I hate DayZ but I love it so much...

[doctorbadsign 645]

Well, this is certainly true in many cases. Of course, it makes no sense to put too much effort into fixing a UI that is essentialy a placeholder.

 

However, i often read general claims like "Bug fixing is for beta", and that simply isn't true. If you're interested:

 

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000043.html (see point 5 "do you fix bugs")

http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/198696/keeping-agile-with-zero-bug-defect-policy

 

Beta is meant for polish - doing some large-scale testing to find and fix some remaining bugs, squeeze out 10% more performance, or make some minor changes based on user feedback. The game/software is NOT supposed to be severly bugged and unplayable at the beginning of beta, or even during alpha. Piling broken features on top of broken features is generally a really bad idea. At some point, the code will be such a mess that it becomes really difficult to fix bugs or even identify what exactly the problem is.

 

 

Personally, my concern is simply that DayZ won't be "done" anytime soon, or at all. I'm afraid that the Bohemia bosses might not be willing to put the required resources into DayZ for some reason, and that this won't change unless there is more pressure on them. And considering that DayZ earned them almost 100 million $ already, there should be more than enough money to put into the game.

 

 

I agree and to be fair, I've actually noticed an increase in performance and some bugs have been ironed out. Obviously there are still some issues, but I don't see any reason to believe these to be insurmountable.

 

I suspect that performance will improve once the parts of the engine that are to be replaced have been replaced. Support for newer versions of Direct X for example is bound to help.

 

If you are dubious about whether DayZ will ever get done, there's not much I can say. I suppose it is a legitimate concern, although I see no reason to believe it. Really that is the risk of the whole Early Access program, if you buy into it you endorse that and bear the risk. All I can say is don't get early access games in future if this is an issue for you. 

[JPWiser 251]

I'm a chef by trade, video gamer by hobby. No where does this touch even close to game or software development.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong pls but I don't see the sense in optimizing performance before all content is added cause if you add more content isn't it going to have an effect on the performance?

Makes sense to me /shrug

[EpicTickles 6]

Many opinions and I appreciate all of them, but I will tell you my personal one: if the new engine doesn't do some kind of miracle, this game has no chance to go in a traditional beta until the end of the year(if at all). 

I love the game don't get me wrong, but the reference to the poor project management that I've made was there for a reason! On a game that can "barely breathe" because of poor optimization(the engine), you don't start loading the map even more with apartment blocks and huge cities! Most survival fans would prefer a rugged countryside with small but many villages rather than apartment blocks. It is not that they are not nice, but the engine is just too overloaded for such things.

Most of the gamers appreciate much more a stable game with decent fps over an unstable one with better graphics and much more content. Just because WITHOUT PERFORMANCE YOU CANNOT ENJOY THE CONTENT!

[EpicTickles 6]

I'm a chef by trade, video gamer by hobby. No where does this touch even close to game or software development.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong pls but I don't see the sense in optimizing performance before all content is added cause if you add more content isn't it going to have an effect on the performance?

Makes sense to me /shrug

 

In traditional development cycles it works fine. The problem with the dayz project is that if they don't keep a balance between the performance and content, it will be almost impossible to get performance in the end without sacrificing content. I hope it will not be the case, but bear this in mind and contradict me afterwards if it will not be like this: the new engine is the hope that still keeps many people thinking this still has a chance. If it will not make a miracle, this game will never reach release stage!

[SMoss 2101]

You are partially right. In beta, the game is almost complete, the development team only dealing with the minor bugs remaining.

The performance issues present currently in dayz are critical and are definitely not to be left for beta in a traditional project.

What most of you don't see is that the "alpha" term is used in this situation as a cover-up for the extremely poor decision of relying on arma 2 engine for such a complex game.

 

Why do you think Dean left? :)))

 

But I think I am explaining things to fan-kids, so I will stop here... You'll learn when you grow, what I mean

 

I'll throw in my two cents as well on the subject. I'd say that for beta, the game should be feature complete - not "almost complete", there's a huge difference. During the beta phase of development, crashes, functionality loss, and performance issues for example may well still pop up. Bugs such as these would not at all be considered to be "minor bugs".

