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Perma death?

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I always see the devs posting on Twitter about how loot despawns quickly because you shouldn’t be able to run back to yoour body to get your gear, but why be able to build bases and his tons of gear if permadeath is a thing? 

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7 hours ago, Hahahahagyvd said:

I always see the devs posting on Twitter about how loot despawns quickly because you shouldn’t be able to run back to yoour body to get your gear, but why be able to build bases and his tons of gear if permadeath is a thing? 

If another player can get the gear off your dead body, why couldn't you after you respawn?  Besides, retrieving your gear from your dead body isn't an issue if you DON'T hang around the coast like 75% of the players on any given server at any given time.  When I die, I'm so far inland that I would never make it back in time.  As far as loot stashes and bases.......why WOULDN'T they still be there?  Just like retrieving gear from your dead body, other players still have access to it.

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1 hour ago, Stagman70 said:

If another player can get the gear off your dead body, why couldn't you after you respawn?  Besides, retrieving your gear from your dead body isn't an issue if you DON'T hang around the coast like 75% of the players on any given server at any given time.  When I die, I'm so far inland that I would never make it back in time.  As far as loot stashes and bases.......why WOULDN'T they still be there?  Just like retrieving gear from your dead body, other players still have access to it.

It’s just weird to me. Kinda like in apex legends you go against other characters, but their the same.

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1 hour ago, Stagman70 said:

If another player can get the gear off your dead body, why couldn't you after you respawn?  Besides, retrieving your gear from your dead body isn't an issue if you DON'T hang around the coast like 75% of the players on any given server at any given time.  When I die, I'm so far inland that I would never make it back in time.  As far as loot stashes and bases.......why WOULDN'T they still be there?  Just like retrieving gear from your dead body, other players still have access to it.

They have the idea of perma death, but once you die you can run back to your base. Idk, just seems weird. 

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Posted (edited)

dead players used to lie around on the ground for a long time in the old DayZ game - You could hear flies buzzing around them, so you knew there was a body somewhere close. Flies were COOL - follow the flies sound, find the body in th elong grass or behind a wall ..
In those days you could often run from where you respawned back to your body.
And sometimes jogging up a road somewhere - for no reason that you knew - you would find a player dead in the middle of the road with all his gear on him, or with his pockets mostly empty.. just dead & lying there and the flies buzzing.
That was fun and atmospheric & immersive. It was a gOOD thing to have in the game.. but recovering your own gear was a bit easy and some players thought it was not correct to do it.

The devs shortened the despawn of bodies down to the same despawn rate as any gear left lying around, so they stayed on the ground only a short time if no one was standing with them. That was a pity - for the immersion and gameplay.  The Devs did it to lighten the server load. It was necessary.. on a map you could have 40 fully kitted corpses lying around for hours, and the server grinding it's bearings just to deal with that

Now, if you are in a team, one or two will stay next to the body until their dead friend respawns and comes back to collect the gear.  that's common.

And that's how it goes : life is tough, death is tough, DayZ is supposed to be tougher. 

Generally : Anything you put in a game, some players will find a way round it.. As soon as persistence got going, loot stockpiling became a thing It became a bigtime gameplay.
Now some folk want Rust style forts that are "safe" from other players.. Perma-Death and real Gear-Loss is fading into the background of this game.

so - you can argue -  why bother having game death at all.; instead, when you get shot you can just respawn WITH all the gear you collected still on your back. That will make the game Shorter and Quicker and Easier and simpler. Right? Kind of capture the flag. Because Death just isn't important anymore in DayZ. It's inconvenient to waste 15 mins getting back to your loot stash, but that's ALL. Death is just a waste of your playing time, right?

It depends what you THINK DayZ is about - and what it was originally INTENDED to be about  - and why it became SO FAMOUS when PermaDeath was real.

Most players - if they designed the game they wanted - that game would be CRAP.. they wouldn't notice until they started playing their fantastic game that had everything THEY wanted in it.. then they'd realize they were in a CRAP game full of the CRAP they designed themselves.  95% of Players have NO idea how a game balances and how it WORKS or why it WORKS, even when they play it. So they ask for many things. Most of them would REALLY make the game Crapper.. but they don't understand why .. then when they spot how Crap it is, they go play some other game that does NOT have "what they want" in it - and THAT makes them happy.

