The PvP Discussion Thread

[munchy 9]

I'm all for a bit of PvP but I get the "feel" that I'm not in the majority here??

[cm. (DayZ) 28]

I like it... it's the wasteland. PvP is part of life there.

[cuel 2]

There's several threads about PvP already.

[exetick 11]

you have to pvp to survive sometimes. but you get marked as a pvper and you will get killed instantly when a Anti pvp guy find you.

[Blitzy 12]

I, like many of us, try to avoid PvP confrontations at all costs. I understand and appreciate why PvP exist. I just have much higher priorities.

I began playing this game purely because DayZ's all about 'survival'. In my understanding, that's all about staying alive and away from the undead hordes and doing whatever's possible to remain out of danger. This is a game where a player's entire progress can be completely erased by a single zombie or a single bullet; I therefore prefer not having to restart my character every couple of hours, particularly because of hunters killing purely 'for sport'. I prefer to survive.

Sure, I'm fine with the PvP mechanic - it adds a lot to the atmosphere with its stress-inducing paranoia levels. I'm never going to ask the developers to remove it.

But that doesn't mean I'll ever respect Hunters. As a Hunter, you're erasing a player's entire progress (hours, days, weeks) in one blow - for your own selfish wants and needs. In a post-apocalyptic situation which tests the very foundations of humanity, here are people who give no regard for others (or the time/effort they've put into their characters) and are prepared to take it all away all for the sake of 'scoring a kill'. Bored of shooting the braindead zombies, they simply feel an urge to fuck real players over.

If you want to kill people, I won't protest against your ability to do so - that's just a part of the game. But if you're prepared to kill humans and screw them over (especially when it's just 'for sport'), don't get annoyed when everyone outs you as a total 'I don't give a crap about anyone else but myself' player-killing douchebag and no-one wants to play with you either.

[WebCole 2]

I ask myself what this mod be without PvP. My answer is pretty dull.

And not because I like to go around popping fools at every opportunity before anyone starts :P

My point is if you don't have that possibility of conflict with other survivors suddenly the game loses so much of its flavour, its tension and a lot of its hook.

On the flip side, I think it should be made less desirable to just kill everyone you meet.

My 0.02

[atc86 46]

PVP makes being stealthy even more important.

I like the pvp aspect to this mod, it keeps it interesting, having to avoid people when you hear gunshots.. or find them and decide if they are friendly or not, the suspense is what makes this mod awesome. Without pvp I think I would get bored of this after a couple of weeks, but with pvp this is a mod I will be playing for some time.

[SSG Izo 4]

My thoughts, PvP is an essential part of the mod. However, there is a difference between entertaining and none entertaining PvP.

If someone says to me, "hey.. you guy at X doing Y i've got you in my scope, put drop your gear on the ground and move south or i'll shoot you" Then im perfectly fine with it.

Shot by a canned bean killer fresh out of elektro thinking he's playing sniper elite with his newly looted CZ 550 without any communication or interaction beforehand, its not as much fun.

I have no problem getting killed or killing for that matter if there is some kind of RP or communication involved, randomly killing for the sake of killing just doesnt seem like fun for me.

[capitol 2]

I thought about this earlier and decided that dayZ without pvp would be like GTA without police. anyone whos played any of the gta titles would have tried that at one point and gotten bored after half an hour. you really do need that competitive element to a game to keep you on your toes and keep it exciting.

[Freyar 8]

I've screwed around a bit already and frankly I find "PvP" to be entirely required for this kind of game or mod. Being a former EvE Online player, I find myself easily paranoid about anyone and everyone (especially newer characters, of which are the only kinds I've seen so far). End result, anyone I can't trust, I've ended up killing. Granted, this has resulted in a lot of others just randomly shooting at me as well, but it's part of the scenario. If you have something I need (or hell, really want), I'll likely take the safest route to get it from you. That something ranges from space, to buildings, to stashes, to anything that I can use. If you want to make yourself useful, by all means make the offer, but I'll assume hostile otherwise.

[-Ding- 0]

PvP is pretty essential, I know my heart pounds when I glimpse another player in the middle of nowhere, or I see a bandit cross my path on the way into Cherno.

Makes it all the more exciting

[Gontak 1]

I don't have any intention of killing anyone for their stuff, or out of spite or selfishness.

However I love the fact that pvp exists, it makes the game far more tense than it would be if I was to go to the airfield and just have to take a few zombies down, knowing that players could be there, and they might not be taking any risks makes the game really good, also the fact hat it brings a really big human element into the game, trust, adds great enjoyment.

The fact I choose to play as unselfish or unruthless makes the game even more rewarding than if i was to play it as a bit of a bastard (For me personally anyway) because hewn you do run into those guys who are like you it's more rewarding.

