Post apacolyptic greifing simulator for D-bags

[xX_fr0st-w0lf_Xx (DayZ) 343]

The op is right in way, I'm taking a small break while a watch closely to see how dayz is forming. If I play i'm just going to end up raging at some stupid thing, which would be fine if you didnt waist so many hours of work. Don't get me wrong I love dayz and the pvp but at the moment there is way to much of it.

Also to everyone saying that this is what would happened in the real world:

If you have been scavenging alone for so long in whats left of world, you have not socialized or spoken to anyone in months and you come across an unarmed man who seems friendly. will you waist your precious ammo and alert all the zeds to kill him?

No you won't and anyone stating otherwise just makes me laugh.

"Ye but i snip at elektro cUz im L33t nd dats wut hapends in rel lif bro" that's like 76% of the player base right there

[fish911503 136]

nope i responded to what you said

follow them see if they are bad then shoot them if they are, its already ingame ... you follow them see if they are bad guys then shoot them

beat torture and slice and dice some guy (bearing in mind bandits will have the same ability so it will get done to you as well more then likley) but its not going to be effective at distinguishing bandits from none bandits at ranges where your less likley to be shot so pointless,

originally you were asking specifically for a way to recognise a bandit at distance, you see the differance here. weve moved from ability to tell at range to ability to tell when your close enough to be dead 108908x over

not really but thats what your suggestions appear to be, you orignially ask for one thing then when questioned about how it should operate in game you suggest somthing that wont work for the original request and seems to be little more then an inbuilt T-bagging ability

well thats what im trying to do, but you ask for one thing when questioned how you suggest somthing that wont give what you asked for originally, thats incongruent so theres somthing else there thats not bieng said, im just trying to work out what

No I never asked for ability from a distance...thats just your malfunctioning brain again deary. So over and over you refered to my original request which you don't even comprehend correctly. All i ask for is intelligent discussion on how to address the banditry issue. If you dont beleive there is one then why are you in this thread? If you ask me for a suggestion on how to fix it, you just point out why it wont work and therefor conclude theres no point in having the discussion. Again this is your malfunctioning brain. So maybe im too dumb to come up with a good answer but all im asking for is a discussion. If your not keen on discussing it then fuck off and leave me alone :)

[DeltaElite121 16]

The community makes the game. There is nothing stopping you from rounding up a posse and hunting down the bandits.

You're right. There isn't.. but we still run into the aspect of identifying said bandits. I killed one earlier today, and didn't even know it until he was dead.. shooting completely in self defense (I had a clean shot at him for over 40 seconds and he shot at my friend, then me after staring at me for 10 seconds). In "real life" people pick up on body language, tone, eye movement, stances, etc.. things you cannot see in this game. Balance needs to be made in order to distinguish such things (like if I get within _____ range of them their name turns red). Not realistic? It's a game; and killing people over a can of sardines isn't realistic either. By nature - humans are genetically pre-dispositioned to bond together. It's that rare few that choose to do otherwise (which would also fall into the murderers, rapists, serial killers, etc.. most likely 5% of the population with another 5% being potential advocates of such deviance given the right conditions). Look at the worst of the worst in prisons, even.. people STILL bond together, just racially instead.. and we're talking about that hypothetical 10% in it's entirety.

See where that brings us? We can't really compare the real world to a game. It's too cumbersome and difficult. That's why balance comes into effect... because it's there to SIMULATE different conditions. This game currently lacks balance. I don't want it to lose it's edge.. I WANT players to feel the rush of being a bandit. I also want to "good players" to be rewarded for doing so.. aka: other neutral players won't come after you and kill you because God forbid you have a spoon as a weapon and they blow you away from trigger-happiness.