*

say - Yoda wants to know - What happens in RUST when you die ?

 

Edited by pilgrim*
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8 minutes ago, pilgrim* said:

dead players used to lie around on the ground for a long time in the old DayZ game - You could hear flies buzzing around them, so you knew there was a body somewhere close. Flies were COOL - follow the flies sound, find the body in th elong grass or behind a wall ..
In those days you could often run from where you respawned back to your body.
And sometimes jogging up a road somewhere - for no reason that you knew - you would find a player dead in the middle of the road with all his gear on him, or with his pockets mostly empty.. just dead & lying there and the flies buzzing.
That was fun and atmospheric & immersive. It was a gOOD thing to have in the game.. but recovering your own gear was a bit easy and some players thought it was not correct to do it.

The devs shortened the despawn of bodies down to the same despawn rate as any gear left lying around, so they stayed on the ground only a short time if no one was standing with them. That was a pity - for the immersion and gameplay.  The Devs did it to lighten the server load. It was necessary.. on a map you could have 40 fully kitted corpses lying around for hours, and the server grinding it's bearings just to deal with that

Now, if you are in a team, one or two will stay next to the body until their dead friend respawns and comes back to collect the gear.  that's common.

And that's how it goes : life is tough, death is tough, DayZ is supposed to be tougher. 

Generally : Anything you put in a game, some players will find a way round it.. As soon as persistence got going, loot stockpiling became a thing It became a bigtime gameplay.
Now some folk want Rust style forts that are "safe" from other players.. Perma-Death and real Gear-Loss is fading into the background of this game.

so - you can argue -  why bother having game death at all.; instead, when you get shot you can just respawn WITH all the gear you collected still on your back. That will make the game Shorter and Quicker and Easier and simpler. Right? Kind of capture the flag. Because Death just isn't important anymore in DayZ. It's inconvenient to waste 15 mins getting back to your loot stash, but that's ALL. Death is just a waste of your playing time, right?

It depends what you THINK DayZ is about - and what it was originally INTENDED to be about  - and why it became SO FAMOUS when PermaDeath was real.

Most players - if they designed the game they wanted - that game would be CRAP.. they wouldn't notice until they started playing their fantastic game that had everything THEY wanted in it.. then they'd realize they were in a CRAP game full of the CRAP they designed themselves.  95% of Players have NO idea how a game balances and how it WORKS or why it WORKS, even when they play it. So they ask for many things. Most of them would REALLY make the game Crapper.. but they don't understand why .. then when they spot how Crap it is, they go play some other game that does NOT have "what they want" in it - and THAT makes them happy.

*

say - Yoda wants to know - What happens in RUST when you die ?

 

I love the permadeath, i do. But when you respawn and head back to your base it kinda defeats the purpose of dying. They put themselves in a weird corner, kind of a mix of wanting to be like rust or ark with base building, but still holding onto the roots of dayz. 

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4 hours ago, Hahahahagyvd said:

I love the permadeath, i do. But when you respawn and head back to your base it kinda defeats the purpose of dying. They put themselves in a weird corner, kind of a mix of wanting to be like rust or ark with base building, but still holding onto the roots of dayz. 

this has always been a problem since persistence became a main game element - people started stashing BIG piles of loot on one server, then going to a high pop server for the Saturday night mega-fight.. you get shot in five mins, so you spawn back to your stash server, tool up, and spawn back to the high pop server with the  big fight again. If that's the way some folk wanted to play it, I'm not saying they are "wrong" - but its playing Call of Duty with DayZ.
Then it was easier to hop to build up your stash of mil weapons for the big fights. Some public servers were just kicking everyone who wasn't in their 'clan' so their stash was safe, and then playing on other public servers. That got quite common. (a private hive server was more expensive than a public hive server - so servers were turning up with names like "Why should I pay so that you play?" and "Join and we kick you".. as actual listed server names. So there were problems about that. The server names got quietened down, but the kicking and the hopping and stashing did not.. Went on at that level for a LENGTH of time)

XzjlWqN.jpg

[ lol - see? From the old server list - ONE player on a Public server, there was only ever ONE player there for weeks, & you were kicked if you joined - there were dozens like this, max 3-4 players and "Keep Out"  ]

So private and whitelist servers became much more popular.   And also the Devs introduced a timer to slow down hopping - (the PC timer is STILL not long enough IMO, it should be 5 mins unless you have been on one server for 20 mins, minimum) ..
This is all legal play just "using" the rules of the game as they were then, in a way that was not intended (I hope it was not intended)  - I'm not counting duping, which is always stamped on fast (even if it takes a month after word gets out) it's stopped as soon as a new duping trick turns up and the Devs hear and find how it works.

