Gear getting destroyed

[Evilsausage 87]

I know its Alpha and they wanna test the system. But can't they tell its too much currently?

Its silly now how  two bullets can for example destroy everything in a backpack, jacket and west. All the cans, hundreds of rounds of ammo, other weapons, bandages etc.

Yes it punish people who kill others. But its far from realistic and not really fun. It also punish people who just happend to take a hit but get and then realize 50% of their gear and all of their bandages somehow has blown to peices.

It really needs to be toned down.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Evilsausage

[Mookie (original) 799]

IME it's actually about right. I disagree that 'two bullets' will completely ruin everything. When I take a round or two, it's usually (at most) everything in a particular item of clothing and that item of clothing itself. In many cases the items are not ruined, but nudged down one or two rungs down on the condition ladder 

And when people magdump into each other (often the case where 'shock reaction' shootings are concerned) it's right that all or most of the gear should be screwed. 

[Evilsausage 87]

I have seen cases where when you shoot the torso, everything like the west, jackat and even the backpack gets affected. I don't mind that some gear can get damaged, but don't fool yourself by saying one bullet hitting your backpack should effect all the gear in it. Thats completly unrealistic. 
its also silly how rags or bandages would become unusable from something like that.

 

Its a attempt to prevent kill on sight mentality and i don't mind it if it was more toned down and more believable. Still even with this system people kill eachother and the reason is because thats the only really fun thing to do in the game. If there where other real actuall threats like zombies, enemy NPCs and all that im sure it would force people to team to team up. Having a system that basically destroyes all gear from a few bullets is just dumb.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Evilsausage

[sneakydude 480]

You are about right by stating your concerns. Many of us will feel the same about realistic. Death on the other hand can happen by just 1 bullet.

If i am correct, Wobo may have put a video out there on the HP system. I understand it to be the HP top down system. If your HP start to reduce so does your gear, slowly destroying piece by piece until everything is destroyed.

To adjust this, we have containers to protect our items inside.

5 cloths = 1 cloth (understand they count as 1)

To change this whole system we would need a completely different way, by looking at the HP system different then the HP top down system effecting gear. Instead have so many HP until your dead, and when it reaches 75% or 50% of heath then start reducing gear values.

GEWS is best to do the charts for us, and explain it by graphs. But over all the system would be reduced by 25% to 50% of item destruction.

Make sense?

 

Otherwise a completely seperate system will have to be used. HP system separate from the Clothing system. If the bullet hit the chest reduce items in that area only. Every time a bullet hits the body, that area gets effected only.

Example

1 bullet hits my helmet (Type of bullet = DPS%) 5.56 lets say for example is 85% compared to the top bullet in the game Damage value 8000 / 85%.

Helmet is pristine = 100% and valued at 50HP

Body HP value not sure its true rate = 10000

So if the rate of the bullet single shot =6800 (8000/85%)

for every 1000bullet DPS value we reduce the Helmet value by  25hp notch until it is ruined.

Helmet 50HP - 35HP worn - 20HP damaged - 5HP badlydamaged - 0HP Ruined.

This has taken the helmet below zero = 0HP ruined.

Anything after 0hp is reduced by the heath factor 2*25hp =50hp=2000dps off the 6800 we are reduced to 4800 off the total of 10000hp value.

 

Your still alive the helmet has saved your life but you are pretty hurt.

Since most 5.56 are burst type chances are the other bullet hit you in the chest.

 

This is not true math, this is not really thought threw, and it really just made sense to use it here. Many ways something can go from ruined by 1 bullet but not 6 items all at once by a 5.56 shot. The only way to do that is by a burst method of 3 shots to the chest.

By that time a simple vest is completely ruined and so is your body chest... chances are your dead.

 

Edit = Since we are all full of beans, i thought i would use it here.

Forgot to mention, 6 items in the chest each have different values. Such as a can of beans.... having a value of 5hp

Chest value = 45hp, jacket = 10hp and 6 cans of beans each adding 5hp (not realistic because bullet can hit any of the 6 slots)

in the end......

Pffffffffft....... pew

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 12, 2016 by sneakydude

[Red_Ensign 990]

sure we can tone that down.  as soon as you can't run at full speed immediately after morphine fixes your leg getting shot off.

and tip: spread your bandages around so one unlucky hit doesn't ruin your entire bandage stock.  I know this and I don't even shoot at people.