[griffinz 2816]

Ultimately, the choice is down to the player...there are many ways of surviving, and some people have chosen the PvP path. We cannot hold it against them, as it cannot be proven to be better or worse than any other way.

Very interesting, however; the community started as friendly and helpful, and is now distrusting and dishonest. Much like the "Lord of the Flies" story. It's evolution, baby!

[Freyar 8]

Ultimately' date=' the choice is down to the player...there are many ways of surviving, and some people have chosen the PvP path. We cannot hold it against them, as it cannot be proven to be better or worse than any other way.

Very interesting, however; the community started as friendly and helpful, and is now distrusting and dishonest. Much like the "Lord of the Flies" story. It's evolution, baby!

[/quote']

It's amusing what outside influences can do to a perspective though. I haven't been with this mod longer than a few hours so far (stats show less than 30 minutes played, though I've been fiddling here and there with it anyway). While I've only been actively attacked twice, I found myself seeing everything from the perspective of an EvE-O player.

[griffinz 2816]

Ultimately' date=' the choice is down to the player...there are many ways of surviving, and some people have chosen the PvP path. We cannot hold it against them, as it cannot be proven to be better or worse than any other way.

Very interesting, however; the community started as friendly and helpful, and is now distrusting and dishonest. Much like the "Lord of the Flies" story. It's evolution, baby!

[/quote']

It's amusing what outside influences can do to a perspective though. I haven't been with this mod longer than a few hours so far (stats show less than 30 minutes played, though I've been fiddling here and there with it anyway). While I've only been actively attacked twice, I found myself seeing everything from the perspective of an EvE-O player.

I. myself, am a Gallentian in another life. This is indeed an open-ended community-driven game. Without PvP, this mod would feel empty and dull.

It's the old carrot-on-a-stick mentality; people believe that after they die, their next character will be the one that goes on to get the best equipment, build a following, and control an area of their very own, and live for weeks/months without a death!

It never happens, of course (not yet), but that fact is that it is possible.

[chaostactical 4]

i agree with griff, PvP adds that element other zombie games dont have, when you die, you can learn from your past mistakes, and build on them!

[Panzerfaust (DayZ) 5]

PvP is absolutely essential in my view. It adds a LOT of tension and atmosphere to the game (Can you really trust that guy you teamed up with?), and it provides another way to play the game (albeit a very live by the sword, die by the sword way).

I think removing or nerfing it would hurt the game much more than it would help it.

(I'm Caldari, HAM Drake FTW)

[Neccrid 0]

I've been shot and killed a few times now, multiple times without even having the chance to see my attacker and or defend myself. I'd much prefer a little more communication but even though its gotten me pretty upset, it adds a great tension to the game and I wouldnt want it gone. This mod is fantastic.

[diabolusitano 2]

I belive that most of the bandits we see in game now just made ONE bad choice...

I've turn bandit in the first update with the skin change and morality counter and i didn't heven knew of that new feature. The thing is that i had to kill a survivor like me and i droped from 2k+ of morality to - 800 with ONE kill. Now i'm stuck in a bandit skin and had to kill more survivors, and i don't want to do that, i want to become survival again... But here the tricky thing... I cant do it because i cant go near a survivor without geting killed. So im forced to kill more survivors... But i need them to get morality back up. Can you see the vicious circle here!? Im a survivor stuck in a bandit skin, and i can't do nothing about it.

[oktyabr 53]

I would never want to see the PVP component removed. Rather I'd like to see the non-PVP aspects improved and made more complex. This should be a fun game to play even if you are the only one on the server and yet I read a lot of comments (in this thread and others) where people use the words "bored" and "dull" a lot... When PVP is the most exciting game in town it's the one that everyone will want to play. When PVP is the best game in town (the most exciting aspect) it will attract PVP'ers. When zombie survival is the highlight you will see more people playing to survive zombies.

[tpenn 9]

Being a former EvE Online player' date=' [/quote']

Then you know how horribly broken and what kind of mess the PVP system is in right now in this game - it was the same as EVE early betas before they put in an aggro and CONCORD system. The game nearly died in those stages because asshats (the ones that exist in every game just to grief others) would simply kill everything in sight.

Over however many years since then, we can take a page from developers who have been at this problem for the better part of a decade: Keep the PVP system alive but in-check; aim to fix it sooner rather than later after griefers/excessive PKers alienate the playerbase and kill the mod; lastly, enforce whatever system is created (meaning kicks and global bans for anyone who exploits the system).

