I hate DayZ but I love it so much...

[EpicTickles 6]

Hi DayZ community!

Even tough I am a very old dayz fan, I just decided now to make an account on the forums, because I feel like the future is very uncertain for my favorite game.

I would like to start by saying that I've played dayz mod for over 2000hours and when DayzSA came out, I was more than excited to buy it.

I currently have about 1000hours of DayZ and I've seen this game in better or worse times.

In real life, I work in software development for one of the biggest companies in the world and even tough I worked on many projects so far, I don't understand where DayZ is going project wise.

Why are you guys concentrating on adding new content in game, while the public is screaming for performance issues?

The game as it is right now, has more than enough content to play around with, as a player, for hours and hours.

Is there any plan in the future for addressing: 1. desync issues 2. fps issues?

I am more than 100% sure that if you guys would address these 2 major issues currently in the game, content would not even be in the minds of many players.

 

One other thing that I've been having lots of problems with, gameplay wise, is body collision.

Since fighting a zombie with a melee weapon is not really a viable option anymore, body collision can be a very annoying factor that will have the final word in your survival, or just getting trapped in a place.

Don't you think disabling this until finding a solution or forever would be a better decision?

 

The last thing I would want to put on the table is the zeds animations.

In the past, I really loved the fact that zed hits were well synced with the animations.

Right now, I see an animation and get hit 3 times.

Will this be fixed?

 

No matter what, I still love this game, but guys, whoever the project manager is for this, I think he/she should rethink a bit his/her priorities, as dayz is loosing public hard lately and this also means less $$ for you guys.

I want to enjoy the game again and I have faith that you will make the right decisions in the future!

[SaveMeJebus 164]

I know this will come off as rude but I can think of no other way to say it ...  If you had paid any attention at all to dev blogs and the like during your 1000 hours of playtime you would know that A. there are seperate teams working on new content and performance/coding side  B. the body collision issue is something that will be addressed as the new renderer is phased in C. animation issues also addressed with new renderer.  I'm sorry to come off this way just everything you have taken the time to post here about has been beaten to death as a topic and answered repeatedly.

 

** and why would you think performance isn't on their mind at all? From what I have read others posting the new build on experimental does add some much needed fps and I'm sure this is something that is constantly worked on where viable but optimization at this point in development is a time waster

Edited May 13, 2015 by SaveMeJebus

[Kirtd0g 8]

I know this will come off as rude but I can think of no other way to say it ...  If you had paid any attention at all to dev blogs and the like during your 1000 hours of playtime you would know that A. there are seperate teams working on new content and performance/coding side  B. the body collision issue is something that will be addressed as the new renderer is phased in C. animation issues also addressed with new renderer.  I'm sorry to come off this way just everything you have taken the time to post here about has been beaten to death as a topic and answered repeatedly.

 

** and why would you think performance isn't on their mind at all? From what I have read others posting the new build on experimental does add some much needed fps and I'm sure this is something that is constantly worked on where viable but optimization at this point in development is a time waster

 

This. Alpha is there to implement all of these features and see how they work together, once everything has been added they can optimize everything in one go instead of doing it on a feature by feature basis only for optimization it to go tits up when the next one gets implemented. 

[EpicTickles 6]

I know this will come off as rude but I can think of no other way to say it ...  If you had paid any attention at all to dev blogs and the like during your 1000 hours of playtime you would know that A. there are seperate teams working on new content and performance/coding side  B. the body collision issue is something that will be addressed as the new renderer is phased in C. animation issues also addressed with new renderer.  I'm sorry to come off this way just everything you have taken the time to post here about has been beaten to death as a topic and answered repeatedly.

 

** and why would you think performance isn't on their mind at all? From what I have read others posting the new build on experimental does add some much needed fps and I'm sure this is something that is constantly worked on where viable but optimization at this point in development is a time waster

 

First of all I would really like to thank you for taking that time to explain a few things to me.

Don't worry, in my job, criticism is something to be taken constructive and not personal.

About paying attention to the blogs, I haven't payed nearly enough attention to know a few things that you brought up and I thank you for that.

I consider DayZ as being a very unusual project in the gaming world due to the fact that development is already stretched over a few years and the content/performance factor must be kept balanced, which they did... for a while.

