Anyone feel like hunger/thirst have been out of whack since forever?

[infiltrator 275]

We're used to it by now.. and I know the "balancing" is yet to come, but this isn't something that takes any effort (lowering/raising a few variables).

 

Does it make sense that you drink 5 canteens of water, run for 15-20 minutes, and dehydrate?

 

How about eating 6-8 cans of beans and still being hungry?

 

I don't think you should stop every 20 minutes because you're thirsty/hungry. When you drink 3 liters of water and you're all set, I should be hydrated for the next hour even under the harshest conditions. Same goes for food. When you're hungry, even a little bit counts, and by that, I don't mean a bag of rice and 5 cans of spaghetti.

 

Perhaps the food items should be scarcer to compensate, but I think that the rate at hunger/thirst tick by default should definitely be lowered.

[hrdrok 183]

  On 9/22/2015 at 1:39 PM, Infiltrator said:

We're used to it by now.. and I know the "balancing" is yet to come, but this isn't something that takes any effort (lowering/raising a few variables).

 

Does it make sense that you drink 5 canteens of water, run for 15-20 minutes, and dehydrate?

 

How about eating 6-8 cans of beans and still being hungry?

 

I don't think you should stop every 20 minutes because you're thirsty/hungry. When you drink 3 liters of water and you're all set, I should be hydrated for the next hour even under the harshest conditions. Same goes for food. When you're hungry, even a little bit counts, and by that, I don't mean a bag of rice and 5 cans of spaghetti.

 

Perhaps the food items should be scarcer to compensate, but I think that the rate at hunger/thirst tick by default should definitely be lowered.

 

This problem will get worse when they lower the speed of which we move. Making looting harder as we won't cover as much distance. In my mind food is too easy to find, and they need to continue to lower its appearance. As they lower its spawn chance, they should then increase the duration of hydrated/energized stats.

 

At this moment the need for food or water is pretty well balanced with the amount spawned imo.

[Gobbokirk 546]

  On 9/22/2015 at 1:39 PM, Infiltrator said:

Does it make sense that you drink 5 canteens of water, run for 15-20 minutes, and dehydrate?

 

How about eating 6-8 cans of beans and still being hungry?

Unless you somehow get a bugged character that's not even close to being correct.

Doesn't mean it can't use some adjustments, but unless you sprint around like a maniac you only need to top it off once in a while as soon as you're healthy.

[IgnobleBasterd 161]

  On 9/22/2015 at 2:41 PM, Awc#80 said:

Unless you somehow get a bugged character that's not even close to being correct.

Doesn't mean it can't use some adjustments, but unless you sprint around like a maniac you only need to top it off once in a while as soon as you're healthy.

I think he's correct about the water, but not about the food.

 

Jogging (as opposed to sprinting) for perhaps 5-7 kilometers gets you dehydrated.

[infiltrator 275]

  On 9/22/2015 at 2:41 PM, Awc#80 said:

Unless you somehow get a bugged character that's not even close to being correct.

Doesn't mean it can't use some adjustments, but unless you sprint around like a maniac you only need to top it off once in a while as soon as you're healthy.

 

I was just hydrated (light green) when I took off from mishkino. Sprint to Green Mountain, I have no hidration (wasn't even hot). That's probably less than 15 min.

 

I'm sure it's not an isolated case.

[Dagwood 680]

We shouldn't be able to heal from an AK round to the chest after an hour either, but I don't hear you complaining about that. We shouldn't be cake to hump 60 pounds of gear from one town to another at a sprint. We shouldn't be able to do a lot of the things we get away with in this game.

Being forced to feed and water your mule a couple times a session isn't a big deal, especially with the current abundance of food. If digestion rates were realistic, it would be a nonfactor. It's supposed to be a survival game, and finding sufficient food and water is part of survival. When stamina and all of the other mechanics are included, I'm sure you'll get your wish, but I doubt we'll be tripping over cans of beans around every corner like we are now. Give it time.

[Irish. 4886]

It is currently far too easy to "survive" in regards to food and hydration.. Far too easy.