 

Additionally, please try and keep the topic thread factual when stating claims. I don't see the direct connection between Dean leaving as a result of DayZ having an Alpha label which in turn is a result of the supposed cover-up that is the decision of starting the project by using the RV engine. I really don't see the red thread in that claim, and unfortunately it has the potential to derail the entire discussion. Then again, I'm just one of those fan-kids, what do I know :)

[Accolyte 1727]

 

You are partially right. In beta, the game is almost complete, the development team only dealing with the minor bugs remaining.

The performance issues present currently in dayz are critical and are definitely not to be left for beta in a traditional project.

 

No, he's completely right. 

Are these critical performance issues making the game unplayable? Unplayable as in the game doesn't start, becomes unresponsive or crashes, not 'zomg my fps be low'. No, ergo the issues are not critical from development standpoint.

 

If you ARE experiencing actual critical issues, as in the game doesn't start, becomes unresponsive or crashes, go to feedback.dayzgame.com. And they will help you out. I would know ;)

 

 

I just think this far into alpha, and any modern game on PC, alpha or not, should be running at minimum 60 fps. It really isn't too much to demand in this day and age with the technology available.

 

You can think that, but that doesn't make it so.

 

 

Let's keep the usage of words 'fankids' and similar as well as any unfounded assumptions to a minimum, please. If you want this topic to stay that is.

Edited May 15, 2015 by Accolyte
spelling op

[BeaverProductions 441]

Elevators and printers, don't use windows 10, so I disagree...

Where in your first post do you mention you work in Win10?

 

Working in Windows 10 doesnt make you any more of an expert than myself who Project Manages Clinical Trials and has worked in developing databases.  Both partially relevant fields but completely different and not transferrable to DayZ development.

Edited May 15, 2015 by Beav

[agentneo 337]

WITHOUT PERFORMANCE YOU CANNOT ENJOY THE CONTENT!

Yes agreed this is the main problem. Functionality before form is important. Its not a rare view point- as mentioned a large number of gamers from my community and others also have the same feeling. The main reason we hardly ever play is due to the frame rate. The frame rate performance issues effect the gameplay directly. Its not just graphics- the bad frame rates means most of the gameplay elements eg. melee, shooting, moving around, avoiding zombies- all suffer from laggy input and delayed movement due to performance.

 

 

You can think that, but that doesn't make it so.

 

I'm not sure if i misunderstand that- but obviously because a few gamers think this way doesn't make it fact , agreed. It is just an opinion from quite a few of your games backers, the performance is still shocking for an alpha this far into development and i would still describe the game as 'unplayable' at these frame rates. Its just becoming a joke.

Edited May 15, 2015 by AgentNe0

[EpicTickles 6]

Beav, on 15 May 2015 - 2:04 PM, said:Beav, on 15 May 2015 - 2:04 PM, said:Beav, on 15 May 2015 - 2:04 PM, said:

Where in your first post do you mention you work in Win10?

 

Working in Windows 10 doesnt make you any more of an expert than myself who Project Manages Clinical Trials and has worked in developing databases.  Both partially relevant fields but completely different and not transferrable to DayZ development.

 

Hi Beav,

 

I used to work in development and now I do work as a PM in software industry. I am far from an expert as I like to think there is always something to learn. Developers do not take decisions in a development process, even tough they help a lot into making these...

Edited May 15, 2015 by EpicTickles

[EpicTickles 6]

SMoss, on 15 May 2015 - 1:57 PM, said:

I'll throw in my two cents as well on the subject. I'd say that for beta, the game should be feature complete - not "almost complete", there's a huge difference. During the beta phase of development, crashes, functionality loss, and performance issues for example may well still pop up. Bugs such as these would not at all be considered to be "minor bugs".

 

Additionally, please try and keep the topic thread factual when stating claims. I don't see the direct connection between Dean leaving as a result of DayZ having an Alpha label which in turn is a result of the supposed cover-up that is the decision of starting the project by using the RV engine. I really don't see the red thread in that claim, and unfortunately it has the potential to derail the entire discussion. Then again, I'm just one of those fan-kids, what do I know :)

 

In beta, if you have a game which is "feature complete", but performs poorly in means of crashes, memory leaks, low fps, or any type of blockers, that game should not be yet in beta. In a traditional beta, the game only needs polishing and minor bug fixing.

