Jump to content
bonafide

RIP DayZ - Yogcast started a LP

Recommended Posts

More players means a better mod for us in the long run. You think that people are gonna run out' date=' buy Arma, and play this mod just because of ONE video?

[/quote']

Ohohohoooo man. You don't know the Yognaughts. Not at all.

Yea do you know how many people watch thier videos? Well the have over ONE MILLION subscribers and at least 10% will check out the mod probably more. Their subscribers are mostly minecrafters which will post about how ridiculously hard the game is and complain but at least they won't be shoot'em up CoD kiddies :)


This is one of those things where complaining about it makes you look like an idiot' date=' but you can't help hating it. I think these guys are great, but they did kind of give this mod a bad impression. Most of their fans on the YouTube comments are taking the piss out of the DayZ players who play for immersion and atmosphere. Whereas they may want to come in guns blazing. Hard to really make an argument about it, since it's so pointless. Yes, the game is about immersion, but if the community starts to get snobby and arrogant to the Yogscast fans (I have no doubt there will be an army of them soon), it's going to really ruin the experience, it'll give the mod an awful name if the community all start acting like up tight hardcore gamers. I agree with some of you that it may be bad publicity, but it's not our right to tell people if they can play.

[/quote']

We have the right to voice our opinion about the matter. Also the DayZ community currently consists of 1/10 of the Yogcast fan base. They will become a major part of the community maybe even the majority against the original DayZ players. They will make playing less enjoyable but maybe after seeing what this game is about they might leave and return to CoD or minecraft.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right then. Last picture. I promise. Just couldn't pass this one up.

Thank you, Yognaughts. I'm glad that is your priority in comments.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right then. Last picture. I promise. Just couldn't pass this one up.

Thank you' date=' Yognaughts. I'm glad that is your priority in comments.

[/quote']

Now that's funny! That second post got 14 'thumbs up' in four minutes. Quality. More please!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They're so unfunny. This was even before this LP. 2 years ago my friends tried to turn me on them but I continuously told them they were annoying and unfucking funny.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont know if they will come here, if you watch paulsoarsjr's vids you'll see that there is a minecraft server called MineZ modeled after DayZ. I hope they all go there lol. Also, paul has a great playthrough much more of what a DayZ Vid should be i think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rocket on disparaging new players, thought I'd leave this here.

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=3771&pid=34498#pid34498

Shame on all of you who are complaining about new players. Seriously. Shame on you and your entitlement. For how long have we' date=' the ArmA2 community, been asking for some mainstream attention? For how long have we moaned that CoD and BF get all the glory, and we're on the sidelines? They are giving us that attention now. And I mean, if you don't want it... fine - that is probably better for me personally because people will think this is all me. But what I have been at pains to do is to make this the ArmA communities chance to shine. And at every turn I see some of these posts. And I shake my head...

Yes. New people bring new cultures, new problems, lack of understanding. But they bring new revenue, new ideas, new life, new volunteers, new tactics,...

I'm just... I'm lost for words. I have seen these threads on other places, but to see such a thread here on the DayZ forums breaks my heart. I hope that you wake up and realize this is our chance to show people what ArmA2 can do. To take it mainstream. Or are you quite happy with the scraps of the sideline? Do you realize how difficult it is for developers like BIS as technology development costs increase?

You moan about having no friends to play with, then when you get friends you don't want to share your toys.

Grow up.

[/quote']

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rocket on disparaging new players' date=' thought I'd leave this here.

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=3771&pid=34498#pid34498

Shame on all of you who are complaining about new players. Seriously. Shame on you and your entitlement. For how long have we, the ArmA2 community, been asking for some mainstream attention? For how long have we moaned that CoD and BF get all the glory, and we're on the sidelines? They are giving us that attention now. And I mean, if you don't want it... fine - that is probably better for me personally because people will think this is all me. But what I have been at pains to do is to make this the ArmA communities chance to shine. And at every turn I see some of these posts. And I shake my head...

Yes. New people bring new cultures, new problems, lack of understanding. But they bring new revenue, new ideas, new life, new volunteers, new tactics,...