 

My player is almost never hungry, or complains about needing to drink something once I'm about 15 minutes into a new spawn and from there on out. 

[infiltrator 275]

  On 9/22/2015 at 4:29 PM, Dagwood said:

We shouldn't be able to heal from an AK round to the chest after an hour either, but I don't hear you complaining about that. 

 

So just because you didn't hear me complain about that, or any other thing that this thread does not relate to, you've assumed we disagree on something that is not being discussed.. Am I following this right?

 

Carrying stuff, taking bullets, player speed .. all those things aren't a matter of discussion here. Is that not glaringly obvious? This topic is about having the statuses show up like a chore/annoyance rather than something that would be more of a realistic semblance.

 

Like I said, I am of the opinion that food/water should be more scarce, but in turn you shouldn't be able to sprint after chugging 3 liters of water and being thirsty again.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Infiltrator

[Herkyl Puuro 52]

Running after eating several cans of food and drinking three liters will make you vomit, no matter how healthy and fit you are. In Dayz, it keeps you light green hydrated and energized, which in turn is good for your regeneration. Doesn't sound very convincing as itself, but Dayz is not the first multiplayer game to use similar mechanics, in which healing is based on eating a lot. In some medieval game you had to eat like 30 loaves of bread or whatever to recover from your wounds. There's a reason for this.

 

So, when you're playing a game then it is the game world you're in. Some things can be handled quite realistically, like how it's basically very easy to shoot at someone. Shooting doesn't take a long time and if you're not personally threatened it can be fun and entertaining. Even the weapons can be modeled after their corresponding real life counterparts. But all time consuming things have to be handled differently, with various compromises.

 

In RL if you get shot it takes months, sometimes even years to recover, and even in best modern hospital care you still may die to your wound after years of treatment. You just suffer and finally die, because your system doesn't adjust to changes caused by the bullet that hit you. Dayz is an interesting scenario, because you get shot alot but you can't go to a hospital, and you don't have the equipment & medicine - even if you did you wouldn't know how to heal yourself unless you're a doctor, and if you were a doctor there still wouldn't be electricity for all of them machines and nurses to help you at times when you pass out due to pain or some other malfunction. So, in Dayz you just bandage your wound and then eat & drink massively to perform a magical recovery - even if you're really, really badly hurt with all black & white screen you still can get yourself back in healthy status in about an hour. And meanwhile you can run around all the time and do whatever you please. Again in RL if you have for example a gut wound... eating, drinking and running around would be a very, very bad idea.

 

So there's a huge difference between real and game world. I mean, even if there were hospitals in Chernarus, would anyone stay online many months passing by watching your character being tied to bed? That is exactly what realism means in this case, with the obvious exception that in game world you don't feel physical pain at all.

 

Everyone understands this difference, that's not the point. The point is, why we eat & drink so much in the game is because this is the work we have to do, to heal in game after getting wounded. It's a substitute system for the agonizing and prolonged real life system no one wants to experience in a game. But if there were very little or no repercussions at all, the game wouldn't feel realistic at all. After all in Dayz you have to see a lot of trouble to heal yourself, when compared to many PvP games - for example in Battlefield games you just grab a medikit and youre back in perfect fighting condition in less than a second. In Dayz when you get shot you get punished a lot, actually, part of your gear and loot is ruined, you have to do all this healing by eating.

 

Yeah, it still feels stupid to drink litres and litres of water/pipsi and eat 8 cans of food to get yourself light green healthy. But what can you do?

 

BTW I don't know if there still is the system, that every time you get hit or wounded, even by zombies, you loose part of you max health, which means that you have less total hitpoints so even if your light green healthy it gets easier to be killed. Can someone confirm if it's there or not?

Edited September 22, 2015 by Herkyl Puuro

[infiltrator 275]

  On 9/22/2015 at 7:17 PM, Herkyl Puuro said:

Running after eating several cans of food and drinking three liters will make you vomit, no matter how healthy and fit you are. In Dayz, it keeps you light green hydrated and energized, which in turn is good for your regeneration. Doesn't sound very convincing as itself, but Dayz is not the first multiplayer game to use similar mechanics, in which healing is based on eating a lot. In some medieval game you had to eat like 30 loaves of bread or whatever to recover from your wounds. There's a reason for this.