The problem is that with the last patches, it really felt like the game got trashed even if I'm sure it's not the case.

I am really hoping for a bit more in the following patches.

 

Are there any plans for the desync? I fail at finding anything concrete about this.

The desync is by far the most annoying factor for me even tough I have an extremely powerful internet connection.

[EpicTickles 6]

This. Alpha is there to implement all of these features and see how they work together, once everything has been added they can optimize everything in one go instead of doing it on a feature by feature basis only for optimization it to go tits up when the next one gets implemented. 

I don't deny it's an alpha, but it's more of a "marketing alpha" in the case of DayZ. Optimizing EVERYTHING in one go will never ever happen in the software industry as it's impossible. Thanks for your opinion tough!

[BeefBacon 1185]

I don't deny it's an alpha, but it's more of a "marketing alpha" in the case of DayZ. Optimizing EVERYTHING in one go will never ever happen in the software industry as it's impossible. Thanks for your opinion tough!

 

I think the point he was making is that DayZ will go through optimisation passes down the line rather than having it constantly optimised as development progresses. My understanding is that the performance issues are mostly to do with the renderer - invisible faces being drawn and such. Once the new renderer (among other things) is in then it might be possibe, and feasible, to address performance.

 

But honestly I find your post to be benign. "This game feature used to work but now it's fixed, will this ever change?" No. Never. Any and all gameplay features are final at this point. "Will fps and desync issues ever be addressed?" The DayZ team has repeatedly stated that they want everyone to play at max 25fps, and for servers to have 500+ ping. See what I'm getting at? Asking "the game is unfinished. Do the devs have plans to finish the game?" is pretty silly.

 

Have a browse through the status reports. I think they release them every week. They're quite informative. As DayZ is developed features will break unintentionally and things will change. This happens with all games, but we don't get as much insight into other games. I've no doubt that Half-Life 3 is a disgusting, buggy mess at this point but nobody knows because they don't have people participating in an open alpha - and nobody has access to the pocket dimension created by Gabe Newell where everything comes in threes, so that contributes too.

[derLoko 30]

Asking "the game is unfinished. Do the devs have plans to finish the game?" is pretty silly.

 

Well, it depends entirely on how much time & money is left and what is considered "finished"... It looks like there are currently no plans to fix lighting, for example.

Edited May 13, 2015 by derLoko

[BeefBacon 1185]

Well, it depends entirely on how much time & money is left and what is considered "finished"... It looks like there are currently no plans to fix lighting, for example.

 

'Fix lighting' in what respect? Light is sometimes cast inside of buildings but, I suspect, that'll be addressed by the renderer and changes to occlusion and optimisation. I also suspect that dynamic shadows from torches and fireplaces will eventually make an appearance.

 

But asking about, say, lighting or some advanced feature like parallax or full reflective textures is completely different to asking about something like fps or desync. Of course desync and fps will at least be addressed because they're core aspects of every game. 

 

I do see your point, however, but I don't think it's really applicable in this instance.

[Zboub le météor 250]

when the SA came out, there was two options :

- mimic the mod with better graphics and less bugs (that was the first idea i think)

- make a whole new game, with other mechanism, more content, more possibilities, new engine

 

they first started with the first option, and if i remember correctly, the goal was to reach 300 000 sales. they sold at least 10x more than their original goal a few month later, making possible the N°2 option. they put their ball on the table (poetic indeed) and choosed to be bold and try to take this project to another level.

 

so here we are, they added a big amount of content, new mechanism and it is still a long way to go. in the following month, they will add new tech, animations etc... things will break, and break hard, this is a statement from brian hicks (biran for those wo read status reports :D ). player base will continue to ocillate, i don't care, i hope they don't care either, i want the best game possible in that time frame.

 

optimisation will come last eventually, new tech will make possible optimisations, the game edges will be smoothed, polished and we should see an increase in FPS, less desynch (i'm not sure they can really get rid of it), less bugs... and everybody will be happy, mod will come out... base buildings, elektro mayhem cs:go style, ultra hardcore with no canned food and freezing blizzard... whe just have to wait a year or two, and take a break when we are bored or pissed of by bugs/crashes/cheats/exploits.

