Unconscious Timer

[[TAW] GunRunner 53]

Just a quick idea I thought of that may spark more player interaction, and I was wondering what you all thought.

BACKSTORY: We ran into a group the other day, killed two and knocked one out. We were going to attempt to restrain and patch up the last guy, but unfortunately he clicked "Respawn" before we could even get the rope on him. Had he not done that, he would have been allowed to live with some of his gear (sans weapon) and wouldnt have had to make the run all the way back to Vybor from the coast. I'm sure he thought we were immediately going to kill him anyway so he chose to respawn, but had he waited or been FORCED to wait, he would have came out alive and our encounter would have been that much more fulfilling. (see the video below for the encounter if you wish)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C7sRoe5qAk

SUGGESTION: Add a "timer" of sorts that does not allow you to respawn immediately upon falling unconcious to increase the amount of kidnappings/restraints of downed players. Anywhere from 2-5 minutes after falling unconcious where the "respawn" button is unclickable would allow the opportunity for people to patch up fallen survivors, but still allow people to off themselves if they get "stuck" as unconscious for an extended period.

I'm no game developer by any means, but I don't THINK it would be terribly difficult to add that functionality. What do you guys think of the idea?

Edited April 4, 2016 by GunRunner
Added a bit more to the suggestion,

[Rags! 1966]

People choose to respawn of their own free will. There are never forced into making that decision. If somebody is kidnapped and they do not want to be kidnapped, they will just respawn. If they cannot respawn, they will just log out and play another server instead since they're going to the coast anyway.

[[TAW] GunRunner 53]

1 hour ago, Rags! said:

People choose to respawn of their own free will. There are never forced into making that decision. If somebody is kidnapped and they do not want to be kidnapped, they will just respawn. If they cannot respawn, they will just log out and play another server instead since they're going to the coast anyway.

I should have probably mentioned that the incident happened on a private server. So I suppose I am suggesting to have the option available on private servers, but I don't think it would be bad to have it set across public too. Sure, if they want to log out to kill themselves they will. And sure, they may end up getting the good old "double tap" sometimes. As of now, if you log out while unconscious or restrained, you instantly die. But by not making it easy for them to just click "Respawn" and essentially commit suicide just because they are unconscious, you would be enabling more chances for player interaction.

After all, this is supposed to be a survival game. If you go unconscious, don't you want to survive? Allowing such quick respawning feeds the PvP-only mentality, and takes away quite a great deal from those who actually TRY to interact with people (even after shooting them down).

Another thing the devs (and the rest of you) should consider when thinking about this idea:  The new non-lethal weaponry that will be eventually coming into the game. If people just click respawn so quickly after they get knocked unconscious, its not very "non-lethal"  :/

EDIT: This game is supposed to be a "perm-a" death scenario. If they go unconscious and want to quit, shouldn't they be forced to log out of the server at the least? Clicking "Respawn" on unconscious is essentially saying "Well... lets try again". If they want to remain on the server, shouldn't they play the situation out for the duration? This would be especially prevelant in the popular private servers, where they would essentially be forced to give up their player slot to the people spamming to join. I supposed I could make an argument about "Respawning" in general, but thats a different topic :P

Edited April 4, 2016 by GunRunner

[Kohlbar 270]

To be honest I think the only reason they give the option to respawn while unconscious is because a lot of people DO get stuck in it right now. I've been unconscious for 15+ minutes before and never woke up, and I've heard of people waiting up to 30 minutes before dying, which is probably just starving to death at that point. I don't know how long unconsciousness should take, but I've heard that there's supposed to be a limit on maximum time before you know you're basically bugged. I agree that people should be forced to wait while they're knocked out, but it would be much better for everyone if the unconscious state was reliable.

[[TAW] GunRunner 53]

In order to get "stuck" in an unconcious state, you would have to lose enough blood to keep you down, not be bleeding, and not have enough energy/hydration to heal yourself over time. If that is the case, then yes it will take a long time because you will essentially have to die from the elements. It can happen any number of ways, and isnt uncommon.

