My overall vision for DayZ

[NikoGT 21]

My vision for DayZ 1.0

 

 

Hey guys, this is going to be a very long post, and I hope the devs / community take the time to read the entire thing. I type 110+WPM, so get your reading glasses ready lol.

 

Firstly, I'd like to say that DayZ has been one of the greatest experiences I've ever been a part of in gaming. Half because of what the game is, and half because of what I have always dreamed the game could be. Over the last half a year or so, I've begun to wonder about what DayZ 1.0 will really be. Looking at the game in it's current state, there are a few things that I really hope they address before DayZ gets to 1.0.

 

Here are the main things I wanted to talk about

 

- Customization of the world for server owners -

- Types of Zombies in the game and the role they play -

- Types of base building -

- Soft Skills -

 

Sever Options

My biggest inspiration outside of DayZ, especially in regards to customization has got to be Project Zomboid. The game does so many things well it is hard to list them all. The game has many mechanics that could translate directly into DayZ. Here are a list of features that Zomboid allows you to customize.

- zombie count
- zombie distribution
- water and electricity shutoff
- house alarms
- frequency of locked buildings
- food spoilage
- refrigeration effectiveness
- loot respawn
- zombie respawn
- the temperature
- the rain
- how long farming takes
- how quickly erosion occurs
- how many resources are available in nature
- food, weapon, and overall loot rarity
- length of days,
- Zombie toughness
- Zombie infection type 

All of these options are perfect for creating the zombie apocalypse scenario that you feel you would enjoy the most. However, I realize that individual players in DayZ won't have the ability to customize all of these options because players cannot host their own server on their local machine the way Zomboid allows you to. This means that the developers will be responsible for creating a number value to most of these. My suggestion for this one of two options.

 

One is to simply have difficulty levels. Have settings like Easy Medium Hard, and tweak each of these categories difficulties accordingly. The server owner can then set the difficulty he want, and players can join the server that matches the difficulty they want.

 

The other, and what I believe would be the better option, would be to allow server owners access to all of these options the same way Zomboid allows. This will allow people to create the hardcore survival element in their server, or have a more casual experience, much like 3rd person and 1st person servers are options now. I think allowing more customization from the server owners would be the best way to achieve the best experience for everyone. You would end up with all types of servers this way, and the most options possible for the players.

Zombies & The Context they Provide

There are many zombie survival games out there, and none of them truly accomplish what I one day hope DayZ will. I want to draw to a very popular TV show and inspiration for many of these zombie survival concepts ; The Walking Dead. Think about a place like Woodbury, a walled off town where people feel safe. Why did they build the wall around the town? In games like Rust, H1Z1, and in versions of DayZ mod like Epoch and Origins, building a base was meant to keep other players out. In the lore of The Walking Dead, it was mostly to remain safe from the zombies. Even when they went and made camps in the woods, they made tripwire alarms and had someone on duty watching the perimeter at all times to remain safe from the zombies. One breach in security and the entire town became an unsafe place, and chaos broke out. This would imply that the zombies are a constant threat.

This is what I want out of DayZ. I want the zombie threat to be so real, that you cannot let your guard down from them. I want zombies to be the reason I fortify and area, not to just be a place where I hoard my loot and have base battles with other survivors. Zombies should be trying to find ways into your base, breaking windows and doors, and be applying constant pressure to the survivors. After all, that is what they are surviving from in the first place.

To accomplish this, the number of zombies would have to be drastically increased from what we see in the game now (which i'll get to in the next section),the respawn would have to be fairly consistent, and the location of the zombies should be everywhere. I do believe it should be possible to clear an area of zombies, but I do not believe they should be gone for good. I also believe they need to respawn in the same numbers they were at originally.

So to make this work, I believe zombies should respawn regardless of if you've left an area or not. To stop zombies from spawning right in front of your eyes however, they should respawn outside of your network bubble, but wander to the area you are occupying. A soft aggro to your location basically when they do respawn. This would require you to defend your area from zombies, or they would eventually break and find ways into your town, making it unsafe once again. Basically zombies should always be attempting to re-take areas they have been forced out of if they remain occupied.

 

The Types of Zombies and why It's So Important

 

The biggest flaw in DayZ hands down in my opinion has to be it's theory behind its Zombies. Mainly the # and type it plans on having.

 

I have played pretty much every version of DayZ that has ever been conceived. I have 1500+ hours in standalone, probably about the same in the original DayZ mod, have played Arma 3 breaking point, Origins, Epoch, etc. The one thing that is the most disappointing in all of them is the lack of a zombie threat, and the type of zombie you encounter

 

I have heard Hicks comment on people wanting a larger number of slower moving zombies with a response of "DayZ is not meant to be easy." I believe he is misunderstanding exactly what it is players truly want from the zombies, and how large an impact the type of zombie really has on game-play. This is not a plea to make the game easier. It is in fact a plea to stop making the games zombies so pointless, which would provide a true zombie challenge.

 

People want slower zombies to be everywhere, because of the environment it would create versus the one it currently provides.

 

 

Here is a screenshot of a town with zombies in Project Zomboid.

 

 

These zombies are all slowly moving towards the survivor. Individually, a slow moving shambler zombie is not too big of a threat, but when there are this many, it becomes dangerous to try and take them all out, and literally impossible to do if you don't have the right weapon. You couldn't walk up to a group of 100 zombies and take them out with your fists. It would even be dangerous if you had something as good as an Axe. Even if you had a weapon, you'd need 100+ bullets to take out all of these zombies, and shooting that many times would just draw in more, and give away your position for that much longer. 