On Xbox you don't have that "my server" problem &  "kick server"  - but you INHERIT the DayZ game that was altered (and goes on altering) to try to "even out" playstyles so that no single playstyle give you a BIG advantage over all the others, so that you CAN play how you like.  These problems were dealt with in the game (to some extent) in several different ways by the Devs - and now the PC result of all that ...  has turned up on Xbox !   (Yeaaaa !!)

All servers are public on Xbox, so anything that can mess up play between servers is open to everyone to do, and everyone is a victim of it. At least you know you CAN find someone's BIG mil stash without getting kicked off ..er .. as if for no reason (because they don't want you around their stash) .. So for Xboxers,  hopping is ATM the big problem. The WAY players move between servers on Xbox is not the same as the PC network (which is straight internet) - so that hopping problem has to be sorted in a way that works WELL for Xbox.

With all this - suddenly we get "bases" - lots of folk shouted for them, without considering how they would work in the game - ATM bases are long to build, not much use, and very easy to destroy.. BUT if you made them "safe" or seriously hard to destroy or had "invulnerable" stashes in them, then only clans would be able to have the advantage of them (the Rust problem)  and a clan (just a few players) with an "almost invulnerable" base would stash it full of mil gear, kill all the new spawns, and go play Call of Duty again, with the next base .. like I said right back at the start: Respawn, run back to your base to tool up (invulnerable) and go fight again. So the newspawns and the single players wouldn't stand much of a chance at all. They'd be dead before they could nail two planks together (hell, they'd be dead on the beach before they found a box of nails)

So how to balance bases so that they are useful but NOT invulnerable? Can only the base owners can spawn in to that base - so do you have a list of owners? (who decides what that is?) - if you kill the owner then is the base yours? =  Stuff like that = . How to make it NOT a huge advantage so 5 players in a  base can live forever and don't give a damn if they are shot, and they are back tooled up in 5 mins - AND also still make bases WORTH building (at all) and not just something that the first guy with an axe can destroy when you're offline. ??

IMO (specially on Xbox) it's very difficult to find that GOOD balance between TOO POWERFUL (that would wreck the game) and USELESS (because if bases are fairly useless, then what's the point?)

People now are saying they want "safe" bases, and "safe" stashes in bases - in DayZ that will NOT WORK, I swear - that will change DayZ completely into another game.

Remember this started as a SURVIVAL game.. the BIG AIM of the game was just to STAY alive as long as you could - nothing else - because pretty soon you would PERMA-DIE - that was the POINT of Dayz.. Just AVOID death as long as you can because you WILL DIE.   Don't get attached to your gear because when you DIE then you lose it .. you win Black-Screen, END, Dead.. Nothing.. Want to play again?  start from zero.. That was what the game was ABOUT.

Xboxers won't remember.. but before they revised THIS blog, it was done in DayZ theme & decor and  background (the beanz for comments is the only part of that left now)   - When you logged in the top of the main page HEADER was this, updated every day, and THIS was what the game was about. THIS was what made it so popular so fast. There  was nothing like it

 

                                                                2ukNuEh.png  

                                                                see what I'm getting at ?

 

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That's not very realistic if the loot despawns... you should just be able to go back to your body if you want, its still a risk either way because chances are someone killed you and took your loot already anyway so you wont find much.

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35 minutes ago, AndrzejHook said:

That's not very realistic if the loot despawns... you should just be able to go back to your body if you want, its still a risk either way because chances are someone killed you and took your loot already anyway so you wont find much.

How is it not realistic? If you die you die, you shouldn’t be able to run back and be geared again in minutes. 