I'm just... I'm lost for words. I have seen these threads on other places, but to see such a thread here on the DayZ forums breaks my heart. I hope that you wake up and realize this is our chance to show people what ArmA2 can do. To take it mainstream. Or are you quite happy with the scraps of the sideline? Do you realize how difficult it is for developers like BIS as technology development costs increase?

You moan about having no friends to play with, then when you get friends you don't want to share your toys.

Grow up.

Still think you guys are missing the point.

Don't want less players. But we want players who actually know how to play the game, rather than believing they'll be able to get on the YogsCast private server and get pistols and morphine and et cetera right off the beach.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While its true there are a few entitled people, a few hipsters in this thread, I think what most of us have a problem with is the way the mod is depicted.

Sure you can look at it as publicity, any such being a good thing depending on your viewpoint, but the fact of the matter is they're falsely representing the game for new players. I think its a shame, DayZ deserved a better LP.

Still, if this just ends up getting a tiny fraction of their subscribers genuinely hooked on the DayZ experience, its a win.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

without any interjection of emotion or elitism, the fact remains. They weren't really playing the mod. Dealing with zombies in this game, as it stands today is easy mode. its the pvp that brings that x factor. Its the adrenaline rush that being defenseless brings you upon spawn. That first frantic hour or two as you, against all odds, attempt to become self sufficient without being killed by zeds or players.

If you just make this game about the zombies, ditching the desperate need to find a weapon, or to be careful around high traffic areas, what have you got?

I don't think rocket's post applies here to be honest. The influx of players will be great, and those of us that have expeience with this game will reap the rewards for some time to come, but just for entertainment purposes, i don't think anyone is out of line in pointing out a farce when they see one. We are not obligated to like and support something we feel is disingenuous. By the same token, if anyone here has no problem with the "fixed game" approach, then you're entitled to that opinion.

I personally wouldn't be interested in watching a basketball game where you automatically get 2 points on the other team just for dribbling the ball successfully, but that's just me. (bad analogy on short notice, i know)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm actually amused by this thread, especially with one of the latest comments

''But we want players who actually know how to play the game, rather than believing they'll be able to get on the YogsCast private server and get pistols and morphine and et cetera right off the beach. ''

What!? first anyone new to the game will never know how to play the game until they've played it as for the believing, that isn't quite true have you even ventured onto the yogcasts forums you can actually find alot of intellectual people on their forums, not all of them are children or atleast act like children. Also majority of Yogscast followers already know they don't actually represent a game how it should be as they cheat and just generally mess about while playing a game it's more screaming and screw ups or literally how not to play the game. They're entertainment that is all they are, nothing more nothing less.

Also So what if they come, hate it and quit or cry it's funds in the pockets of BIS, more money = more on development of future products, of course many may cry and bitch on the forums but wow it's not like thats not happening already, infact the extreme fanboyisim that this mod has next to yogscast community is just about the same level of idiocy. So who cares Yogcast are attempting to show a game off in an entertaining way, maybe not true to how it's played but their community understands that and many will give it a try, many will bring intresting debates while others will bitch nothing new here, so move on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm actually amused by this thread' date=' especially with one of the latest comments

''But we want players who actually know how to play the game, rather than believing they'll be able to get on the YogsCast private server and get pistols and morphine and et cetera right off the beach. ''

Okay, great way to misconstrue my words. I'll give you a +1 for that. But I'm pretty sure you could pick up what I was getting at with the latter half the post. As in to say, we just want the YogsCast to play the game legitimately, rather than showcasing it in an easy-mode that will be unattainable for 99% of the players in this game.

If a legitimate first look is too much for them to handle, or it's too boring for viewers to watch, the I think we know the answer as to what's going to happen there. Tons of other Let's Players have clearly pulled it off without the help of admins, and I'm quite sure the YogsCast can do it too.

