post seem more dramatic. Highlighting the text before my arrow "< -" reveals this:

"Obviously, this kind of behavior is rude and unnecessary. It's offensive to most people as well. The only situation where I think what you just now said could apply is if we had insults flying around."

[Deviant (DayZ) 43]

Wow. This thread blew up.

I can see english only speaking, if say, the server host only knew english. How would you know if someone speaking russian, or any other language, started talking about hacking the server, racism, etc.

I think it's fair that english speaking in chat could be enforced on some servers. If you want to speak russian, go on russian server.

If you don't like a particular server's rules, don't play on it. If he said "I'm banning you because you are a communist bastard", this would be a whole nother ball game ;\

[Mojo (DayZ) 66]

If I have an international server with English only in the chat and they want to join and use the chat' date=' then yes in my opinion. They are very welcome to come and play with me even if they dont know the english language. But they shouldnt be using the global chat as its very hard for me to understand anything at all what they are saying just as much as they cant understand me.

So as I said, they are very welcome to play but perhaps not spam the chat with non-english on an English speaking server.

[/quote']

I have to question the validity of this opinion. The problem I have with it is this:

If you can't understand them, there's a strong possibility that they cannot understand you.

You cannot understand them not because they're directly impeding your ability to do so, but because you've never acquired multilingual skills yourself. If they are multilingual and you are not, then this is a competency bonus that they have.

Penalizing a player for having core competencies that are external to the game is a way of demanding that they artificially handicap themselves.

Consider this: If a server administrator only has one arm, is it reasonable to demand that players with two arms tie one behind their back?

Then reconsider the language problem again: If a server administrator only speaks one language, is it reasonable to demand that players who speak two or more languages limit themselves to the limitations of the admin in the first example?

It's my view that both demands are utterly ridiculous. And, again, I reinforce that unlike the example of having one arm, players are far more likely to be unilingual.

The only other real argument that I can see towards English-only servers (or a unilingual server enforcement policy) is the argument that it obfuscates information. That is, it allows bilingual or multilingual players the ability to understand English-speaking players while speaking in a language limited only to a group that will likely band together organically.

Of course, there is a counter-argument to that too. That is, you can already obfuscate pertinent information in the side-chat as it is. Demanding that multilingual players speak in a language "everybody" can understand is equivalent to demanding all players speak plain, simple, direct, unambiguous English.

Again consider two separate scenarios:

1. A player types in chat to another player, telling him to go to "that place" to get "our stuff". The information -- the location of the place and what objects constitute stuff -- is obfuscated by using shorthand that will only be understood between those two players, with the intention that anybody eavesdropping on the conversation cannot glean pertinent information.

2. A player forced to speak in plain, unambiguous, unobfuscated English types to another player telling him to go to "the tent we have set up 100 meters directly south of the south-eastern most corner of the North-West airfield" to retrieve "a set of nightvision goggles for yourself, a set of nightvision goggles for me, two DMRs, 12 total DMR magazines, as well as our UAZ, and bring them to the field directly north of Green Mountain."

You can see how patently absurd the second scenario is. What most people don't consider is that attempting to force unilingual-only server language policies for the purposes of "understanding" is essentially attempting to enforce that second scenario.

Players are already free to obfuscate their meaning through short-hang, lingo, jargon, in-jokes, shibboleths, and challenges. All of which can be done in front of a native speaker of their language with confidence that the shorthand cannot be decyphered. Understanding is not needed and in most cases is not even desired.

No, no matter how many times I mull it over in my head, no matter how many times I attempt to challenge my position, I cannot find a single logical reason to enforce language policies on a server.

[Ciznit (DayZ) 3]

Ping blocks are fine' date=' that is indiscriminate and based on performance. But can someone please explain what isn't entirely racist about that comment.

[/quote']

I don't know if this is the best place to ask this, but its related to the topic at hand and its about the pings that some of the servers kick people at. While I understand that kicking people with ridiculous pings is necessary and all, I've found that some servers have unreasonably low ping limits for their servers that I feel are put in place specifically to keep foreigners from playing on the their servers.

The biggest example I've seen for this are the ANZ servers that have ping limits of 180. This seems like an incredibly low limit considering that you can play with a 250 ping and not really have any issues. Now I don't know if there is some technical reason that requires their ping limit to be lower than other severs whose ping limit is 300-400, but it seems like this is just done so only relatively local players can play on the servers.

[SixPackAbs 13]

i might be wrong, but wouldn't playing with 250 ping would make you lag like crazy? I never play on servers i have over 100 ping to because i don't like to get shot by guys i can't see yet.

