Guns / items wear and cleaning / repair

[General Zod 1118]

Hi

I think guns and suppressors go from worn to damaged too quickly. They stay pristine for ages but once worn appears you're using a gun cleaning kit on a KA every 40 rounds.

Yes I know the wear and tear of items must be accelerated for the sake of game play just like hunger and thirst are, if I have a freshly cleaned KA to a worn status it will go to badly damaged in less than two mags and I think it's a bit excessive for military firearms. And while wear of items should accelerate with each state since using a damaged item will damage it further / faster but there is a too sharp of a drop from pristine longevity to worn longevity. 

Also how much of the kit is used up should depend on the size of what I'm cleaning. It makes no sense that cleaning a supresor uses as much of the kit as cleaning an assault rifle. Things like cleaning kits, sharpening stones or sewing kits should have a percentage that goes down accordingly. Say 10% for a supresor, 15% for a pistol, 20% for SMG and 25% for rifles. Like wise for things like gloves, shirts, jackets and backpacks, repairing gloves uses the same amount of the kit as repairing a field backpack despite that one is a small fraction of the other one in terms of size. This should be easy enough to implement. 

Edited November 18, 2021 by General Zod

[Dialectic 6]

Quote

 It makes no sense that cleaning a supresor uses as much of the kit as cleaning an assault rifle

This is the crux of the problem, gun cleaning kits at least for me very rare, same with sharpening stones meaning I replace weapons and tools more often than I repair them.

[Artyom Kalinin 15]

Agree with you. From my point of view - weapon condition status must be buffed at least 4 times from current numbers.

[DayzDayzFanboy 1280]

I think it's fine as it currently is. If everything had improved lifespan there is a lot less incentive to continue looting. Also, knowing that your weapon wears down more quickly might make people less trigger happy. Or, for those that are a bit trigger happy, they'll have to quickly adapt when their AR is ruined. 

Personally I like survival games to be hard.

Moderator edit: Removed unnecessary provocation.

[Artyom Kalinin 15]

On 11/24/2021 at 5:53 PM, DayzDayzFanboy said:

Also, knowing that your weapon wears down more quickly might make people less trigger happy. 

 I thought lack of ammo should make people less trigger happy. For now the only thing that's influence on that is the cleaning kit. This item might make people trigger happy and not trigger happy.
In attempt to make people shoot less may be implemented more types of malfunction, ammo condition status, gun cleanliness.

On 11/24/2021 at 5:53 PM, DayzDayzFanboy said:

Or, for those that are a bit trigger happy, they'll have to quickly adapt when their AR is ruined. 

Adapt to what? Am I understanding it right -  adapt for gun is no longer usable? Well, if you start playin DayZ not so long time ago (for example - since release date on consoles), I guess you really need to adapt=)

Moderator edit: Removed unnecessary provocation.

[ImpulZ 2491]

At this stage a final warning to refrain from escalating personal conflicts and picking fights on our forums. We see this, and will apply further penalization if you aren't able to keep it calm by yourselves.

[DayzDayzFanboy 1280]

16 hours ago, Artyom Kalinin said:

 I thought lack of ammo should make people less trigger happy. For now the only thing that's influence on that is the cleaning kit. This item might make people trigger happy and not trigger happy.
In attempt to make people shoot less may be implemented more types of malfunction, ammo condition status, gun cleanliness.

Adapt to what? Am I understanding it right -  adapt for gun is no longer usable? Well, if you start playin DayZ not so long time ago (for example - since release date on consoles), I guess you really need to adapt=)

Moderator edit: Removed unnecessary provocation.

Not clear where you're coming from. Personally I rarely carry military guns. I might have a silenced pistol for the  occasional awkward infected where a stealth kill isn't practical. Maybe a hunting rifle for food, though a fishing rod serves just as well. A survival game doesn't mean relying upon guns. 

