Missing cartridges

[-Gews- 7443]

DayZ has a few firearms that are using the wrong ammunition. To correct this, new cartridges must be added to the game. Here's a list of the cartridges that are needed and the weapons that should be using them.
 

.30-06 Springfield

Should be used in:
"Winchester Model 70"

Succeeded in military service by the shorter 7.62 NATO (.308 Winchester), the .30-06 is probably the most common centrefire hunting cartridge. Known for its supreme versatility. Typical advertised ballistics for the two most common loads are a 150-grain bullet at 2,910 ft/s or a 180-grain bullet at 2,700 ft/s from a 24" barrel. The 180-grain bullet is favoured for larger animals.

Mass (gr)    Velocity (ft/s)    Energy (ft lb)    
150    2910    2,820    
180    2700    2,913
(factory advertised)

In hunting loads it is slightly more powerful than the .308. In DayZ this would have around 10% more damage than the .308 (7.62 NATO from 22" barrel).

 

.338 Winchester Magnum

Should be used in:
"Winchester Model 70"

.33-caliber belted magnum introduced 1958 (the first Model 70 'Alaskan' came shortly after). Typically 200 or 250-grain bullets are advertised at 2,960 and 2,660 ft/s respectively. The 300-grain bullet was discontinued and the 225-grain took its place as the third 'standard' weight, usually launched at an advertised 2,780-2,800 ft/s. Has a bit of a reputation for mean recoil thanks to the many lightweight rifles it is offered in. Enough for the largest of North American game, this cartridge is well-suited to hunting elk, moose and brown bear. The .338 Win Mag can reach out far, but was not meant for extreme ranges or sniping, unlike some other .338's (eg, Lapua).

Mass (gr)    Velocity (ft/s)    Energy (ft lb)    
200    2960    3890
225    2800    3916
250    2660    3927
(factory advertised)

In DayZ this round would have 50-60% more damage than the .308.

 

.300 Winchester Magnum

Should be used in:
"Winchester Model 70"

Five years after the .338, Winchester introduced a new .30-caliber magnum. This would be the flattest-shooting round in DayZ, and an excellent choice for sniping to the edge of the network bubble. A very popular magnum cartridge.

Mass (gr)    Velocity (ft/s)    Energy (ft lb)    
150    3290    3605
180    2960    3501
(factory advertised)

In DayZ this round would have 36% more damage than the .308.

 

.32 Automatic (7.65 mm Browning)

Should be used in:
"CZ61 Skorpion"

This small round is in fact a .30-caliber, like many .32s. The muzzle energy is low, similar to that of a .22 rifle. This cartridge propels a 71-74 grain, .308 to .311-inch bullet at about the same speeds as the .380's 93-95 grain, .355-inch projectiles. The damage would be put somewhere between the current .380 and the .22. Control would be improved on the vz. 61 thanks to lower recoil.

Mass (gr)    Velocity (ft/s)    Energy (ft lb)    
71    905    129
73    984    158

In DayZ the .32 Automatic would have 70-85% of the .380's damage.

 

9 mm Makarov (9x18 mm)

Should be used in: 

"Makarov IJ70"
"PM73 RAK"
[upcoming PB pistol]

This was developed by the Russians to replace the 7.62 mm Tokarev. They wanted a cartridge that could be used in a new blowback pistol. Military ammunition usually has a mild steel core. Nominal velocity from the Makarov PM is 315 m/s. The bullet diameter is slightly larger than the .380 and 9 mm NATO, and the ogive usually blunter. Slightly higher power than the .380.

Mass (gr)    Velocity (ft/s)    Energy (ft lb)    
92    1033    218

Fit within the current rounds, this would have around 10% more damage than the .380 ACP, and around 30% less than the 9 mm NATO.

 

 

Weapons using incorrect ammunition

Back in the day there was much fuss about the 'streamlining' of ammunition. When it came to 9 mm pistols and submachine guns, the original plan was to have everything use 9 mm NATO. This made many people upset. Those people demanded the 9 mm Makarov be added (among others, including 7.62x54R and 5.45x39 mm). 