Humanity is a good start (similar to EVE's standings system), but the next steps are needed. To take directly and unabashedly from EVE: sections of Chernarus can be deemed "badlands" (EVE's "low security systems") where anything goes and no hits to humanity, everywhere else, the PVP system is in effect (EVE's "high security systems"). It's even possibly to emulate CONCORD (EVE's way of allowing but quickly neutralizing PVP): have bandit aggression against non-bandits trigger a horde spawn (rational: hordes are attracted by excessive gunfire), then have bandits become higher-priority targets for zeds (rational: infected can smell pheromones produced by aggression and rage, attracting them to the aggressor).

Definitely, PVP needs to be an element to the mod, but a secondary one, not the current center-stage kill-all gameplay that is taking over this mod.

[Gontak 1]

I don't think it would be great to have designated 'pvp areas'. Keep pvp as is, it's not a kill for all, groups can be made and have been made, even today. Most people realise that when working together in groups they can achieve much more than simply killing those they come across. However you will always have groups who kill, but most players I've met either save my ass, or shoot at me not because they want my stuff but because they're scared of me doing it to them first. PVP should be a joint primary thing up with the Zombies, I wouldn't want it reduced, and I'm not even playing for PVP purposes.

[Panzerfaust (DayZ) 5]

Being a former EvE Online player' date=' [/quote']

Then you know how horribly broken and what kind of mess the PVP system is in right now in this game - it was the same as EVE early betas before they put in an aggro and CONCORD system. The game nearly died in those stages because asshats (the ones that exist in every game just to grief others) would simply kill everything in sight.

Over however many years since then, we can take a page from developers who have been at this problem for the better part of a decade: Keep the PVP system alive but in-check; aim to fix it sooner rather than later after griefers/excessive PKers alienate the playerbase and kill the mod; lastly, enforce whatever system is created (meaning kicks and global bans for anyone who exploits the system).

Humanity is a good start (similar to EVE's standings system), but the next steps are needed. To take directly and unabashedly from EVE: sections of Chernarus can be deemed "badlands" (EVE's "low security systems") where anything goes and no hits to humanity, everywhere else, the PVP system is in effect (EVE's "high security systems"). It's even possibly to emulate CONCORD (EVE's way of allowing but quickly neutralizing PVP): have bandit aggression against non-bandits trigger a horde spawn (rational: hordes are attracted by excessive gunfire), then have bandits become higher-priority targets for zeds (rational: infected can smell pheromones produced by aggression and rage, attracting them to the aggressor).

Definitely, PVP needs to be an element to the mod, but a secondary one, not the current center-stage kill-all gameplay that is taking over this mod.

Sorry, no. I think I would stop playing the mod if this happened. You're probably one of those who makes a habit out of repeatedly dying in very expensive ships because you don't realize that EVE (likewise with this mod) is built on risk from top to bottom by design. Hate it or love it, EVE is a million times more exciting then something WoW-esque because any direct interaction with others carries an element of risk, you will lose things you worked for if you die, and nowhere, not even high-sec, is completely safe.

This mod, and EVE, are best thought of as virtual renderings of Mos Eisley. It's a rough place in general, there are many bad people around, and even the nicer ones may eventually try and screw you over. This mod is currently a high-tension balance between surviving the zombie onslaught and the uncertainty of dealing with your still-human neighbors, and marginalizing either one of the two elements (as you suggest) in this equation would do serious harm to the game in my view.

The fact that even a single player kill that isn't viewed as self-defense by the game can send you plunging into bandit territory has already done enough damage to the latter, and it doesn't need to be hurt any further.

Reducing the PVP element to a gamey arena type system where certain areas are cordoned off so rich players with spare equipment to throw around can shoot at each other and making everywhere else Equestria with zombies is entirely against the grain of this mod and would kill all of the excitement for me (and many others, I'm sure.)

[tpenn 9]

Sorry' date=' [i']no. I think I would stop playing the mod if this happened. You're probably one of those who makes a habit out of repeatedly dying in very expensive ships because you don't realize that EVE (likewise with this mod) is built on risk from top to bottom by design. Hate it or love it, EVE is a million times more exciting then something WoW-esque because any direct interaction with others carries an element of risk, you will lose things you worked for if you die, and nowhere, not even high-sec, is completely safe.

This mod, and EVE, are best thought of as virtual renderings of Mos Eisley. It's a rough place in general, there are many bad people around, and even the nicer ones may eventually try and screw you over. This mod is currently a high-tension balance between surviving the zombie onslaught and the uncertainty of dealing with your still-human neighbors, and marginalizing either one of the two elements (as you suggest) in this equation would do serious harm to the game in my view.

The fact that even a single player kill that isn't viewed as self-defense by the game can send you plunging into bandit territory has already done enough damage to the latter, and it doesn't need to be hurt any further.

Reducing the PVP element to a gamey arena type system where certain areas are cordoned off so rich players with spare equipment to throw around can shoot at each other and making everywhere else Equestria with zombies is entirely against the grain of this mod and would kill all of the excitement for me (and many others, I'm sure.)