 

So is a single, slow moving zombie more difficult to kill? No. But when there are this many, is it not more difficult than fewer fast ones? Does it not require far more in resources or manpower to take care of?

 

Not only that, but look at the context this situation brings to the survivor.

 

What happens if it begins to rain and he is caught in this situation? Now he has a large number of zombies around him, but he also needs to find a safe place to stay dry. It is literally impossible to remove the zombie threat in this amount of time. So he goes into a building. Okay, well once inside the building, he has a limited amount of safe time because zombies are trying to get into his house. How does the survivor choose to deal with this? What if a car drives by, or a gunshot sounds while in this situation, and the zombies all begin to move and more of them arrive? How does he deal with it?

 

Now lets compare this to DayZ. In a town like this in DayZ, we'll say Elektro, you would instead find maybe 5 zombies in this area, and maybe 20-30 spread across the rest of the town. What type of resources would it take to deal with these zombies? You would have to deal with maybe 5 zombies at a time, and you would be forced to deal with them because they are sprinting at you. Walk around with an axe and kill 5 zombies every few minutes, and now the entire town is totally empty. You could even go through the town without dealing with 50% of them if you wanted to sneaking by, and that would require even less resources. You could go around with your fists and deal with that. Now imagine you have a gun! That problem would be taken care of with a few pulls of a trigger, and finding enough ammo to do that wouldn't be hard at all.

 

So yes, was killing each individual zombie more of a challenge? Sure. But what is the overall challenge in the end? You've cleared an entire area with an axe or a  magazine or two of ammo. How hard was that really? And now let's say it starts to rain? Well killing 5-10 zombies would take basically no time at all, so kill em and walk inside. Drama done. Once that's done, what do you care, just run into a building and sit there for a few minutes until it stops. There are no zombies left to beat on your doors and break them down, and you are free to do whatever you want. Or lets say someone shoots a gun off in the distance. At most maybe 10-20 zombies come running through an area? You could easily avoid that and just not deal with it.

 

The DayZ zombie is the easy version of zombies, not the other way around. The less zombies there are,the easier it is to deal with overall, no matter how fast or individually powerful they are. A large hoard of slow moving zombies would literally be impossible to deal with without the correct weapon and resources, whereas the type of zombies in DayZ are both killable and avoidable. They run right at you and don't leave you alone if you're spotted, and there are few enough that you can sneak and avoid them entirely.

 

This type of zombie does not provide the constant  pressure needed to provide context to the rest of the survival aspects of the game. It instead creates slight momentary difficulty, and then extended periods of total relief.

 

Large numbers of slower moving zombies creates constant pressure, and provides context to all other interaction in the game.

 

Base Building / Making Existing Buildings Useful

The next thing I want to talk about is base building. Most games have a core element of base building, but the context makes absolutely no sense. People build entirely new structures out of materials they find, but for what purpose? The world is already full of buildings that have been made. In a survival situation, your energy and time would be extremely valuable. Using that energy to create a new building from scratch, when perfectly good buildings already exist all around you makes no sense whatsoever. Furthermore, the reasoning for building the base in these games is to hoard loot, and not actually to defend yourself from whatever it is you are trying to survive from. In this context it is the zombies since it is a zombie apocalypse.

So my suggestion is to have barricading and reinforcement of existing structures being the main focus on "base building", which I realize the devs have already stated. DayZ has done a wonderful job of making Chernarus. The buildings are almost all enter-able, and the world is large enough with enough buildings that there are plenty of places for people to take over. Allow the fortification of doors and windows, and make it so that zombies naturally attack these structures. This would force you to defend your base from zombies, not just players. Zombies should naturally attack your structures and other existing structures. The doors and windows that exist in the world should be destructible, by both player and zombie. This way you may run across a building at some point that you wish to take over, but its windows and doors have been broken by zombies over time, and would require you to put in some effort in reconstructing this if you wanted to use it as your "base". 

Another concept I would love to see implemented in base building, and other areas as well, is group tasks. I don't believe all tasks should be doable alone. There is already 1 concept that utilizes this and that is blood bags and saline. This is a really cool mechanic that requires you to have help when trying to get something done. I think building of certain structures, like a wooden wall as an example, should only be doable with multiple users. Other tasks, such as carrying large and heavy objects, should require multiple users as well. For example, I heard a long time ago that the developers planned on having all of the furniture be physics based and move-able. Things like couches and large dressers should take a very long time to move solo, and be much quicker if you have someone helping you.

 

This could also be used in temporary barricading of houses when you are on the move from zombies. I imagine running through a town and being over-run by zombies with a friend. We have run out of ammo and one of us is injured. The only safe place to go is inside of a building in front of us to buy us some time. We run inside, lock the door and quickly realize that the zombies will break in soon if we do not do something. We move a couch in front of the door and I cover the windows while my friend tends to his wounds.

 

Those are the kinds of experiences I want out of DayZ. I relate back to Project Zomboid where the threat of zombies is done so well. You will be running outside in a neighborhood, with a group of zombies not far behind. You will be trying to break into a house by looking for an unlocked window so as to not make more noise, and it will start raining out of nowhere. You now realize that you HAVE to get inside soon, or you run the risk of catching a cold. It becomes a do or die situation naturally, and it is a huge adrenaline rush.

 

Currently, the only time DayZ accomplishes this is in its PvP battles with other players. The intensity is palpable in those situations, but when it comes to survival elements, it leaves a lot to be desired. Most of this comes from the fact that the zombie threat is not real, and the houses are just not used properly in DayZ. Getting in shelter should be a temporary safe haven, one that makes you feel secure for a short period of time. Running from zombies, searching for a way into a building, finding it and locking the doors and windows behind you is a very cool feeling in Zomboid, and it simply doesn't exist in DayZ. Zombies even spawn inside of rooms, so they can catch you off guard when clearing a house as well.