If you watch the video below, you can see that he lost enough blood to go unconscious. When he did, his teammates bandaged him but didnt have a saline. Since he was fully hydrated and energized he was able to generate enough health to wake back up. On the flip side, later in the video one of the other guys wasnt so lucky. He was bandaged, but didnt have enough energy/hydration to get back up. Luckily, he was force-fed enough water and food to get back up at the very end.

I don't think the unconscious state is really bugged at all. Just some people put themselves in better positions than others. If you are prepared for the worst, you just might pull through.

But even still, if this is implemented and if they are "stuck" as unconscious they would still have the option to log out to kill themselves. Adding this as a feature would simply make it more "perma-death"-like as it is intended to be, as well as some of the extra benefits I mentioned above.

Edited April 5, 2016 by GunRunner

[S3V3N 1402]

The last three times I wanted to heal someone and tie them up afterwards, they had already died when I got there. I suspect at least one of them immediately respawned after getting downed. So yeah, it does take away from the fun. I also wish there was some kind of visual indication for how long a body will stay revivable. I've missed upon reviving my friends in time, often for only a second or two. If before they go limp and drop their gun, they'd make some noises or a gesture to indicate that you have e.g. 15 more seconds that would make things a lot more managable. I wasn't really very successful with reviving strangers for a while, so your suggestion is pretty good.

The problem is just what Kohlbar said - if the entire system is still buggy, we can't hope for a reliable timer, either. And I'm with him on this. Since the whole medic part of the game needs overhaul to be made working right, we'll probably see a lot better functionality in the future. It's just always that same answer...which annoys me too!

After infected pose a problem and we actually heal much more often, we'll need the medical system to be spot on. So do I think this system needs refinement? - Yes! Do I think it needs it now? - No, but keep that in mind, because reviving people would be fun. I'm thinking perhaps after 10 seconds or so change the view to 3rd person (even on a 1 person server), so the downed survivor can see if anyone is trying to help him up. I'm regularly completely surprised by my revive, because I heard and saw nothing until then.

[Luftpancake 94]

On 4/4/2016 at 4:55 PM, GunRunner said:

I cJust a quick idea I thought of that may spark more player interaction, and I was wondering what you all thought.

BACKSTORY: We ran into a group the other day, killed two and knocked one out. We were going to attempt to restrain and patch up the last guy, but unfortunately he clicked "Respawn" before we could even get the rope on him. Had he not done that, he would have been allowed to live with some of his gear (sans weapon) and wouldnt have had to make the run all the way back to Vybor from the coast. I'm sure he thought we were immediately going to kill him anyway so he chose to respawn, but had he waited or been FORCED to wait, he would have came out alive and our encounter would have been that much more fulfilling. (see the video below for the encounter if you wish)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C7sRoe5qAk

SUGGESTION: Add a "timer" of sorts that does not allow you to respawn immediately upon falling unconcious to increase the amount of kidnappings/restraints of downed players. Anywhere from 2-5 minutes after falling unconcious where the "respawn" button is unclickable would allow the opportunity for people to patch up fallen survivors, but still allow people to off themselves if they get "stuck" as unconscious for an extended period.

I'm no game developer by any means, but I don't THINK it would be terribly difficult to add that functionality. What do you guys think of the idea?

I completely agree, and frankly, fuck anyone that doesn't agree. It ruins the game if someone respawns when you're either A trying to revive them, or B trying to take them hostage. It gets to the point where I have to stand over someone's body and scream in the microphone "DON'T RESPAWN, I'll SAVE YOU!"

[Luftpancake 94]

On 4/5/2016 at 6:12 AM, S3V3N said:

The last three times I wanted to heal someone and tie them up afterwards, they had already died when I got there. I suspect at least one of them immediately respawned after getting downed. So yeah, it does take away from the fun. I also wish there was some kind of visual indication for how long a body will stay revivable. I've missed upon reviving my friends in time, often for only a second or two. If before they go limp and drop their gun, they'd make some noises or a gesture to indicate that you have e.g. 15 more seconds that would make things a lot more managable. I wasn't really very successful with reviving strangers for a while, so your suggestion is pretty good.

