This game will fail long term if the PK problem isnt addressed

[ajbader@umich.edu 7]

Re-adding the bandit skins and humanity counter back will reduce the number of player kills significantly. It still will be PvP but with less killing becaise people will want to stay as survivors. People already noted the number of murders went up when bandit skins where taken off. Find a way to reimplement them, they don't have to be the same, but I think having bandits and survivors will significantly reduce the number of kills and perhaps improve the overall experience.

[Eldo (DayZ) 7]

People always respond to these threads in a really mature manner.

Sarcasm aside; the OP makes a few good points. If DayZ wants to be truly successful as a whole the Dev team should look into catering to all aspects of the player base. I myself enjoy the PvP aspect as it provides a nice bit of challenge but by no means should I be forced to play in a PvP server at all times.

There should be PvP and PvE servers which cannot interact. PvE servers will simply be for people who like to work together and stock pile gear. Maybe increase the zombie ratio for more challenge?

Regardless, anyone who just says "lol dis game iznt fer u" is just stupid. Games are defined by being able to play and enjoy it how you want. If the OP wants a way to only play PvE with his buddies then he should be able to do it.

Also too heavy of a PvP focus will ruin the real ambiance and point behind the game. Player interaction is a driving force behind DayZ. When people shoot on site for no reason a large part of the player interaction aspect is diminished. Eventually DayZ will devolve into a pure PvP game with random zombies running around that no one really cares about. It won't be unique anymore.

A PvE server is the biggest joke I've heard all day, the suggestion is so poorly thought out it's laughable. Say I'm a bandit, I love killing, I waltz into a PvE server and just straight up walk around the NW airfield grabbing high powered sniper rifles, now I switch back to my favorite PvP server, and wreck some people in Chernogorsk. Now, that same weapon would be much harder to retrieve on a PvP server because of PvP. This game is not for PvE it's for PvP it's so blatantly I don't know how you don't realize this. Let me give you the equivalent of what you are doing with another game, it's like going into Call of Duty and saying, I want all the players removed and only have recruit npcs because this is too hard and this is the way I want it and all games should revolve around what I want to do. It's just so ignorant it's as laughable as your suggestion. It's a realistic zombie survival game, do you understand that that means I can do what I want? If i want to kill everyone I see I can, or I can be a friendly fool who gets killed every time they talk to someone and comes here and complains and then does what you are doing. This whole ordeal is so plain silly I can't tell if your trolling me.

[FoulMouth 26]

PKing is a way of life, I've been doing it since 1997 with UO and I'll continue to do it until the day I die.

[Eldo (DayZ) 7]

Re-adding the bandit skins and humanity counter back will reduce the number of player kills significantly. It still will be PvP but with less killing becaise people will want to stay as survivors. People already noted the number of murders went up when bandit skins where taken off. Find a way to reimplement them, they don't have to be the same, but I think having bandits and survivors will significantly reduce the number of kills and perhaps improve the overall experience.

I liked the humanity and bandit skins, even though I was a bandit. I felt like an outcast for my actions and lost some privileges for what I've done. I think the best thing to do is to take a community vote and see what we all say about the matter. All though it lost an element of realism it made punishment for murdering.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Eldo

[*Regulator* Oldtribe 68]

I think PvP is the whole point of the game - it's a rare game where I feel so paranoid and actually fear dying. The players who want to have more coop elements need to band together and take back ground from bandits, who have just chosen to get to the top of the food chain. When the game has no laws, the players need to get together and enforce their own laws through trial and error. I hunt bandits, I don't kill random people but I LOVE THE FACT that there are these organized, kitted-out bad motherfuckers on every server just waiting for me to make a mistake.

That being said, it wouldn't seem too bad to bring back bandit skins or other ways to identify mass murderers in the game - I think that'd help survivors band together easier and make my job in picking targets much cleaner. The best way to counter bandits is lawmen/vigilantes and the game could support that without the game feeling suffering too much (now I just kill you if you're carrying a sniper or I see you grief somebody else).

