Third person vs First person view

[RooBurger 285]

And for those of you who say "It breaks the realism." It really doesn't. I can pretend I'm in FP while playing in third.

It's not because first person feels more immersive, it's because third person changes combat mechanics considerably. In reality you can't float above your head to see further, or look over walls and around corners.

For those who want to see all their gear, it would be easy enough to add a feature for this. If Minecraft can do it, so can DayZ.

Edited December 20, 2012 by RooBurger

[DemonGroover 8836]

3rd person, as its name suggests, is an exploit. No matter what you do you will always be able to view something, or view it quicker, than you would in 1st person.

As you have said, removing it isn't an option because it will alienate about 80% of the playing group.

Perhaps if you have a weapon out the camera goes into instant first person mode so you could only view in 3rd person when your weapon is holstered or shouldered?

I dunno, i'm trying to come up with a suggestion that isn't a smart ass response for you.

For me personally, i cant shoot in 3rd person. Whenever i perceive a threat i instantly jump to first - which, apart from running through a few forests and fields, is 90% of the time since i hang in Cherno-Elektro.

[Bladez 0f Fury 33]

3rd person, as its name suggests, is an exploit. No matter what you do you will always be able to view something, or view it quicker, than you would in 1st person.

As you have said, removing it isn't an option because it will alienate about 80% of the playing group.

Perhaps if you have a weapon out the camera goes into instant first person mode so you could only view in 3rd person when your weapon is holstered or shouldered?

I dunno, i'm trying to come up with a suggestion that isn't a smart ass response for you.

For me personally, i cant shoot in 3rd person. Whenever i perceive a threat i instantly jump to first - which, apart from running through a few forests and fields, is 90% of the time since i hang in Cherno-Elektro.

Thats what sucks though. I've been playing ArmA for the little over 3 years it has been out. I (and maybe others) can NOT use FP to shoot. Unless I am laying on the ground or in a fixed position (Or sniping) I can not use FP to shoot. It sucks... Its Laggy, its buggy and It just is not enjoyable. I can see how some get the "advantage" but there are some disadvantages too. Sometimes (Might just be me) I think I'm behind cover but I'm not and I get shot because It looked like I was in cover through TP. However, I think if we eliminated the "zoom out" button on TP it would be a happy medium for everyone (as I don't think I have EVER zoomed out while in TP) But getting rid of TP for shooting is ridiculous, I would never EVER buy SA unless it had TP and being able to shoot from TP.

Just my 2 pennies.

Also, on a side note, Its not that I don't take the time to learn how to use FP, its more that I've been using TP for so long (Over 3 years now) that it feels awk. and unnatural to shoot from FP or ever run around in FP.

[Jars (DayZ) 63]

Third person is a horrible mechanic in the game , that is only for pretty boys checking out their sweet threads , and Gen Y checking out their sexy buns and thighs .

Any one who wants "true grit" and the "inaccessibility" that Dean keeps talking about , would never want third person in their game .

It makes what could be a truly awesome game , into something lesser .

If that alienates 80% of the player base , then that is their loss I guess , too bad so sad .

All in all , third person eats the hard wang , and it galls me I cant play on any meaningful servers with out it .

[WiFiN 55]

As RooBurger said - it's not the question of realism, it's a question of exploits.

Having weapons holstered might work, but still it leaves the ability to UAV over walls and such as you perform it while enemy doesn't see you yet anyway.

If the question is about FOV - it can be done by changing the format of the screen - say, when you press "extended view" button, it adds cinematic black stripes on the top and the bottom of your screen and thus changes format from 3:4 to 16:9 or even more, so you could have wider view angle. It was done in Assassin's creed if I recall correct.

[enforcer1975 1111]

I find it quite funny that if you were to enable or propose 3rd person in any other shooter like CoD or BF3 or whatever game like that is out there you would earn a shitstorm. Here on the other hand....guys we have the same format like in the other shooters, too. If you would pull your heads out of your asses you would admit that 1st person is the only way to play ArmA and it's mods. I always propsed 1st person btw when players complained about enemies beeing able to see them behind walls in league games, but then nobody really wanted to give away their "advantage" either...weird...?

[RooBurger 285]

It doesn't take that long to get used to playing in first person.

I'd be happy if there were more servers out there with first only, but they're extremely rare. In fact, I can't find any FP servers with a ping less than 200 at all.

[QuantumDrop 7]

Why should there be a discussion about this?

