Bandit/Survivor Morphing to be removed

[rocket 16567]

Let me reiterate a very key point I keep trying to make:

You are the inhabitants of the world. I am the architect. You guys are going to decide how this world plays out. Don't compare this to other games and look for different balancing mechanics. This is an attempt at something different, it is an experiment. There is no balance, other than the balance you will put in. I will put in the features required for you to either destroy this world into mindless PVP, or create something else. Don't look to me for that balance, because I will not give you it. We started this in a particular way, we're going to finish in that way.

Some of keep looking to me to provide you a structured experience, balanced. That's not what is happening here. I'm not looking at something realistic, that isn't possible. I'm aiming for authenticity to the extent possible, but I'm realistic about what can be achieved there.

You guys keep saying I'm trying to encourage this or that with that mechanic, I'm not. I'm trying to model thought processes. The interactions are too complex to breakdown into simple mechanics so I have to focus on situations and thought processes I am trying to put into your head as you play. So I'm not doing this to support/remove PVP.

[homeslice1986 9]

Eve Online gets around this by allowing players to place bounties on the heads of criminals and to check the profiles of every player in the solar system - could a similar feature be included in Day Z? Could we have profiles of the players on the server which we could browse for an indication of their intentions?

I demand Player X dead, and am willing to pay 10 cans of beans for his head!

I dont think that would work; as it is you cant really know who is who in this game, and forcing player ids to appear in game would detract from the tension of encountering others.

[drakenof 9]

Talking about balance : the main server seem to balance the wrong way.

[pvtpile1981 1]

Let me reiterate a very key point I keep trying to make:

You are the inhabitants of the world. I am the architect. You guys are going to decide how this world plays out. Don't compare this to other games and look for different balancing mechanics. This is an attempt at something different' date=' it is an experiment. There is no balance, other than the balance you will put in. I will put in the features required for you to either destroy this world into mindless PVP, or create something else. Don't look to me for that balance, because I will not give you it. We started this in a particular way, we're going to finish in that way.

Some of keep looking to me to provide you a structured experience, balanced. That's not what is happening here. I'm not looking at something realistic, that isn't possible. I'm aiming for authenticity to the extent possible, but I'm realistic.

[/quote']

Kinda reminds me of Ulitma Online :).

[Mars (DayZ) 6]

Mindless PvP it is then. \o/

[jordnz 102]

You are the inhabitants of the world. I am the architect.

I knew you were just trying to be the suave guy in a waistcoat from Inception.

[snail123 0]

So if...

Everyone surviving has within them the potential to be/retain thier humanity...or surrender thier humanity and become something...else. Like you know...a frigging zombie :P

So...as you lose humanity...there's an actual penalty for being a rat bastard. You slowly lose effectiveness as a survivor because you can't eat/drink as well...you get the shakes and your aim is harder. It becomes harder to see and hear. You progress from a functional survivor to being one of the zombies. With the abilities and limitations of same.

It takes will to be human in the zombie apocalypse. Cuz zombie is a disease, and it's catching. Do bad things and lose humanity. Do good things and regain humanity...just the way it works now.

I'm *positive* the rat bastards out there will hate this idea. But it sure seems like the natural way to make killing others have consequences. It's not a new idea. But it's new here. And it's one that fits.

[rocket 16567]

Also... ENOUGH ABOUT THE MAIN SERVER!

Waiting for host, waiting for response.... requesting character data....

The main server isn't even breaking a sweat, fuckers. It's the local servers getting fucked because you guys keep DDoS'ing them. ArmA2 wasn't designed to have thousands of people trying to connect to one server by spamming the enter key.

[daedrick 90]

I dont mind the change, what I do mind is that you do this when the COMMUNICATION IS COMPLETLY MESSED UP!

When I encounter someone Imediatly run and hide somewhere, then I open my chat box, oups wrong channel, close it, change it to a working channel, open my chat box, type in; FRIENDLY FRIENDLY, YOU IN THE BARN THAT I JUST SPOTTED ARE YOU FRIENDLY?! All that mixed with the spam from people asking questions, people dying and the worse of all, the messages from people entering/leaving the game with all the informations about their files and what not. Very not convenient. I know its an alpha, Im all for experiementation and I love this game. But the fact that communicating is very hard right now and we wont have visual clues as to if someone could be trustworthy or not wont help.

Wearing a bandit skin was a CLUE, a pretty big one mind you but still a clue. You could still trust that guy if you wanted to and some are trusthworthy but it tells you that this man commited murders.

I agree that now is the best time to test it, well, not now NOW, because of the issue stated above but the ALPHA is the right time.