 

Soft Skills

 

I know the devs plan on doing this, so I just wanted to have a few suggestions in here that I thought would be really cool. Soft skills, aka things that you get better at over time, provide a real reason and incentive to survive. Currently, the only thing that makes players want to stay alive is the gear they have. This can be a problem because in reality, your life would be the most valuable thing to you. For example, in game when you are being robbed, you are far more likely to try and shoot your way out of a situation because losing your gear is just as bad as dying from your point of view. Losing your gear is the equivalent of death.

 

However, if your character had become quite good at growing food and repairing vehicles over the last month, you would not want to lose those skills you earned over all that time, and you would do whatever it took to keep you alive. This might mean you surrender, try to compromise, or come to an agreement instead of just dying in a blaze of glory.

 

Some tasks might not even be possible until you've unlocked a certain skill level. This would greatly increase your characters value.

 

Some skills I would put in game.

 

- Repair Skill : Better at repairing over time. Vehicle Repair unlocked at higher level

- Farming Skill : Better at farming over time.

- Weapon Skill : Less weapon sway over time, slight decrease in reload times/loading ammo into magazines

- Fitness skill : Characters stamina increases the more you run

 

These could be expanded greatly obviously. I wouldn't even mind if you got better at opening cans of food with a certain utensil the more you did it. For example, using a kitchen knife to open a can of food. You could max out after 5 attempts and be at max skill. Some skills take far less time to master than others. Repairing stuff with duct tape being an easy skill to master, repairing a vehicle part taking much longer, etc.

My ending thoughts

 

I really hope the devs take the time to read this, and I would love to hear what the people in the community think about my thoughts. DayZ has always been a game I thought could be one of the most unique and amazing experiences in gaming history. The world they've created with Chernarus is amazing, and the concept that Rocket and the developers initially came up with was groundbreaking. The community obviously thinks this as well, as it went from being a mod made by only a few people to a full fledged game with tons of community support.

 

Thanks again. Take it easy guys =)

 

[Zboub le météor 250]

Hi !

 

i speed red it, and first thing i want to say : yes project zomboid handle zombie, character management and survival like no other game on this planet. i've spend roughly 100 hours on this game and spawning in the center of westpoint is BRUTAL. if you're a beginner, you'll die in your first day. i was amazed that after having a 3 month old character hurted by a zombie (one second of inattention), i followed my character physical and psychical degradation like if it was one old friend dying. it was a lonely, frightening, painfull and slow death. BUT, when you have understood how the game works, own a fortified house/fort with a garden full of potatoes, there is no need to play the game anymore and no way you can die in the following months (heard they are working on it, i'll make another session soon).

 

one of the major strenght of PZ is it's sloppy old school graphics, allowing LARGE amount of zombie in small area. that is something that seems to me totally infesible with dayZ graphics. the game already struggle to handle 700 zombies on the whole map, there is no way you can put 3000 zombies in a citie like chernogorsk and have a decent framerate. DayZ graphics, players interactions, FPS features, clothes/object combined with PZ zombies, constructions, skills, medical system, elements/food aging, seasons, cooking/fishing/trapping, boredom/stress/fatigue would be the ABSOLUTE survival horror game, no doubt about it. but let's face it, with current technologies, it's just not possible yet.

 

lets wait another 5-10 years and it might be possible  :)

Edited May 31, 2015 by Zboub le météor

[liquidcactus 719]

 there is no way you can put 3000 zombies in a citie like chernogorsk and have a decent framerate. 

lets wait another 5-10 years and it might be possible  :)

wait another 5-10 years ..ouch...       hahaa

 

Apparently the new graphics render should help us out with this no zombies low fram rate thing 

But even then I'm still sooOoo skeptical. I will have to see it to believe it 

[Conrad_The_Comrade 577]

I like pretty much everything in this post, and I did take the time to read everything. Being stuck in a hotel gives you that opportunity.

 

However, I don't want the mass of zombies that walk super slow (I DO want more zombies/infected, however I don't want too huge of masses, and I still want them to run like it's the end of the world at me)

[EddyBalboa 6]

 

My vision for DayZ 1.0

 

1 point oh 2.jpg

 

Hey guys, this is going to be a very long post, and I hope the devs / community take the time to read the entire thing. I type 110+WPM, so get your reading glasses ready lol.

 

Firstly, I'd like to say that DayZ has been one of the greatest experiences I've ever been a part of in gaming. Half because of what the game is, and half because of what I have always dreamed the game could be. Over the last half a year or so, I've begun to wonder about what DayZ 1.0 will really be. Looking at the game in it's current state, there are a few things that I really hope they address before DayZ gets to 1.0.

 

Here are the main things I wanted to talk about

 

- Customization of the world for server owners -

- Types of Zombies in the game and the role they play -

- Types of base building -

- Soft Skills -

 

Sever Options

My biggest inspiration outside of DayZ, especially in regards to customization has got to be Project Zomboid. The game does so many things well it is hard to list them all. The game has many mechanics that could translate directly into DayZ. Here are a list of features that Zomboid allows you to customize.

- zombie count

- zombie distribution

- water and electricity shutoff

- house alarms

- frequency of locked buildings

- food spoilage

- refrigeration effectiveness

- loot respawn

- zombie respawn

- the temperature

- the rain

- how long farming takes

- how quickly erosion occurs

- how many resources are available in nature

- food, weapon, and overall loot rarity

- length of days,

- Zombie toughness

- Zombie infection type 

All of these options are perfect for creating the zombie apocalypse scenario that you feel you would enjoy the most. However, I realize that individual players in DayZ won't have the ability to customize all of these options because players cannot host their own server on their local machine the way Zomboid allows you to. This means that the developers will be responsible for creating a number value to most of these. My suggestion for this one of two options.