What I'd love to see in the game (this being survival horror and all), is psychological effects on committing murders - maybe the ghosts of the people you've killed could sometimes come back to haunt you or something creepy like that :D

-O

PS: and please implement a 30 second delay for aborting the game to curtail the DCing - that's just stupid and ruins the fun from firefights :D

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

Re-adding the bandit skins and humanity counter back will reduce the number of player kills significantly.

Life expectancy was almost 20 minutes lower and banditry and murder rates were higher when the skin and humanity counter were in the game. So, sorry. Not quite that simple.

And if we enjoy the danger and difficulty (and frankly think the world could stand to be more difficult to survive in) but just find the mindless shoot-on-sight PvP deathmatching to be a let down, which game, pray tell, is there out there for us? I'd like to know who exactly is catering to that market?

So you just absolutely adore danger and difficulty just as long as there's not too much of it and you know it's coming and can avoid it easily and don't really have to worry about it...

This argument is so stale. You have no idea what the intentions are of someone who shoots you. You can't tell the difference between mindful and mindless PvP in the game. You see a guy, you're dead. Maybe he had a good reason? Maybe not. How can you tell? And if you can't tell, how can that make one type exciting and the other type a "let down?" There's no way to tell the difference.

[Katana67 2907]

I don't understand where all these doomsday scenarios about Day Z are coming from.

Rocket has invested, and is investing, a lot of resources into balance and bug fixing just to satisfy all of the people who bitch. Things that are the objective of an alpha, the introduction of content, has taken a backseat to bug fixing.

That being said, the high level of player killing -is- being addressed. Even though, statistics point to non-PvP deaths as being the majority of deaths...

Rocket has said, multiple times, that encouraging teamwork and all that fuzzy shit... is a major objective of his. I personally don't care either way, because I -know- through the introduction of content and new mechanics, this will be accomplished.

Again, the OP assumes that this is a finished product and Rocket is somehow neglecting it. We all know that this isn't true, at all.

I think the ability to comment on an alpha based on individual experience, is the true fault of the project at this point. It is truly a luxury that we are all allowed to participate, so what do we do? Bitch until we get our way. Bear in mind we should always, as a community, be able to offer suggestions and viewpoints. But the emphasis on fixing shit "here and now" and because "my loot got stolen, or the balance is off", is not the purpose of the alpha and is really a mark of selfish players who only care about their individual experiences and not the mod itself.

[jay.pis 32]

But I'd like it to be just one part of the game, not the whole thing the way it is now. The game needs to facilitate interactions between players that are not exclusively PvP.

What would you suggest be added to facilitate interaction between players in-game?

[jay.pis 32]

The problem isnt the game machenics, Its the idiots that play.

Actually the biggest problem is that this is just a VIDEO GAME.

[Mojo Jojo 6]

What would you suggest be added to facilitate interaction between players in-game?

There are a lot of things that could be done. At the very minimum re-add the bandit skins (or some other form of reputational system). Make it easier to visually distinguish one player from another as a general matter. Create a usable trade interface (though they should probably start by a making a usable inventory interface). Create a way for a group of players to control a spot of ground such that players cannot respawn there (see the Fort Friendly thread and the issues with bandits ghosting in). Make it possible for people to in some manner advertise the presence of a safe zone/trading hub/recruiting station in game. And once some features are added to facilitate cooperation, crank up the difficulty of the environment, reduce the availability of supplies and firearms, add some new types of zeds that are more dangerous, less predictable, and harder to kill, or maybe some wandering herds (ala the Walking Dead), then buff the resources at helicopter crashes and advertise them with columns of smoke visible from a long distance. There would still be lots of PKing, but hopefully more of it would be purposeful (resource wars, territorial disputes) rather than just random deathmatching. Push people to group up, then pit them against one another.

People are trying to do a lot of these things already, but the game constantly works against them in favor of the PvP deathmatch (again, see Fort Friendly). Just give folks a few tools and they'll run with it.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

There are a lot of things that could be done. At the very minimum re-add the bandit skins (or some other form of reputational system).

I love seeing people asking for bandit skins back who apparently didn't play when they were in the game.

Banditry was more common when skins were in the game. Murder rates were higher and life expectancy was 25 minutes.

Make it easier to visually distinguish one player from another as a general matter.

Go post here.

Visual identification system that doesn't rely on magical faeries that tell you who is naughty and who is nice.