[Evilsausage 87]

7 hours ago, sneakydude said:

You are about right by stating your concerns. Many of us will feel the same about realistic. Death on the other hand can happen by just 1 bullet.

If i am correct, Wobo may have put a video out there on the HP system. I understand it to be the HP top down system. If your HP start to reduce so does your gear, slowly destroying piece by piece until everything is destroyed.

To adjust this, we have containers to protect our items inside.

5 cloths = 1 cloth (understand they count as 1)

To change this whole system we would need a completely different way, by looking at the HP system different then the HP top down system effecting gear. Instead have so many HP until your dead, and when it reaches 75% or 50% of heath then start reducing gear values.

GEWS is best to do the charts for us, and explain it by graphs. But over all the system would be reduced by 25% to 50% of item destruction.

Make sense?

 

Otherwise a completely seperate system will have to be used. HP system separate from the Clothing system. If the bullet hit the chest reduce items in that area only. Every time a bullet hits the body, that area gets effected only.

Example

1 bullet hits my helmet (Type of bullet = DPS%) 5.56 lets say for example is 85% compared to the top bullet in the game Damage value 8000 / 85%.

Helmet is pristine = 100% and valued at 50HP

Body HP value not sure its true rate = 10000

So if the rate of the bullet single shot =6800 (8000/85%)

for every 1000bullet DPS value we reduce the Helmet value by  25hp notch until it is ruined.

Helmet 50HP - 35HP worn - 20HP damaged - 5HP badlydamaged - 0HP Ruined.

This has taken the helmet below zero = 0HP ruined.

Anything after 0hp is reduced by the heath factor 2*25hp =50hp=2000dps off the 6800 we are reduced to 4800 off the total of 10000hp value.

 

Your still alive the helmet has saved your life but you are pretty hurt.

Since most 5.56 are burst type chances are the other bullet hit you in the chest.

 

This is not true math, this is not really thought threw, and it really just made sense to use it here. Many ways something can go from ruined by 1 bullet but not 6 items all at once by a 5.56 shot. The only way to do that is by a burst method of 3 shots to the chest.

By that time a simple vest is completely ruined and so is your body chest... chances are your dead.

 

Edit = Since we are all full of beans, i thought i would use it here.

Forgot to mention, 6 items in the chest each have different values. Such as a can of beans.... having a value of 5hp

Chest value = 45hp, jacket = 10hp and 6 cans of beans each adding 5hp (not realistic because bullet can hit any of the 6 slots)

in the end......

Pffffffffft....... pew

 

 

 

 

 

I think your complicating things. I don't really mind if my jacket gets ruined from two bullets even if its a tad extreme.
Its all the other gear that somehow takes a equal amount of damage from a single bullet. How could a bullet somehow destroy 5 cans of food, 6 cans of soda, 2 guns, 100 rounds of ammo, 2 bandages, a compas, a gun sight and one can opener? It just becomes ridiculous.

Instead each time a bullet hit a certain part maybe a certain % of the items get affected, while others not at all. It could be completley random, but since larger items take more slots they are more likely to get affected.

 

 

[Mookie (original) 799]

Strictly speaking, bullets can break up on impact. And when they don't, they punch holes in many things.

Sneaky is right that there is an underlying form of maths to bullet damage. Protectors, etc, obviously protect the items inside from some degree of damage. But the fewer the number of items in any given piece of clothing, the more actual damage you will take as a player. So, being a purist (as I think the Wobo videos show in past patches), the best armour is keeping your clothing full of individual items - the cost being that there is nothing protecting them from damage effects.

And Red is also right in that this is one of many (many, many...) things that are not 100% realistic in game.

[sneakydude 480]

10 hours ago, Evilsausage said:

I trieI think your complicating things. I don't really mind if my jacket gets ruined from two bullets even if its a tad extreme.
Its all the other gear that somehow takes a equal amount of damage from a single bullet. How could a bullet somehow destroy 5 cans of food, 6 cans of soda, 2 guns, 100 rounds of ammo, 2 bandages, a compas, a gun sight and one can opener? It just becomes ridiculous.

Instead each time a bullet hit a certain part maybe a certain % of the items get affected, while others not at all. It could be completley random, but since larger items take more slots they are more likely to get affected.

 

 

I tried my very best to explain an already complex system the devs have to use to reduce health and gear at the same value. Remember nothing is finalized, all maths, systems can be changed at any time.