Also, how can their community understand that the way they're showcasing isn't how it's played? They've seen nothing to contrast that at large. Sure, I'm quite sure a sect of the community already knows that how it was played on the video is nothing like it is in-game. But what about those who are completely ignorant to DayZ, sans this video?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay' date=' great way to misconstrue my words. I'll give you a +1 for that. But I'm pretty sure you could pick up what I was getting at with the latter half the post. As in to say, we just want the YogsCast to play the game legitimately, rather than showcasing it in an easy-mode that will be unattainable for 99% of the players in this game.[/quote']

There is no other way to construe that sentence in it's entirety

''Don't want less players. But we want players who actually know how to play the game, rather than believing they'll be able to get on the YogsCast private server and get pistols and morphine and et cetera right off the beach. ''

This was aimed at new players brought in by Yogcast and by this you're implying they won't know how to play the game because they watched a video of two people they enjoy watching alot knowing very well they never play by the rules, everything I said stands prior to this comment.

It seems as though you misconstrued your own sentence, you should of stated the Yogcast rather than players, which is vague to say the least and why I read it the way I did.

If a legitimate first look is too much for them to handle' date=' or it's too boring for viewers to watch, the I think we know the answer as to what's going to happen there. Tons of other Let's Players have clearly pulled it off without the help of admins, and I'm quite sure the YogsCast can do it too.[/quote']

Now onto your second point, Once again Yogscast especially honeydew and BlueXephos are known to play or showcase games in an unconventional way and anyone watching them for a long time would know this, their point is to entertain it's not rocket science. Also you're acting as if players will see this and not see other videos of the game on youtube, thats like saying players have just seen guys rolling in two jeeps a bus and a truck.. it's not very realistic that many will ever get that chance and people be like oh this game is great we can get vehicles and drive around then get in game and cry about no vehicles.

Also' date=' how can their community understand that the way they're showcasing isn't how it's played? They've seen nothing to contrast that at large. Sure, I'm quite sure a sect of the community already knows that how it was played on the video is nothing like it is in-game. But what about those who are completely ignorant to DayZ, sans this video?

[/quote']

Once again, they watch the Yogcast because they know exactly what they're like and expect from them, they have minds and can look up other videos and read the forums, if they don't then so what let them cry that they just wasted money because they got it for a mod that they thought was something else, that isn't a yogcast problem thats a problem in general life and they're called idiots, do you go on the word of your favourite gamer/reviewer on the basis they said the game sucks, everyone has their own tastes but also everyone always look into it, I guess you could call it common sense which evidently idiots lack, that is the way of the world, now is there any more weak arguments for the ''Oh no Yogcast hath brought Armageddon upon us''.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is no other way to construe that sentence in it's entirety

''Don't want less players. But we want players who actually know how to play the game' date=' rather than believing they'll be able to get on the YogsCast private server and get pistols and morphine and et cetera right off the beach. ''

This was aimed at new players brought in by Yogcast and by this you're implying they won't know how to play the game because they watched a video of two people they enjoy watching alot knowing very well they never play by the rules, everything I said stands prior to this comment.

It seems as though you misconstrued your own sentence, you should of stated the Yogcast rather than players, which is vague to say the least and why I read it the way I did.[/quote']

Actually, there is a way to misconstrue it. As in to say, the exact way you accomplished, by reading it in segments rather than a complete thought. I gave an example of what I was looking for in a player (someone who knows how to play the game) with no real context. What context I was searching for was a player who is familiar with how DayZ works. They'd be familiar with how DayZ works had the YogsCast given a more accurate depiction of the game. The second part of that sentence, which you decided was not part of my idea, was the type of players that could be drawn from that video, given the basis of what they saw depicted by the YogsCast.

In short, you pretty much made me out as the bad guy who didn't want anybody who didn't know how to play at all to even glance at 'the holy mod'. What I was realistically saying is that I'm already sick and tired of seeing threads on this forum asking about nonsense that's in patch notes and the game description, and I don't really want a whole new 'generation' (if we could call them that) coming in and trying to argue that 'because the YogsCast did it, we should be able to do it too', as evident from some of the comments below the video.

Granted, I didn't exactly word it quite as well, and I apologize for that. But I'm really just tired of all the complaining we get here from greenhands who don't know two bits about what they're talking and wanted to cut the snake off at the head.

