The PvP Discussion Thread

[The Killing Joke 43]

People that say "Well you can do whatever a bandit can" are dead wrong' date=' the only way you can get away with killing other players as a survivor, is to kill a bandit that will more then likely have better gear then you at any time, or become a bandit, by killing other survivors, and perpetuating the problem.[/quote']

WRONG-O. Dead wrong? If you, as a survivor CAN'T do that, how do the Bandits? Special settings? I think not.

Also - under the current mechanic, Survivors become Bandits EVEN WHEN fighting off Bandits. The fix? Do away with the morality mechanic entirely. Problem SOLVED!

TKJ

[Lordtac 1]

People that say "Well you can do whatever a bandit can" are dead wrong' date=' the only way you can get away with killing other players as a survivor, is to kill a bandit that will more then likely have better gear then you at any time, or become a bandit, by killing other survivors, and perpetuating the problem.[/quote']

WRONG-O. Dead wrong? If you, as a survivor CAN'T do that, how do the Bandits? Special settings? I think not.

Also - under the current mechanic, Survivors become Bandits EVEN WHEN fighting off Bandits. The fix? Do away with the morality mechanic entirely. Problem SOLVED!

TKJ

Possibly, but then no one can be trust worthy, and everyone can easily kill everyone else, I'm actually more ok with this. But team-work becomes even more discouraged, and random Modern Warfare style PVP becomes more prevalent due to the lack of consequence and the high reward.

And lets not forget... without the humanity skin switching system, there'd be absolutely no way to tell the difference between someone fresh off the boat and someone that just committed mass genocide.

[The Killing Joke 43]

And lets not forget... without the humanity skin switching system' date=' there'd be absolutely no way to tell the difference between someone fresh off the boat and someone that just committed mass genocide.

[/quote']

That... ...is the WORST part of it. By KNOWING who does wrong, they're unfairly targeted.

There are two sides, and I understand (BELIEVE ME, I understand) why people cry, "if everybody LOOKS THE SAME, who do we trust?! It'll be ANARCHY!!!" I say nay. I say, "if everybody looks the same, then you choose your friends, and traveling companions, much more carefully."

And I think that's the way it should be.

Consider this: there are a LOT of Bandit Teams joining up right now. You know what? They're NOT killing each other. There's no dishonor within it. Why? Because they're worried about Survivors killing them at face value. Now, you have a large force of people you KNOW will do what they want to survive.

The key is, NOBODY can tell you what will happen. Not with 100% certainty. (I know I had a back-and-forth with someone who DID, it was ridiculous.) The thing I would like to see is no humanity settings. The game is too short, and it's SUPPOSED to be. It's not a campaign. It's not a game you're supposed to win! It's supposed to be short, violent, and enjoyable.

My two cents. Everybody can, and will, have their own opinion.

TKJ

[Reklin 56]

Honestly I don't really see how skins change much at all.

With skins: Survivors shoot bandits on sight just because they're too far into the "possibly can't be trusted" spectrum. And most bandits become bandits because of self-defense, and then end up having to shoot every survivor and other bandit on sight because of my earlier point.

Without skins: Most people still shoot on sight, still just as much distrust between players, possibly even more because you can't tell who's new or hasn't gotten many kills.

To me it all seems the same. So the only gripe I have with skins currently is that the bandit skin is horrendous for the terrain and we stick out far too much, and that I dislike being forced into a role, because being a bandit means I have to shoot on sight because as soon as they see me they'll start shooting anyway. Atleast with a larger variety of skins or no skins at all I can still attempt to mould my character however I'd like with no "preset impression" I'm giving out to other players.

[metal_izanagi 3]

Any way you handle the current system, it's not good for a large number of people. Either a more complex system, or less incentive for bandits to go around murdering everyone with no regard, would be an acceptable change.

[The Killing Joke 43]

...or less incentive for bandits to go around murdering everyone with no regard' date=' would be an acceptable change.[/quote']

Someone made a good point in another thread, stating that the 'Average Life Expectancy' is now up and over 5 hours, and this is (possibly) because bandits are not as viable any more since the single-player now needs to be wary that their one shot might bring a horde down on them.