 

So, when you're playing a game then it is the game world you're in. Some things can be handled quite realistically, like how it's basically very easy to shoot at someone. Shooting doesn't take a long time and if you're not personally threatened it can be fun and entertaining. Even the weapons can be modeled after their corresponding real life counterparts. But all time consuming things have to be handled differently, with various compromises.

 

In RL if you get shot it takes months, sometimes even years to recover, and even in best modern hospital care you still may die to your wound after years of treatment. You just suffer and finally die, because your system doesn't adjust to changes caused by the bullet that hit you. Dayz is an interesting scenario, because you get shto alot but you can't go to a hospital, and you don't have the equipment & medicine - even if you did you wouldn't know how to heal yourself unless if you're not a doctor, and if you were a doctor there still wouldn't be electricity for all of them machines and nurses to help you at times when you pass out due to pain or some other malfunction. So, in Dayz you just bandage your wound and then eat & drink massively to perform a magical recovery - even if you're really, really badly hurt will all black&white screen you still can get yourself back in healthy status in about an hour. And meanwhile you can run around all the time and do whatever you please. Again in RL if you have for example a gut wound eating, drinking and running around would be a very, very bad idea.

 

So there's a huge difference between real and game world. I mean, even if there were hospitals in Chernarus would anyone stay online for many months passing by while your character is tied to bed? That is exactly what realism means in this case, with the obvious exception that in game world you don't feel physical pain at all.

 

Everyone understands this difference, that's not the point. The point is, why we eat & drink so much in the game is because this is the work we have to do, to heal in game after getting wounded. It's a substitute system for the agonizing prolonged real life system no one wants to experience in a game. But if there were very little or no repercussions at all, the game wouldn't feel realistic at all. In Dayz you have to see a lot of trouble to heal yourself, when compared to many PvP games - for example in Battlefield games you just grab a medikit and youre back in perfect fighting condition in less than a second. In Dayz when you get shot you get punished a lot, actually, part of your gear and loot is ruined, you have to do all this healing by eating.

 

Yeah, it still feels stupid to drink litres and litres of water/pipsi and eat 8 cans of food to get yourself light green healthy. But what can you do?

 

BTW I don't know if there still is the system, that every time you get hit or wounded, even by zombies, you loose part of you max health, which means that you have less total hitpoints so even if your light green healthy it gets easier to be killed. Can someone confirm if it's there or not?

 

I don't know why you felt like explaining all that, because obviously dayz IS a game and we're not expecting 1:1 parity with RL - everyone knows that.

 

My argument was that the current system regarding food consumption is not doing justice to NEITHER gameplay NOR realism. Is it realistic to lose most hydration after 15 min? No. Am I asking for a realistic system? Hell no, but something that feels less like a chore would be great.

[Dagwood 680]

  On 9/22/2015 at 4:41 PM, Infiltrator said:

So just because you didn't hear me complain about that, or any other thing that this thread does not relate to, you've assumed we disagree on something that is not being discussed.. Am I following this right?

Carrying stuff, taking bullets, player speed .. all those things aren't a matter of discussion here. Is that not glaringly obvious? This topic is about having the statuses show up like a chore/annoyance rather than something that would be more of a realistic semblance.

Like I said, I am of the opinion that food/water should be more scarce, but in turn you shouldn't be able to sprint after chugging 3 liters of water and being thirsty again.

My apologies for offending you, miss. It was not my intention. The point I was trying (and failed) to make, is that creating an authentic experience is more important, and enjoyable, than making a realistic one. Yes, it is "unrealistic" to become dehydrated in 30 minutes after stuffing yourself with 3 liters of water, but it forces you to make careful considerations about how and when you get that water; just like you would when planning a long, slow trek across a similar distance at real life speed.