The problem is just what Kohlbar said - if the entire system is still buggy, we can't hope for a reliable timer, either. And I'm with him on this. Since the whole medic part of the game needs overhaul to be made working right, we'll probably see a lot better functionality in the future. It's just always that same answer...which annoys me too!

After infected pose a problem and we actually heal much more often, we'll need the medical system to be spot on. So do I think this system needs refinement? - Yes! Do I think it needs it now? - No, but keep that in mind, because reviving people would be fun. I'm thinking perhaps after 10 seconds or so change the view to 3rd person (even on a 1 person server), so the downed survivor can see if anyone is trying to help him up. I'm regularly completely surprised by my revive, because I heard and saw nothing until then.

I don't know if they'll do the thirdperson thing, just because they're going for realism, but what I'm thinking is along the same lines. Kind of like what they did for ACE 2 in ARMA 2, you open your eyes for 5 seconds and blackout again about every 20 seconds.

[pilgrim* 3514]

On 09/04/2016 at 7:52 AM, billnyetherussianpie said:

I completely agree, and frankly, fuck anyone that doesn't agree.

nice -

So you and your mates knock someone unconscious and sit around laughing every time you wake him up (make sure you do it do it before his respawn timer runs out) then knock him out again - So he gets to watch a black screen for as long as YOU feel like - maybe an hour or three - for exactly as long you want to grief him.  He gets a couple of hours of black screen -in chunks that won't let him log out - plus every 5 mins he's  revived by your gang and knocked out again -  so he doesn't get to play the game that day. You could call in your friends to keep him for longer, - take shifts.. see if you can keep him for a day or so.. 

ATM if he logs out unconscious he dies - Add the respawn timer and now you can work on him every 5 mins to stop him from logging out.at all.  Then how does the dude leave the game?  He's bored or (even) pissed because your gang has been griefing him for a couple of hours and it looks like you might go on doing that all night. What is to stop you? So what does he do?
Does he have to pull the plug on the game to turn it off?  And if he does that without waiting for the respawn timer (so you can't revive him and knock him out again before the timer runs out) does he die?
Or is he still alive and unconscious  so he re-spawns right back with your gang again?  I guess he has to wait till he's sure you logged out, or else he'll land back unconscious in the same place and you'll be there to start griefing him again.   Hmmm..

I know you wouldn't act that way, only BAD players would do that. - guys, it's maybe a great "idea", but it won't work and you've got to think of something else.. you see what BAD players could do with it..

Edited April 22, 2016 by pilgrim*

[Luftpancake 94]

On 4/22/2016 at 3:48 AM, pilgrim* said:

nice -

So you and your mates knock someone unconscious and sit around laughing every time you wake him up (make sure you do it do it before his respawn timer runs out) then knock him out again - So he gets to watch a black screen for as long as YOU feel like - maybe an hour or three - for exactly as long you want to grief him.  He gets a couple of hours of black screen -in chunks that won't let him log out - plus every 5 mins he's  revived by your gang and knocked out again -  so he doesn't get to play the game that day. You could call in your friends to keep him for longer, - take shifts.. see if you can keep him for a day or so.. 

ATM if he logs out unconscious he dies - Add the respawn timer and now you can work on him every 5 mins to stop him from logging out.at all.  Then how does the dude leave the game?  He's bored or (even) pissed because your gang has been griefing him for a couple of hours and it looks like you might go on doing that all night. What is to stop you? So what does he do?
Does he have to pull the plug on the game to turn it off?  And if he does that without waiting for the respawn timer (so you can't revive him and knock him out again before the timer runs out) does he die?
Or is he still alive and unconscious  so he re-spawns right back with your gang again?  I guess he has to wait till he's sure you logged out, or else he'll land back unconscious in the same place and you'll be there to start griefing him again.   Hmmm..

I know you wouldn't act that way, only BAD players would do that. - guys, it's maybe a great "idea", but it won't work and you've got to think of something else.. you see what BAD players could do with it..