I think things such as scarce ammo, guns wearing out, etc, as with any item such as sewing kits, food, whatever, make the player more cautious. Think more about what they have and how/when to use it. What's the point of having unlimited ammo, food, unbreakable guns. Once you're geared there is no longer an incentive to search the map. It is, after all, a survival game and it should be a constant challenge to survive. Everyone plays there own way of course but official should be tough. If you want easy mode there are lots of community servers that cater for this. 

[Artyom Kalinin 15]

On 11/26/2021 at 1:30 PM, DayzDayzFanboy said:

I think things such as scarce ammo, guns wearing out, etc, as with any item such as sewing kits, food, whatever, make the player more cautious. Think more about what they have and how/when to use it. What's the point of having unlimited ammo, food, unbreakable guns.

No doubt. Nobody asking for infinite ammo or weapon.
 

On 11/26/2021 at 1:30 PM, DayzDayzFanboy said:

 If you want easy mode

The game won't be easier or harder if guns condition status becomes normal - interaction with weapons will be more realistic (surprise=)) because military firearms are build to work even without maintenance in harsh conditions and still be reliable. So, guns in DayZ must be breakable, but not silly-breakable as they are now.
Everyone understand that processes in game are speed up for gameplay reasons - BUT FOR GUNS there is no need in that, it may be balanced or became even harder (but in the good way) by implementing ammo condition status and reducing their quantity across the map, by implementing new malfunctions types, by separating gun condition status for two statuses - cleanliness and technical condition, by implementing internal gun parts like trigger mechanism, bolt, bolt carrier, recoil spring, buffer, etc. (so weapon may spawn without some of them, like cars spawns without parts).

"easy mode" playin only 1pp hardcore.

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Artyom Kalinin
grammar mistake

[DayzDayzFanboy 1280]

12 hours ago, Artyom Kalinin said:

No doubt. Nobody asking for infinite ammo or weapon.
 

The game won't be easier or harder if guns condition status becomes normal - interaction with weapons will be more realistic (surprise=)) because military firearms are build to work even without maintenance in harsh conditions and still be reliable. So, guns in DayZ must be breakable, but not silly-breakable as they are now.
Everyone understand that processes in game are speed up for gameplay reasons - BUT FOR GUNS there is no need in that, it may be balanced or became even harder (but in the good way) by implementing ammo condition status and reducing their quantity across the map, by implementing new malfunctions types, by separating gun condition status for two statuses - cleanliness and technical condition, by implementing internal gun parts like trigger mechanism, bolt, bolt carrier, recoil spring, buffer, etc. (so weapon may spawn without some of them, like cars spawns without parts).

"easy mode" playin only 1pp hardcore.

 

I'd certainly like to see guns spawn with parts missing. Currently way too easy to get a gun and ammo. Like most things, once you're off the beach everything is too easy, lasts too long, etc. 

[Guest]

I'd also like to see guns with less parts, I'll find a hundred vaiga buttstocks and never need a single one. I always thought it was weird that just the stock or hand guard spawn around the map when 99% of the time the only thing the gun is missing is a clip. With how trigger happy everyone is I'm glad the guns break quickly. People should have to think twice about shooting everything that moves. Too many bullets. People cleaning loaded guns not shooting themselves in the face either. Aren't there several weapons that are notorious for jamming? I can also take the cylinder off the revolver in the game and throw it, it makes no difference for firing the gun. The survivors are supposed to be "normal people with no former training" but "the gun just went off" are famous last words, yet the only misfires in the game are jamming of damaged weapons, no dud bullets. In real life guns are a dangerous tool that needs to be respected because accidents happen, in dayz they're more common than rain and never have any problems besides people nearly melting them down playing Scarface.

[Artyom Kalinin 15]

4 hours ago, Namenick420 said:

 With how trigger happy everyone is I'm glad the guns break quickly. People should have to think twice about shooting everything that moves. Too many bullets.

Once again: devs can make guns more reliable in term of condition status (which will be totally realistic) and still keep players to think twice before using a gun. Even do things harder if they want to. Already described those ways here and in my topic.