Now onto your second point' date=' Once again Yogscast especially honeydew and BlueXephos are known to play or showcase games in an unconventional way and anyone watching them for a long time would know this, their point is to entertain it's not rocket science. Also you're acting as if players will see this and not see other videos of the game on youtube, thats like saying players have just seen guys rolling in two jeeps a bus and a truck.. it's not very realistic that many will ever get that chance and people be like oh this game is great we can get vehicles and drive around then get in game and cry about no vehicles.[/quote']

To be honest with you, with how a majority of the Yognaughts have handled themselves on the handful of mods I supported that were mod-reviewed, I can seriously assess that yes, they will watch one video and think they know how the game/mod works or just cry in the comments that they can't get it to work and that they YogsCast needs to make an installer for it. To this day, we still get the occasional Yognaught popping into the BTW forums asking about the YogBox or whatever silly pack they're working on now.

Either way, none of that honestly matters, because if every other video on DayZ can be done fairly and entertainingly, why do the YogsCast get a free card? It just further digs them into the hole. Being edgy and unconventional aren't always the best way of presenting something, and I honestly feel that's definitely the case of DayZ, which is already a hard enough mod for greenhands as is.

Once again' date=' they watch the Yogcast because they know exactly what they're like and expect from them, they have minds and can look up other videos and read the forums, if they don't then so what let them cry that they just wasted money because they got it for a mod that they thought was something else, that isn't a yogcast problem thats a problem in general life and they're called idiots, do you go on the word of your favourite gamer/reviewer on the basis they said the game sucks, everyone has their own tastes but also everyone always look into it, I guess you could call it common sense which evidently idiots lack, that is the way of the world, now is there any more weak arguments for the ''Oh no Yogcast hath brought Armageddon upon us''.

[/quote']

Already summarized these points above. (Why I think their unconventional coverage for this mod wasn't necessary and why it's a problem to people like me on the forums who actually genuinely like to answer questions of people who are learning the game.) I don't understand why you feel the need to justify their way of making their video. If I have a problem with it, I have the right to critique it. I felt it wasn't up to standards for a DayZ video, and I will stand by that.

I don't watch a DayZ video for the comedy. Sure, something funny might happen here or there like a possessed ATV doing the dance of his people, or someone might brighten the mood a bit with a tiny anecdote about how he saw a pair of survivors fighting over a can of beans with nothing but fire axes. But for the most part, I watch to be enthralled and feel the intensity of the setting, feel the pulse-pounding action that's going on with the survivors involved, how they plan to outwit their foes. I didn't get any of that out of the YogsCast video, and I simply made a suggestion that they change their showcase of content.

Will I watch further DayZ videos from them if this is how they're going to play out? No, of course not. I now know what to apparently expect, as does everyone who watched the video. And from what I read in the comments, if the way they play doesn't change, to a more 'traditional' playthrough for DayZ, they're not going to pull as many views as I'm sure that they're expecting.

I'd like to just say that I don't have any vindication for the YogsCast or their viewers. Sure, I've been at ends with Simon and Lewis before, but I tend to stand on a 'issue-by-issue' basis when it comes to the two of them. And for the viewers, I know how dumb the community can be at large. But I also know that there are those few shining nuggets on the beaches. But for the most part, the Yognaught fanbase isn't very bright, and I hold them to it.

Anyways, the whole point of why I'm giving this critique to them is so they will be able to pull in more viewers. Would I have loved to see the two of them scavenge for their first weapon? Hell yeah, that would've been more entertaining to me than Ridge just giving them their first pistols (or, as some people want to believe, them finding them and then starting their recording for some reason). Watching them maneuver around zombies, completely defenseless, would've been grand. And my other big complaint is that there really isn't a point. If they run across anybody else on Ridge's server, are they really going to have that tension of being shot at by complete strangers? That's really a core part of DayZ, the human interaction with complete and utter anonymous individuals, to me and many others.

As it is, though, I fear they're going to lose potentially thousands of views simply because they couldn't be bothered to play it without admin support, in what many DayZ fans would qualify as an authentic play style.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually' date=' there is a way to misconstrue it. As in to say, the exact way you accomplished, by reading it in segments rather than a complete thought. I gave an example of what I was looking for in a player (someone who knows how to play the game) with no real context. What context I was searching for was a player who is familiar with how DayZ works. They'd be familiar with how DayZ works had the YogsCast given a more accurate depiction of the game. The second part of that sentence, which you decided was not part of my idea, was the type of players that could be drawn from that video, given the basis of what they saw depicted by the YogsCast.