 

bye

Edited May 13, 2015 by Zboub le météor

[derLoko 30]

optimisation will come last eventually, new tech will make possible optimisations, the game edges will be smoothed, polished and we should see an increase in FPS, less desynch (i'm not sure they can really get rid of it), less bugs... and everybody will be happy

 

I'd love to hear an experienced deloper's opinion on it - but I'd say there is NO WAY DayZ will be in a state that can be called "beta" (read: feature/content complete, freeze till release) in 6 months, or will be ready for a release worthy of an AAA game in 12 months. Let alone make "everybody happy".

 

For me, that's just mind-boggling. It can only mean that:

 

1) The plan is to rush DayZ into beta & release despite being not nearly ready for it.

2) Or the devs already plan to delay beta & release anyway, but aren't telling us. Yay.

3) Or they are indeed completely unaware that they won't be able to make it.

4) Or the miracle patch comes, the game is suddenly finished and all the problems are solved, and I'm all wrong.

 

And I'd love to be proved wrong - but I'm honestly not seeing it.

Edited May 13, 2015 by derLoko

[blackberrygoo 1416]

I'd love to hear an experienced deloper's opinion on it - but I'd say there is NO WAY DayZ will be in a state that can be called "beta" (read: feature/content complete, freeze till release) in 6 months, or will be ready for a release worthy of an AAA game in 12 months. Let alone make "everybody happy".

For me, that's just mind-boggling. It can only mean that:

1) The plan is to rush DayZ into beta & release despite being not nearly ready for it.

2) Or the devs already plan to delay beta & release anyway, but aren't telling us. Yay.

3) Or they are indeed completely unaware that they won't be able to make it.

4) Or the miracle patch comes, the game is suddenly finished and all the problems are solved, and I'm all wrong.

And I'd love to be proved wrong - but I'm honestly not seeing it.

You're not seeing it cuz your eyes are closed bro =P ... But I can easily see this game in beta in 6 months , I'm hoping right around October- Halloween - we get some massive updates of features like base building and barricading so we can just smash bugs for the next 8 months after that and have a pretty damn good better-than-AAA title only after about 14 more months ! Hang in there naysayers , or take a break and come back in 6 months there will be plenty of changes ...

[EpicTickles 6]

...not to mention that hackers are back :(

[surf_polar 110]

You work for 'one of the biggest software companies' and yet do not know of the industry standard of development? Alpha gets added content and feautures, im beta the performance and bugs get taken care of.

[BeaverProductions 441]

You work for 'one of the biggest software companies' and yet do not know of the industry standard of development? Alpha gets added content and feautures, im beta the performance and bugs get taken care of.

Coding software for elevators/lifts or printer drivers does not make anyone an expert on game development :)

[EpicTickles 6]

surf_polar, on 14 May 2015 - 07:18 AM, said:surf_polar, on 14 May 2015 - 07:18 AM, said:surf_polar, on 14 May 2015 - 07:18 AM, said:

You work for 'one of the biggest software companies' and yet do not know of the industry standard of development? Alpha gets added content and feautures, im beta the performance and bugs get taken care of.

 

You are partially right. In beta, the game is almost complete, the development team only dealing with the minor bugs remaining.

The performance issues present currently in dayz are critical and are definitely not to be left for beta in a traditional project.

What most of you don't see is that the "alpha" term is used in this situation as a cover-up for the extremely poor decision of relying on arma 2 engine for such a complex game.

 

Why do you think Dean left? :)))

 

But I think I am explaining things to fan-kids, so I will stop here... You'll learn when you grow, what I mean

Edited May 14, 2015 by EpicTickles

[EpicTickles 6]

Coding software for elevators/lifts or printer drivers does not make anyone an expert on game development :)

 

Elevators and printers, don't use windows 10, so I disagree...

[doctorbadsign 645]

They're adding content first because there is no point optimizing everything or fixing everything until all the content us in. Every thing added could add bugs so there is no point going after all of them until the majority of content and mechanics are in place.

Basically what I'm saying is: Alpha

Edited May 14, 2015 by DoctorBadSign

[EpicTickles 6]

I just hope, in the beta release, the game will be playable. Until then, there are worst alternatives which perform better so for now I will go with performance > content. DayZ is a game too great not to be optimized correctly in the future.

[Grimey Rick 3417]

I love how every second person ranting about DayZ is a fucking software developer. It makes me lol.