Anyway, in my opinion, in real life we have visual clues as to if someone is trusthworthy or not. The way people dress themselves, the way they move, they way they act and talk. We dont have that in video games, thats why we need a visual clue. In video games they all move the same, they all look the same and they all act the same. Even if there are different skins the two guys wearing the same uniform can be totally different while looking identical.

Until I can hear other people and they can hear me, we will need these visual clues. If I yell im friendly and ask for him to lower his weapon and he dont, I will know something is off. But until then, we better keep some sort of visual clue, imo.

We shall see. Lets try it.

EDIT: Change the HUMANITY SYSTEM to a REPUTATION SYSTEM.

[Nightronin 1]

Let me reiterate a very key point I keep trying to make:

You are the inhabitants of the world. I am the architect. You guys are going to decide how this world plays out. Don't compare this to other games and look for different balancing mechanics. This is an attempt at something different' date=' it is an experiment. There is no balance, other than the balance you will put in. I will put in the features required for you to either destroy this world into mindless PVP, or create something else. Don't look to me for that balance, because I will not give you it. We started this in a particular way, we're going to finish in that way.

Some of keep looking to me to provide you a structured experience, balanced. That's not what is happening here. I'm not looking at something realistic, that isn't possible. I'm aiming for authenticity to the extent possible, but I'm realistic about what can be achieved there.

You guys keep saying I'm trying to encourage this or that with that mechanic, I'm not. I'm trying to model thought processes. The interactions are too complex to breakdown into simple mechanics so I have to focus on situations and thought processes I am trying to put into your head as you play. So I'm not doing this to support/remove PVP.

[/quote']

Modern Day Genius.

In this kind of game, as an experiment, you will keep making radical changes and additions with every new patch.

I'm all yours!

[generalginger 0]

I am very nervous about this change. But the bandit system is NOT working. And fuck it' date=' let's change it and see what happens? If it is more stupid, then I will roll it back. No harm, no foul. Lets do all the stupid shit now, before this gets too serious.

What do you guys say? With me on this? I mean honestly I don't know how this is going to go but the existing system is pretty shit.

[/quote']

Will there be a wide variety of skins? From ghillies to bandit skin like things? :huh:

Polls do not allow me to troll for the delicious tears needed to continue development.

But when the polls dont go the way people want to, the tears will be shed.

Forward from alpha!

[karlito 3]

nooooooooooooooooooo

are the outfits permanent?

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

I liked bandit outfit :'(

[dienstfu@gmail.com 3]

Weather comms are down or not this makes communicating that much more important in the game and makes everyone learn to interact with each other or die its that simple I love this idea of not knowing off the get who is good and who is bad. Plus this allows for someone to be like a serial killer and live under the minds and eyes of the others which allows for not only a physical game as much but now the mental side of the game is really going to take a toll on people with just the thought of "CAN I TRUST HIM OR JUST SHOOT AND ASK LATER" rather than just o he has the bandit skin lets shoot him now its not so cut and dry now you have to suspect everyone and decisions now for this game seem to be put even further into the players hands now rather than chosen for them by an outfit. I LOVE THIS

[i wub pugs 16]

I've been shot by like 10 survivors just because. One bandit has managed to kill me and yes it was purely for sport and I give him props.

The system is broken, that much is clear.

I say kudos to Rocket.

As for comms............... you could get a fucking mic......................

[Reav 0]

The main server isn't even breaking a sweat' date=' fuckers. It's the local servers getting fucked because you guys keep DDoS'ing them. ArmA2 wasn't designed to have thousands of people trying to connect to one server by spamming the enter key.

[/quote']

These words should be on the main page in capital letters forever. Thank you.

[ravilakhani.e@gmail.com 20]

I suggest that as you lose humanity, you grow a goatee. That is all.

[partybooper 2]

If the bandit thing is taken out, then the humanity score should be taken out as well. If humanity will still rise and drop depending on the player I'll shoot (one who killed other players, one who didn't), then there's something wrong. ESPECIALLY if you want to bring it back one day rocket.

If there are no bandits anymore, I can't be blamed for shooting anyone I want to as well, even if he never murdered another one.

Think of it this way:

With the current system and me being a survivor with a high humanity level, I can avoid another survivor I don't think to be trustworthy. I HAVE TO avoid him because I can't kill him even if he attacks me first, if I did I'd lose a lot humanity. When I see a bandit, I can engage him, hunt him down, and kill him. I killed someone who killed another player, and I like it to be some kind of a tool for payback myself. Some kind of a freeroaming officer.