[noobfun 87]

This is authentic to the real world, and arguing that everyone should always look the same wouldn’t even be practical in a zombie apocalypse. If you’re with a small or large band, clan, gang, etcetera, you want to be able to distinguish each other from other people for the two reasons listed above. And considering this is a game where facial recognition isn’t possible, I believe that some other form of distinction is not only authentic, but a requirement.

so you and you guys are running around in pink sparkly cowboy hats so you can tell who is with your little gang, hows that help distinguish bandits from none bandits(which is the topic at hand)? whats to stop someone stealing one of those fine and sparkly cowboy hats wondering into the middle of your group then shooting you all in the back? how will this stop shoot on site mentality? all this basically does is stops the sparkly hat brigade from accidentally shooting other members of the sparkly hat brigade

[fish911503 136]

Finally some intelligent posts showing up....cheers

[fish911503 136]

so you and you guys are running around in pink sparkly cowboy hats so you can tell who is with your little gang, hows that help distinguish bandits from none bandits(which is the topic at hand)? whats to stop someone stealing one of those fine and sparkly cowboy hats wondering into the middle of your group then shooting you all in the back? how will this stop shoot on site mentality? all this basically does is stops the sparkly hat brigade from accidentally shooting other members of the sparkly hat brigade

Any asshole can tear shit down.....its a lot harder to build something Edited July 17, 2012 by playZ

[CraftZ49 18]

Adapt and defend yourself better.

Putting valuables in tents is a stupid idea.

[RoRogely 5]

You're right. There isn't.. but we still run into the aspect of identifying said bandits. I killed one earlier today, and didn't even know it until he was dead.. shooting completely in self defense (I had a clean shot at him for over 40 seconds and he shot at my friend, then me after staring at me for 10 seconds). In "real life" people pick up on body language, tone, eye movement, stances, etc.. things you cannot see in this game. Balance needs to be made in order to distinguish such things (like if I get within _____ range of them their name turns red).

Stopped reading there. You play on a server with nametags so you obviously don't care about realism or keeping this simulator as real as possible.

Edited July 17, 2012 by RoRogely

[ltdan 14]

It's not "griefing" if it's an intented method of play. Griefing is usually "spoiling" the game by doing things that you should not be, grey area sure. But saying that killing people is griefing is a long stretch that's like saying killing people in an FPS deathmatch is griefing.

DayZ is deathmatch, it's PVP, with a PvE element. And on top of all that it's not yet a "game", it's an alpha, a sufacing idea, nothing more at this stage.

+1

[skyter 299]

LoL

The player killing is fine, the goal is to survive, for me, its easier to kill you and take your gear than find my own, that is realistic.

If you don't happen to have any gear I need, then oh well, still get another notch on my .50

Quit your bitching, or leave, it doesn't sound like you belong in ArmA anyway...

Also, the skins were already addressed by rocket

It is not realistic that a bandit would single themselves out by wearing special gear.

You wouldn't wear a Nazi uniform in Israel would you?

you probably would...

Edit: Way to give yourself beans

Edited July 17, 2012 by skyter

[fish911503 136]

BTW skyter your thread title is the best ever :) cheers

[skyter 299]

Stopped reading there. You play on a server with nametags so you obviously don't care about realism or keeping this simulator as real as possible.

Dear condescending douche bag please leave this thread. If you want to go play arma, go play arma.

[noobfun 87]

No I never asked for ability from a distance...thats just your malfunctioning brain again deary

ummm .........

. Instead we got a bunch of late to the game deathmatch faggots who DO dictate how everyone else plays the game. Rocket is fucking himself in the ass by not doing something about this. All this would do would be to form two major factions in the game.

People who want to try and rebuild society and selfish sneaks who are only out for themselves. I for one am not telling anyone how to play the game. Im saying give me a way to identify bandits/murdurer.

so you didnt say this on page 3 then?

So over and over you refered to my original request which you don't even comprehend correctly. All i ask for is intelligent discussion on how to address the banditry issue.

see above thats not what you were asking for, we call this moving the goal posts

If you dont beleive there is one then why are you in this thread?

human nature is human nature, human nature is what you see bieng displayed, annonymaty coupled with scarecty in an enviroment that breeds them V's us mentality

i can think of several ways to do it, but they will all break the game mechanics by dictating how a player plays, which is the inverse of the games ideals. as you believe there is a way that wont hinder anyone side excessivley and force people to play a certain way then lets see what ideas there are, lets evaluate them and see how the cookie crumbles

If you ask me for a suggestion on how to fix it, you just point out why it wont work and therefor conclude theres no point in having the discussion.

im happy to have the discussion which is why im here and replying, im not saying ive had enough im taking my ball and going home, im here asking questions, pointing things out and being involved how is this concluding theres no point having the discussion?