[doctorbadsign 645]

I just hope, in the beta release, the game will be playable. Until then, there are worst alternatives which perform better so for now I will go with performance > content. DayZ is a game too great not to be optimized correctly in the future.

I'm not sure what you mean. It would be so much more work for the devs to drop adding content and mechanics optimize the performance, and then break it again by adding content and mechanics that introduce bugs and performance issues.

It doesn't matter what you want really, content before optimization is the logical way to develop the game. If you're not a fan of that, don't play until its done.

Edited May 14, 2015 by DoctorBadSign

[surf_polar 110]

You are partially right. In beta, the game is almost complete, the development team only dealing with the minor bugs remaining.

The performance issues present currently in dayz are critical and are definitely not to be left for beta in a traditional project.

What most of you don't see is that the "alpha" term is used in this situation as a cover-up for the extremely poor decision of relying on arma 2 engine for such a complex game.

Why do you think Dean left? :)))

But I think I am explaining things to fan-kids, so I will stop here... You'll learn when you grow, what I mean

'Someone called me out on my bullshit, let's call him names/immature'

Classy move!

[8bit_Survivor 93]

Much of the desync is caused by server side performance issues as stated by Hicks I believe. New renderer should help a bit though as will moving the scripting over to be hard coded into the engine itself.

[agentneo 337]

I agree 100% with the OP and my friends and community all feel the same.
Let's actually talk honestly about the issues instead of brushing them under the carpet with the 'alpha' 'its been worked on' 'read the blogs' 'soon' and other BS answers. Lets talk about the performance.

 

performance is the number 1 issue, along with the terrible melee collision as you described.

I just think this far into alpha, and any modern game on PC, alpha or not, should be running at minimum 60 fps. It really isn't too much to demand in this day and age with the technology available.

Look at any number of other survival games out there, hate to say it because DAY Z Is my favourite game over all, and i always always defend it. However, So many other games with much less budget, smaller dev teams, and just as challenging engines are running at a smooth 60fps even in early alpha.

A few examples from the top of my head are The Forest, H1z1, 7 Days To Die, and others i dont care to mention. All running at 60fps with arguably as much visual fidelity.

How long are we going to keep hoping the FPS will ever be fixed, and do we still believe it is even possible.????

Even Arma 3, miles ahead in dev. terms, still doesn't run completely smooth, its generally 60fps, but often drops to 40-60 in towns or on populated servers and most people would describe it as laggy and clunky online.

 

To summarise im loosing the faith. Recent blogs have no concrete answers, they seemed to say ' we hope' to get the game running smooth eventually.

The renderer is described as been out between '3 and 6 months' . this time last year we heard a similar story about performance.

Edited May 14, 2015 by AgentNe0

[8bit_Survivor 93]

Why do you think Dean left? :)))

Dean was always planning on leaving. He actually stayed longer than anticipated...knowledge is power!

[derLoko 30]

I'm not sure what you mean. It would be so much more work for the devs to drop adding content and mechanics optimize the performance, and then break it again by adding content and mechanics that introduce bugs and performance issues.

 

Well, this is certainly true in many cases. Of course, it makes no sense to put too much effort into fixing a UI that is essentialy a placeholder.

 

However, i often read general claims like "Bug fixing is for beta", and that simply isn't true. If you're interested:

 

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000043.html (see point 5 "do you fix bugs")

http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/198696/keeping-agile-with-zero-bug-defect-policy

 

Beta is meant for polish - doing some large-scale testing to find and fix some remaining bugs, squeeze out 10% more performance, or make some minor changes based on user feedback. The game/software is NOT supposed to be severly bugged and unplayable at the beginning of beta, or even during alpha. Piling broken features on top of broken features is generally a really bad idea. At some point, the code will be such a mess that it becomes really difficult to fix bugs or even identify what exactly the problem is.

 

If you're not a fan of that, don't play until its done.

 

Personally, my concern is simply that DayZ won't be "done" anytime soon, or at all. I'm afraid that the Bohemia bosses might not be willing to put the required resources into DayZ for some reason, and that this won't change unless there is more pressure on them. And considering that DayZ earned them almost 100 million $ already, there should be more than enough money to put into the game.

Edited May 14, 2015 by derLoko