4 hours ago, Namenick420 said:

I can also take the cylinder off the revolver in the game and throw it, it makes no difference for firing the gun.

What?

4 hours ago, Namenick420 said:

 in dayz they're more common than rain and never have any problems besides people nearly melting them down playing Scarface.

Pal, to melt them down 2 or 3 mags are needed. This is a joke.

[Guest]

What the devs can and can't do is subject to speculation... they try. I agree with most of your opinions on implementing different mechanics for the guns, those features would make it more interesting. My opinion is for how it is set now the guns breaking down quicker is somewhat of a balance for people that are trying to play survival and have tiny armies of teenie boppers armed to the teeth mag dumping everyone they see. If you load the revolver in the game, remove the cylinder throw it in the ocean, fire/reload the revolver no problem. I'm on the console though, so I just wasted your time with my opinion. I probably didn't explain what I mean clearly enough for people with English as their first language. I understand the human element, people sowing chaos, creating groups that are closed to outsiders and being a hostile entity. I like survival more than pvp though and if I'm not armed to properly take on a group of five I'm not worried about it. If I have a a double barrel and I'm attacked by a group with full military gear, I'm gonna jam an EpiPen and they can follow my piss trail over a couple mountains if they want my beans that bad. Realistically, I'm not a trained soldier or a gun expert, how hardcore do average people need to be? Some people are just farmers trying to survive the end of the world. lol

[General Zod 1118]

Trigger happiness can only be limited with reducing amount of guns and ammo on the map, which won't happen considering that every new patch brings more guns in. Cleaning kits are only really rare down south, and become more common if you head north. 

Military gun should be rare or very rare depending on which particular gun are we talking about but once we have one of those it should be able to last. Civilian hunting rifles should be more common but also have a shorter life span. This will also make people with military grade weapons bit more careful about picking their fights because losing their gear would be more of an inconvenience. 

[Corbit 14]

I think there should be a clean/dirty state on guns and the cleaning kit is for affecting that.  If you don't clean a gun regularly then it will be prone to getting damaged through normal use.  Same for the suppressors.

Even when cleaned, maybe guns could be permanently degrading a small amount with use until they get damaged.

They could then add a way to repair guns at a specific building.

Edited December 28, 2021 by Corbit

[DefectiveWater 535]

2 hours ago, Corbit said:

I think there should be a clean/dirty state on guns and the cleaning kit is for affecting that.  If you don't clean a gun regularly then it will be prone to getting damaged through normal use.  Same for the suppressors.

Even when cleaned, maybe guns could be permanently degrading a small amount with use until they get damaged.

They could then add a way to repair guns at a specific building.

Agreed, preventive maintenance should be possible, thus prolonging the time before the item gets damaged.
Also gun overheating would be a cool mechanic where higher heat = more damage to the gun.

Guns IRL don't become damaged after firing few mags, they get dirtier and dirtier the more you shoot, and that can produce unwanted wear of moving parts.
So if they are clean and lubed up they should be able to shoot as much as you want.

Edited December 28, 2021 by DefectiveWater

[General Zod 1118]

I doubt we'll get a whole new mechanics of guns getting dirty, which then with continuous use would progress into guns getting damaged. In theory the workshop in military bases could serve as a gun repair point, but that would require parts or some other consumable to make it work. And it's a big ask from devs who's solution to food being too abundant is to dial up energy consumption like you have a 10 foot tapeworm in you instead of making food more scarce and hunting more difficult. 

[DefectiveWater 535]

1 hour ago, General Zod said:

I doubt we'll get a whole new mechanics of guns getting dirty, which then with continuous use would progress into guns getting damaged.

I don't know. Gunplay and gun mechanics in DayZ seem really barebones compared to what a game like DayZ should have, but I understand your skepticism.

If they managed to make rags have "disinfected" status, they could have guns have "clean" status for X amount of shots before lowering it's condition value (worn, pristine thingy).
Don't rags loose disinfected status too after they get damaged/wet? I'm kinda sure it's something like that, but I might be wrong. 