In short, you pretty much made me out as the bad guy who didn't want anybody who didn't know how to play at all to even glance at 'the holy mod'. What I was realistically saying is that I'm already sick and tired of seeing threads on this forum asking about nonsense that's in patch notes and the game description, and I don't really want a whole new 'generation' (if we could call them that) coming in and trying to argue that 'because the YogsCast did it, we should be able to do it too', as evident from some of the comments below the video.

Granted, I didn't exactly word it quite as well, and I apologize for that. But I'm really just tired of all the complaining we get here from greenhands who don't know two bits about what they're talking and wanted to cut the snake off at the head.[/quote']

All this is mute considering it's how you worded it which in it's entirety does not suggest what you start to discuss in your second reply.

Your words ''I didn't exactly workd it quite as well'', I am happy to ignore this part.

To be honest with you' date=' with how a majority of the Yognaughts have handled themselves on the handful of mods I supported that were mod-reviewed, I can seriously assess that [b']yes, they will watch one video and think they know how the game/mod works or just cry in the comments that they can't get it to work and that they YogsCast needs to make an installer for it. To this day, we still get the occasional Yognaught popping into the BTW forums asking about the YogBox or whatever silly pack they're working on now.

Either way, none of that honestly matters, because if every other video on DayZ can be done fairly and entertainingly, why do the YogsCast get a free card? It just further digs them into the hole. Being edgy and unconventional aren't always the best way of presenting something, and I honestly feel that's definitely the case of DayZ, which is already a hard enough mod for greenhands as is.

With as many subs that they have it's not really unexpected they will accumulate idiots within their community this isn't the fault of Yogcast or infact a reflection of the community surrounding them, but I do know how bad they can get just as I stated with the extreme fanboyism of this mod of which they're both same side of the coin, idiocy.

Well alot of the playthroughs aren't exactly a true representative of what the game is about, many of the more known streamers or gamers tend to stick with showing gameplay down in the cities thats only a tiny bit of it and it's all action, then you have the different play style up north. Total biscuits if anything shows abit, he didn't show himself starting out with nothing, of course he noted he found an AFK player and stole the guys stuff from his backpack but he was instantly next to Rocket. Rocket also did a live stream with some guy I can't recall his name he was with a huge group of people, now mind you I only watched the last 20-30 mins of it but even then that didn't fully show the game for what it is, ok it had the basics in there get food, water, stealth to avoid zombies and all that, not sure if he actually showed himself spawning on his own and making his way to Rocket, probably not in that circumstance. Now of course those two are more lets plays with an interview but thats besides the point the gameplay is being shown.

Now with the Yogcast they're not denying that they're being helped in anyshape or form, they're not misleading anyone at all so anyone with a right mind would know that it's going to be alot different in game, sure they started together and both with m1911's thats no difference to starting right next to rocket in the beginning of the interview lets plays.

There is no harm being done what so ever, these guys aren't abusing it to gain an advantage they're simply doing it to make it alittle bit easier for them to put a series of shows together as they're busy with others aswell. They're publicising the game for free to many many of their subscribers who are intelligent enough to figure out on their own that the game isn't going to be like that. Seriously this is just alot of hot air for nothing, take them for what they are and forget about it, I didn't like their first Dayz video either but it gives players who haven't heard of it yet awareness it's around.

Already summarized these points above. (Why I think their unconventional coverage for this mod wasn't necessary and why it's a problem to people like me on the forums who actually genuinely like to answer questions of people who are learning the game.) I don't understand why you feel the need to justify their way of making their video. If I have a problem with it' date=' I have the right to critique it. I felt it wasn't up to standards for a DayZ video, and I will stand by that.

I don't watch a DayZ video for the comedy. Sure, something funny might happen here or there like a possessed ATV doing the dance of his people, or someone might brighten the mood a bit with a tiny anecdote about how he saw a pair of survivors fighting over a can of beans with nothing but fire axes. But for the most part, I watch to be enthralled and feel the intensity of the setting, feel the pulse-pounding action that's going on with the survivors involved, how they plan to outwit their foes. I didn't get any of that out of the YogsCast video, and I simply made a suggestion that they change their showcase of content.