In DayZ's case, I think we can all agree that we are not talking about a traditional development project as public would normally NOT have access to the game in this phase, but in beta.

Unfortunately the truth is that without the "early access alpha" marketing term, we would have never had dayz, as I'm sure no company would pump money into an "unsure" product for 2 years.

 

There is also a big difference between fans and fan-kids/fan-boys as the second category is an internet slang used for those that ignore true facts no matter what in the benefit of their belief... Which truly are you?

[EpicTickles 6]

Accolyte, on 15 May 2015 - 1:59 PM, said:Accolyte, on 15 May 2015 - 1:59 PM, said:

 

 

 

No, he's completely right. 

Are these critical performance issues making the game unplayable? Unplayable as in the game doesn't start, becomes unresponsive or crashes, not 'zomg my fps be low'. No, ergo the issues are not critical from development standpoint.

 

If you ARE experiencing actual critical issues, as in the game doesn't start, becomes unresponsive or crashes, go to feedback.dayzgame.com. And they will help you out. I would know ;)

 

 

 

You can think that, but that doesn't make it so.

 

 

Let's keep the usage of words 'fankids' and similar as well as any unfounded assumptions to a minimum, please. If you want this topic to stay that is.

 

 

 

 

When I currently play the game, it crashes if I try to play for more than an hour and then disconnect or if I try to change any video setting from a higher option to a lower one.

I disagree with a game needing to run at 60fps or above, but stating that on a medium-top end computer it is normal for the product to run at 10-15 fps in certain conditions(e.g. cities) for a long period of time and not only spikes is a bit fictional...

 

Also, another really bothering issue is the desync. Every player wants to enjoy the game they are playing in a fair environment(no cheaters, no glitches that might give advantage to others). DayZ currently performs very poorly in this chapter, as on any server you would connect, unless it is running in "your backyard", you will always encounter periods of desync that give moving entities a clear advantage over stationary ones. Please don't tell me the solution is to move all the time... :)

 

In one of my streaming sessions, I will collect as many blockers and critical bugs as I can and will send them to feedback.dayzgame.com just to have a good contribution to this project, but I will also post their responses and steps taken into solving those in the forum and on the dayz social sites I am a member of, so that I have a positive contribution to the gaming community too. Seems fair?

Edited May 15, 2015 by EpicTickles

[Accolyte 1727]

As I said, crashes should go onto the feedback website where you'll be asked for crash dumps which will be looked into.

 

It is normal (expected) for a game to run poorly while it's still in development. Alpha or Beta. There's numerous warnings displayed about this before you can even load into the game.

 

I'm sure the devs would appreciate any new information you can give them on the feedback tracker.

[OrLoK 16182]

Hello there

 

I dont want to be seen as ganging up on anyone so i'll be brief.

 

DAYZ isnt Bohemia's first game that they've developed. They do have a proven track record (with associated hurdles on the way) so I do think that they are in a prime position to decide how, what and when in the development process.

 

Does it mean they are flawless? No, but they certainly do know what they are doing.

 

Rgds

 

LoK

[SMoss 2101]

In beta, if you have a game which is "feature complete", but performs poorly in means of crashes, memory leaks, low fps, or any type of blockers, that game should not be yet in beta. In a traditional beta, the game only needs polishing and minor bug fixing.

In DayZ's case, I think we can all agree that we are not talking about a traditional development project as public would normally NOT have access to the game in this phase, but in beta.

Unfortunately the truth is that without the "early access alpha" marketing term, we would have never had dayz, as I'm sure no company would pump money into an "unsure" product for 2 years.

 

There is also a big difference between fans and fan-kids/fan-boys as the second category is an internet slang used for those that ignore true facts no matter what in the benefit of their belief... Which truly are you?

No, that is not at all true. Having a build that is free of crashes/performance issues is not a prerequisite for it to be in Beta.

 

As to which category I actually fit into, I wouldn't know or care. It doesn't really matter in the context of this discussion.

[EpicTickles 6]

Hello there

 

I dont want to be seen as ganging up on anyone so i'll be brief.