 

1 hour ago, pilgrim* said:

this has always been a problem since persistence became a main game element - people started stashing BIG piles of loot on one server, then going to a high pop server for the Saturday night mega-fight.. you get shot in five mins, so you spawn back to your stash server, tool up, and spawn back to the high pop server with the  big fight again. If that's the way some folk wanted to play it, I'm not saying they are "wrong" - but its playing Call of Duty with DayZ.
Then it was easier to hop to build up your stash of mil weapons for the big fights. Some public servers were just kicking everyone who wasn't in their 'clan' so their stash was safe, and then playing on other public servers. That got quite common. (a private hive server was more expensive than a public hive server - so servers were turning up with names like "Why should I pay so that you play?" and "Join and we kick you".. as actual listed server names. So there were problems about that. The server names got quietened down, but the kicking and the hopping and stashing did not.. Went on at that level for a LENGTH of time)

XzjlWqN.jpg

[ lol - see? From the old server list - ONE player on a Public server, there was only ever ONE player there for weeks, & you were kicked if you joined - there were dozens like this, max 3-4 players and "Keep Out"  ]

So private and whitelist servers became much more popular.   And also the Devs introduced a timer to slow down hopping - (the PC timer is STILL not long enough IMO, it should be 5 mins unless you have been on one server for 20 mins, minimum) ..
This is all legal play just "using" the rules of the game as they were then, in a way that was not intended (I hope it was not intended)  - I'm not counting duping, which is always stamped on fast (even if it takes a month after word gets out) it's stopped as soon as a new duping trick turns up and the Devs hear and find how it works.

On Xbox you don't have that "my server" problem &  "kick server"  - but you INHERIT the DayZ game that was altered (and goes on altering) to try to "even out" playstyles so that no single playstyle give you a BIG advantage over all the others, so that you CAN play how you like.  These problems were dealt with in the game (to some extent) in several different ways by the Devs - and now the PC result of all that ...  has turned up on Xbox !   (Yeaaaa !!)

All servers are public on Xbox, so anything that can mess up play between servers is open to everyone to do, and everyone is a victim of it. At least you know you CAN find someone's BIG mil stash without getting kicked off ..er .. as if for no reason (because they don't want you around their stash) .. So for Xboxers,  hopping is ATM the big problem. The WAY players move between servers on Xbox is not the same as the PC network (which is straight internet) - so that hopping problem has to be sorted in a way that works WELL for Xbox.

With all this - suddenly we get "bases" - lots of folk shouted for them, without considering how they would work in the game - ATM bases are long to build, not much use, and very easy to destroy.. BUT if you made them "safe" or seriously hard to destroy or had "invulnerable" stashes in them, then only clans would be able to have the advantage of them (the Rust problem)  and a clan (just a few players) with an "almost invulnerable" base would stash it full of mil gear, kill all the new spawns, and go play Call of Duty again, with the next base .. like I said right back at the start: Respawn, run back to your base to tool up (invulnerable) and go fight again. So the newspawns and the single players wouldn't stand much of a chance at all. They'd be dead before they could nail two planks together (hell, they'd be dead on the beach before they found a box of nails)

So how to balance bases so that they are useful but NOT invulnerable? Can only the base owners can spawn in to that base - so do you have a list of owners? (who decides what that is?) - if you kill the owner then is the base yours? =  Stuff like that = . How to make it NOT a huge advantage so 5 players in a  base can live forever and don't give a damn if they are shot, and they are back tooled up in 5 mins - AND also still make bases WORTH building (at all) and not just something that the first guy with an axe can destroy when you're offline. ??

IMO (specially on Xbox) it's very difficult to find that GOOD balance between TOO POWERFUL (that would wreck the game) and USELESS (because if bases are fairly useless, then what's the point?)

People now are saying they want "safe" bases, and "safe" stashes in bases - in DayZ that will NOT WORK, I swear - that will change DayZ completely into another game.

Remember this started as a SURVIVAL game.. the BIG AIM of the game was just to STAY alive as long as you could - nothing else - because pretty soon you would PERMA-DIE - that was the POINT of Dayz.. Just AVOID death as long as you can because you WILL DIE.   Don't get attached to your gear because when you DIE then you lose it .. you win Black-Screen, END, Dead.. Nothing.. Want to play again?  start from zero.. That was what the game was ABOUT.