Again this is your malfunctioning brain. So maybe im too dumb to come up with a good answer but all im asking for is a discussion. If your not keen on discussing it then fuck off and leave me alone :)

so you want a discussion but if people are going to disagree with you during this discussion they should leave?

[aversionfx 63]

Sounds like butt hurt in this thread.

At least I got a new sig out of it.

[deathrowxi15 0]

The community makes the game. There is nothing stopping you from rounding up a posse and hunting down the bandits.

The shoot on sight bullshit does.

[Psyl3nt 125]

One thing I don't understand, these people who obviously do not like the game, do not like the playerbase, but insist on playing it anyway and then raging about all the things they don't like.

As for realism (which is a weak argument) but anyway, lets run with it for a sec, you have a limited supply of food, you have a limited supply of water, you are living in a post-apocalyptic time where "infected" are all over the place.

You see a lone person making their way towards your "area", the things you may have going through your mind, what if they are infected and haven't fully "zombied" out yet ? , what if they are bait from a bandit group ? what if they are insane and will stab you in your sleep.

Do you take the risk, expose your position, and make yourself vulnerable ? - or do you just try to avoid them / kill on sight to save worries.

IF this situation ever arose, then yes, kill on sight would be the only people who survive.

But that's really neither here nor there, as it's not really possible to say %100 what would happen, but those are my thoughts on it.

Again if you don't like participating in the alpha then ...well....don't.

Don't come on and just flat out abuse others because your upset.

[fish911503 136]

ummm .........

so you didnt say this on page 3 then?

see above thats not what you were asking for, we call this moving the goal posts

human nature is human nature, human nature is what you see bieng displayed, annonymaty coupled with scarecty in an enviroment that breeds them V's us mentality

i can think of several ways to do it, but they will all break the game mechanics by dictating how a player plays, which is the inverse of the games ideals. as you believe there is a way that wont hinder anyone side excessivley and force people to play a certain way then lets see what ideas there are, lets evaluate them and see how the cookie crumbles

im happy to have the discussion which is why im here and replying, im not saying ive had enough im taking my ball and going home, im here asking questions, pointing things out and being involved how is this concluding theres no point having the discussion?

so you want a discussion but if people are going to disagree with you during this discussion they should leave?

Its not that you disagree.....its that you base your arguments on fantasy and that you offer nothing constructive. If you think no solution is needed why are you here? Im not asking whether or not theres a imbalance in the game. Im stating there is...your stating there isn't. End of argument. If you want to offer suggestions as to a solution then there's reason to talk. Do you understand this. If your position is there is no problem as it stands then.....I get it, point taken, Have a nice day :)

[DeltaElite121 16]

Stopped reading there. You play on a server with nametags so you obviously don't care about realism or keeping this simulator as real as possible.

I couldn't even see who I killed until he was dead.. it listed his name in the deathlog. That's the only reason I knew who I killed.. so not sure where you derived that from. This game is not very realistic, so I really don't see where you're going with that argument. This game has realistic elements into it, but it's by no means anything close to real. If you're going to bother "stopped reading" then you should probably stop posting since your ears have apparently been sealed shut this entire time.

[RoRogely 5]

I couldn't even see who I killed until he was dead.. it listed his name in the deathlog. That's the only reason I knew who I killed.. so not sure where you derived that from. This game is not very realistic, so I really don't see where you're going with that argument. This game has realistic elements into it, but it's by no means anything close to real. If you're going to bother "stopped reading" then you should probably stop posting since your ears have apparently been sealed shut this entire time.