This is as it should be, and would go a long way to what you're looking for.

TKJ

[theboneranger 1]

I have played the game for 34 hours (20 or so lives maybe) now before deciding to comment. I am still a survivor. I am sure that I have made several other survivors into bandits (or put them well on their way) because I don't shoot other survivors. In fact, I have been murdered by just a single bandit that I could see. Possibly three, two deaths were from unknown positions. Fully six encounters with other survivors ended in me respawning to tell them what dicks they are. This game needs direct chat to work. Both voice and type. Especially on HC servers (which I prefer) where every survivor is just another dude in a hat with no way to identify himself.

I like the idea of the humanity system. I will shoot a bandit on sight. But now that I'm all tooled out, if I'm not with my regular group (maybe even if I am) I'm shooting anyone who doesn't gtfo of my/our vicinity. Many have said there needs to be a greater incentive to not PK, and until there is I believe we will all inevitably become bandits. What is the point of a survivor skin if every survivor will kill you because it's just too risky to trust them. So far, the only incentive to not kill others is that there is safety in numbers, from both zombies and bandits. This game breeds mistrust. What it lacks is some mechanic that makes you want to trust.

Someone proposed a skill tree idea (that I think got moved to this thread? can't find it on search) that was spot on. Medic, Engineer etc. with skillsets that provide both selfish and selfless benefits. Earn points by performing actions within the class skillset, ie. every 10 transfusions you get a medic skill. Proposed Medic skills:

1. Can use bandage, morphine, and pills twice on other players.

2. Can use one bag of blood twice on other players

3. Daily spawn of medical supplies in tent. (If you have a tent)

4. Can transfuse self.

You have to figure if your playing the game with any regularity, making it to the fourth skill before death will be nigh on impossible. And even if you have players farming supplies just to increase skills, they're going to have to get them from some very dangerous places. Not to mention these skills are really only useful in PVE considering one or two rounds from a well-equipped player end a life.

Anywho, I'm all for the PVP. Zombies are good for scares and all, but the PVP has provided the most exciting and rewarding experiences I've had thus far. Really though, from what I can tell Direct chat is broken completely and until that is fixed there's no hope of playing with strangers.

Edit: I hope I don't sound like an ass. I'm really enjoying this game and appreciate all the work that's gone into it. I guess I'm just hoping for a little more role play in my survival horror.

[metal_izanagi 3]

I do agree with the way the zombie count has been increased. It makes /any/ shooting a last resort, which is a lot more realistic than the previous Dead Island-style "three zombies show up, shoot them, keep going" thing. If BI really works with Rocket on this, possibly with some engine improvements for even more zombies, it'd be great to have shambling hordes and small packs of the current Dawn Of The Dead(2004) sprinters.(And the odd jockey-type frog-hopping dude now and then. Definitely saw one of those when I first started.)

Didn't mean to get so hot-headed before; not enough sleep lately, waking up at odd hours, etc. Sorry 'bout that, and thanks for not being too hard on me over it. :)

Edit: Direct chat as in private messages? That sounds like a recipe for harassment and whining, imo. It's bad enough when you have people advertising their locations constantly in group chat; I don't need people bugging me one-on-one about how I should totally trust them even though they're a bandit. Wouldn't do it myself, but it also opens the avenue for people to relentlessly whine if someone kills them after they've done well for themselves, gotten a rifle or something, etc. /That/ would piss anyone off to no end, without a doubt, to have someone crying at them privately like that. If you want private chats with your clan/friends, use Skype or something.

[theboneranger 1]

Direct chat as in private messages?

The Direct Communication Channel. Only people within earshot can read or hear what is being said. With voice it actually increases and decreases volume depending on distance from speaker. You would be able to tell the guy you just stumbled across you're not intending harm and move along your way before he decides to shoot you. Or tell him to surrender if you're so inclined. Or ask someone nearby for help without announcing your location to the entire server.