Let me guess, you're some sort of failpirate, suicide ganker or gatecamper? I don't play anymore, when I did I was the type who'd probably bait and outsmart you all without stooping down to your level.

In any matter, where got "arena"s from was your idea not mine, if you go back and actually read what I said no where did I say limit PVP to arenas, and if you knew how EVE was played you'd know PVP isn't done that way there either. There is ALWAYS risk inherent, but yet there isn't ALWAYS killing as this mod's pvp is turning into.

Secondly consider that EVE is largely designed around PVP with environment and NPC elements merely a distraction, whereas this mod is the complete opposite: environment and zombies are the center-stage, PVP is there simply to add the dimension of surviving (but surviving PVP is not the core element).

You can still have ever-present PVP risk without having ALWAYs present PVP.

[Panzerfaust (DayZ) 5]

Sorry' date=' [i']no. I think I would stop playing the mod if this happened. You're probably one of those who makes a habit out of repeatedly dying in very expensive ships because you don't realize that EVE (likewise with this mod) is built on risk from top to bottom by design. Hate it or love it, EVE is a million times more exciting then something WoW-esque because any direct interaction with others carries an element of risk, you will lose things you worked for if you die, and nowhere, not even high-sec, is completely safe.

This mod, and EVE, are best thought of as virtual renderings of Mos Eisley. It's a rough place in general, there are many bad people around, and even the nicer ones may eventually try and screw you over. This mod is currently a high-tension balance between surviving the zombie onslaught and the uncertainty of dealing with your still-human neighbors, and marginalizing either one of the two elements (as you suggest) in this equation would do serious harm to the game in my view.

The fact that even a single player kill that isn't viewed as self-defense by the game can send you plunging into bandit territory has already done enough damage to the latter, and it doesn't need to be hurt any further.

Reducing the PVP element to a gamey arena type system where certain areas are cordoned off so rich players with spare equipment to throw around can shoot at each other and making everywhere else Equestria with zombies is entirely against the grain of this mod and would kill all of the excitement for me (and many others, I'm sure.)

Let me guess, you're some sort of failpirate, suicide ganker or gatecamper? I don't play anymore, when I did I was the type who'd probably bait and outsmart you all without stooping down to your level.

In any matter, where got "arena"s from was your idea not mine, if you go back and actually read what I said no where did I say limit PVP to arenas, and if you knew how EVE was played you'd know PVP isn't done that way there either. There is ALWAYS risk inherent, but yet there isn't ALWAYS killing as this mod's pvp is turning into.

Secondly consider that EVE is largely designed around PVP with environment and NPC elements merely a distraction, whereas this mod is the complete opposite: environment and zombies are the center-stage, PVP is there simply to add the dimension of surviving (but surviving PVP is not the core element).

You can still have ever-present PVP risk without having ALWAYs present PVP.

People will PVP in this game primarily for one of two reasons: They are trying to avoid being shot at themselves, or they're trying to shoot someone else for the gear they have; i.e, to benefit themselves.

People on both sides of the fence should know this and by trying to lift CONCORD out of EVE and drop it in here by magically spawning a zombie horde anywhere there's non-consensual PVP (which from what I've read is anywhere outside of your badlands) will kill free-world PVP because there is far more risk than reward for the aggressor (an M4 isn't worth getting 50 zombies spawned on your ass if you shoot the guy carrying it) and those who wish to avoid PVP in the first place will realize that and consequently not have anything to worry about.

The implication there is that if you want to PVP you go to these areas, if you don't want to you go somewhere else and you're fine. Hence, arenas.

We already have what you say you want, the risk of PVP is always present, but PVP itself is not always present. I'm afraid the map is far too large for that, especially if your server isn't full. Likewise in EVE, if you ever bothered to check the Ships Destroyed in Last Hour option on the star map you'd know that as well.

As for my EVE profession, I've been playing for close to three years, and I live in wormholes where people know the risk of being there and the ones that live to fly another day are the ones who are smart enough to know that simply by being logged into the game they are subjecting themselves to a certain amount of risk.

As far as EVE being built for PVP, you're wrong. EVE is built to give open-world PVPers a CHANCE, not a playground. Piracy in EVE is simply one of many professions people pursue in EVE. The environment isn't just for hugs and giggles either, PI, mining, and ratting are testaments to that.

In either game, the people who are not intelligent enough or not cautious enough to adapt to the risks of the game environment generally won't last long.

Your last paragraph regarding this mod is ultimately subjective and the only opinion that really matters in the end when it comes to this matter is that of the people making the game. The reality of the gameplay currently though is that both elements are closely interlocked with one another and I believe my opinions are echoed by those developing the mod when I say that they are both equally important and pushing either one to the side is foolishness.