 

One is to simply have difficulty levels. Have settings like Easy Medium Hard, and tweak each of these categories difficulties accordingly. The server owner can then set the difficulty he want, and players can join the server that matches the difficulty they want.

 

The other, and what I believe would be the better option, would be to allow server owners access to all of these options the same way Zomboid allows. This will allow people to create the hardcore survival element in their server, or have a more casual experience, much like 3rd person and 1st person servers are options now. I think allowing more customization from the server owners would be the best way to achieve the best experience for everyone. You would end up with all types of servers this way, and the most options possible for the players.

Zombies & The Context they Provide

There are many zombie survival games out there, and none of them truly accomplish what I one day hope DayZ will. I want to draw to a very popular TV show and inspiration for many of these zombie survival concepts ; The Walking Dead. Think about a place like Woodbury, a walled off town where people feel safe. Why did they build the wall around the town? In games like Rust, H1Z1, and in versions of DayZ mod like Epoch and Origins, building a base was meant to keep other players out. In the lore of The Walking Dead, it was mostly to remain safe from the zombies. Even when they went and made camps in the woods, they made tripwire alarms and had someone on duty watching the perimeter at all times to remain safe from the zombies. One breach in security and the entire town became an unsafe place, and chaos broke out. This would imply that the zombies are a constant threat.

This is what I want out of DayZ. I want the zombie threat to be so real, that you cannot let your guard down from them. I want zombies to be the reason I fortify and area, not to just be a place where I hoard my loot and have base battles with other survivors. Zombies should be trying to find ways into your base, breaking windows and doors, and be applying constant pressure to the survivors. After all, that is what they are surviving from in the first place.

To accomplish this, the number of zombies would have to be drastically increased from what we see in the game now (which i'll get to in the next section),the respawn would have to be fairly consistent, and the location of the zombies should be everywhere. I do believe it should be possible to clear an area of zombies, but I do not believe they should be gone for good. I also believe they need to respawn in the same numbers they were at originally.

So to make this work, I believe zombies should respawn regardless of if you've left an area or not. To stop zombies from spawning right in front of your eyes however, they should respawn outside of your network bubble, but wander to the area you are occupying. A soft aggro to your location basically when they do respawn. This would require you to defend your area from zombies, or they would eventually break and find ways into your town, making it unsafe once again. Basically zombies should always be attempting to re-take areas they have been forced out of if they remain occupied.

 

The Types of Zombies and why It's So Important

 

The biggest flaw in DayZ hands down in my opinion has to be it's theory behind its Zombies. Mainly the # and type it plans on having.

 

I have played pretty much every version of DayZ that has ever been conceived. I have 1500+ hours in standalone, probably about the same in the original DayZ mod, have played Arma 3 breaking point, Origins, Epoch, etc. The one thing that is the most disappointing in all of them is the lack of a zombie threat, and the type of zombie you encounter

 

I have heard Hicks comment on people wanting a larger number of slower moving zombies with a response of "DayZ is not meant to be easy." I believe he is misunderstanding exactly what it is players truly want from the zombies, and how large an impact the type of zombie really has on game-play. This is not a plea to make the game easier. It is in fact a plea to stop making the games zombies so pointless, which would provide a true zombie challenge.

 

People want slower zombies to be everywhere, because of the environment it would create versus the one it currently provides.

 

 

Here is a screenshot of a town with zombies in Project Zomboid.

 

zombos.jpg

 

These zombies are all slowly moving towards the survivor. Individually, a slow moving shambler zombie is not too big of a threat, but when there are this many, it becomes dangerous to try and take them all out, and literally impossible to do if you don't have the right weapon. You couldn't walk up to a group of 100 zombies and take them out with your fists. It would even be dangerous if you had something as good as an Axe. Even if you had a weapon, you'd need 100+ bullets to take out all of these zombies, and shooting that many times would just draw in more, and give away your position for that much longer. 

 

So is a single, slow moving zombie more difficult to kill? No. But when there are this many, is it not more difficult than fewer fast ones? Does it not require far more in resources or manpower to take care of?

 

Not only that, but look at the context this situation brings to the survivor.

 

What happens if it begins to rain and he is caught in this situation? Now he has a large number of zombies around him, but he also needs to find a safe place to stay dry. It is literally impossible to remove the zombie threat in this amount of time. So he goes into a building. Okay, well once inside the building, he has a limited amount of safe time because zombies are trying to get into his house. How does the survivor choose to deal with this? What if a car drives by, or a gunshot sounds while in this situation, and the zombies all begin to move and more of them arrive? How does he deal with it?

 

Now lets compare this to DayZ. In a town like this in DayZ, we'll say Elektro, you would instead find maybe 5 zombies in this area, and maybe 20-30 spread across the rest of the town. What type of resources would it take to deal with these zombies? You would have to deal with maybe 5 zombies at a time, and you would be forced to deal with them because they are sprinting at you. Walk around with an axe and kill 5 zombies every few minutes, and now the entire town is totally empty. You could even go through the town without dealing with 50% of them if you wanted to sneaking by, and that would require even less resources. You could go around with your fists and deal with that. Now imagine you have a gun! That problem would be taken care of with a few pulls of a trigger, and finding enough ammo to do that wouldn't be hard at all.