I do use Skype with my friends, even a few guys I've met in servers. That doesn't help with communicating with everyone else. You've been there. You and your friends are at a location, you see another person and decide to ask friend or foe. On a normal server you can call them by name. On a hardcore server you have to announce their location (and therefore your general vicinity) to everyone just so they know you're speaking to them. That is a problem when bandits are about. And bandits are always about.

[Gruelius 16]

the issues are that people treat it like real life whereas others do not and dont care about multiple deaths and that communication in game is pretty poor for avoiding conflict.

But yes z's with better hearing would work a treat.

[metal_izanagi 3]

boneranger, that sounds like it'd be pretty interesting. Kind of dumb to not be able to even see a person's name, though. It's not even remotely realistic, considering there's group chat, oh right, and you're playing a video game.

[theboneranger 1]

That will illustrate the direct chat channel. It is a thing that exists. Were it to work, all other chat channels could and should be disabled. I agree though, it's really dumb to not to be able to see a person's name when you look at them. And my mother told me I was silly to tattoo my name on my forehead.

Regarding this being a video game, I am aware; however, for the last decade I have been listening to tech developers and media outlets claim immersion as the end all be all of video games. To make you feel like you're really there. BI has provided us with powerful software for tactical simulation. Rocket has taken that software and is providing us with a zombie apocalypse simulation. And yet, in what is and could be the most immersive game I've ever played, I have never met so many people so eager to remind us that "It's just a game." Finally I get to play something that doesn't feel like a glorified fetch quest, with glowing halos and telltale sparkles to illuminate the path and the goal. I take it back. Day Z is not a game. Games impose rules. Day Z is a place where players make rules. That is what is so awesome about this. /offtopic

[The Killing Joke 43]

Regarding this being a video game' date=' I am aware; however, for the last decade I have been listening to tech developers and media outlets claim immersion as the end all be all of video games. To make you feel like you're really there. BI has provided us with powerful software for tactical simulation. Rocket has taken that software and is providing us with a zombie apocalypse simulation. And yet, in what is and could be the most immersive game I've ever played, I have never met so many people so eager to remind us that "It's just a game." Finally I get to play something that doesn't feel like a glorified fetch quest, with glowing halos and telltale sparkles to illuminate the path and the goal. I take it back. Day Z is not a game. Games impose rules. Day Z is a place where players make rules. That is what is so awesome about this.[/quote']

I.. I.. I think I love you. Marry me, and I'll bare your children.

:D

TKJ

[raptorak 2]

Ignore the care-bears, or ruin the game. Ultima Online, Everquest, WoW, DayZ?

[Tiger205 48]

I'm sure this has been covered several times by now but whatever - I want a fresh opinion especially since there are more zombies again.

Question is simple - what goes through the heads of all those retarded bandits who camp Chernogorsk/Elektrozavodsk or just coasts in general, killing essentially harmless survivors because let's be honest - you won't kill someone with a Makarov when the guy has a CZ 550 and is at least 200m away. Mind you I don't have anything against "legit" bandits who kill for loot such as better weapons or equipment but most of the retarded bandits on the coasts just shoot people, they don't even bother coming to check the bodies for any stuff. That's the first thing. Second thing - I'd say people would be willing to cooperate a bit more since zombie numbers have gone up again and surviving in a group would be easier. Third thing - why bother shooting them at all if you're not going to even check what they had. It's a nonsensical waste of ammunition and if someone says "for fun" I don't see how picking off a defensless target with a Makarov and two bean cans is fun or challenging. I know that there are some "good bandits", right now I'm looking at the CPC dudes on EU7, but other than these people I just wish I could fire up that T-34 in Chernogorsk and run over every known retarded bandit in the mod. Hell, even if that was my only job, I couldn't do anything else and that T-34 would come with me to every server I would still do it.

One will ask where this rant came from. It's simple - today I tried to be Goody McGoodshoes and I tried to help people. First I encountered some CPC dudes in Stary Sobor and I helped them clear out the tents there. Sadly I died there because zombies decided to respawn right on my face and kept hitting me through the tents. So coincidentally I respawned near Chernogorsk. I died twice I think to the same retarded bandit who was only camping on one of the silos and didn't even bother to change his position or at least try to come down and loot the bodies. Of course people will say I should've killed him since he didn't change his position but I dare you to kill someone with a Makarov at 200m or 300m, but that's beside the point.