1 hour ago, General Zod said:

In theory the workshop in military bases could serve as a gun repair point,

I heard from rumors that it was intended for that, either repairing, or crafting or whatever. Maybe that rumor isn't true, maybe they didn't have time (probably), maybe that's not their vision for the game.
Would be cool to be able to mount scopes on guns that don't have supporting rails and such.

Edited December 28, 2021 by DefectiveWater

[General Zod 1118]

27 minutes ago, DefectiveWater said:

I don't know. Gunplay and gun mechanics in DayZ seem really barebones compared to what a game like DayZ should have, but I understand your skepticism.

If they managed to make rags have "disinfected" status, they could have guns have "clean" status for X amount of shots before lowering it's condition value (worn, pristine thingy).
Don't rags loose disinfected status too after they get damaged/wet? I'm kinda sure it's something like that, but I might be wrong. 

I heard from rumors that it was intended for that, either repairing, or crafting or whatever. Maybe that rumor isn't true, maybe they didn't have time (probably), maybe that's not their vision for the game.
Would be cool to be able to mount scopes on guns that don't have supporting rails and such.

Mounting scopes on guns that don't have rail would be a tall order. You could in theory weld a rain on a gun, which in real life would require a considerable level of expertise not only not to damage the gun itself but also to put the rail level but I think we can overlook that in the game. 

But it's not a bad call, we already have power generators in game, if welders were added. Welders could also be used on base building to make more resilient structures. Quit frankly any addition to the game to give people some goal work towards other than PvP would be a welcomed one. And that's coming from a person who actually enjoys pvp.  

[Artyom Kalinin 15]

On 12/28/2021 at 4:07 PM, Corbit said:

I think there should be a clean/dirty state on guns and the cleaning kit is for affecting that.  If you don't clean a gun regularly then it will be prone to getting damaged through normal use.  Same for the suppressors.

Even when cleaned, maybe guns could be permanently degrading a small amount with use until they get damaged.

They could then add a way to repair guns at a specific building.

Finally! Someone is telling what I and many PC players speaking about)
Friend, pls check my suggestion: 

Your opinion/critique is needed.

[Artyom Kalinin 15]

On 12/28/2021 at 7:35 PM, General Zod said:

I doubt we'll get a whole new mechanics of guns getting dirty, which then with continuous use would progress into guns getting damaged. In theory the workshop in military bases could serve as a gun repair point, but that would require parts or some other consumable to make it work. And it's a big ask from devs who's solution to food being too abundant is to dial up energy consumption like you have a 10 foot tapeworm in you instead of making food more scarce and hunting more difficult. 

Agree with every word.

[DayzDayzFanboy 1280]

On 12/28/2021 at 4:35 PM, General Zod said:

I doubt we'll get a whole new mechanics of guns getting dirty, which then with continuous use would progress into guns getting damaged. In theory the workshop in military bases could serve as a gun repair point, but that would require parts or some other consumable to make it work. And it's a big ask from devs who's solution to food being too abundant is to dial up energy consumption like you have a 10 foot tapeworm in you instead of making food more scarce and hunting more difficult. 

I may have imagined this but I seem to recall when dayz first released on console there was a rumour that work benches in garages would eventually be working repair stations. Still think that this would be a good addition. The Long Dark has similar work stations for various tasks. 

[Tristan Cooper 12]

On 11/30/2021 at 9:24 AM, Guest said:

The survivors are supposed to be "normal people with no former training"

I disagree. The survivors, in my opinion, are supposed to be a sort of shell that the player can put their knowledge and experience into. I know that doesn’t count for the physical side of things, but they have to balance the game somehow. Your logic says they shouldn’t know hand to hand combat, how to use military weaponry effectively, or even fishing.

those aspects of the game aren’t meant to be controlled by the game, but by the player’s knowledge of survival. A weapons expert could go the entire time emptying their gun before cleaning it, and complain to devs about the lack of a safety. I realize this is off topic, but I hope it provides some clarity as to why guns are easy.