 

So yes, was killing each individual zombie more of a challenge? Sure. But what is the overall challenge in the end? You've cleared an entire area with an axe or a  magazine or two of ammo. How hard was that really? And now let's say it starts to rain? Well killing 5-10 zombies would take basically no time at all, so kill em and walk inside. Drama done. Once that's done, what do you care, just run into a building and sit there for a few minutes until it stops. There are no zombies left to beat on your doors and break them down, and you are free to do whatever you want. Or lets say someone shoots a gun off in the distance. At most maybe 10-20 zombies come running through an area? You could easily avoid that and just not deal with it.

 

The DayZ zombie is the easy version of zombies, not the other way around. The less zombies there are,the easier it is to deal with overall, no matter how fast or individually powerful they are. A large hoard of slow moving zombies would literally be impossible to deal with without the correct weapon and resources, whereas the type of zombies in DayZ are both killable and avoidable. They run right at you and don't leave you alone if you're spotted, and there are few enough that you can sneak and avoid them entirely.

 

This type of zombie does not provide the constant  pressure needed to provide context to the rest of the survival aspects of the game. It instead creates slight momentary difficulty, and then extended periods of total relief.

 

Large numbers of slower moving zombies creates constant pressure, and provides context to all other interaction in the game.

 

Base Building / Making Existing Buildings Useful

The next thing I want to talk about is base building. Most games have a core element of base building, but the context makes absolutely no sense. People build entirely new structures out of materials they find, but for what purpose? The world is already full of buildings that have been made. In a survival situation, your energy and time would be extremely valuable. Using that energy to create a new building from scratch, when perfectly good buildings already exist all around you makes no sense whatsoever. Furthermore, the reasoning for building the base in these games is to hoard loot, and not actually to defend yourself from whatever it is you are trying to survive from. In this context it is the zombies since it is a zombie apocalypse.

So my suggestion is to have barricading and reinforcement of existing structures being the main focus on "base building", which I realize the devs have already stated. DayZ has done a wonderful job of making Chernarus. The buildings are almost all enter-able, and the world is large enough with enough buildings that there are plenty of places for people to take over. Allow the fortification of doors and windows, and make it so that zombies naturally attack these structures. This would force you to defend your base from zombies, not just players. Zombies should naturally attack your structures and other existing structures. The doors and windows that exist in the world should be destructible, by both player and zombie. This way you may run across a building at some point that you wish to take over, but its windows and doors have been broken by zombies over time, and would require you to put in some effort in reconstructing this if you wanted to use it as your "base". 

Another concept I would love to see implemented in base building, and other areas as well, is group tasks. I don't believe all tasks should be doable alone. There is already 1 concept that utilizes this and that is blood bags and saline. This is a really cool mechanic that requires you to have help when trying to get something done. I think building of certain structures, like a wooden wall as an example, should only be doable with multiple users. Other tasks, such as carrying large and heavy objects, should require multiple users as well. For example, I heard a long time ago that the developers planned on having all of the furniture be physics based and move-able. Things like couches and large dressers should take a very long time to move solo, and be much quicker if you have someone helping you.

 

This could also be used in temporary barricading of houses when you are on the move from zombies. I imagine running through a town and being over-run by zombies with a friend. We have run out of ammo and one of us is injured. The only safe place to go is inside of a building in front of us to buy us some time. We run inside, lock the door and quickly realize that the zombies will break in soon if we do not do something. We move a couch in front of the door and I cover the windows while my friend tends to his wounds.

 

Those are the kinds of experiences I want out of DayZ. I relate back to Project Zomboid where the threat of zombies is done so well. You will be running outside in a neighborhood, with a group of zombies not far behind. You will be trying to break into a house by looking for an unlocked window so as to not make more noise, and it will start raining out of nowhere. You now realize that you HAVE to get inside soon, or you run the risk of catching a cold. It becomes a do or die situation naturally, and it is a huge adrenaline rush.

 

Currently, the only time DayZ accomplishes this is in its PvP battles with other players. The intensity is palpable in those situations, but when it comes to survival elements, it leaves a lot to be desired. Most of this comes from the fact that the zombie threat is not real, and the houses are just not used properly in DayZ. Getting in shelter should be a temporary safe haven, one that makes you feel secure for a short period of time. Running from zombies, searching for a way into a building, finding it and locking the doors and windows behind you is a very cool feeling in Zomboid, and it simply doesn't exist in DayZ. Zombies even spawn inside of rooms, so they can catch you off guard when clearing a house as well.

 

Soft Skills

 

I know the devs plan on doing this, so I just wanted to have a few suggestions in here that I thought would be really cool. Soft skills, aka things that you get better at over time, provide a real reason and incentive to survive. Currently, the only thing that makes players want to stay alive is the gear they have. This can be a problem because in reality, your life would be the most valuable thing to you. For example, in game when you are being robbed, you are far more likely to try and shoot your way out of a situation because losing your gear is just as bad as dying from your point of view. Losing your gear is the equivalent of death.

 

However, if your character had become quite good at growing food and repairing vehicles over the last month, you would not want to lose those skills you earned over all that time, and you would do whatever it took to keep you alive. This might mean you surrender, try to compromise, or come to an agreement instead of just dying in a blaze of glory.

 

Some tasks might not even be possible until you've unlocked a certain skill level. This would greatly increase your characters value.

 

Some skills I would put in game.

 

- Repair Skill : Better at repairing over time. Vehicle Repair unlocked at higher level

- Farming Skill : Better at farming over time.