What is the fucking problem with TP? Do you really think it gives someone that much of an edge in a firefight? Thing is, ARMA II first person view sucks a whole world's worth of dick. It's buggy, it's laggy, and it's bad to look around.

Yes, it is, needless to say, unrealistic. But we can't make the game completely realistic because too much realism makes the game unplayable or unpleasant to play. Which I think is the case. Some people like FP, but most like TP, so I don't think TP should be removed because about 4/5 of the players will be pissed just so 1/5 will be happy with the change.

There is no other solution achievable on the ARMA 2 engine (on the standalone some of these things people have suggested might happen) than making TP a server-side setting. Which I think is a great solution. To each his own. So people who like TP play with TP, people who like FP play FP.

Buuut...the FP players argue they can't get enough people on a FP server. That is simple because people have to organize. If all FP'ers were to join FP servers, there wouldn't be that problem, but all of them don't go in there because they think no one will. Someone has to fucking take the initiative. Anyways, I play in TP and it isn't a concern to me if FP players can't play the way they want, and it shouldn't be. The whole game shouldn't change because 1/5 or so of the community wants the change.

TL;DR

TP isn't cheating for most people, and these people also hate ARMA II FP and like TP. I don't thing the whole game should be changed, because 4/5 of the players will be pissed just so 1/5 will be happy with the change.

[QuantumDrop 7]

I'd be happy if there were more servers out there with first only, but they're extremely rare. In fact, I can't find any FP servers with a ping less than 200 at all.

Well, 200 ping is perfectly playable lol. Most of you Americans, Australians, Europeans, etc. are spoiled used to always playing on 80-120 ping but it doesn't really affect gameplay that much until it hits 350 ping.

Edited December 21, 2012 by QuantumDrop

[Very Ape 748]

Honestly, first person wouldn't be so bad! Just give us the option to look at ourselves and we'll be fine. ;)

But please, for the love of God, fix the tunnel vision. I know it can be adjusted, but it shouldn't be that way by default. :P

[Bladez 0f Fury 33]

I find it quite funny that if you were to enable or propose 3rd person in any other shooter like CoD or BF3 or whatever game like that is out there you would earn a shitstorm. Here on the other hand....guys we have the same format like in the other shooters, too. If you would pull your heads out of your asses you would admit that 1st person is the only way to play ArmA and it's mods. I always propsed 1st person btw when players complained about enemies beeing able to see them behind walls in league games, but then nobody really wanted to give away their "advantage" either...weird...?

If BF3 had a TP I would shit myself. That would become the greatest shooter in a long while. CoD Actually DOES have a TP option and I personally like playing CoD in tp better aswell.

[WiFiN 55]

Guys, guys, GUYS!

It's not about removing TP or not - it's about fixing the exploit with it.

The rant about removing or keeping it can go forever! But making it fair (as staying hidden is one of the main warrants of your survival, which is not the case in CoD) is the question. Any more ideas about the mechanics?

[brzator47@gmail.com 524]

Fixing the 3rd person exploits will always be very hard, if not impossible. I know it's not a "plz remove TP" thread but really, I would be all for that. I was just watching a few pretty interesting and well made squad vs squad videos but couldn't help but notice how 3rd person view is abused to hell by everyone. I don't think people realize how much effect it has on firefights. Put a slider to control the FOV instead of having to mess with config files, cut the grass shorter so it doesn't obscure your view that much, there's even an ARMA mod for that - problem solved.

[St. Jimmy 1631]

Thing is, ARMA II first person view sucks a whole world's worth of dick. It's buggy, it's laggy, and it's bad to look around.

Either your computer isn't enough good for this game or you haven't adjusted well FoV and GPU_MaxFramesAhead and GPU_DetectedFramesAhead in .cfg and head bob.

[big_t 66]

Take out 3rd person all together, or if you must have it in for mechanics and navigating around tricky areas keep the field of view the same but more importantly the elevation.

I exploit the laying in the grass 3rd person exploit all the time. My head buried in a shrub, but I can see everything? Totally unrealistic. Also the looking around corners Exploit.

IT's not fair, and not realistic at all.

Help to make a more engrossing experience,

please remove

Edited December 21, 2012 by Big_T

[Jars (DayZ) 63]

Guys, guys, GUYS!

It's not about removing TP or not - it's about fixing the exploit with it.

The rant about removing or keeping it can go forever! But making it fair (as staying hidden is one of the main warrants of your survival, which is not the case in CoD) is the question. Any more ideas about the mechanics?

It just needs to go , plain and simple .