[jorgamun 2]

Yeah, 250 ping is way too excessive for an FPS where you can kill each other so easily.

[Ciznit (DayZ) 3]

No, my friends and I were playing on a Korean server last night and none of us had issues with it. From what I can tell a lot of stuff in the game is handled on the client side so having a great connection isn't as important for this game as others. The place where it might become an issue is if you and someone else start shooting at each other at the same time. From my experience however, this doesn't seem like it happens too much in game as most PvP fights start with one player getting the jump on the other, making lag a moot point.

[Mojo (DayZ) 66]

i might be wrong' date=' but wouldn't playing with 250 ping would make you lag like crazy? I never play on servers i have over 100 ping to because i don't like to get shot by guys i can't see yet.

[/quote']

Not to much in the ArmA engine as other games.

1. Other FPSs tend to be in tight, enclosed areas where immediate reactions are necessary, or whose open areas are limited extensively both in total size and debris/structure placement. I'd hesitate to call A2 an FPS anyway, it's far more accurately described as a light milsim, though it does have first-person and you can, in fact, shoot.

2. The lack of hitscan weapons means that a player who is already dead by all rights due to the full weapons ballistics can still return fire in that short period of time and end up with both players being dead. Careful position, force multiplication, and the like are far more important than who seems whom first in ArmA 2.

Desync creates a whole other can of worms entirely, making it so that you can walk up to a player, empty a magazine directly into their head and, thanks to desync, they won't die on your screen. In that span of time, they could find your desync'd avatar, do the same to you, and when the server resynchronizes, you both end up dead.

[jorgamun 2]

No' date=' my friends and I were playing on a Korean server last night and none of us had issues with it. From what I can tell a lot of stuff in the game is handled on the client side so having a great connection isn't as important for this game as others. The place where it might become an issue is if you and someone else start shooting at each other at the same time. From my experience however, this doesn't seem like it happens too much in game as most PvP fights start with one player getting the jump on the other, making lag a moot point.

[/quote']

Oh, good point.

[sitrec@live.se 1]

I have to question the validity of this opinion.... [edited out a bit to not spam the thread too much]

At the same time, what if there were for example Swedish (just another example since everyone seems hung up on Russians) speakers on an English server talking in global about them using hacks in the game? Or maybe being racist in their own language so that the admins can't see it?

Just saying, it would be really hard to enforce these rules if the admin isn't even able to understand what is written. This isn't being racist, it's an administration issue.

I think admins should be able to have rules for languages to be used in global chat while the direct communications can be used to speak in whatever language people prefer. This way you can use your multilingual skills to prevent others from understanding and so on and so forth.

While this thread from the beginning might be about racism i just simply want to point out that not everything is related to racism and there are more views to an issue like this than just the simplest hateful one.

I speak and understand three languages but i do not use my mother tongue or my third one in chat if I'm playing at an English server. Just like i don't expect to be allowed to speak Swedish on let's say a French one. It's a matter about respecting the admins.

[Nightronin 1]

Got to thank the admin though. Way too many Russians spread out on other non-RU servers' date=' causing pure Russian havoc and a general pain in the ass. No foreign language or ban, pls.

[/quote']

I have issued Kuningas a 1 week ban from the forums.

There is nothing that I despise more in this world than racism. If people would travel a bit, they would see how similar we all are. Yes, not being able to understand creates some difficulties. But we should be tolerant, treat others as we want to be treated.

Ping blocks are fine, that is indiscriminate and based on performance. But can someone please explain what isn't entirely racist about that comment.

Regarding block/ban for language. I pretty much put racism on the same level as hacking. In fact, in many ways it is worse. I can kind of understand the reasons why someone would hack. But to dislike someone simply because you don't understand what they say, that makes no sense to me.

We don't really have a lot of rules, but this one is very strong. Please respect that rule and take it as an opportunity to learn a bit more about another culture and language.

I thought he meant about Russians killing Yankees on sight, that's cool but yeah I read it a second time, last bit is racist :/

[rocket 16567]

Fortunately' date=' in the gaming world, there is often servers for different languages, but that doesn't mean that I'm not happy for different people to play on my server and I understand it's hard to learn a different language.

(Note, Direct Chat in any language doesn't matter at all, as it's basically a private chat)

But @Rocket, please advise on this and we can sort it

[/quote']

This goes against everything the project stands for and what I believe. Maybe it is just because I've lived all over the world, but I really consider myself so lucky to have experienced so many different cultures. In the real world our geography bounds us. We apply these boundaries in the virtual world for what reason?