Your other suggestions are interesting. Go start threads in the suggestions forum instead of complaining about PvP in General Discussion.

Edited July 25, 2012 by ZedsDeadBaby

[jay.pis 32]

At the very minimum re-add the bandit skins (or some other form of reputational system). Make it easier to visually distinguish one player from another as a general matter.

How does that help with the PvP situation? What if I've been defending myself and killing bandits, wouldn't I in turn become a bandit as well?

Something like a murder system maybe, where players start off as neutral (lets call them blue players) when they first play and as they kill a certain amount of blue players they turn into a bandit (lets call them red players). Now as a blue player, killing a bandit won't add a murder count on me since I killed a red player and not a blue player.

This doesn't really help with the PvP but it does help with knowing who does a lot more killing. Plus if they ever decide to add in NPC guards and shit like that then it'll work with that as well where players can set them to KoS red players.

Make it possible for people to in some manner advertise the presence of a safe zone/trading hub/recruiting station in game.

This is cool, maybe spray painting on walls with a location or message or notes and journals that can be dropped for others to find.

And once some features are added to facilitate cooperation, crank up the difficulty of the environment, reduce the availability of supplies and firearms, add some new types of zeds that are more dangerous, less predictable, and harder to kill, or maybe some wandering herds (ala the Walking Dead), then buff the resources at helicopter crashes and advertise them with columns of smoke visible from a long distance. There would still be lots of PKing, but hopefully more of it would be purposeful (resource wars, territorial disputes) rather than just random deathmatching. Push people to group up, then pit them against one another.

Agree 100% on this one.

Another thing that I'd like to throw in is item/weapon maintenance/degrading system. Also have it so that zeds that are in range will swarm the area of a gunshot so that players have to think twice before firing their weapon.

Edited July 25, 2012 by jay.pis

[gator (DayZ) 22]

Uh... no. It's definitely going to be a standalone game.

You apparently miss the point. Of course, after the mod became popular and everyone said "hey this game is awesome, it will kick ass when done" rocket said "holy shit, I can turn this into a game and make money." Problem is, that game in everyone's head (each different) was never the intent, so now what happens is things are being made up as they go, which will hit both mechanics, re playability, and technical limitations that will result in something far from what everyone thinks this "game" is going to be. Thus, it drifts about aimlessly for awhile until people get fed up. Of course, until then, there will be a legion of people that are die hard supporters and tell everyone to GTFO if they have any suggestions or complaints about the aimless drifting.

Again, go read the Mortal Online forums from two years ago.

[jay.pis 32]

You apparently miss the point. Of course, after the mod became popular and everyone said "hey this game is awesome, it will kick ass when done" rocket said "holy shit, I can turn this into a game and make money." Problem is, that game in everyone's head (each different) was never the intent, so now what happens is things are being made up as they go, which will hit both mechanics, re playability, and technical limitations that will result in something far from what everyone thinks this "game" is going to be. Thus, it drifts about aimlessly for awhile until people get fed up. Of course, until then, there will be a legion of people that are die hard supporters and tell everyone to GTFO if they have any suggestions or complaints about the aimless drifting.

Again, go read the Mortal Online forums from two years ago.

It's all about what they do put in their game and how well they'll be implementing the games systems/mechanics.

Mortal Online is shit because the devs sucked at implementing anything, that goes for any gameplay system/mechanics, patches, new content, etc.

[gator (DayZ) 22]

It's all about what they do put in their game and how well they'll be implementing the games systems/mechanics.

Mortal Online is shit because the devs sucked at implementing anything, that goes for any gameplay system/mechanics, patches, new content, etc.

Agreed. It can turn into a great "game" if there are good ideas and implementation.

But nothing so far suggests that it will. Arma engine is buggy, hackers are unstoppable (they would have stopped them two years ago if they knew how, this isn't a DayZ issue), there is no talk of how to implement replayability, I have heard no ideas or plan for imrpoving PVE and PVE balance except from the community which usually yells the usual refrain GTFO if you dont like it, everyone complains that end game is boring, still no fixed to the most complained issues for months (e.g., Alt-f4) so what we have now is a tweaked version of the thing we started with, a mod of arma, and a bunch of hope.