Eventually the developers compromised: they would add the .380 ACP instead, because that name sounds distinct from "9 mm", and because many of the firearms that use 9 mm Makarov are also available in .380. I thought this was funny because the .380 ACP is also known as the 9x17 mm, the 9 mm Kurz, 9 mm Browning Short, etc. I also thought it was unnecessary—a new ammo type is being added either way, and if players can't tell the difference between "9 mm Makarov" and "9 mm NATO" they will probably not be able to tell the difference between ".380" and "9 mm". It also is silly to have no 9 mm Makarov in a country that uses the PM as its service pistol. Still, the .380 was much better than having Makarovs in 9 mm Luger.

However, the DayZ team did not take enough care when either choosing weapons to use the new .380 cartridge, or when buying existing models, because none of the ".380" weapons depicted are the .380 versions. All of them clearly use either 9 mm Makarov or other cartridges. 

 

The "Makarov IJ70" has a blurb in the description about how it is a civilian variant chambered in .380. It's not. The model is clearly a PMM, a version that was designed to use special overpressure ammunition and 12-round double stack magazines (this is also obvious when looking at the mag models). Note the angular slide vs the rounded slide of the Makarov PM or civilian Baikal pistols. The PMM was never offered to civilians, and obviously, was only produced in 9 mm Makarov, never in .380 Automatic.  

Makarov PMM: note angular slide.

High-capacity Baikal: what was intended... kind of (the devs gave our gun only 8 rounds like a regular Mak). Note round-top slide.


The "PM73 RAK" is also incorrect. This is a model of a PM-63 in 9 mm Makarov. We know this because there are no images of a true .380 PM-73 on the internet. The PM-73 was produced in very small numbers, perhaps only a handful of prototypes. The artist clearly created a PM-63 and it was labeled it as "PM-73". 

The "CZ61 Skorpion" is incorrect. The .380 versions are the vz. 64 or vz. 83, the vz. 61 was only made in 7.65 mm/.32 Auto. Second, the .380 versions use straight magazines instead of the curved .32 magazines. If this model was made from scratch, the artist could have modeled the .380 version, so why do we have a model of the .32 version? Was the model not created for DayZ in the first place? Perhaps some artist had a model of a vz. 61 sitting around unused?

We were supposed to get the one on the left...

The PB is an integrally-suppressed pistol based on the Makarov, and was only produced in 9 mm Makarov. Enough said.

As for rifles:

The Winchester Model 70 was introduced in 0.56 Experimental. Unfortunately, the developers chose the 'Alaskan' variant. That version is currently offered in the following cartridges only:

.30-06 Springfield
.300 Winchester Magnum
.338 Winchester Magnum
.375 Holland & Holland Magnum

Instead of adding one of the above, they made this gun use the .308 Winchester.

The 'Alaskan' was never offered in .308. 'Alaskan' brings to mind large and powerful cartridges (when the 'Alaskan' model was first offered in the '60s, you could only get it in .338 and .375 flavours). The 25-inch barrel is overkill for the efficient .308. In addition this is a long-action Model 70, and the .308 is a short-action cartridge. Winchester has made specific short-action Model 70s since the early '80s.

It's obvious why they picked the 'Alaskan' version—only two Model 70s are currently offered with iron sights on winchester.com. One is the 'Alaskan' and the other is the 'Safari Express'. American hunters, by and large, tend not to need or want iron sights on their bolt guns. The Model 70 'Classic Hunter' is available for the European market with a battue rib, but that doesn't come in .308 either.

What's not obvious is why they picked the Winchester Model 70 in the first place. There are plenty of bolt-action rifles from other manufacturers, with iron sights, that are offered in .308. Picking a rifle that doesn't come in the cartridge you want doesn't make sense. I can't understand the weapon selection process.

Moving on: Looking at the model, we can rule out the .375 H&H Magnum. The receiver on the .375 has some differences to accommodate the longer cartridge, the gun in DayZ does not display these. That means it is either a .30-06, a .300 Win Mag, or a .338 Win Mag. Pick one. I assume Alaskans in the last two are more common.