Xboxers won't remember.. but before they revised THIS blog, it was done in DayZ theme & decor and  background (the beanz for comments is the only part of that left now)   - When you logged in the top of the main page HEADER was this, updated every day, and THIS was what the game was about. THIS was what made it so popular so fast. There  was nothing like it

 

                                                                2ukNuEh.png  

                                                                see what I'm getting at ?

 

I do. I feel like base building shouldn’t have been implemented if they were going after the nomadic “survive or die” aspect. Should’ve kept it at stashes and tents. On Xbox everyone I run into has an m4 or an svd. They die, and they run back to base and have it all immediately. They caught themselves in a pickle and it’s gunna be hard to find a nice balance on Xbox 

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Even more the Xbox community is toxic. Any glitch or exploit they find they use it 95% of the time because they want an unfair advantage because they don’t wanna lose their loot. Hopefully this update for us will solve the duping and meatballing. 

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permadeath is the reason why you are motivated to start building a base in the first place

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37 minutes ago, Hahahahagyvd said:

How is it not realistic? If you die you die, you shouldn’t be able to run back and be geared again in minutes. 

How is it realistic if it disappears? I guess a magical wizard came by and just went poof and you're shit is disappeared.  The game was morefun when you could run back and get your loot, or have your buddy save your stuff for you and bring it to you.

Seems like they just wanna make this game a more of a pain in the ass to play with every measure they bring in, including the dumb timer they added... its literally pointless cause people will abuse it anyways, all they have to do it wait for the timer

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8 minutes ago, AndrzejHook said:

Seems like they just wanna make this game a more of a pain in the ass to play with every measure they bring in, including the dumb timer they added

yes DayZ is made on purpose to be a pain in the ass :
- Why can't you just log in, go straight to the WIN screen, and log out ??  

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3 minutes ago, pilgrim* said:

yes DayZ is made on purpose to be a pain in the ass :
- Why can't you just log in, go straight to the WIN screen, and log out ??  

Clearly you missed my point.  

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18 minutes ago, AndrzejHook said:

Clearly you missed my point.  

There is not point. It’s a hardcore survival game. You clearly don’t understand the best part about the game is getting geared up. You’re probably one of the people who dupe because you just gotta have mAtcHiNg BDU or full ghillie. 

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Too often people are more concerned with the destination, trying to hurry their way through the journey.

Trouble is, in an apocalypse, the destination is death.

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30 minutes ago, Hahahahagyvd said:

There is not point. It’s a hardcore survival game. You clearly don’t understand the best part about the game is getting geared up. You’re probably one of the people who dupe because you just gotta have mAtcHiNg BDU or full ghillie. 

If you actually play on xbox, youll know right now that high pop servers are basically bunch of pant-less fresh spawns running around trying not to get killed by base building dupers that are invisible... OR you're just a solo runner who goes inland and avoids any interactions in game.  There is no destination... there is no apocolypse either lol its a joke. Hopefully after this update that they are planning things will get better

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11 hours ago, Hahahahagyvd said:

They have the idea of perma death, but once you die you can run back to your base. Idk, just seems weird. 

I build a base with some friends.  If I die and THEY live, should the base disappear then, screwing them in the process?  I don't think so.

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10 hours ago, Hahahahagyvd said:

I love the permadeath, i do. But when you respawn and head back to your base it kinda defeats the purpose of dying. They put themselves in a weird corner, kind of a mix of wanting to be like rust or ark with base building, but still holding onto the roots of dayz. 

The only way to avoid it is to NOT have base building.

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3 hours ago, Hahahahagyvd said:

How is it not realistic? If you die you die, you shouldn’t be able to run back and be geared again in minutes. 

 

I do. I feel like base building shouldn’t have been implemented if they were going after the nomadic “survive or die” aspect. Should’ve kept it at stashes and tents. On Xbox everyone I run into has an m4 or an svd. They die, and they run back to base and have it all immediately. They caught themselves in a pickle and it’s gunna be hard to find a nice balance on Xbox 

I agree with the tent and stash only aspect.  Also, I think the spawning of military weapons should be a dynamic event just like crash site spawns.  Perhaps have only a certain number of military grade weapons, say FIVE, spawn in on a map at any given time, and only be available for say 10 minutes, then despawns.  That way, military weapons are unicorns, and people would be less inclined to be careless enough to lose their highly prized loot.

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