[nicraM 137]

Did I reply to this thread already? I am lost. There are so many of these douchey threads that I can't keep track.

I'm just gonna say...

You need me. I make this game exciting. I am that mofo that shoots at you when you are moving slowly and deliberately through the towns. I make your heart jump. And for the even weaker in constitution, I make you shit your pants.

=)

You need me! You love me. Accept it!

[Dronax 33]

zombies are secondary to players in this game not vice versa.

when you shoot at a player there is a risk of attracting zombies. A clear sign of someone who is new is a player who shoots at zombies and attracts players. Zombies are an easy problem on their own, its the problem they create when coupled with the danger of other players.

OP: if you played for another 30 deaths (instead of giving up) you would realize how boring and easy zombies are, and that the real rush comes from the FEAR of PK's not the fear of zombies.

[cur1er 12]

If you look at the statistics on the dayzmod.com you will notice that of the 18,096,393 survival attempts only 2,684,844 have resulted in murders. I'm not going to really calculate the exact number cause fuck you I start college again in a month but this means that around 1 in 6 deaths have resulted in a murder. That is hardly a problem. People just seem to get way too butthurt when they die to a player.

Actually most of the deaths are probably from respawns, 90% of mine are. Just respawing to get into a decent spawn, Elektro/Cherno/Balota etc, takes me up to 30 respawns to get one I actually like, just saying.

[Mojo Jojo 6]

I love seeing people asking for bandit skins back who apparently didn't play when they were in the game.

Banditry was more common when skins were in the game. Murder rates were higher and life expectancy was 25 minutes.

And what's the mechanism that you think connects the bandit skins to low life expectancy? Couldn't that statistic be linked to the fact that new spawns were armed at that time? Seems like a correlation =/= causation situation.

How does that help with the PvP situation? What if I've been defending myself and killing bandits, wouldn't I in turn become a bandit as well?

ZDB is correct that I wasn't here when bandit skins were enabled, but my assumption is that killing bandits did not count towards the murder tally. So killing bandits would never make you a bandit. And it helps by giving players at least some indication of who they might be able to trust, which would go a long way towards fostering non-violent interactions.

[Swineflew 480]

It's heartbreaking to me that this thread is still going.

[GeneralMcCain 2]

It keeps going because we love these threads if only for the comments. Most of the whining is tl;dr. I didn't read it either. And anyway, they all come back in the end.

[Karlash 3]

I think the ability to comment on an alpha based on individual experience, is the true fault of the project at this point. It is truly a luxury that we are all allowed to participate, so what do we do? Bitch until we get our way. Bear in mind we should always, as a community, be able to offer suggestions and viewpoints. But the emphasis on fixing shit "here and now" and because "my loot got stolen, or the balance is off", is not the purpose of the alpha and is really a mark of selfish players who only care about their individual experiences and not the mod itself.

I agree with you, ppl are never happy with anything or at leats there wll alwats be a group that hates some part of a game. However bugs aside I really dont see the point at BITCHING about getting content added or removed, I have played the game for a while longer than I had in my first post and to be honest I have met more player who has left me alone than I have that have killed me. The thing is though, if you have a complaint about a game or game mechanics make a solution to your complaint, but no ppl just bitch and moan and cause raging, QQ and trolling. The flip side of that is that the player then make a solution that only benifits his own play style or a small group of players.

Honestly I dont think any punishment for PK'er should be in place, but there should be some way to have an idea if a player is going to kill you or not. The other thing I dont agree that global chat should come back in, but maybe if you find a radio or walkie talkie you can communicate with other players, but that may lead to need to find batteries and all kinds of other things, could be fun though. But anyways PK'ing isnt always justified I was killed 1min after I was spawned it was another but you just move on and get over it, doesnt me I am now going to kill everyone I see, but I am more likely to kill now for items, oh and some one complained about 1 shot kills or something much earlier I love that, I hate games where you have to un load a mag or clip into a play before they die, getting shot in the head and dying is how its ment to be, or getting shot in the chest twice or what ever.

[Hoskins123 24]

If all I had to do in this game was avoid these shitty zombies I would fall asleep.

[osiriszoran 33]

call me maybe OP?