 

Honourable mentions:

The so-called "AK101" is simply a copy-paste of the AK74. It is a relic from a time when the DayZ team did not wish to add 5.45 mm. We now have 5.45 mm, so this incorrectly-labeled variant should either be removed entirely, or have the name changed to "AK74M", the caliber changed to 5.45 mm, and be spawned with the black plastic furniture. This doesn't need a new cartridge to be fixed.

The "B95" is apparently not available with .308 in both barrels. The error is small, the list of available cartridges very large. I can't get too worked up about it.

I felt this was more appropriate for 'General Discussion'. More musing than a real suggestion.

Edited January 13, 2017 by -Gews-

[BeaverProductions 441]

As a UK citizen, who had never fired a gun or had an interested in ammunition, I can't admit to understanding a lot of this but I enjoyed reading it and fully support a move towards correctly using the appropriate caliber for the guns in game

[JBURNS489 165]

9 hours ago, BeaverProductions said:

As a UK citizen, who had never fired a gun or had an interested in ammunition, I can't admit to understanding a lot of this but I enjoyed reading it and fully support a move towards correctly using the appropriate caliber for the guns in game

What does being a UK citizen have to do with anything? lol. There is a perception that every American is a gun enthusiast, and it couldn't be further from the truth. I am an American, and I hardly know anything about guns in real life, yet was still able to follow most of what he said. Since you are from the UK, I just have to assume it's a reading comprehension issue, cause you know, people from the UK can't read very well. See what I did there? :)

Edited January 14, 2017 by JBURNS489

[sneakydude 480]

20 hours ago, -Gews- said:

DayZ has a few firearms that are using the wrong ammunition. To correct this, new cartridges must be added to the game. Here's a list of the cartridges that are needed and the weapons that should be using them.

Being politically correct is a good step in the right direction for immediate change.

A) It is rather easy to cut and paste the same image but call it something different.

It doesn't have to involve more images created, but a copy and paste look of the various types will fill that error.

It is only minor research errors and Gews would find it for sure.

Good job buddy.

[sneakydude 480]

9 hours ago, BeaverProductions said:

As a UK citizen, who had never fired a gun or had an interested in ammunition, I can't admit to understanding a lot of this but I enjoyed reading it and fully support a move towards correctly using the appropriate caliber for the guns in game

Beaver, you have many different weapons used in the Military, which many of us in Canada and US use too.

UK, uses pretty much most of what Canada, and US use. We have been allies forever. We also sell and buy from the UK.

Canada and UK are more alike in gun control that is basically what i think you meant correct?

[Old Man River 14]

As a true American gun enthusiast, I would love to see this implemented.  But, I don't know what kind of impact it would ultimately have on the game play or how practical it would be.  Of the rounds listed, my experience in the field has been a minimal difference between the .308 and 30.06.  When I fire the .338 - HOLY COW (my neighbor has Lapua Magnum), the recoil is extreme when compared to the smaller cartridges, akin to firing the akm in game.  No matter which way you slice it these rounds have massive stopping power.  When on the range on in the field, I find myself using my AR-10 with .308 as opposed to my bolt action springfield .30-06 (could be that the AR is just sexier).

[BeaverProductions 441]

3 hours ago, JBURNS489 said:

What does being a UK citizen have to do with anything? lol. There is a perception that every American is a gun enthusiast, and it couldn't be further from the truth. I am an American, and I hardly know anything about guns in real life, yet was still able to follow most of what he said. Since you are from the UK, I just have to assume it's a reading comprehension issue, cause you know, people from the UK can't read very well. See what I did there? :)

See this is where the reading or perhaps understanding comprehension has come in.

I was saying that I have had no access to any weapon growing up apart from an air rifle, so I know absolutely nothing about guns and ammo over what I have learned from gaming (specifically DayZ). 

My post had nothing to do with calling Americans 'gun toting', you just decided to read 2+2 and come out with 5 as the result

Edited January 14, 2017 by BeaverProductions

[JBURNS489 165]

1 hour ago, BeaverProductions said:

See this is where the reading or perhaps understanding comprehension has come in.

This I agree on. +1 to this thread  :)

[ColdAtrophy 1850]

Another fantastic weapons post from Gews. +1

If complexity was a problem for us, none of us would be here. This game is fairly complex, constantly changing, and offers literally zero assistance, hints, or tips to the player.