TLDR; Authentic experience > than realistic experience.

[mercules 1290]

  On 9/22/2015 at 1:39 PM, Infiltrator said:

We're used to it by now.. and I know the "balancing" is yet to come, but this isn't something that takes any effort (lowering/raising a few variables).

 

Does it make sense that you drink 5 canteens of water, run for 15-20 minutes, and dehydrate?

 

How about eating 6-8 cans of beans and still being hungry?

 

I don't think you should stop every 20 minutes because you're thirsty/hungry. When you drink 3 liters of water and you're all set, I should be hydrated for the next hour even under the harshest conditions. Same goes for food. When you're hungry, even a little bit counts, and by that, I don't mean a bag of rice and 5 cans of spaghetti.

 

Perhaps the food items should be scarcer to compensate, but I think that the rate at hunger/thirst tick by default should definitely be lowered.

 

You need to look up the definition of hyperbole. What you are stating is untrue.

[Weyland Yutani (DayZ) 1159]

  On 9/22/2015 at 1:39 PM, Infiltrator said:

We're used to it by now.. and I know the "balancing" is yet to come, but this isn't something that takes any effort (lowering/raising a few variables).

 

Does it make sense that you drink 5 canteens of water, run for 15-20 minutes, and dehydrate?

 

How about eating 6-8 cans of beans and still being hungry?

 

I don't think you should stop every 20 minutes because you're thirsty/hungry. When you drink 3 liters of water and you're all set, I should be hydrated for the next hour even under the harshest conditions. Same goes for food. When you're hungry, even a little bit counts, and by that, I don't mean a bag of rice and 5 cans of spaghetti.

 

Perhaps the food items should be scarcer to compensate, but I think that the rate at hunger/thirst tick by default should definitely be lowered.

Caveats are necessary. Whats the average life-span in SA? I'm sure this has a lot to do with the health system. If the hunger rate was lowered or if it was anything related to RL, nobody would ever eat food because they'll be long dead before they get hungry.

Edited September 23, 2015 by Weyland Yutani

[FrigginTommyNoble 61]

To me this is the difference between simulation and game. This is a game first, and it needs to put game mechanics before realism. Survival games need constant survival pressure to drive decisions. If we only needed to eat once every 3 hours, we would have to barely find food, ever. It would be super boring to just run around with nothing to do, no pressure forcing you to take risks. That hurts the main driving mechanic of the game: Finding exciting loot. IMO they shouldn't let realism get in the way of the loot hunt.

[infiltrator 275]

  On 9/23/2015 at 12:30 AM, Dagwood said:

My apologies for offending you, miss. It was not my intention. The point I was trying (and failed) to make, is that creating an authentic experience is more important, and enjoyable, than making a realistic one. Yes, it is "unrealistic" to become dehydrated in 30 minutes after stuffing yourself with 3 liters of water, but it forces you to make careful considerations about how and when you get that water; just like you would when planning a long, slow trek across a similar distance at real life speed.

TLDR; Authentic experience > than realistic experience.

 

Nice 3rd grade humor you got there. There's nothing "authentic" about having to restock on water that often, nor there are "careful considerations".. I mean, what could be so meticulous about a simple chore that you just have to do every X minutes.. that's right. Nothing.

[Herkyl Puuro 52]

  On 9/22/2015 at 7:36 PM, Infiltrator said:

I don't know why you felt like explaining all that, because obviously dayz IS a game and we're not expecting 1:1 parity with RL - everyone knows that.

 

My argument was that the current system regarding food consumption is not doing justice to NEITHER gameplay NOR realism. Is it realistic to lose most hydration after 15 min? No. Am I asking for a realistic system? Hell no, but something that feels less like a chore would be great.

 

Hehehe I'm a writer and was in a mood for writing, and besides I wanted to explain precisely why there is so much eating & drinking involved in the game - it serves a purpose. My point is in the question "now that we know all this then how to replace or change this system?" I agree that something less of a chore and maybe more related to treatment or healing than eating could be a good thing, but it would take a lot of focus from other things.