Why would you need their name to turn red? If they're a bandit you get a bandit kill. Before i go to sleep let me link again where rocket says THIS IS NOT A GAME. YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO GET PISSED OFF. YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO GET KILLED. Get over it already. Either get a clan together and hunt them down or do your best to avoid them all together.

http://dayzmod.com/f..._200#entry67815

and

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/3141-banditsurvivor-morphing-to-be-removed/page__st__160#entry32219

Edited July 17, 2012 by RoRogely

[noobfun 87]

Any asshole can tear shit down.....its a lot harder to build something

increasing the them V's us mentality (i have a sparkly hat you dont) wont do anything to decrease banditry, infact it would increase the levels if it wasnt already at KOS for most players

becasue now its just my buddies V's everything that moves, now its my buddies who i can easily tell apart from everyone else so i dont even have to stop to think before i open fire

its an inverse bandit skin, rather then see them dressed a certain way mean they are a bad guy (even though you could get it acting in self defense) now its see them not dressed like me so i know i can blaze away happily

this is a discussion about banditry right? so how is a suggestion that has nothing directly to do with banditry helpful? how is it helpful in that it would actually increase banditry inderectly?

your right any asshole can tear things down, any asshole can make random suggestions, but it takes an asshole with brains to see the none intenional side effects of the suggestions

[moisan4 26]

I agree. The beauty of sandbox games it to play them the way you want. Unfortunately at the moment I’m forced to KoS because of the limitations of the game. Don’t get me wrong, I love PvP, but I was hoping I could play this as a survivor, and hopefully with other people too. It’s extremely difficult to make friends in this game, and I only group with people I know in real life.

I played Ultima Online all the way back in Beta; it was an MMO PvP game where death insured your body was looted clean on every death. But even in Beta you could go to towns where PvP wasn’t allowed so you could form alliances with like minded individuals. Also bandits were given red names not black names so you could differentiate between them.

The reason bandits love KoS is because it gives them a huge advantage over the survivor population. Especially in a game where there is no visual way to distinguish friend, foe, or even neutral players. Bandits KoS, survivors give the benefit of the doubt, which works in the bandits favor. Hesitation equals death. Bandits don’t want to be flagged because it would create an equal playing field.

Trust me, if bandits were flagged as such they would experience far more deaths by PvP. Survivors would now have the benefit of enjoying KoS as well. This is obviously not what the bandits want. The fact that there are still players out there that attempt to even play as survivors speaks volumes about the nature of man, and I commend you. This game does everything it can to punish such behaviour and game play, yet you persist. So I guess if Z Day ever happened, humanity might have a chance.

;)

Edited July 17, 2012 by moisan4

[noobfun 87]

Its not that you disagree.....its that you base your arguments on fantasy and that you offer nothing constructive.

objections are also constructive, becasue they force you to think about the suggestions modify them re-test them, abandone them if neccessary etc etc

this is what discussion is, now do you want discussion or a circle jerk where you all agree and all pat eachother on the back for agreeing with each other?

and wheres the fantasy involved? what your seeing in game is game thoery and human behaviour/psychology playing out. its no different to two tribes raiding each others villages becasue if we dont raid them first and weaken them they will come raid us, the only differance is you have a 50 man server 35 of the players are 1 man tribes and the other 15 are small group tribes

If you think no solution is needed why are you here?

becasue you think there is, and so do other people, so im here to hear what they have to suggest, im here to provide feed back on those ideas, im here to temper those ideas so they actually become somthing well thought out and workable or crash and burn, without tempering your ideas against a devils advocate they stop becomming a reasoned suggest and become a sounding board of ill thought desires

Im not asking whether or not theres a imbalance in the game. Im stating there is...your stating there isn't. End of argument.

were having an argument now? i thiiought this was still a discussion

If you want to offer suggestions as to a solution then there's reason to talk. Do you understand this. If your position is there is no problem as it stands then.....I get it, point taken, Have a nice day :)

again you ask for discussion but when you get discussion not agreement you attempt to close it down and walk away, which is it your after discussion or unthought out agreement?