Now, let's just imagine a system where you can't tell friend from foe visually-wise. What am I supposed to do? Right, avoid ANY contact with other players altogether because every one of them could be a "shoot first, ask questions not at all" guy while at the same time it is possible I'll lose a lot humanity when shooting him because he was a "good" guy.

It doesn't work. And I really don't want to be punished for killing players when humanity will have an impact on gameplay later on when it makes its way back in a later version.

So, if you want anarchy, make it right. Remove both or none.

Just my 2 cents.

[i wub pugs 16]

Bandits are survivors too...... they just seem to be better at survival than many.

I want open world to the max, stop trying to restrict shit.

I'm digging the new skins. I'll look for a ghillie now (tell me they are available) so I can hide and hunt better.

Btw......... I'm not even a bandit, I just don't trust any of you fuckers after being gunned down time and again by "survivors".

[Slushie 0]

So, to clarify, there is now literally no downside to just murdering everyone you come across?

[Mars (DayZ) 6]

@Slushie, thats right. Lets kill anyone we meet :D SO MUCH FUN!

[rverdi12@gmail.com 5]

If the bandit thing is taken out' date=' then the humanity score should be taken out as well. If humanity will still rise and drop depending on the player I'll shoot (one who killed other players, one who didn't), then there's something wrong. ESPECIALLY if you want to bring it back one day rocket.

If there are no bandits anymore, I can't be blamed for shooting anyone I want to as well, even if he never murdered another one.

Think of it this way:

With the current system and me being a survivor with a high humanity level, I can avoid another survivor I don't think to be trustworthy. I HAVE TO avoid him because I can't kill him even if he attacks me first, if I did I'd lose a lot humanity. When I see a bandit, I can engage him, hunt him down, and kill him. I killed someone who killed another player, and I like it to be some kind of a tool for payback myself. Some kind of a freeroaming officer.

Now, let's just imagine a system where you can't tell friend from foe visually-wise. What am I supposed to do? Right, avoid ANY contact with other players altogether because every one of them could be a "shoot first, ask questions not at all" guy while at the same time it is possible I'll lose a lot humanity when shooting him because he was a "good" guy.

It doesn't work. And I really don't want to be punished for killing players when humanity will have an impact on gameplay later on when it makes its way back in a later version.

So, if you want anarchy, make it right. Remove both or none.

Just my 2 cents.

[/quote']

Murder is not a humane punishment, self appointed justicar.

[Reav 0]

I may be overthinking it at this point... Or I am a CO, whatever. But I belive rocket is trying to makes us think. Think beyond how we usually percieve videogame and free pvp. Rocket's posts are shady at times and all that "silent" humanity thing he's banging about.

Humanity should stay, as your conciousness. Think about clicking your mouse and how you ruin the fun for someone who worked to get his stuff for weeks. You may not be ok with this. You may not care as well. That tells YOU what kind of a person you are. And a game that has zombies and some awesome survival mechanics and that gives you moral choices beyoned the black and white (survivor and bandit) bulshit todays RPGs offer is double awesome to me.

Not judging here neither trying to interprit what rocket says. Just thoughts.

[bobbyweenus 17]

Bandits with ghillie suits... If we're adding ghillie suits in, could you add a button that turns my gun on myself too? Might as well cut out the middle man!

[i wub pugs 16]

The anti-bandit rule still applies.....

Go inland

Then you just have to be worried about savvy "survivors".

[friendly_noob 0]

Game: Read the posts and guess who the bandits are in this thread :D

Personally, I think DayZ could be renamed DayB as it is, it`s all about bandits now anyways. Zombies are kinda a joke you can run away they will never catch you. Bandits can instagib you from miles away camping in their familiar spot. Which one is more dangerous? The 50 zombies who you can run away from or the intelligent player sneaking up on survivors with a sniper rifle.

I just tend to sprint trough villages now, it is easy to lose zombies. The moment I`m near a town it`s sneaky mode on as even one player can be much more dangerous than a dozen zombies ever will be.

Finally, my favourite moments from the game are the ones I spent with other survivors. The only trade off of being a bandit is the skin, remove the skin and Dayz becomes Call of Duty where people don`t team up anymore and every man is for himself. This is how this `experiment` will end I`d bet money on it :P If I want heavy PvP action I`ll play Battlefield, please let Dayz be about zombies.

Edit: as this is my 1st post here just wanna thank Rocket for his mod. I din`t buy Diablo3, didn`t buy Max Payne or any of the new AAA titles. I bought Arma2 for this mod and I`m glad I did regardless what the future holds gameplay wise :)