Will I watch further DayZ videos from them if this is how they're going to play out? No, of course not. I now know what to apparently expect, as does everyone who watched the video. And from what I read in the comments, if the way they play doesn't change, to a more 'traditional' playthrough for DayZ, they're not going to pull as many views as I'm sure that they're expecting.

I'd like to just say that I don't have any vindication for the YogsCast or their viewers. Sure, I've been at ends with Simon and Lewis before, but I tend to stand on a 'issue-by-issue' basis when it comes to the two of them. And for the viewers, I know how dumb the community can be at large. But I also know that there are those few shining nuggets on the beaches. But for the most part, the Yognaught fanbase isn't very bright, and I hold them to it.

Anyways, the whole point of why I'm giving this critique to them is so they will be able to pull in more viewers. Would I have loved to see the two of them scavenge for their first weapon? Hell yeah, that would've been more entertaining to me than Ridge just giving them their first pistols (or, as some people want to believe, them finding them and [i']then starting their recording for some reason). Watching them maneuver around zombies, completely defenseless, would've been grand. And my other big complaint is that there really isn't a point. If they run across anybody else on Ridge's server, are they really going to have that tension of being shot at by complete strangers? That's really a core part of DayZ, the human interaction with complete and utter anonymous individuals, to me and many others.

As it is, though, I fear they're going to lose potentially thousands of views simply because they couldn't be bothered to play it without admin support, in what many DayZ fans would qualify as an authentic play style.

Well I've already covered points in the last part so I'll try and avoid ground I've covered. I have a problem with you labeling an entire community into one, which is what I've been getting from you, I also was commenting in my first post to other people in this entire thread. I'm not getting at the point of you disliking it, I don't care if you hated the video or love it, I'm simply saying it is what it is and it's not to be taken seriously, I've watched many Dayz videos on youtube which are all about fun now does that affect the playerbase, you, me or anyones opinions of it, no not really because it is what it is. They're not pretending or atleast trying to decieve what the game is all about they're simply trying to do it in an entertaining way and they've admitted they were given and helped by Ridgedog. This community needs to lighten up abit especially with the carebear/cod attitudes.

And I'll skip right to the end, you fear they could potentially lose viewers I highly doubt that as thats what the viewers tune in for the banter and the nonsense that goes with the Yogcast. This whole debate is done as much as I want to continue with pagefuls of replies, this conversation will simply go in circles.

Point is it's not something to really give two shits about, they're bringing in players/customers their viewers will watch and it doesn't have any bad impact on anyone so there is nothing more to dicuss

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And I'll skip right to the end' date=' you fear they could potentially lose viewers I highly doubt that as thats what the viewers tune in for the banter and the nonsense that goes with the Yogcast. This whole debate is done as much as I want to continue with pagefuls of replies, this conversation will simply go in circles.

Point is it's not something to really give two shits about, they're bringing in players/customers their viewers will watch and it doesn't have any bad impact on anyone so there is nothing more to dicuss

[/quote']

But the big problem I have with this is that they're not going to just tune in for the banter and the nonsense. Go unmark half of the spam comments in that video, and you'll see how it's people who enjoy DayZ basically complaining how horribly the two of them handled showcasing the mod.

They will lose viewers on that specific series. It's a fact. Hell, even look at the like/dislike bar. It's a tremendous tell that people weren't pleased with what they saw.

As someone who quite values what YouTube is, it's important that people realize these types of things. And to be honest, the YogsCast has never been very great with PR. That's why I'm very stern with the points I made here, and really would like people to realize that these point can cost them possibly hundreds of dollars in ad revenue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stopped at "This is a game that is really old".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If they play anything like they play minecraft they will spend more time dead than alive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On this note, episode two is out.

Granted, they're still on a private server and Ridge is still playing god for them. But they actually scavenge weapons this time around!

(Still boring as hell for me, though.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I unsubscribed, long time ago i watched the videos, but havent bothered unsubscribing, but the Dayz Vid, tipped the edge :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×