 

One idea would be simply increasing time it takes to heal. If at the moment if player is severely wounded, it takes about an hour for him to go to full healthy status if he keeps energy & hydration on light green all the time. So, if it would take two or three hours, maybe there could be less eating and drinking involved. Another idea would be to make food more filling, that is a player could get the effect of two cans by eating only one can. Then the devs would have to rebalance the loot distribution to have less food on the map, and also inventory system, maybe make can of food take two spaces etc. Of course there are saline bags & blood kits etc. but these are really hard to find currently, and if you're playing lone wolf like I sometimes do, you don't get to use these things so much anyway.

 

While I agree with you that it's silly to keep eating so much, I still don't see this thing so much of a trouble now, and like to see some other issues resolved first - but maybe in time they could do something to this by adding some other ways to healing etc. which could make the game even more rich.

[KenoSkir88 181]

  On 9/23/2015 at 5:44 AM, Infiltrator said:

Nice 3rd grade humor you got there. There's nothing "authentic" about having to restock on water that often, nor there are "careful considerations".. I mean, what could be so meticulous about a simple chore that you just have to do every X minutes.. that's right. Nothing.

 

To be honest you need to take a step back. You have received various points of view so far and have replied with a childish or condescending tone to several, is it surprising they start calling you Miss and responding in the same way?

 

It might seem as easy as pushing a button and flicking a switch, but this opinion goes to show how little you really know about the subject matter. It's cool though you'd be amazed how many people don't think things through properly..

 

An opinion is ok, questions are ok too, rants about game mechanics you dislike and refusal to accept that thing might be any other way than you see them make YOU seem like you are in 3rd grade.

 

Christ someone even wrote you a massive detailed reply and all you could do was mock him.. childishness.

Edited September 23, 2015 by KenoSkir88

[infiltrator 275]

  On 9/23/2015 at 8:10 AM, KenoSkir88 said:

To be honest you need to take a step back. You have received various points of view so far and have replied with a childish or condescending tone to several, is it surprising they start calling you Miss and responding in the same way?

 

It might seem as easy as pushing a button and flicking a switch, but this opinion goes to show how little you really know about the subject matter. It's cool though you'd be amazed how many people don't think things through properly..

 

An opinion is ok, questions are ok too, rants about game mechanics you dislike and refusal to accept that thing might be any other way than you see them make YOU seem like you are in 3rd grade.

 

Christ someone even wrote you a massive detailed reply and all you could do was mock him.. childishness.

 

First, I did not mock the guy who made the massive reply. If I did please outline it. I responded accordingly to the guy talking about off-topic things that I didn't even mention.

 

Adjusting food consumption is a matter of just adjusting a few variables. You don't even have to be a programmer to know that.

 

Thanks for the rant, on your way now since your contribution to the topic at hand is zero.

[KenoSkir88 181]

  On 9/23/2015 at 8:50 AM, Infiltrator said:

First, I did not mock the guy who made the massive reply. If I did please outline it. I responded accordingly to the guy talking about off-topic things that I didn't even mention.

 

Adjusting food consumption is a matter of just adjusting a few variables. You don't even have to be a programmer to know that.

 

Thanks for the rant, on your way now since your contribution to the topic at hand is zero.

 

Yeah that's pretty much what i'm talking about, thanks for the demo mate. The long reply was both relevant and informative, it added much needed context to your discussion. Except it isn't a discussion since you won't want to hear anything except "i agree with you, rawr! food n stuff".

 

There are ramifications to the entire game and other things not linked purely to food bars also involved here. If they reduce the amount you have to eat, then there will be too much food on the ground reducing potential for other spawns since it's left there. This in turn makes other items more rare since so much food is left on floor clogging up loot distribution which means more small changes must be made, these also cause side effects which must be sorted out etc etc etc.. There are MANY other ways the slightest change can effect other systems, but i feel the one example is enough to carry over the message i'm trying to show you.

 

Everything might seem simple when you ignore every piece of information that doesn't fit your own view, but that's not how life works.