One of the gaming reviews talked about the reviewer teaming up with someone who spoke another language. That is what this project is about. I can understand the rules weren't clear on kicking, I have amended the page. However if this happens we will issue clarifications to such servers to ensure they understand our intent.

I don't want to be a dick about it, but I feel really strongly about this. I applaud people slaughtering each other and being crazy in the DayZ world... that is what this is about. But that shouldn't be about our culture and language out of game. Nothing pleases me more than seeing twitter posts (that I can't read) from far away places like Japan, China, (New Zealand!). I think it is amazing to share experiences with someone who you can't communicate with. In the absence of language, everything takes on significant meaning and your senses are heightened.

My experiences meeting other players who were foreign have been incredibly rewarding, even when it resulted in me dying.

Please don't kick people on the basis of language, it's really not in the spirit of the project. Everyone should be welcome to this, with only technical limitations in place such as ping to facilitate the game server experience.

I have spent only a little time with the Russian community. I hope I can spend more. They offer an amazing insight to gaming that is both familiar and foreign. It fascinates me. Their community is amazing and the intensity and way their community engages with the game is fantastic. I love all the nuances about the communities. I really want to bring this concept properly to Asia, Russia, South America. These communities are unique and amazing and I think it would be fantastic if we can really globalize things.

[Mojo (DayZ) 66]

At the same time' date=' what if there were for example Swedish (just another example since everyone seems hung up on Russians) speakers on an English server talking in global about them using hacks in the game? Or maybe being racist in their own language so that the admins can't see it?[/quote']

If they talk in global about them using hacks in the game and obfuscate their intent with a language barrier then those hacks will eventually be discovered the same way a person who uses hacks and obfuscates their message through silence gets discovered. They could just as easily a) be Russian, b) log on to an English-only server, c) say nothing to hide their unilingual capabilities and then d) hack the server.

No meaningful information is lost.

The point of the no racism rule isn't to try to take racists out of the world (and if it is it's a hilariously egotistical and pie-in-the-sky design goal), it's to stop racists from disrupting the play experience of others. If they're being racist in a language only they can understand, then nobody who could be harmed by that racism could parse that information, and the information which would be meaningful (in its intent to harm) becomes completely lost, and there is no need to kick/ban them for their actions because their actions are already self-limiting.

Add in the contradictory layer of unilateral, blanket bigotry in an effort to combat one-off, unlikely occurrences of maybe-could-possibly-happen hypothetical bigotry that is incapable of harming anybody and the argument to that becomes even more illogical.

[sitrec@live.se 1]

Fortunately' date=' in the gaming world, there is often servers for different languages, but that doesn't mean that I'm not happy for different people to play on my server and I understand it's hard to learn a different language.

(Note, Direct Chat in any language doesn't matter at all, as it's basically a private chat)

But @Rocket, please advise on this and we can sort it

[/quote']

This goes against everything the project stands for and what I believe... [edited out the rest to save space]

Just thought of something. Kicking players that have high ping is pretty much also preventing people from far away to play with people of other parts of the world isn't it?

There are plenty of countries that have less advanced internet connections than those with the faster ones, are they not allowed to play with others then? Just want to clarify, I do accept and respect your rules, just want to hear your opinion on this as it's almost the same thing as kicking because of language.

[Mojo (DayZ) 66]

Just thought of something. Kicking players that have high ping is pretty much also preventing people from far away to play with people of other parts of the world isn't it?

There are plenty of countries that have less advanced internet connections than those with the faster ones' date=' are they not allowed to play with others then? Just want to clarify, I do accept and respect your rules, just want to hear your opinion on this as it's almost the same thing as kicking because of language.

[/quote']

Save that it's not. While ping isn't as important in ArmA 2/Operation Arrowhead as it is in other games, to say that a person who has an excessively high ping (250+, say) is disrupting the play experience of others is fair. There's an issue of staying relatively in sync with the server that affects all players.

Kicking for excessively high ping (because it can disrupt the gameplay of all players) is not the same as kicking for speaking the wrong language (which causes no detriment to gameplay); it is more akin to kicking a person who is using abusive language towards all the players on the server (causing an actual detriment to gameplay).

[Nightronin 1]

Wow so much fail in this thread...

You Russians' date=' should think twice before talking that russian shit language(No Offence) in sidechat/global or group chat, its annoying as hell, When i join a US server, i expect the chat bee in english, not russian.

[/quote']

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I have a better idea. Let them speak' date=' and if the server admins don't like it? They can [b']kindly tell them to stop, and that if they continue? Then they can kick them.