 

DAYZ isnt Bohemia's first game that they've developed. They do have a proven track record (with associated hurdles on the way) so I do think that they are in a prime position to decide how, what and when in the development process.

 

Does it mean they are flawless? No, but they certainly do know what they are doing.

 

Rgds

 

LoK

 

I really hope with all my heart that you are right, pretty as much as I am hoping for the new renderer to have a huge positive effect on the game, for both the project's sake and the gamers that still hope.

 

All the best,

Epic

[EpicTickles 6]

SMoss, on 15 May 2015 - 5:17 PM, said:

No, that is not at all true. Having a build that is free of crashes/performance issues is not a prerequisite for it to be in Beta.

 

As to which category I actually fit into, I wouldn't know or care. It doesn't really matter in the context of this discussion.

 

I just hope that after an alpha of more than two years, there won't be a beta of 2 more... I'm pretty sure you KNOW better what is the REAL stage of this project and I hope you CARE about reaching a point of delivering the most awesome survival game ever made. Because in the end, no matter the money earned, if this game comes out as a joke(which I hope it will not happen), you will always be labeled by the community as a part of the joke! Of course, that, if you care...

 

All the best to you!

Edited May 15, 2015 by EpicTickles

[sachad 1016]

I just hope that after an alpha of more than two years, there won't be a beta of 2 more... I'm pretty sure you KNOW better what is the REAL stage of this project and I hope you CARE about reaching a point of delivering the most awesome survival game ever made. Because in the end, no matter the money earned, if this game comes out as a joke(which I hope it will not happen), you will always be labeled by the community as a part of the joke! Of course, that, if you care...

 

All the best to you!

 

Every time you say that this game has been in alpha for over two years, God kills a puppy.

 

It's been less than a year and a half, and they are pretty much on schedule for the projected development cycle. Have you ever actually read up on the developers' plans, or are you just parroting after all the whiners that came before you? 

 

And if two years of beta is what it takes to make this game great, then I'll gladly wait. In fact, I think the devs should purposely drag out the development a little longer, because that'll drive away even more undesirables from DayZ. Meanwhile I'll just enjoy the buggy mess that is the alpha. 

[Coheed_IV 381]

I just hope that after an alpha of more than two years, there won't be a beta of 2 more...

Why can nobody understand calendars? Early access was released DECEMBER 2013, that's not 2 years!

[SMoss 2101]

I just hope that after an alpha of more than two years, there won't be a beta of 2 more... I'm pretty sure you KNOW better what is the REAL stage of this project and I hope you CARE about reaching a point of delivering the most awesome survival game ever made. Because in the end, no matter the money earned, if this game comes out as a joke(which I hope it will not happen), you will always be labeled by the community as a part of the joke! Of course, that, if you care...

 

All the best to you!

Noone said I wouldn't care about that. Of course I do, why wouldn't I?

 

While in the process of development (Alpha release was december 2013 which means that we're not yet past a two year mark.); debunking wild allegations of conspiracy and whatnot based on thinly tied together speculations about the team and decisions for development, now THAT I also care about :)

[EpicTickles 6]

^{Sacha, this is a general discussion part of the forum, where everybody is free to express their opinions, being them good or bad.  I got some of the information I needed and will use that in the benefit of both the project and the survival games communities. If every developer would treat every bug as people's whining, where would we end up into?}

^{I always say something to the people on the game communities I am into: "if you have fun and it makes you happy, do whatever it takes!". So in your case, if you enjoy the game, keep playing it!}

[Coheed_IV 381]

I'm afraid that the Bohemia bosses might not be willing to put the required resources into DayZ for some reason, and that this won't change unless there is more pressure on them

This is not something to put too much thought in, look at their track record. Seriously look at it.

 

The whole performance issue is really tiring. Client performance I don't see as a issue or relevant, this will get done.

 

Server performance, that's a completely different topic, its very relevant. With each update it can handle more, but where it stops nobody knows. This will define the game, this is unknown. But, I believe they have a good handle on projecting what it can handle.

[Coheed_IV 381]

Why can nobody understand calendars? Early access was released DECEMBER 2013, that's not 2 years!