What enraged me the most was when I heard some gunshots and saw a lot of zombies running towards the hospital near the field hospital in Chernogorsk. I said to myself hell why the hell not and proceeded to walk in the direction of those zombies and picking them off one by one. When I was done I saw two people - a bandit and a survivor - on the side bulding thing near the hospital. I was just staring at them with my Makarov not even aiming close to them and the survivor just shot me in the head with his .45 revolver.

Double U Tee Eff

Why the fuck did he do that? I just helped them clear out several zombies and they just kill me despite I just helped them and had only a Makarov on myself?

tl;dr Why do people keep killing each other even though they don't even bother to check bodies for loot, have only Makarovs and beans or when you help them. And is being a dick to everything the only option despite the increased numbers of zombies.

/rant

[deadbolt (DayZ) 10]

to create more bandits of course

[metal_izanagi 3]

I'd like to know this as well. It's put me off of the game for now. PvP is fine, but it's not PvP when you're just killing to kill, and not even trying to get anything out of it. There's no experience system, you don't get a medal for killing people that are pretty much harmless to you, and it makes you look like a dick, not just in-game, but out of the game as well. As I said in another thread, if the only reason you're playing the game is to get some cheap kicks from killing people that have no chance, you should first off be banned from every server, and secondly, your name should be put on a wall of shame pointing out to everyone the kind of people, and the kind of behavior behavior, that make/makes the mod look bad.

Also, this isn't really a PvP thread, so it shouldn't be deleted.

[pepperkorn@gmail.com 94]

to some, having more makarov ammo, an extra water flask, and other starting gear is worth it, but only when I just spawn.

But that's my opinion, and I only shoot players with bandit skins.. unfortunately I'm still at around -15000 humanity but that's besides the point.

I've come across some people who don't shoot at me first sight and I don't kill them. A friendly salute and I'm on my way. However I agree with you, I was getting sniped by some guy with night vision and a sniper at spawn.

[deadbolt (DayZ) 10]

pvp is simply killing of other players regardless of intentions

just because you dont like what they are doing doesnt mean they should be banned

[metal_izanagi 3]

When the intention is nothing more than "because I could" or "it pisses them off" it's called griefing, and most /decent/ communities frown upon that shit, because it makes the mod look petty, it makes the playerbase look bad, and it makes the developer look really bad for allowing it to continue.

[deadbolt (DayZ) 10]

the intention is irrelevant, either way you were killed by them

whether or not they wanted your beans has no further affect on you

people will kill you for no reason

People will kill you for your gear

both situations people are dying

[Napoleon Solo 10]

I encountered a bandit newbie killer on a roof in Elektro. As soon as he realized he was spotted he changed position, but I got him on a hill right outside town. He had some great stuff on him. Too bad the stats didn't save.

[brandmon 0]

Need I say more?

[Chrischn 3]

Oh my god he killed me, a harmless, hard-working, survivor! Ban him!

Get over yourselves! It is a ruthless game with a lot of ruthless peole playing it. If you can't handle it don't play it or find a way to make your situation better by yourself and not crying for a ban everytime something displeases you...

[metal_izanagi 3]

That doesn't even address my previous post. It's very damn relevant when you have spawns being camped by griefers, or random killings even when people are helpful, because it puts people off of trying to get into the mod, and makes being "good" and not a mass-murderer a fairly bad choice for survival, something that just doesn't happen in reality.

It has a lot of effect on me, btw. It's no fun to spawn, get shot in the head, go through the loading process again, spawn again, get shot AGAIN, rinse, repeat. It might be fun for the little bastard sitting in a crane sniping people, but it's not even remotely fun for the people he keeps griefing. The mod should be developed so that /everyone/ can have fun, and not just a select few that manage to get their hands on decent gear and kill everything in sight.

It'd be different if it were an MMO, and the people that kill indiscriminately were actually getting something, like experience points. All they're getting is a giggle and the knowledge that other players aren't enjoying the game.