- Weapon Skill : Less weapon sway over time, slight decrease in reload times/loading ammo into magazines

- Fitness skill : Characters stamina increases the more you run

 

These could be expanded greatly obviously. I wouldn't even mind if you got better at opening cans of food with a certain utensil the more you did it. For example, using a kitchen knife to open a can of food. You could max out after 5 attempts and be at max skill. Some skills take far less time to master than others. Repairing stuff with duct tape being an easy skill to master, repairing a vehicle part taking much longer, etc.

My ending thoughts

 

I really hope the devs take the time to read this, and I would love to hear what the people in the community think about my thoughts. DayZ has always been a game I thought could be one of the most unique and amazing experiences in gaming history. The world they've created with Chernarus is amazing, and the concept that Rocket and the developers initially came up with was groundbreaking. The community obviously thinks this as well, as it went from being a mod made by only a few people to a full fledged game with tons of community support.

 

Thanks again. Take it easy guys =)

 

lol bye.jpg

 

tl;dr

[Parazight 1599]

Hey guys, this is going to be a very long post, and I hope the devs / community take the time to read the entire thing. I type 110+WPM,

You lost me after this sentence.  Professional typists only put out about 65-75 WPM.  And considering the formatting of your post, makes me highly suspect of anything after that.

[therandomredstone 432]

-snipsnipsnipsnipsnip-

 

I want to go over a few things you discussed in your post.

 

First of all, they are Infected People. Not Zombies.

 

So, you feel that after killing a few Infected here and there, they should respawn and basically go back to the location you originally killed them at. This will not be necessary, as I will get to my second comment.

 

Have you been reading the DevTracker? DayZIntel? What about YouTube? There will be no Infected in the next update. The reason why, was because the developers increased the number of Infected SO much that the servers were pretty much unplayable. My guess is they are going to either re-implement the Infected with the new render, because the render can run more things with less performance. Thus adding much more space for more Infected. Or just change a few 0s and 1s to fix it. 

    Watch a few videos from .56 in Experimental. airfields if you're lucky will have 30 of those little buggers on one half.. If you shoot a gun, they go running to the area but they don't know where you are. So if you must, shoot one and haul ass outta there, because more are on their way.  

  Now for base building, don't worry, there are plenty of things you've talked about that the devs have been thinking about for quite some time. No sweat.

   I must give you props for the Soft Skills. Even though there could be plenty more of the skills, the few that you have named by themselves would make all the difference to players.

 

 I think I've gone over all I had to go over.. Cheers!

[NikoGT 21]

You lost me after this sentence.  Professional typists only put out about 65-75 WPM.  And considering the formatting of your post, makes me highly suspect of anything after that.

 

Here is a typing test is just took - http://i.imgur.com/NmMrJoj.jpg

 

My formatting sucks lol, I just typed out what I had on my mind, didn't really spend any time formatting it. Basically just spitballed this.

[NikoGT 21]

I want to go over a few things you discussed in your post.

 

First of all, they are Infected People. Not Zombies.

 

So, you feel that after killing a few Infected here and there, they should respawn and basically go back to the location you originally killed them at. This will not be necessary, as I will get to my second comment.

 

Have you been reading the DevTracker? DayZIntel? What about YouTube? There will be no Infected in the next update. The reason why, was because the developers increased the number of Infected SO much that the servers were pretty much unplayable. My guess is they are going to either re-implement the Infected with the new render, because the render can run more things with less performance. Thus adding much more space for more Infected. Or just change a few 0s and 1s to fix it. 

    Watch a few videos from .56 in Experimental. airfields if you're lucky will have 30 of those little buggers on one half.. If you shoot a gun, they go running to the area but they don't know where you are. So if you must, shoot one and haul ass outta there, because more are on their way.  

  Now for base building, don't worry, there are plenty of things you've talked about that the devs have been thinking about for quite some time. No sweat.

   I must give you props for the Soft Skills. Even though there could be plenty more of the skills, the few that you have named by themselves would make all the difference to players.

 

 I think I've gone over all I had to go over.. Cheers!

 

Thanks for your feedback, I really appreciate you taking the time to read it, I know it was a mouthful lol.

 

Yea I have seen some of the footage of the zombies and played a bit of .56 . The numbers were certainly more promising than they ever had been in standalone, but yea it did make the desync very unbearable. Keep in mind this is my vision for 1.0, I fully understand that these things aren't doable with the snap of a finger. These are my long term hopes for the game.

 

The one thing about the zombies that I want to point out is that they move too quickly for my liking. The type of zombie movement is important to how you end up dealing with them in the long run. I know the devs have spoken about varying speeds of zombies, and I really hope they do this.

 

One thing I forgot to mention which you just reminded me of is that I also don't like how the zombies only have 2 interest levels. Zombies either pay no attention to you at all, or begin sprinting at you full tilt. I think differing levels of aggro translating to different movement speeds of the zombies would be far more appropriate.

 

I would break this into 3 indicating factors

 

Sight - how well the zombie sees you

Sound - how clearly the zombie hears you

Distance - how far between you and the zombie you are

 

If all 3 of these factors are at 100%, then the zombie should be moving at it's fullest speed towards you. If the zombie doesn't see you, but hears you and knows your nearby, it should move at half speed towards you. If you are really far away from a zombie, but you are in it's line of sight, it should be moving very slowly in your direction to figure out what's going on. This would mean the zombies have 4 movement speeds - Uninterested, curious, tracking mode, and attack mode.

 

Things like gunshots could be a high priority, and might immediately move the zombie aggro up to tracking mode no matter the distance. I also think if a zombie is only at curious, it shouldn't be following you, but instead moving to the point it last heard something. This way it isn't just blindly following you through objects, but instead moving to the last place of interest.

 

I think this alone would really improve the interaction between zombie and player.