 

INFILTRATOR : "Thanks for the rant, on your way now since your contribution to the topic at hand is zero."

 

Pretty sure i've contributed more in my 2 posts than you have in your whole thread.

[Herkyl Puuro 52]

  On 9/23/2015 at 8:50 AM, Infiltrator said:

First, I did not mock the guy who made the massive reply. If I did please outline it. I responded accordingly to the guy talking about off-topic things that I didn't even mention.

 

Adjusting food consumption is a matter of just adjusting a few variables. You don't even have to be a programmer to know that.

 

Thanks for the rant, on your way now since your contribution to the topic at hand is zero.

 

If you know already what's behind everything, how it can be done easily and better already then what's the point of this discussion? Can't you just present what you have in mind to the devs?

 

Also, since I saw the trouble of taking part in this discussion, you in turn can well use my username.

[infiltrator 275]

  On 9/23/2015 at 9:32 AM, Herkyl Puuro said:

If you know already what's behind everything, how it can be done easily and better already then what's the point of this discussion? Can't you just present what you have in mind to the devs?

 

Also, since I saw the trouble of taking part in this discussion, you in turn can well use my username.

 

I do not know what's behind everything. I said I know what's behind the hunger/thirst mechanic and that's just a tick per time unit in various states that can be adjusted easily. What I want is clearly elaborated in the OP - to reduce the tedium of having to drink every 15 minutes to keep hidration, and to a lesser extent like noted by others, hunger.

 

 

  On 9/23/2015 at 9:12 AM, KenoSkir88 said:

There are ramifications to the entire game and other things not linked purely to food bars also involved here. If they reduce the amount you have to eat, then there will be too much food on the ground reducing potential for other spawns since it's left there. This in turn makes other items more rare since so much food is left on floor clogging up loot distribution which means more small changes must be made, these also cause side effects which must be sorted out etc etc etc.. There are MANY other ways the slightest change can effect other systems, but i feel the one example is enough to carry over the message i'm trying to show you.

 

 

I've already said that drop rates might need adjustments, didn't I? The loot distribution is still in its infancy so a slight adjustment won't matter at all (when it comes to water in particular, which isn't gotten from items en mass). What I'm conveying to you is - the system you try to depict seems to be picture perfect and my suggestion will make it crumble like a house of cards. It won't because the servers are already littered with thausands of unused items, like a hundred boots in every tent camp or Library of Alexandria in every police station. Food items on the other hand are sought upon and picked up regularly.

 

Bottom line - the loot system is flawed and won't be affected by slightly altering hunger mechanics.

 

 

  On 9/23/2015 at 9:12 AM, KenoSkir88 said:

Everything might seem simple when you ignore every piece of information that doesn't fit your own view, but that's not how life works.

 

Pretty sure i've contributed more in my 2 posts than you have in your whole thread.

 

You seem to be in dire need of your own advice, so I suggest you just repeat it outloud to yourself. Also, the life comment? Almost choked. Didn't know you're so wise and full of life experiences but I'm thankful you're willing to share your wisdom like that. I'm having an epiphany as we speak.

 

Your contribution? Still non-existent I'm afraid.

Edited September 23, 2015 by Infiltrator

[8bit_Survivor 93]

Try to think about it in terms of distance, not time. As stated we currently run extremely fast which throws off time calculations.

[Dagwood 680]

I totally agree with you rawr! Water and stuff :)

[Gobbokirk 546]

  On 9/22/2015 at 4:13 PM, Infiltrator said:

I was just hydrated (light green) when I took off from mishkino. Sprint to Green Mountain, I have no hidration (wasn't even hot). That's probably less than 15 min.

 

I'm sure it's not an isolated case.

Only light green after 5 canteens? That still sounds like something is off to me.

Going from light green to neutral after a 15min sprint sounds perfectly normal though.

[Bonappetit 117]

In 600h never died of starvation/dehydration tells much of how easy is to find food in the game. Even with that one patch where there was barely any food, but I guess most people didn't like that hardcore abundance.

Edited September 23, 2015 by Miracool