Understand most of what the more experienced users, and official, and non official words are telling us about the system. It took a very long time for me to understand the whole idea behind the current system. I had my doubts if it was correct.

There is always a 1000 ways to program in different methods, in the case of this, we could have even a damage engine control everything for us in the future.

 

[Evilsausage 87]

1 hour ago, Mookie (original) said:

Strictly speaking, bullets can break up on impact. And when they don't, they punch holes in many things.

Sneaky is right that there is an underlying form of maths to bullet damage. Protectors, etc, obviously protect the items inside from some degree of damage. But the fewer the number of items in any given piece of clothing, the more actual damage you will take as a player. So, being a purist (as I think the Wobo videos show in past patches), the best armour is keeping your clothing full of individual items - the cost being that there is nothing protecting them from damage effects.

And Red is also right in that this is one of many (many, many...) things that are not 100% realistic in game.

Yes a bullet can break in to peices but you must have a big imagination to think one bullet could affect backpack full of gear. There is no way in million it could somehow split into peices and go through all kinds of stuff in all direction on a big backpack.
Thats why I think its exadgerated and it only seems like a poor attempt to prevent kill on sight thinking. So yeah i think the system is flawed...I don't expect full realism but this is just kinda silly.

[sneakydude 480]

On 7/13/2016 at 7:18 AM, Evilsausage said:

Yes a bullet can break in to peices but you must have a big imagination to think one bullet could affect backpack full of gear. There is no way in million it could somehow split into peices and go through all kinds of stuff in all direction on a big backpack.
Thats why I think its exadgerated and it only seems like a poor attempt to prevent kill on sight thinking. So yeah i think the system is flawed...I don't expect full realism but this is just kinda silly.

Your not the only one that doesn't like the system. I don't expect them to touch this one until beta at the very least.

and i bet chances are it goes the way you suggested, about gear loss as a whole.

Guessing, betting (counting on it being just a simple placeholder until a real system is out)

 

[BeefBacon 1185]

I hate the item damage system. If I get shot in the leg, everything in my trousers should not burst into flames. There should be a chance for one or two items to become damaged or ruined, but not a near-certainty that everything will be ruined. Things like food should never become ruined, but they should lose their contents. Maybe if a can of peaches gets 'ruined' you stand to lose 20% - 90% of the contents, as though you've opened them with an inappropriate tool. Zombies should be able to damage clothing, but not their contents. Ruined and damaged clothing should have considerable drawbacks - reduced protection from the elements, perhaps. Currently I think the only drawback is they provide less physical protection. Given that you can repair clothing to a worn condition, pristine clothing should be far superior to worn clothing - and so players should spawn with damaged clothing to make finding new clothing a top priority.

The way stacks are handled should be changed as well. The only way you're going to ruin 40 rounds of loose ammo is if you send them through a grinder. However, I would like to see wetness play a role in damaging items. Some items should be immune - why would a sealed can of beans become damaged by water? Why would a bottle of water? Ammo and guns should be damaged very slightly by water, especially if they get soaked rather than damp. Rice and cereal should also degrade, and wet sticks, matches, paper an so on should have a high chance of failing to catch fire. Electrical equipment (rangefinder, flashlight, cattle prod, whatever else) should also have a good chance of becoming damaged, and a small chance of becoming ruined if used while wet. I digress however.

Edited July 14, 2016 by BeefBacon

[Wili 156]

I was hit once with a baseball bat with nails today and all my items in the chest were ruined, even my magnum was ruined.

Even worse than getting items ruined is the damage protection items gives you, you can kill a fresh spawn with one magnum shot but you can unload a full magazine into a full geared soldier and they probably will not die because the quantity of items they are carrying, a well placed magnum shot to the chest should put you to the ground no matter what you are carrying.

Edited July 23, 2016 by Wili

[ebrim 998]

You guys need to stop getting shot.

This all said, I did recently get shot. After flipping the guy who was shooting at me off I decided I'd pull my trusty glock with one bullet in it and return fire. Obviously, I was keeping it my jacket because it would be easy to reach and when I went to unleash retributive justice all it did was "click click click". Meanwhile the douchebag continued shooting at me. So I chased him around a bit with my hatchet and then we parted ways. Later I found that he had shot my glock as well as ruined the hiking jacket it was in. :( That little sidearm saved my life.