 

And yeah soft skills I think are hugely important to making people value their lives over their gear. There are tons of things in game it could apply to as well. I can't wait to see what the devs have planned for it.

[Parazight 1599]

My formatting sucks lol, I just typed out what I had on my mind, didn't really spend any time formatting it. Basically just spitballed this.

Okay, I read your post.  Please refrain from centering your text.

 

Project Zomboid:  It didn't work out.  Maybe they had some good ideas, but it just doesn't jive with what Dayz attempts to do.  Realize the game architecture.  Having hundreds of infected around a player is probably a massive drain on performance.  It's an open world sandbox of enormous size.  All those zeds communicating with every player on the server multiplied by all the players on the server.  Too much data. 

 

Zombies:  The infected are part of the game's scenery, so to speak.   They're there to enhance a player's experience, not to define the game.  They won't be balanced.  DayZ, the 'anti-game', isn't concerned with balance.  Instead, brutal authenticity (not realism) is the drive here.   That all said, advanced infected AI is being worked on right now.  They DO have varying levels of aggro.

 

The thing is, players will adapt and infected won't be an issue.  Infected AI will never be able to outsmart a human brain.  There is no PVE in the history of mmo gaming that will provide a serious challenge to single player content.  I challenge anyone to name one.  I've made this claim multiple times before and have never seen evidence otherwise.  I've played nearly all of them.  The only real threat is other players.  Even if the devs somehow implement every one of your suggestions, and then make it twice as hard, infected will never be the primary threat.  Players will learn how to survive the environment.  It's other players that you will never be able to totally adapt to.

 

Base Building:  You have some good points regarding base building.  I agree, it's silly to build a structure when there are tons of abandoned ones across the map.  Base building will be in the game, yes, but will evolve with modding.

 

Soft Skills:  This topic has been brought up before.  Personally, I'm against it.  But not against other players wanting it.  Seems extraneous content to me.  I enjoy permadeath a lot.  Implementing soft skills and having to unlock skills is a move away from permadeath, imo.  Also, seems like something that would be in a mod.

 

I've seen a lot of companies try to ride the dayz coat-tails.  There are a lot of zombies games coming out.  The thing is, Dayz isn't really about the infected (zombies).  It's about survival in a sandbox.

[agouti 105]

You lost me after this sentence.  Professional typists only put out about 65-75 WPM.  And considering the formatting of your post, makes me highly suspect of anything after that.

Really? I should be a typist then. Or maybe anyone that played everquest (a game requiring much typing and tactics, before the widespread use of mic coms).

[agouti 105]

The thing is, players will adapt and infected won't be an issue.  Infected AI will never be able to outsmart a human brain.  There is no PVE in the history of mmo gaming that will provide a serious challenge to single player content.  I challenge anyone to name one.  I've made this claim multiple times before and have never seen evidence otherwise.  I've played nearly all of them.  The only real threat is other players.  Even if the devs somehow implement every one of your suggestions, and then make it twice as hard, infected will never be the primary threat.  Players will learn how to survive the environment.  It's other players that you will never be able to totally adapt to.

 

 

Aha! Also everquest. In the east commonlands, sometimes, rarely, a griffin would show up. And then proceed to destroy everything.

Edited May 31, 2015 by agouti

[Parazight 1599]

Aha! Also everquest. In the east commonlands, sometimes, rarely, a griffin would show up. And then proceed to destroy everything.

Played that too.  Trivial NPC.  Avoidable.  Also note I said single player content, like in dayz.  I'm not talking about NPCs that require teams.

[agouti 105]

Yeah, I had no idea what you meant by that. Single player content? In an mmo? Is that like offline mode?

 

Also, I didn't mention any other bosses, because you have to seek them out. The griffin just appears. He was meant to be a team effort? I spent my time in qeynos with the gnolls or that other continent on the east that was all old and foresty with the blue orcs. Or kunark. Had no idea he was supposed to be a group thing. The only time I was ever in ec was to go to ro or to buy/sell something.

 

 

Also, I just saw a griffin do the exact same thing in axe cop. Hilarious.

[NikoGT 21]

Project Zomboid:  It didn't work out.  Maybe they had some good ideas, but it just doesn't jive with what Dayz attempts to do. 

 

Zombies:  The infected are part of the game's scenery, so to speak.   They're there to enhance a player's experience, not to define the game.  They won't be balanced.  DayZ, the 'anti-game', isn't concerned with balance.  Instead, brutal authenticity (not realism) is the drive here.   That all said, advanced infected AI is being worked on right now.  They DO have varying levels of aggro.

 

The thing is, players will adapt and infected won't be an issue.  Infected AI will never be able to outsmart a human brain.  There is no PVE in the history of mmo gaming that will provide a serious challenge to single player content.  I challenge anyone to name one.  I've made this claim multiple times before and have never seen evidence otherwise.  I've played nearly all of them.  The only real threat is other players.  Even if the devs somehow implement every one of your suggestions, and then make it twice as hard, infected will never be the primary threat.  Players will learn how to survive the environment.  It's other players that you will never be able to totally adapt to.

 

 

I've seen a lot of companies try to ride the dayz coat-tails.  There are a lot of zombies games coming out.  The thing is, Dayz isn't really about the infected (zombies).  It's about survival in a sandbox.

 

Played that too.  Trivial NPC.  Avoidable.  Also note I said single player content, like in dayz.  I'm not talking about NPCs that require teams.

 

Ok so a few counter points I would like to make. You say that in DayZ the infected are just scenery, put in place to enhance the player experience. You also say they are not meant to be balanced, but to provide brutal authenticity (not realism).