Honestly, I'm looking for a answer. Why? Anyone who says "more than two years" should explain this. Is it because 2013, and you don't remember a year ends with December?

Edited May 15, 2015 by Coheed_IV

[sachad 1016]

^{Sacha, this is a general discussion part of the forum, where everybody is free to express their opinions, being them good or bad.  I got some of the information I needed and will use that in the benefit of both the project and the survival games communities. If every developer would treat every bug as people's whining, where would we end up into?}

^{I always say something to the people on the game communities I am into: "if you have fun and it makes you happy, do whatever it takes!". So in your case, if you enjoy the game, keep playing it!}

 

Sure, you're entitled to your opinion, but yours is based on misconception, so you're wrong, no two ways about it. When you say alpha has been going for over two years and use that as a basis to criticize the development of the game, then I'm sorry to inform you that your opinion is not worth the virtual paper it's written on. 

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

EpicTickles - Hi!

 

I'm a proud "fanboy" for DayZ and take that as a compliment, thanks!

 

In fact, I'm a fanboy for anything exceptional and unusual in the whole wide world of media.

 

Monkeyballs? Daigasso? Chan Wook Park?

 

You know why?

 

I've been playing games since Atari 2600 and I'VE FUCKING SEEN AND PLAYED IT ALL! (Yeah we're allowed to curse here.)

 

Framerate? lolololololol

 

If you and "the community" you speak for so well don't play the game anymore and don't READ about the game, you have absolutely no place in the discussion about the game.

 

Ignorance is not a license to be a hyper critical ass, no more than being a fanboy is reason to merely insult you and not make a point.

 

I've followed THE NEWS AND DEVS on the development of this game since the beginning and played the mod about as much as you.

 

Old tech > old game > massively flexible > massively vulnerable > near obsolescence > parts of old game > old map > placeholder everything > madhatter says, "change places!" > something never seen or tried before on this scale > open Alpha > tears > profit

 

Let me know when you and "the community" come up with a game that's as fucking amazing, beautiful, and heart pounding, and offers massive potential, THANKS!

[EpicTickles 6]

EpicTickles - Hi!

 

I'm a proud "fanboy" for DayZ and take that as a compliment, thanks!

 

In fact, I'm a fanboy for anything exceptional and unusual in the whole wide world of media.

 

Monkeyballs? Daigasso? Chan Wook Park?

 

You know why?

 

I've been playing games since Atari 2600 and I'VE FUCKING SEEN AND PLAYED IT ALL! (Yeah we're allowed to curse here.)

 

Framerate? lolololololol

 

If you and "the community" you speak for so well don't play the game anymore and don't READ about the game, you have absolutely no place in the discussion about the game.

 

Ignorance is not a license to be a hyper critical ass, no more than being a fanboy is reason to merely insult you and not make a point.

 

I've followed THE NEWS AND DEVS on the development of this game since the beginning and played the mod about as much as you.

 

Old tech > old game > massively flexible > massively vulnerable > near obsolescence > parts of old game > old map > placeholder everything > madhatter says, "change places!" > something never seen or tried before on this scale > open Alpha > tears > profit

 

Let me know when you and "the community" come up with a game that's as fucking amazing, beautiful, and heart pounding, and offers massive potential, THANKS!

 

 

Honestly, I'm looking for a answer. Why? Anyone who says "more than two years" should explain this. Is it because 2013, and you don't remember a year ends with December?

 

If you are curious about finding out something new, it's called basic business applied psychology.

Let me give you an example how this is done: you have a discussion with a potential buyer for a product but you feel that the customer might try to find excuses for not paying you for what you are about to deliver. While you present all the powerful sides of your product, you slip between the lines minor downsides of it.

If you see that the customer is more interested in "shinning" the small bad parts of your product, rather than actually paying attention and asking more questions about the powerful parts that would normally impact his business, you are most of the times dealing with a person that is looking for excuses not to pay you the full worth of your product or at all!

On the internet, the most obvious people that I can bring you out are the so called "grammar nazies". They are the ones that would rather post 10 pages of you placing a comma wrong, rather than a single post on the topic.

 

Now go back on this page and look how many fell for it... Draw your own conclusions...

Edited May 15, 2015 by EpicTickles