Sorry, late reply. I've been busy. I had already thought of that, I was considering maybe everytime the character, if using the same character, would have a reduced timer everytime he or she goes unconscious within that life. When you think about it, i'm not sure how much they'll be able to bash his skull in anyways, about after 2 to 3 times, he'll die of brain damage. When you go unconscious, your brain smacks against your skull, damaging it slightly. So, if repeated, he'll just die anyway. As for tasers and tranq guns, overdose on traq = Death, too much taser = Cardiac arrest, leading to death.

[Parazight 1599]

On ‎4‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 5:49 PM, [TAW] GunRunner said:

 Allowing such quick respawning feeds the PvP-only mentality, and takes away quite a great deal from those who actually TRY to interact with people (even after shooting them down).

It seems to me that you did interact.  The other party didn't like your interaction (being shot at) so he did what made sense to him.

 

See, torture and restraining a person in DayZ will never be, or feel, authentic.   In real life, if you're being held as a prisoner, or being tortured, you have no options.  In DayZ, if you're not having fun being the victim of torture, you simply log out and join one of the other private servers you have toons on, or just respawn.  Additionally, the effects of permadeath are really insignificant.  Persistence is real.  Respawning in the face of torture or captivity is actually quite logical.   You respawn,  then suicide-respawn to get back to where you want (where you were being held captive)  then run to one of your nearby camps to grab some weapons in order to carry out your revenge.

No one will ever be able to successfully grief you if you simply plan ahead! 

There will always be clever work-arounds available to gamers during situations that mirror real life scenarios. 

[[TAW] GunRunner 53]

On 4/22/2016 at 3:48 AM, pilgrim* said:

ATM if he log out unconscious he dies - Add the respawn timer and now you can work on him every 5 mins to stop him from logging out.at all.

 

On 4/4/2016 at 6:49 PM, [TAW] GunRunner said:

EDIT: This game is supposed to be a "perm-a" death scenario. If they go unconscious and want to quit, shouldn't they be forced to log out of the server at the least? Clicking "Respawn" on unconscious is essentially saying "Well... lets try again". If they want to remain on the server, shouldn't they play the situation out for the duration? This would be especially prevelant in the popular private servers, where they would essentially be forced to give up their player slot to the people spamming to join. I supposed I could make an argument about "Respawning" in general, but thats a different topic :P

Im sure you were directly responding to what billnye said, but my original suggestion was to only put a timer on the "Respawn" button itself. In my opinion, if somebody doesnt want to play out the situation they are put in they should at least be forced to leave the server. I never suggested the devs force a player to sit through the entire duration of their unconscious state. (read the quote above for my reasoning)

 

On 5/19/2016 at 6:02 PM, Parazight said:

-snip-

Sure... as I said above my suggestion was only to put a timer on the respawn button itself. If people REALLY dont want to wait or are getting griefed they would still have the option to log-out. Thats the workaround. Thats the grief protection. But on the highly populated servers that have tons of people spamming to join, having to log out would be more costly than simply clicking "respawn" while unconscious and running back to your body in hopes they left some scraps (or haven't even looted you yet). I really don't see many negatives to this, and the few that people might try and make a case about are minimal compared to the positive things that could come of this

Edited May 20, 2016 by [TAW] GunRunner

[Luftpancake 94]

3 hours ago, [TAW] GunRunner said:

 

Im sure you were directly responding to what billnye said, but my original suggestion was to only put a timer on the "Respawn" button itself. In my opinion, if somebody doesnt want to play out the situation they are put in they should at least be forced to leave the server. I never suggested the devs force a player to sit through the entire duration of their unconscious state. (read the quote above for my reasoning)

 

Sure... as I said above my suggestion was only to put a timer on the respawn button itself. If people REALLY dont want to wait or are getting griefed they would still have the option to log-out. Thats the workaround. Thats the grief protection. But on the highly populated servers that have tons of people spamming to join, having to log out would be more costly than simply clicking "respawn" while unconscious and running back to your body in hopes they left some scraps (or haven't even looted you yet). I really don't see many negatives to this, and the few that people might try and make a case about are minimal compared to the positive things that could come of this

The conch shell has spoken!