[djkling 5]

I'm inclined to say that banditry is rampant because people are playing this as a game and not a simulator. If this is rocket's intent... to not have any real social (in-game social i mean, not mumble chats etc) interaction then he has created a phenomenal lone-wolf survival game. Its still fun, and there is a lot of cool PvP. However, if Rocket wants (or has any desire) to have people group up he will need to make an incentive to group or disincentive to being a sociopathic killer. I do agree there should be SOME disadvantage to killing a human. This is the apocalypse... there may only be 10 or 20 humans left alive and people in a real situation would band together for safety with RARE sociopaths killing eachother. I feel like these natural human instincts go backward when there is no consequence other than respawn.

So, like i said... I have my opinion but the eventual outcome will come from 2 places:

1) Game or Simulation

2) Rocket's desire on social or anti-social gaming

Neither is truly right or wrong, but rocket (and BI) want to make a lasting game. Pure PvP works, but only in the context of still being able to enjoy a game as well. PvE works, but the challenge is lost once you figure out the AI.

I think the game needs a balance of both. Maybe punitive for killing a LOT of people, maybe make incentives to grouping. Maybe both. Maybe make a disincentive to being alone (like a hunger meter) and force people to make at least one friend.

I don't know what the answer is, but like i said... much depends on HOW you play it. To me its an RPG-Simulation, so I play it like my life depends on it. If someone wants to group and help me haul beans... awesome. If you want to shoot at me... be prepared to be hit with a Lee-Enfield round in the face. I don't care... but I love the idea of a hardcore sim. Bring on the complexity. Bring on the bandits. Bring on the zeds :)

[DeltaElite121 16]

Why would you need their name to turn red? If they're a bandit you get a bandit kill. Before i go to sleep let me link again where rocket says THIS IS NOT A GAME. YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO GET PISSED OFF. YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO GET KILLED. Get over it already. Either get a clan together and hunt them down or do your best to avoid them all together.

http://dayzmod.com/f..._200#entry67815

and

http://dayzmod.com/f..._160#entry32219

I honestly don't care what he says. But just for the sake of using your material, I'll go with it.. and I quote:

"This is a project for people who want to try something different, have some different experiences, feel some real emotions in a game."

Where's the emotion in dying rinse/repeat? That, and randomly shooting players? There's no emotion to that. It's the absence of that. The most common saying in the forum is "don't get attached to anything you find" so WHY would I "feel some real emotions" when I am told to not give a shit and just shoot anything that moves? That's a dumb argument.

Oh, and his second post... I seriously laugh at that. If he actually paid attention, he'd realize that ANY games that haven't offered any kind of balance mechanisms are often watered down and turn into a hashfest and it ultimately deters a community from forming. It's a MULTIPLAYER game (call it whatever you want, at the end of the day.. you guessed it! IT'S A GAME). Since when did you need to experiment with that? I could've told you that.

Nobody here said that we want to have the Unicorn Happy Flower team vs the Evil Korean PKPK'ers in an epic zombie showdown.. but his experiment certainly doesn't offer much depth if that's ultimately how far he's decided where he wants things.

He thinks he's going to be able to create some form of intensity when everything he allows just pushes towards the opposite of that. Balance is the only way to achieve that "feeling" even if the balancing is VERY minimal to allow freedom of choice as much as possible.

[underscore 12]

I agree. The beauty of sandbox games it to play them the way you want. Unfortunately at the moment I’m forced to KoS because of the limitations of the game. Don’t get me wrong, I love PvP, but I was hoping I could play this as a survivor, and hopefully with other people too.

From what I've seen over the last couple of months, I'd say that there's a large, silent majority of dayz players (and former dayz players) that share this sentiment. The problem is that almost everyone who has tried to plead this case on the forums has been effectively run out of town. Actually, it's not even so much a problem of being shouted down on the forums, but rather the simple fact that rocket has repeatedly stated that his laissez-faire approach to the bandit-survivor dynamic is functioning as intended and he's been adamant in his refusals to address the issue. So, the net effect has been that most of the reasonable, sane people have effectively given up pleading for meaningful change and pretty much abandoned the game and the forums to the lowlifes. It's the societal leftovers - the griefers and trolls - who are running the asylum now. I guess that's the way rocket wants it. Welcome to dayz, motherfuckers.

Edited July 17, 2012 by underscore