If it persists I can understand why they are banned.

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if the servers rules say it's a English or whatever speaking server and u are typing away in another language u should be kicked with a warning' date=' if u come back and do it's again u should be banned...

[/quote']

I'm glad rocket commented about Languages...

My last job had a rule stating any employee speaking a language other than English will get you in serious trouble... That pissed me off! They finally removed it after so many years.

I wish racists and nationalists would stop being so high-and-mighty, because they're not.

[rocket 16567]

Just thought of something. Kicking players that have high ping is pretty much also preventing people from far away to play with people of other parts of the world isn't it?

Actually, if you watch the streams, you will see many Russians have excellent ping to US servers. When I was in NZ, I would often get pings of 80 or 90 to US West coast servers despite being a long way away. Many factors affect it.

And in fact, I think you'll find the late adopters of the internet actually win out. Places like Australia and New Zealand laid a lot of copper wire early, and they have some of the shittiest internet in the world. Some of the lower socioeconomic countries I have been too actually had awesome internet because it is all recent, newly laid fiber.

And I'm a realist, not an idealist. I don't want a project I set the vision for to be associated with racism. As said just before, not because it will make any difference (it won't) but on the basis of principle. Ping is a question of practicality, battlefield triage. Someone has to die, use a scientific method that is arbitrary. Distance does not imply culture or rare or language. It implies distance.

[sitrec@live.se 1]

Just thought of something. Kicking players that have high ping is pretty much also preventing people from far away to play with people of other parts of the world isn't it?

There are plenty of countries that have less advanced internet connections than those with the faster ones' date=' are they not allowed to play with others then? Just want to clarify, I do accept and respect your rules, just want to hear your opinion on this as it's almost the same thing as kicking because of language.

[/quote']

Save that it's not. While ping isn't as important in ArmA 2/Operation Arrowhead as it is in other games, to say that a person who has an excessively high ping (250+, say) is disrupting the play experience of others is fair. There's an issue of staying relatively in sync with the server that affects all players.

Kicking for excessively high ping (because it can disrupt the gameplay of all players) is not the same as kicking for speaking the wrong language (which causes no detriment to gameplay); it is more akin to kicking a person who is using abusive language towards all the players on the server (causing an actual detriment to gameplay).

While i do agree with this i just kind of think that kicking people because they're far away and therefore have high ping kinda contradicts the whole "let people play with everyone from everywhere" approach.

[Zombie Squirrel 5]

Myself, I don't care about the languages people write in. For exmaple, I can speak Russian, so it is only an advantage to me if russian-speaking players chat in their language - especially if they share some info they think nobody else will understand ;) Same with other languages. I actually enjoy reading the chat in other languages, e.g. on German servers (my German ain't great at all :)), trying hard to understand them chatting in German, gleaning any useful bit of information from that while being paranoid they are talking about me while being 20m on my six is fun ;-)

While in regular Arma MP, if on a coop mission, I can understand a common language is important (and so playing coop on US servers I speak only English), DayZ is bit different. It can spice up the game experience.

Anyway, IIRC the long-term plans were for the removal of global chat, no?

[sitrec@live.se 1]

Just thought of something. Kicking players that have high ping is pretty much also preventing people from far away to play with people of other parts of the world isn't it?

Actually' date=' if you watch the streams, you will see many Russians have excellent ping to US servers. When I was in NZ, I would often get pings of 80 or 90 to US West coast servers despite being a long way away. Many factors affect it.

And in fact, I think you'll find the late adopters of the internet actually win out. Places like Australia and New Zealand laid a lot of copper wire early, and they have some of the shittiest internet in the world. Some of the lower socioeconomic countries I have been too actually had awesome internet because it is all recent, newly laid fiber.

And I'm a realist, not an idealist. I don't want a project I set the vision for to be associated with racism. As said just before, not because it will make any difference (it won't) but on the basis of principle. Ping is a question of practicality, battlefield triage. Someone has to die, use a scientific method that is arbitrary. Distance does not imply culture or rare or language. It implies distance.

[/quote']

I totally understand and accept your point of view, but i do not think this is about racism (although there are obviously some that are going for the racist approach about this which i highly condemns).

There are plenty of countries with extremely bad internet connections that will not be able to play on a single server. This is extremely unfortunate for them but just like you and Mojo say this is not about racism, just like i don't think restricting languages in global also is not related to racism but rather helping admins administrate and prevent racism by being able to monitor the chat.

Just trying to point out that not everything related to different people and countries is about racism.

Thanks for posting your view on this though. Glad to see that the devs are active in the community.