 

Firstly, this is a infected apocalypse. You say DayZ is about survival in a sandbox, from what exactly? By definition, the infected have caused all of society to break down to the point where entire countries, their armies, and all of their citizens were unable to stop the infected from taking over the world. As a baseline standard then, it should not be possible for 1 person to run through the rest of the world, eliminating all of the infected. That authenticity you talk about is gone if you are not under constant fear of the infected. One man and an axe are currently capable of destroying the entire infected plague in DayZ, and that should not even be close to remotely possible. There wouldn't have been an apocalypse in the first place if it were.

 

Which brings me to my next point. You say that you are only talking about single player content, not NPC's that require teams when it comes to difficulty. Why? DayZ is not a single player game. Why shouldn't it require a group of people to retake a town that has been infested by infected? Why is it possible that 1 lone person can just go and do whatever he pleases in the apocalypse? It is my mindset that teamwork should be almost required to have hopes of entering a large city or military base.

 

Your next point is that no game has ever created an enemy threat in PvE that truly challenged a player. The argument "It hasn't been done before so therefor it is impossible and shouldn't be tried" is invalid. All of human achievement proves that to be false. It was seen as impossible to climb mount Everest until someone did it. Second, they absolutely have made AI difficult enough that people cannot defeat them. Can you do a dungeon in WoW by yourself? Do people never fail when going up against AI in any video game? Why are there difficulty levels in single player games if people could beat all of them?

 

You also say that the infected will never present more of a challenge than other humans, which is true. Nobody who makes the argument for more difficult and larger numbers of infected believes they would. That does not pertain to the subject, because my argument was that infected need to make far more impact on player decisions and provide more of a challenge than they do currently, not that they need to be smarter than people. You even said yourself that the zombies are there to enhance the player experience, and I agree with that. My suggestion is how I believe zombies could be made to do exactly that.

 

You say that no matter how difficult the zombies and surviving is made, players will adapt and learn how to do it. So are you saying why make the game more difficult if players will just learn how to beat it anyways? Are you saying that the games AI should be unbeatable, and if not then no effort should be put into making the game more difficult?

 

I think we have a very clear difference in opinion on what an infected apocalypse mmo could ideally be in the end. You say I should look at the games architecture and base my opinion from there, but I disagree. I understand there are literal limitations, but the whole point of starting over to make DayZ standalone was to make the perfect engine for everything a game like DayZ needs. A very large number of proper infected should be one of the highest priorities in that plan. Without that, in my opinion, the game lacks the context it needs to truly be a Infected Survival MMO. That is why I am so focused on what I believe could be done to the infected to make DayZ an amazing experience.

Edited June 1, 2015 by NikoGT

[Parazight 1599]

Firstly, this is a infected apocalypse. You say DayZ is about survival in a sandbox, from what exactly? By definition, the infected have caused all of society to break down to the point where entire countries, their armies, and all of their citizens were unable to stop the infected from taking over the world. As a baseline standard then, it should not be possible for 1 person to run through the rest of the world, eliminating all of the infected. 

---

Your next point is that no game has ever created an enemy threat in PvE that truly challenged a player. The argument "It hasn't been done before so therefor it is impossible and shouldn't be tried" is invalid. All of human achievement proves that to be false. It was seen as impossible to climb mount Everest until someone did it. Second, they absolutely have made AI difficult enough that people cannot defeat them. Can you do a dungeon in WoW by yourself? Do people never fail when going up against AI in any video game? Why are there difficulty levels in single player games if people could beat all of them?

---

You say that no matter how difficult the zombies and surviving is made, players will adapt and learn how to do it. So are you saying why make the game more difficult if players will just learn how to beat it anyways? Are you saying that the games AI should be unbeatable, and if not then no effort should be put into making the game more difficult?

1.)  Woah, hold on.  Let's make one thing clear.  I don't give two fucks about killing infected.  That's a terrible assumption to make.  I only need to survive.  Not dying wins teh prize every time, not 'seeing how many infected you can kill'.  In fact, I prefer to let them live and serve as lookouts for unfriendly players to deal with.

 

2.) I said single player content. not any pve content.  There's a very clear difference.  I've raided on progression teams for years and years. Any current progression content is not beatable by one person. No question about that.  See, the problem is that the game has to be playable alone.  If the game is unplayable when you are going solo then it's poor design.  You can't log in and play and go up against an impossibly hard infected.  That part is obvious.  Since it's a huge sandbox, you have to consider the limitations.  It's impossible to tune, in this sort of sandbox, the infected so that it's balanced verses one player, but more difficult when there's multiple players.  Additionally, multiple players will always have an easier time, exponentially, with AI that has to be tuned for single player content.  Live human players will always dominate AI under these circumstances.

 

3.) I'm not saying it needs to be harder, or easier, or anything.  It just needs to be there to enhance multiple player interaction.  Infected are no more important than a good crafting system, or ballistics physics.  Being able to dye my leather clothing is just as important to me as interacting with zeds.  There's no need to try to make the game harder.  Players, with tons of ways to kill other players, in a huge sandbox, provides it's own difficult content by nature of design.

 

Players will adapt to infected and beat them easily and there's nothing wrong with that.  Zeds will be that amazing experience that you seek, but not the defining facet to this game.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Parazight

[Cushaway 3]

"but not the defining facet to this game."

 

Then it (DayZ) shouldn't claim to be the apocalypse game that it claims to be. I love DayZ, but at this point, and even with the roadmap... It doesn't look to ever become the game that NikoGT envisions... same goes for me.

 

And that is why I've put my attention into other games that will try that.

Edited June 9, 2015 by Cushaway

[hekeetsu 86]

Ahem... A lot of slowly moving zombies. Why not just a lot of fast DayZ zombies?