The only use it has , is to give you a field of view which is completely unachievable in reality .

There is no mechanic which can "fix" it to a point where it is completely irrelevant any way .

[Bribase 251]

I've played games when your player is close to a wall or is against it the third person would zoom closer in on your player so you could see less.

This is the key IMO. It's already implemented for vehicles to zoom in at slow speeds and out when traveling quickly so doing this on foot should be easy. This can be appled when prone as well.

The point is that the ARMA simulations have to strike a balance between realism and playablilty. There is nothing at the moment that simulates what your vision does IRL because it can't recreate the kind of proprioception our bodies have and link it with our vision. 1st person feels odd because it isn't really like our own vision and FOV and we switch to the greater FOV in third but it's exploitable. It's really going to have to be about implementing a compromise.

That or everyone invests in an oculus rift.

[MarcDaKind 37]

There is nothing in DayZ that makes you need 3rd person, it only takes away for the experience. Remove third person and the game will be more balanced, immersible and fun for everyone when we have gotten used to it.

[Bribase 251]

It just needs to go , plain and simple .

The only use it has , is to give you a field of view which is completely unachievable in reality.

There is no mechanic which can "fix" it to a point where it is completely irrelevant any way .

Not true I'm afraid. Human field of vision is almost 180 degrees. Our ability to recognise colours, movements and shapes drops off considerably around the edges though. Making a game that mimics human eyesight would be very difficult indeed. Hence the addition of the zoom function with the RMB, peripheral dots and 3rd person.

Edited December 22, 2012 by Bribase

[RooBurger 285]

I use third person all the time because I'm only putting myself at a massive disadvantage if I don't. Even though I don't like the feature, I'm forced to use it.

Because of that, even though I'd like to see it removed, it would take a little while for me to adjust also.

[lgeorg 3]

Why should there be a discussion about this?

Because it's a forum for suggestions, and clearly a significant enough portion of the community wants to discuss the removal of third person view.

What is the fucking problem with TP? Do you really think it gives someone that much of an edge in a firefight? Thing is, ARMA II first person view sucks a whole world's worth of dick. It's buggy, it's laggy, and it's bad to look around.

As someone mentioned, you can change your options to improve performance in first person. Quite simple and effective. And yes, third person does give an advantage in a firefight. You can see over obstacles and have ridiculously unrealistic visual awareness of your surroundings. Many people play in third person only because they have this advantage and it makes them more difficult to sneak up on, while giving them an advantageous means to locate potential targets.

Anyways, I play in TP and it isn't a concern to me if FP players can't play the way they want, and it shouldn't be. The whole game shouldn't change because 1/5 or so of the community wants the change.

This whole notion of "the game is perfect" and "shouldn't change" just reeks of childish sentiment from people who've adapted to the game as it is, and can't bear to have to adapt to anything different, no matter how detrimental to gameplay it is to leave it unchanged. This attitude leads to stagnation; when a vocal portion of people spend time burying helpful or otherwise criticism and insisting upon the status quo, the game goes nowhere but downhill. Heaven forbid any sort of changes be made to a game that is ridden with bugs and glitches, but has all the potential in the world.

Also, why should people who play in the first person have any concern if removal of the third person mode prevents you from playing the game as you want? Especially if the issues you have in the first person are easily remedied by tweaking your options?

Edited December 22, 2012 by Stahlgeist

[St. Jimmy 1631]

I'll post my suggestion from Bohemia forum in here also. I think this would bring more people to play in 1st person.

Key or control to peek up bit when in prone to be able to see over grass or low obstacles.

- Binary type: press or hold one key character will raise his body bit with his arms and with Q and E you can peek also bit left and right.

- "Analog type": press or hold one key and adjust the amount of peeking with your mouse.

I think this would be very useful because now we either have to use 3rd person to achieve this or we have to stand crouch which is slow, clunky and gets you killed.

[enforcer1975 1111]

When they finally get TrackIR working i hope they have 6dof where you can also move up and down in your seat, instead of only sideways, lean, forward/backward. The SMK animations already give you the ability to "prone higher". But if they ever get that to work is another story...

[WiFiN 55]

Added some of the ideas into the OP. Hope we'll have some Dev team attention.

[Michaelvoodoo25 3120]

If you don't like it, don't use it. How hard is it, Just because it is used to benefit some people does not mean it's a problem.

people are gonna moan no matter what.

I do agree the FOV needs addressing though.

Edited December 23, 2012 by Michaelvoodoo25